Big 12 and ACC are fumbling with their expansion apprehensiveness? They will become 2nd class BBall citizens as well if they continue.

[freescooter]

Nelson, chill out man. You started the crazy talk about a Big East ACC merger. I just reacted to that and asked why they wouldn’t just cherry pick the best programs. You have never answered that question. If you think there is an advantage for adding the bottom dwellers or overlapping markets (us & BC cover New England, so why PC for example)I’d like to hear it. Instead you get mad and accuse people of wanting to join the AAC. Just weird.

 

[NIT88]

I initially read "AD" as Athletic Director. I was thinking "wow, that's a disturbing take."

I thought that too…then I put down my phone as I was about to call 911.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson, chill out man. You started the crazy talk about a Big East ACC merger. I just reacted to that and asked why they wouldn’t just cherry pick the best programs. You have never answered that question. If you think there is an advantage for adding the bottom dwellers or overlapping markets (us & BC cover New England, so why PC for example)I’d like to hear it. Instead you get mad and accuse people of wanting to join the AAC. Just weird.

It is not crazy talk. I have trouble coming up with a rationale for either the ACC or Big 12 to add just one school. The ACC added 3 schools and the Big 12 added 4 schools last year, and both decisions were opportunistic and funded by ESPN. I don't think either set of additions really moved the needle for either league strategically, and were probably defensive. The ACC move in particular was not strategic at all, and was just a small revenue grab to sprinkle among disgruntled members.

Both leagues would like more of a New York presence, and both leagues are also at risk of continuing to get picked off by the P2 conferences. But it does not feel like a single school will change the trajectory for either league, and if one school does not justify a move right now, they won't do it. Both leagues may look to UConn to backfill losses to the P2, but at that point, would either league be an upgrade from the Big East?

One of the things the weak opening season of the CFP shows is that there is no way to replicate the NCAA Tournament in football. The NCAA Tournament is a unique event, and has become even more valuable without an alternative. This makes basketball more valuable. Given that all conference additions now have extended buy-ins and unequal revenue splits, there would be no expectation of splitting revenue equally with a Big East merger with any league. A merged league would effectively just be a negotiating play with streaming and TV to get a better deal, in addition to giving each league a better negotiating position if the P2 continues to act anti-competitively. Within the leagues, revenue would be negotiated separately.

I think several higher ups, including Yormark, thought that the CFP may be a bit of a dud, which is why they are interested in basketball as an area of growth.

This is why I think a merger with the Big East is not crazy. A merger between the Big 12 and ACC is also not crazy, and that would likely lock UConn out forever. So let's hope that the Big East is the league merged.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

It is not crazy talk. I have trouble coming up with a rationale for either the ACC or Big 12 to add just one school. The ACC added 3 schools and the Big 12 added 4 schools last year, and both decisions were opportunistic and funded by ESPN. I don't think either set of additions really moved the needle for either league strategically, and were probably defensive. The ACC move in particular was not strategic at all, and was just a small revenue grab to sprinkle among disgruntled members.

Both leagues would like more of a New York presence, and both leagues are also at risk of continuing to get picked off by the P2 conferences. But it does not feel like a single school will change the trajectory for either league, and if one school does not justify a move right now, they won't do it. Both leagues may look to UConn to backfill losses to the P2, but at that point, would either league be an upgrade from the Big East?

One of the things the weak opening season of the CFP shows is that there is no way to replicate the NCAA Tournament in football. The NCAA Tournament is a unique event, and has become even more valuable without an alternative. This makes basketball more valuable. Given that all conference additions now have extended buy-ins and unequal revenue splits, there would be no expectation of splitting revenue equally with a Big East merger with any league. A merged league would effectively just be a negotiating play with streaming and TV to get a better deal, in addition to giving each league a better negotiating position if the P2 continues to act anti-competitively. Within the leagues, revenue would be negotiated separately.

I think several higher ups, including Yormark, thought that the CFP may be a bit of a dud, which is why they are interested in basketball as an area of growth.

This is why I think a merger with the Big East is not crazy. A merger between the Big 12 and ACC is also not crazy, and that would likely lock UConn out forever. So let's hope that the Big East is the league merged.

