Big 12 and ACC are fumbling with their expansion apprehensiveness? They will become 2nd class BBall citizens as well if they continue.

[uconnbill]

SEC is the most powerful conference, period. It is not going anywhere nor is the Big 10. Now what else happens with those not in one of the two, remains to be seen

 

[ZooCougar]

it might happen... but I really don't think it will

I haven’t seen anyone saying the SEC will go away but it does seem like the balance of power has shifted in the B1G’s favor.

 

[Stinger92860]

Then there is P1! Who is the next target, the NFL, lol.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Then there is P1! Who is the next target, the NFL, lol.

Either the P2 cools it, and recognizes that they are best off with a broader appeal of their product beyond just the upper midwest and southeast, or the product becomes a P1, at which point the NFL and NBA will rip it apart.

The existence of college sports has been the biggest obstacle to a widely followed minor league for either the NBA or NFL. If college sports effectively turns itself into a minor league that is trying to compete with the NFL and NBA, it will be pretty easy to crush, and will make an NFL or NBA operated minor league more appealing too fans.

 

[Chuck]

Either the P2 cools it, and recognizes that they are best off with a broader appeal of their product beyond just the upper midwest and southeast, or the product becomes a P1, at which point the NFL and NBA will rip it apart.

The existence of college sports has been the biggest obstacle to a widely followed minor league for either the NBA or NFL. If college sports effectively turns itself into a minor league that is trying to compete with the NFL and NBA, it will be pretty easy to crush, and will make an NFL or NBA operated minor league more appealing too fans.

I agree that the NFL and NBA are unstoppable forces, but I don't know if it's as easy as you think for them to fully crush big time college football and basketball.

First, minor leagues are just not financially successful anywhere and certainly not in the US. Baseball can be cute and nostalgic, but the teams don't make much money and pay their players next to nothing. Nobody watches the G League and I guess the NFL tried unsuccessfully with NFL Europe. Also, while they don't have NBA/NFL support, I don't think the NBA/NFL have gone out of their ways to try to crush football and basketball minor leagues, but they have all failed or remain tiny.

NCAA football and basketball are just an odd concept that works. Alums and locals love their schools and they are paying and supporting their players significantly more than a typical minor league.

The only way the NFL/NBA could crush college football/basketball is to take all of their players and fans. Fans have just never shown a love for a lesser league, so why would they show up in the same numbers for games, buy all the gear, etc. for a minor league team? And it would be a huge financial hit to the franchises to finance minor league teams at the same support level. Compare a minor league team's facilities and other perks to what top colleges provide their athletes, and now they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more). And if the NBA/NFL used their monopoly to crush state schools, I can't see local politicians, courts, congress being pleased. The NFL crushed the USFL and lost a $3 judgement. I'm not sure the same would happen if they crushed Beloved State U.

I think the P2 (or whatever number we end with) will be careful not to poke the bears too much. If there can only be one survivor (pro or college), the NFL/NBA wins, but it won't be easy.

EDIT: I do agree that the P2 can wind up significantly harming themselves if they use their power to crush other schools and conferences. Their power is partially in being the top of the heap. Fans of lower teams still watch. Transform that heap to just the P2 and they will lose a lot of eyeballs and the NFL/NBA could end them a lot easier.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I agree that the NFL and NBA are unstoppable forces, but I don't know if it's as easy as you think for them to fully crush big time college football and basketball.

First, minor leagues are just not financially successful anywhere and certainly not in the US. Baseball can be cute and nostalgic, but the teams don't make much money and pay their players next to nothing. Nobody watches the G League and I guess the NFL tried unsuccessfully with NFL Europe. Also, while they don't have NBA/NFL support, I don't think the NBA/NFL have gone out of their ways to try to crush football and basketball minor leagues, but they have all failed or remain tiny.

NCAA football and basketball are just an odd concept that works. Alums and locals love their schools and they are paying and supporting their players significantly more than a typical minor league.

The only way the NFL/NBA could crush college football/basketball is to take all of their players and fans. Fans have just never shown a love for a lesser league, so why would they show up in the same numbers for games, buy all the gear, etc. for a minor league team? And it would be a huge financial hit to the franchises to finance minor league teams at the same support level. Compare a minor league team's facilities and other perks to what top colleges provide their athletes, and now they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more). And if the NBA/NFL used their monopoly to crush state schools, I can't see local politicians, courts, congress being pleased. The NFL crushed the USFL and lost a $3 judgement. I'm not sure the same would happen if they crushed Beloved State U.

