BET Non UConn Games

[Edward Sargent]

Not sure how far I can have the Johnnies go in my bracket. Can't shoot can't win

 

[SwingDog]

Yup. I applauded the hire in 2023 while the NCAAT was going on. It wasn't a matter of it St John's was going to comeback, but when. This is great for the Big East.

I would love to know Hurley 's thoughts as he was watching St. John's defeated Creighton.

I think the feeling around here was pretty close to unanimous that from a strictly X's and O's standpoint, Pitino was a great hire. As far as what Hurley is thinking, I wouldn't want to speculate. But I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a little something about Pitino coming into a program on the skids and building a top 10 team and winning a BE tournament in only 2 years. And who knows how far they'll go in the NCAA Tournament? They could very possibly be a final four team. It's not supposed to happen like this.

So, there may be a sense among fans and maybe coaches too that the new kid in town is very suddenly at the top of the heap and getting all the accolades while others have been slogging away trying to build something and reach some milestones. Of course, that's an antiquated way of thinking. We all understand how the complexion of college basketball has changed so dramatically that it really is possible to build a powerhouse in short time. But this quickly? Yep, like it or not. And there is no better example than Pitino and St. John's.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Over a guy who tries to act smug and classy yeah I prefer an a hole who calls it like it is. If you can coach that's all that matters, what you or anyone else thinks of Pitino doesn't matter if your not in a jail cell you will coach.

I mean, cool. He’s a terrible dude and a great coach. I already said that. I also remember that this program has won a quarter of the national championships this century so I’m not doing the “poor us I wish we were St. Johns” thing that some of you are. We’ll see how their tournament goes.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

While I normally have little interest in St John's and also have little desire to see Pitino, the conference as a whole needs something besides us and Nova (if they can make the right hire to replace Neptune).

To give an idea of where the remainder of the conference has been:

The last current member (not named UConn or Villanova) to win a game in the final four was Butler (not even in the BE at the time) in 2011, which was a repeat of Butler's 2010 run.

The last current member (not named UConn or Villanova) to make the final four as a BE school was Georgetown in 2007, the only other appearance in the 2000's (it's 2025 by the way) was Marquette in 2003 (not a member at that time).

The last current member (not named UConn or Villanova) win a game in the final four was as a BE school was Seton Hall in 1989.

Below is a list of the historic final four presence of each of the other nine members:

View attachment 107781

The results are pretty sparse, with much of it occurring prior to expansion to 64 (now 68) schools in the tournament.

The Big Ten hasn't won a championship since 2000 and we should be worried about the amount of Final Fours the league has? C'mon...

There is no problem here for the Big East. Every conference is going to have their top 2 programs dominate the rest. What we need is for our top programs to stay competitive nationally consistently.

 

[djct1999]

It’s a dog eat dog world and every man is for itself.
I don’t care about the Big East. I don’t care bout the P4.
I care about UConn.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The Big Ten hasn't won a championship since 2000 and we should be worried about the amount of Final Fours the league has? C'mon...

There is no problem here for the Big East. Every conference is going to have their top 2 programs dominate the rest. What we need is for our top programs to stay competitive nationally consistently.

The B1G has layed an enormous goose egg since MSU and Mateen Cleeves. I'm not sure how that means Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence or any of the other schools outside of Nova (who needs a home run hire) and UConn has had any success this quarter century, nor do I see how that means those who want the BE as a whole to have credibility as a power conference wouldn't prefer seeing St John's and slick Rick succeed.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

It’s a dog eat dog world and every man is for itself.
I don’t care about the Big East. I don’t care bout the P4.
I care about UConn.

Sadly this is exactly the world that we currently live in.

 

[John]

I think the feeling around here was pretty close to unanimous that from a strictly X's and O's standpoint, Pitino was a great hire. As far as what Hurley is thinking, I wouldn't want to speculate. But I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a little something about Pitino coming into a program on the skids and building a top 10 team and winning a BE tournament in only 2 years. And who knows how far they'll go in the NCAA Tournament? They could very possibly be a final four team. It's not supposed to happen like this.

So, there may be a sense among fans and maybe coaches too that the new kid in town is very suddenly at the top of the heap and getting all the accolades while others have been slogging away trying to build something and reach some milestones. Of course, that's an antiquated way of thinking. We all understand how the complexion of college basketball has changed so dramatically that it really is possible to build a powerhouse in short time. But this quickly? Yep, like it or not. And there is no better example than Pitino and St. John's.