I’ll give you this, if it ever did happen, the basketball only schools would probably get less than half to about a third the distribution of what the football/basketball schools would get. What that means for UConn is a very good payday. The other issue that I think would ultimately kill the whole thing is the lack of quality educational opportunities the Big East schools besides UConn would bring to the table.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I’ll give you this, if it ever did happen, the basketball only schools would probably get less than half to about a third the distribution of what the football/basketball schools would get. What that means for UConn is a very good payday. The other issue that I think would ultimately kill the whole thing is the lack of quality educational opportunities the Big East schools besides UConn would bring to the table.

Lack of educational opportunities compared to who? The Big 12 schools? Really?

The last two deals that were disclosed for each league were:

ACC: SMU - 9 years of no revenue from the conference TV contract. ACC also required SMU to raise over $100 million to adequately fund the athletic department over that period.

Big 12: UConn - basketball only now, with an earn-in, and the Big 12 would consider adding UConn football in 2032. The Big 12 turned that option down.

As of now, there is no conference pot of gold likely from either the ACC or the Big 12 if they were to take UConn.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Lack of educational opportunities compared to who? The Big 12 schools? Really?

The last two deals that were disclosed for each league were:

ACC: SMU - 9 years of no revenue from the conference TV contract. ACC also required SMU to raise over $100 million to adequately fund the athletic department over that period.

Big 12: UConn - basketball only now, with an earn-in, and the Big 12 would consider adding UConn football in 2032. The Big 12 turned that option down.

As of now, there is no conference pot of gold likely from either the ACC or the Big 12 if they were to take UConn.

Was not referring to the Big 12 in that post, only the ACC.

 

[businesslawyer]

I do wonder if the Big East fears the writing on the wall enough to go back into a hybrid football/basketball conference again if an ACC/BE merger were explored. Strategically, content, and media-wise, it could be a great product, but not sure how you fairly sell and distribute the media deal and keep the basketball only schools happy. As others have said, selling/negotiating football and basketball separately wouldn't work. There would have to be something in the conference merger agreement that guaranteed the basketball only schools a certain piece of the pie regardless of the media deal. I just don't see the football first schools agreeing to something like that.

Disagree. The biggest problem is the catholic basketball schools don't want to have their future in the hands of schools with very different resources and goals. If it were just financial, it would be easy. If you market the TV rights to hoops and pigskin together to maximize revenue, you just agree on an appraiser to divide that amount up in accordance with the relative fair market values of both the football tv rights and the basketball tv rights in stand alone transactions.

 

[businesslawyer]

You’re something. You say the ACC ought to merge with the Big East? I ask why when they could cherry pick the schools that add value rather than take the whole thing, mainly because the Big East has a few valuable properties but also a bunch of schools that wouldn’t add anything to the ACC. And I never said anything about the SEC. Not a thing. My gut is the SEC will eventually be #2 to the Big 10 for lots of reasons,so that would be my magic wand place, but in any case UConn isn’t going there. We might go to the ACC or the B12. In my view either would be preferable to the current situation. And you seem to have this idea that the ACC needs to add the likes of Seton Hall, DePaul and Butler to survive. I am skeptical that the ACC adds basketball only schools at all. If they do, I told you who I think it would be and why. I admit my analysis could be wrong. Explain to me the benefit of adding 11 new members, 10 of whom don’t play football at the FBS level, when you can add 4-5 who bring the most upside? Plus you have the side benefit of ending once and for all the completion from the New Big East for eyeballs and players.

And for what it’s worth, I don’t hate the Big East. I hate that UConn is stuck there with a bunch of suitcase colleges who either used to be or never were major players. Without UConn it is a nice regional league. High mid-major. We are a major national university with 3 decades of success in multiple sports. Only Georgetown is at our level, actually above our level academically, and they don’t much care about athletic success at this point. If the Ivy League ever called ( it won’t) they’d leave in the middle of a game if that was the requirement. As for the rest, maybe Villanova bounces back, maybe they go the way of Georgetown. The rest are nothing special.

Without UConn, it would be wrong to call the Big East a "high mid-major." In the modern era of college hoops -- the roughly 50 years since N.C. State beat UCLA in double OT in the national semifinals -- without UConn, 'Nova, Georgetown and Marquette have won national championships and in addition to them Providence, DePaul, St. Johns, Butler and Seton Hall have been to the Final Four. So if you can name another "mid-major" with comparable numbers -- anywhere near 30% of its teams having won a championship and 80% of its teams (everyone but X and Creighton) having been to a Final Four, please do so. I will wait for your answer. Is it o.k. if I don't hold my breath?