I think the P2 (or whatever number we end with) will be careful not to poke the bears too much. If there can only be one survivor (pro or college), the NFL/NBA wins, but it won't be easy.

EDIT: I do agree that the P2 can wind up significantly themselves if they use their power to crush other schools and conferences. Their power is partially in being the top of the heap. Fans of lower teams still watch. Transform that heap to just the P2 and they will lose a lot of eyeballs and the NFL/NBA could end them a lot easier.

If you believe that fans of all the G5, mid-majors and Big East, Big 12 and ACC are easily transferable to becoming fans of a Big 10 or SEC school, than sure, the P2 can survive and thrive. That is very unlikely to happen. More likely, as teams are cut out of competing in football and basketball, the fans of those schools will simply lose interest. As the overall market shrinks, even some of the fans of the surviving programs will wander off because why would they care about a championship in a sport that was rapidly losing fans? At some point, the sport hits a doom loop from which it can not recover, as shrinking fan interest begets more shrinking fan interest.

College sports are unique because such a large portion of the population is connected to the programs. Take that away, and it is just another minor league, but without the support of the major league programs.

 

[Chuck]

If you believe that fans of all the G5, mid-majors and Big East, Big 12 and ACC are easily transferable to becoming fans of a Big 10 or SEC school, than sure, the P2 can survive and thrive. That is very unlikely to happen. More likely, as teams are cut out of competing in football and basketball, the fans of those schools will simply lose interest. As the overall market shrinks, even some of the fans of the surviving programs will wander off because why would they care about a championship in a sport that was rapidly losing fans? At some point, the sport hits a doom loop from which it can not recover, as shrinking fan interest begets more shrinking fan interest.

College sports are unique because such a large portion of the population is connected to the programs. Take that away, and it is just another minor league, but without the support of the major league programs.

I may have added my edit after you saw my post. I agree that if we really drop to a P2 (or they merge to a P1) that can change a lot of what I said. They'd lose that uniqueness with a large portion of the country, including the entire northeast that didn't attend one of those schools.

 

[Jetskies]

I may have added my edit after you saw my post. I agree that if we really drop to a P2 (or they merge to a P1) that can change a lot of what I said. They'd lose that uniqueness with a large portion of the country, including the entire northeast that didn't attend one of those schools.

I watch UConn football because I love UConn. And I love football. I would not go to the rent to watch the Hartford generals or whatever a jets/patriots minor league team in CT would be called. Even if they were better skill-wise than UConn. I think this whole movement is losing sight of things.

The P2 need to chill out and stop trying to milk CFB for every last cent, kicking out everyone else who isn't up to their (subjective) standard. i.e. UConn, OR State, WA State, etc.
After all, there is no P2 without the P4 and there is no P4 without the G5. Keep the beauty and charm of the college game. Libraries and quads, fall leaves on the ground, 55 degrees and sunny. Yes please

 

[Ha Who]

I watch UConn football because I love UConn. And I love football. I would not go to the rent to watch the Hartford generals or whatever a jets/patriots minor league team in CT would be called. Even if they were better skill-wise than UConn. I think this whole movement is losing sight of things.

The P2 need to chill out. After all, there is no P2 without the P4 and there is no P4 without the G5. Keep the beauty and charm of the college game. Libraries and quads, fall leaves on the ground, 55 degrees and sunny. Yes please

 

[NIT88]

Then the Big 10 raids the SEC for Florida, Georgia, Texas and Alabama. Either way, there is no way both leagues survive if a P2 emerges. And there is no reason to go after any other league's members because those leagues are already dead.

The predatory nature of conference realignment is phenomenally short-sighted. This is the equivalent of the 10 biggest market NFL teams trying to box out the rest of the league. I guess it would work in the short term to hurt the small market teams, but on the other side of that move would be a league that no one cares about.

Exactly.

 

[Kolumbo]

As discussed in the Key Tweets hell in a handbasket thread, the ACC and ESPN are close to an agreement. All I care about is, will this affect UConn?

Divide the ACC into 3 tiers.
Tier 1 FSU and Clemson, maybe UNC, Miami. They may be somewhat appeased because they'll be able to break free in a few years paying lower penalties. But they are still in a tty revenue situation for 5 years making much less than the P2.
Tier 2 Middle of the pack - I don't see how they are happy at all. They are expected to give up revenue to Tier 1 while they believe they are just as valuable. Then the best programs will leave anyway. I don't think so.
Tier 3 cuse, wake, bcu, louisville, etc. - They may be somewhat happy because they are safely in a conference and happy to make whatever they can, knowing it will eventually be downgraded. Inevitability.
It's just a collection of programs all with different agendas.