Or Louisville last year vs this year

 

[RuffRuff]

They remind me a lot of 2023 SDSU, we’ll see what happens.

That team had nothing that looked like the StJ big 3.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That team had nothing that looked like the StJ big 3.

That SDSU team made it to the national championship game. I'll believe this St John's team is capable of doing the same when I see it.

 

[RuffRuff]

That SDSU team made it to the national championship game. I'll believe this St John's team is capable of doing the same when I see it.

That was a fairly flukey season - they got there by beating FAU in the semis, and a pretty good Creighton team in the Elite 8. They made you play ugly ball as opposed to this StJ team that can just impose themselves on you, using pressure. They didn’t have anything that looked like Kadari or Luis.

 

[REB1094]

St. John’s has tied the record for most wins in BE play (18-2) and won a BET championship. Pressure is on to win the NCAAT

 

[gsmooth]

That was a fairly flukey season - they got there by beating FAU in the semis, and a pretty good Creighton team in the Elite 8. They made you play ugly ball as opposed to this StJ team that can just impose themselves on you, using pressure. They didn’t have anything that looked like Kadari or Luis.

Mmmm... that San Diego St. beat the #1 overall seed Alabama in the Sweet 16, too. That SDSU team was really good and gave UConn their toughest game as well in the 2023 NCAAT. UConn was only up 5 with 5 minutes left in that game before they broke away.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That was a fairly flukey season - they got there by beating FAU in the semis, and a pretty good Creighton team in the Elite 8. They made you play ugly ball as opposed to this StJ team that can just impose themselves on you, using pressure. They didn’t have anything that looked like Kadari or Luis.

They still made it further in the dance than any St John's team ever has. Again, I'll believe this St John's team can make a deep run when I see it. If they do, I'll admit I was wrong. I have a feeling however that if they don't, instead of admitting that you were wrong you'll just come up with some excuse.

 

[Scoe]

I mean, cool. He’s a terrible dude and a great coach. I already said that. I also remember that this program has won a quarter of the national championships this century so I’m not doing the “poor us I wish we were St. Johns” thing that some of you are. We’ll see how their tournament goes.

Why would anyone here wanna trade our position for St Johns? Well be fine. St Johns is clearly better than us this year, it's ok to admit that, give them credit.

 

[RuffRuff]

They still made it further in the dance than any St John's team ever has. Again, I'll believe this St John's team can make a deep run when I see it. If they do, I'll admit I was wrong. I have a feeling however that if they don't, instead of admitting that you were wrong you'll just come up with some excuse.

The bias lathered in this place makes me laugh at times - we are way too insecure a fan base. Were they really, really good because we beat them?

Whether this StJ team makes it further than them isn’t really a way to compare. Every field is different. Player for player and coach for coach I think this StJ team is better. Show me any player on that team that looked like Kadari Smith or Luis. Do you think that SDSU team would have steamrolled through the BE and gone 21-2?

 

[navery12]

The bias lathered in this place makes me laugh at times - we are way too insecure a fan base. Were they really, really good because we beat them?

Whether this StJ team makes it further than them isn’t really a way to compare. Every field is different. Player for player and coach for coach I think this StJ team is better. Show me any player on that team that looked like Kadari Smith or Luis. Do you think that SDSU team would have steamrolled through the BE and gone 21-2?

You calling out supposed bias in a post about St John's is very funny. The only thing more annoying and bizarre than your Pitino/St John's obsession this season is your complete inability to spell any of their player's names

 

[RuffRuff]

You calling out supposed bias in a post about St John's is very funny. The only thing more annoying and bizarre than your Pitino/St John's obsession this season is your complete inability to spell any of their player's names

Do you really think I’m obsessed with Pitino? Is it that hard to respect what he’s accomplished? Do we always have to be so stuck in the tribal mentality to not appreciate the broader landscape and what other coaches and programs are accomplishing? There are boneheads here so stuck in that mentality they want him to lose in the NCAA tournament even though it results in financial reward for UConn. There are people calling him a bad man. Is he really? People screw up, shouldn’t be cast into a box. As long as we are stuck in the BE we should always hope the league does well in the tournament. It’s stupid not to. Being objective is not being biased for the other teams. It’s not having your head so far up the UConn @ss that you can’t see things non UConn clearly.