Even without UConn the Big East is a power conference in hoops. It's not what it was, and you can argue its trend line is falling and not rising, but you'd still be comparing it to the P-4, not true "mid majors."

 

[UConnDan97]

Without UConn, it would be wrong to call the Big East a "high mid-major." In the modern era of college hoops -- the roughly 50 years since N.C. State beat UCLA in double OT in the national semifinals -- without UConn, 'Nova, Georgetown and Marquette have won national championships and in addition to them Providence, DePaul, St. Johns, Butler and Seton Hall have been to the Final Four. So if you can name another "mid-major" with comparable numbers -- anywhere near 30% of its teams having won a championship and 80% of its teams (everyone but X and Creighton) having been to a Final Four, please do so. I will wait for your answer. Is it o.k. if I don't hold my breath?

Even without UConn the Big East is a power conference in hoops. It's not what it was, and you can argue its trend line is falling and not rising, but you'd still be comparing it to the P-4, not true "mid majors."

Let's be fair. A lot of the stuff you're mentioning is long gone. Is PJ Carlesimo back in Jersey? Are we gonna see Chris Mullin in NYC or Mark Aguirre in Chicago?? I know I didn't see Eric Murdock or God Shamgod last night against the Friars.

The current conference members have a real nice collective history, but we're talking about the current state of the Big East. And without UConn, it is not a stretch to refer to the Big East as a "high mid major", which presumably means just outside the power conferences. Our current conference RPI is 0.559 (4th best) WITH UConn. To put this in perspective, the Mountain West is currently at 0.529 (6th best) , with a current top team of Utah State...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Let's be fair. A lot of the stuff you're mentioning is long gone. Is PJ Carlesimo back in Jersey? Are we gonna see Chris Mullin in NYC or Mark Aguirre in Chicago?? I know I didn't see Eric Murdock or God Shamgod last night against the Friars.

The current conference members have a real nice collective history, but we're talking about the current state of the Big East. And without UConn, it is not a stretch to refer to the Big East as a "high mid major", which presumably means just outside the power conferences. Our current conference RPI is 0.559 (4th best) WITH UConn. To put this in perspective, the Mountain West is currently at 0.529 (6th best) , with a current top team of Utah State...

Let’s be fair. Villanova has 2 championships in the last 10 years and the Big East was the 2nd best league last year by any measure, so the league has been pretty good. The Big East’s down year this year is still light years ahead of the ACC this year.

Also, UConn is #50 in RPI, so it is not like we are carrying the league to glory. Also, the Ivy League, at .4868 in RPI, is the #13 league in RPI, and is roughly the same gap from the MWC as the MWC has with the Big East. So if you are arguing that the MWC is equivalent to the Big East, then you must think the Ivy League is also equivalent to the Big East.

Finally, the Big East saved UConn by bringing us back. We would be in mid-major hell right now if we were still in the AAC, and UConn would not have won the last two championships. There is no way any of that happens out of the AAC.

 

[John]

Let’s be fair. Villanova has 2 championships in the last 10 years and the Big East was the 2nd best league last year by any measure, so the league has been pretty good. The Big East’s down year this year is still light years ahead of the ACC this year.

Also, UConn is #50 in RPI, so it is not like we are carrying the league to glory. Also, the Ivy League, at .4868 in RPI, is the #13 league in RPI, and is roughly the same gap from the MWC as the MWC has with the Big East. So if you are arguing that the MWC is equivalent to the Big East, then you must think the Ivy League is also equivalent to the Big East.

Finally, the Big East saved UConn by bringing us back. We would be in mid-major hell right now if we were still in the AAC, and UConn would not have won the last two championships. There is no way any of that happens out of the AAC.

There you go with your AAC fixation again.

 

[freescooter]

Let's be fair. A lot of the stuff you're mentioning is long gone. Is PJ Carlesimo back in Jersey? Are we gonna see Chris Mullin in NYC or Mark Aguirre in Chicago?? I know I didn't see Eric Murdock or God Shamgod last night against the Friars.

The current conference members have a real nice collective history, but we're talking about the current state of the Big East. And without UConn, it is not a stretch to refer to the Big East as a "high mid major", which presumably means just outside the power conferences. Our current conference RPI is 0.559 (4th best) WITH UConn. To put this in perspective, the Mountain West is currently at 0.529 (6th best) , with a current top team of Utah State...