The Big 12 at 16 members may still be interested in UConn and the Northeast. The Big 12 may make a move if the ACC-espn agreement goes through knowing those acc programs are off the table.

 

[KryHavok]

As discussed in the Key Tweets hell in a handbasket thread, the ACC and ESPN are close to an agreement. All I care about is, will this affect UConn?

...

The Big 12 at 16 members may still be interested in UConn and the Northeast. The Big 12 may make a move if the ACC-espn agreement goes through knowing those acc programs are off the table.

Short term, I wonder if that maybe gets us some games with the lower tiered schools in that conference if they won't be playing the upper ones more due to the ND agreement. Your last 2 statements though are all I care about cuz if schools were available, they would take spots that could've been offered to us...I don't want a repeat of last year's CR clusterflub.

 

[Kolumbo]

Cal in the ACC

"There were no more flights available by the time Cal finally landed in Miami that evening. In the airport, Malcom gathered her team and delivered the news: They would in fact have to take a bus to Florida State. “I was like, ‘All right, this is the moment of adapt and adjust,’” Malcom recalls telling her team in the Miami airport. “‘Here we go.’”"
"And all because of a busted toilet, Cal women’s volleyball rode through Florida for eight bleary-eyed hours, and they arrived in Tallahassee 12 hours before their 6:30 p.m. game. They lost in three sets."

ACC Travel Takes Its Toll on Cal, Stanford

At Cal and Stanford, fall sports teams traveled tens of thousands of miles farther than their last seasons in the Pac-12.

frontofficesports.com

 

[uconndogs]

Cal in the ACC

"There were no more flights available by the time Cal finally landed in Miami that evening. In the airport, Malcom gathered her team and delivered the news: They would in fact have to take a bus to Florida State. “I was like, ‘All right, this is the moment of adapt and adjust,’” Malcom recalls telling her team in the Miami airport. “‘Here we go.’”"
"And all because of a busted toilet, Cal women’s volleyball rode through Florida for eight bleary-eyed hours, and they arrived in Tallahassee 12 hours before their 6:30 p.m. game. They lost in three sets."

ACC Travel Takes Its Toll on Cal, Stanford

At Cal and Stanford, fall sports teams traveled tens of thousands of miles farther than their last seasons in the Pac-12.

frontofficesports.com

Well......as long as all of this realignment has the best interest of the "college athlete" at heart......

Honestly, what a joke. We really need to send college volleyball teams across the country on a regular basis to promote competition, to say nothing about what it means to the kids?

 

[GoConn]

Cal in the ACC

"There were no more flights available by the time Cal finally landed in Miami that evening. In the airport, Malcom gathered her team and delivered the news: They would in fact have to take a bus to Florida State. “I was like, ‘All right, this is the moment of adapt and adjust,’” Malcom recalls telling her team in the Miami airport. “‘Here we go.’”"
"And all because of a busted toilet, Cal women’s volleyball rode through Florida for eight bleary-eyed hours, and they arrived in Tallahassee 12 hours before their 6:30 p.m. game. They lost in three sets."

ACC Travel Takes Its Toll on Cal, Stanford

At Cal and Stanford, fall sports teams traveled tens of thousands of miles farther than their last seasons in the Pac-12.

frontofficesports.com

I don't think this will be sustainable.

 

[Kolumbo]

I don't think this will be sustainable.

Plenty of Cal and Cal State options in the Big West and WCC for volleyball players. They may not be Standford or call, but a volleyball player can get a heck of an education at UC-Davis or Pepperdine and hardly ever leave California.

 

[Jetskies]

Plenty of Cal and Cal State options in the Big West and WCC for volleyball players. They may not be Standford or call, but a volleyball player can get a heck of an education at UC-Davis or Pepperdine and hardly ever leave California.

totally.

why would you, as a Cal/Stanford olympic sport player who likely will see the end of all things sports-wise at graduation, risk your academics (which you are actually there for, unlike football/bball players) for the sake of this sport that is not going to take you anywhere meaningful after this? cross country trips for the volleyball or soccer teams, is going to hurt these kids fatigue/academic-wise in ways they don't deserve to be hurt. Keeping in mind that athletes at Cal and Stanford a lot of times are in pre-law/pre-med tracks and/or STEM majors, they don't have the luxury an auburn football player has, to not care.