 

[navery12]

Do you really think I’m obsessed with Pitino? Is it that hard to respect what he’s accomplished? Do we always have to be so stuck in the tribal mentality to not appreciate the broader landscape and what other coaches and programs are accomplishing? There are boneheads here so stuck in that mentality they want him to lose in the NCAA tournament even though it results in financial reward for UConn. There are people calling him a bad man. Is he really? People screw up, shouldn’t be cast into a box. As long as we are stuck in the BE we should always hope the league does well in the tournament. It’s stupid not to. Being objective is not being biased for the other teams. It’s not having your head so far up the UConn @ss that you can’t see things non UConn clearly.

Yes, I think you are weirdly obsessed with Rick Pitino and have been all year. And yes Rick Pitino is a truly awful human being

 

[alexd]

Wow. The last St John's BET title was in 2000.
We were one year removed from 77-74.

 

[Ripper32]

Not sure how far I can have the Johnnies go in my bracket. Can't shoot can't win

They are a satisfactory mid range shooting team. The problem they may run into is when they run into a SEC team that's just as athletic and deep. Then their advantages dwindle.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The bias lathered in this place makes me laugh at times - we are way too insecure a fan base. Were they really, really good because we beat them?

Whether this StJ team makes it further than them isn’t really a way to compare. Every field is different. Player for player and coach for coach I think this StJ team is better. Show me any player on that team that looked like Kadari Smith or Luis. Do you think that SDSU team would have steamrolled through the BE and gone 21-2?

So what you are sayimg is "i've already decided that I am right and regardless of what the evidence ultimately shows, I will still be right".

You are the one being biased, already giving this St John's team credit beyond what has yet been earned. Have you considered the possibility that the Big East may be the weakest it has ever been at the top of the conference? Peronally I don't see a whole lot in Richmond or Smith,. not when looking at players who have excelled at this level over the past decade. Luis is very good, but until the last few weeks his offensive game (which is really what he has) has had a ton of holes in it.

Again, they should need to earn something before you annoint them.

 

[gsmooth]

Wow. The last St John's BET title was in 2000.
We were one year removed from 77-74.

I remember that 2000 title vividly even though it was 25 years ago. I had the same feeling of humility yesterday watching St. John's pummel Creighton that I had 25 years ago when they pummeled UConn in BET championship game. All I kept thinking was, "what a difference a year makes". Both times I was comparing UConn in those years to the their prior year championship teams and seeing how nerfed down they were from defections to the NBA and graduation.

 

[djct1999]

Yes, I think you are weirdly obsessed with Rick Pitino and have been all year. And yes Rick Pitino is a truly awful human being

And what he accomplished this year is an an achievement but hardly as impressive as people are making it. Yeah, he built a team of transfers with Mike Repoles money. St John’s ran the table in a year where UConn, Nova, Creighton, and Marquette had down years. Are they good? Yep. But this talk of best of all time because of this is pure lunacy. Whoopty do.

Historically, what Danny accomplished the last two years and how he accomplished it is 100x more impressive. St John’s wasn’t a rebuild it was a purchase.

 

[RuffRuff]

So what you are sayimg is "i've already decided that I am right and regardless of what the evidence ultimately shows, I will still be right".

You are the one being biased, already giving this St John's team credit beyond what has yet been earned. Have you considered the possibility that the Big East may be the weakest it has ever been at the top of the conference? Peronally I don't see a whole lot in Richmond or Smith,. not when looking at players who have excelled at this level over the past decade. Luis is very good, but until the last few weeks his offensive game (which is really what he has) has had a ton of holes in it.

Again, they should need to earn something before you annoint them.

I don’t think you can evaluate two teams head to head based on how far they go in a respective tourney as paths are unique. That SDSU team had a path soft as butter other than Bama, which was a weak overall 1 that year. I think this StJ team would kick that SDSU teams @ss head to head. But if you want me to put something on the line then yeah, I think this StJ team will go deep in this tourney. What they do well and the unique athletes they have is hard to prepare for. I’ll come back to you after the brackets are out. This field is dramatically better than that 2023 field, evidenced quite clearly by the KenPom of the top seeds this year. There are 6 teams higher in KP right now than we finished that year. Think about that. There are 9 teams better than what that top overall Bama finished. That was a weak field.