For a bit of perspective, biz, Patrick Ewing is 62, Mark Aquire 65 and Butch Lee is 68. Those were the stars when Georgetown, and Marquette won it all and De Paul got to the Final Four. Butler hasn’t been to the tournament in 6 years and hasn’t gotten past the first weekend in 7. A great coach took them on a magical run for a few years. Oh, and Ernie D is 73.

These successes were a long time ago.

 

[UConnDan97]

Let’s be fair. Villanova has 2 championships in the last 10 years and the Big East was the 2nd best league last year by any measure, so the league has been pretty good. The Big East’s down year this year is still light years ahead of the ACC this year.

Also, UConn is #50 in RPI, so it is not like we are carrying the league to glory. Also, the Ivy League, at .4868 in RPI, is the #13 league in RPI, and is roughly the same gap from the MWC as the MWC has with the Big East. So if you are arguing that the MWC is equivalent to the Big East, then you must think the Ivy League is also equivalent to the Big East.

Finally, the Big East saved UConn by bringing us back. We would be in mid-major hell right now if we were still in the AAC, and UConn would not have won the last two championships. There is no way any of that happens out of the AAC.

Let's be fair. You're calling it a single "down year" this year, but remind me how many teams the Big East got into the tourney last year? It was a rhetorical question, because the answer is 3.

To put that in perspective, the Mountain West got 6 teams in. Hell, even they American which you love to make fun of got 2 teams in (which is the same amount of "non-UConn" teams the Big East got).

I was an early supporter of leaving the AAC for the Big East and football independence, because I knew that it was the key to reviving all our programs. But let's not act like the Big East now is the Big East of yesteryear. It's a good conference. But it ain't battling for the best anytime soon unless the other schools up their game...

 

[uconn_jack]

Disagree. The biggest problem is the catholic basketball schools don't want to have their future in the hands of schools with very different resources and goals. If it were just financial, it would be easy. If you market the TV rights to hoops and pigskin together to maximize revenue, you just agree on an appraiser to divide that amount up in accordance with the relative fair market values of both the football tv rights and the basketball tv rights in stand alone transactions.

If that's the Catholic schools biggest fear, then they have their heads in the sand. Ten years ago, I could understand it, but with the direction that conference realignment and college football is going (dragging basketball with it), their best bet is probably getting hitched with a P4 football conference like the ACC. Of course that won't matter if the BIG and SEC take their balls and go it alone.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I will admit I never anticipated the sheer dominance of the SEC in basketball this season. I hope this is a statistical outlier, because if it isn’t, then UConn, and every school outside the SEC, has already lost the conference realignment battle.

If UConn was going to try to beg its way into one league, it should go to the SEC. It doesn’t need us for basketball, but it could use us. UConn’s football program is irrelevant to the SEC, but the SEC also doesn’t need it to be good or bad because the SEC has football covered already. More importantly, the SEC has no northern presence, and it would get more value from UConn’s proximity to New York than any other league. And the ACC has locked up every member through 2036 and Rutgers and Penn State are not leaving the Big 10. There is no one else to add in the northeast.

I think the SEC is as likely to consider UConn as a one off addition as anyone.

 

[UConnDan97]

I will admit I never anticipated the sheer dominance of the SEC in basketball this season. I hope this is a statistical outlier, because if it isn’t, then UConn, and every school outside the SEC, has already lost the conference realignment battle.

If UConn was going to try to beg its way into one league, it should go to the SEC. It doesn’t need us for basketball, but it could use us. UConn’s football program is irrelevant to the SEC, but the SEC also doesn’t need it to be good or bad because the SEC has football covered already. More importantly, the SEC has no northern presence, and it would get more value from UConn’s proximity to New York than any other league. And the ACC has locked up every member through 2036 and Rutgers and Penn State are not leaving the Big 10. There is no one else to add in the northeast.

I think the SEC is as likely to consider UConn as a one off addition as anyone.

This entire post about the SEC and UConn as a northern presence tells me one of two things: you either got up too early this morning, or you never went to bed...

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I will admit I never anticipated the sheer dominance of the SEC in basketball this season. I hope this is a statistical outlier, because if it isn’t, then UConn, and every school outside the SEC, has already lost the conference realignment battle.

If UConn was going to try to beg its way into one league, it should go to the SEC. It doesn’t need us for basketball, but it could use us. UConn’s football program is irrelevant to the SEC, but the SEC also doesn’t need it to be good or bad because the SEC has football covered already. More importantly, the SEC has no northern presence, and it would get more value from UConn’s proximity to New York than any other league. And the ACC has locked up every member through 2036 and Rutgers and Penn State are not leaving the Big 10. There is no one else to add in the northeast.

I think the SEC is as likely to consider UConn as a one off addition as anyone.

So, you're saying they don't need us for football nor basketball but they need us. ??????

The SEC thinks that the state of North Carolina is in the north. They think UConn is the North pole.

Not gonna happen.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This entire post about the SEC and UConn as a northern presence tells me one of two things: you either got up too early this morning, or you never went to bed...

So, you're saying they don't need us for football nor basketball but they need us. ??????

The SEC thinks that the state of North Carolina is in the north. They think UConn is the North pole.

Not gonna happen.

So you think UConn is stuck in the Big East?

 

[Kolumbo]

at least there is some chatter. the posters are still only focused on football though.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-1004092.html

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

So you think UConn is stuck in the Big East?

No.

 

[UConnDan97]

So you think UConn is stuck in the Big East?

I think the fact that you even typed the words "UConn" and "SEC" in the same opinion piece means that I should never discuss conference realignment with you again...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think the fact that you even typed the words "UConn" and "SEC" in the same opinion piece means that I should never discuss conference realignment with you again...

You got to the ad hominem attack pretty quickly.

You can't go a day without trashing the Big East, but you also don't think UConn should be creative in looking for a new home. Waiting by the phone for the ACC to call has not worked out great so far, but it sounds like you are committed to that plan.

 

[KryHavok]

at least there is some chatter. the posters are still only focused on football though.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-1004092.html

OMG, that link had a golden comment:

Then you have this putz/UCF fan:

When they were in the Big East/American, UConn wasn't attracting flies to their football games...I'd like some assurance that their fans and administration give a flip about football because my previous experience as a conference mate with them suggests otherwise.

Really now, cuz I thought we packed the Rent well in the Big East. I guess RGIII was just hearing 100 fans yell at him. ^,^

 

[cellocgg]

OMG, that link had a golden comment:
View attachment 106045

It's almost like UConn is G5 playing a G5 schedule lol. I laugh whenever I see comments like this trying to knock our season

First it was "win games" but now those wins mean nothing. Stop moving the goalposts

 

[Chuck]

I will admit I never anticipated the sheer dominance of the SEC in basketball this season. I hope this is a statistical outlier, because if it isn’t, then UConn, and every school outside the SEC, has already lost the conference realignment battle.

If UConn was going to try to beg its way into one league, it should go to the SEC. It doesn’t need us for basketball, but it could use us. UConn’s football program is irrelevant to the SEC, but the SEC also doesn’t need it to be good or bad because the SEC has football covered already. More importantly, the SEC has no northern presence, and it would get more value from UConn’s proximity to New York than any other league. And the ACC has locked up every member through 2036 and Rutgers and Penn State are not leaving the Big 10. There is no one else to add in the northeast.

I think the SEC is as likely to consider UConn as a one off addition as anyone.

It's an interesting premise. Can the SEC really take over college sports without increasing their footprint? I don't know the answer, nor do I know if that's their goal. I think they may have decided that they can maximize their profit by being the best conference with the tightest geographical footprint. I'd be surprised if any northeast team ever gets invited to the SEC.

I've been thinking that our best fit may actually be the B1G. They are clearly looking at a national footprint and their northeast school (Rutgers) is pretty weak. They have enough football powers that they shouldn't care about UConn being a mid-to-bottom team. But basketball has been an embarrassment for them. They are getting teams in the tournament, but they've underperformed in the tournament and haven't won a championship in 25 years. Do any B1G basketball teams really draw any interest? Even during Purdue's Edey dominance, nobody cared about them. UConn also fits institutionally and culturally with the B1G better than the other conferences. I DON'T THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN, but I think it's worth us pursuing and hope we are.

I'm really starting to believe the ACC is a dead conference walking. It definitely seems like they have teams with one foot out the door, and their strongest sport (basketball) has been struggling on the whole. The recent pick-ups reeked of short-term money grabs or a lack of focus. The fact that they aren't pursuing UConn aggressively shows me that the top teams plan on leaving and the bottom teams don't want to rock the boat.