Best peak performance UConn team?

[yungdowork]

04's bigs might be the best group of 4 big men ever assembled on a college basketball team. It was so difficult for teams to get anywhere near the paint even when we had both our starters on the bench. Okafor was also just insane that year; he led the nation in field goals, blocks, rebounds, and win shares.

As a 10 year old at the time, I felt like Rashad Anderson was the pinnacle of shooting a basketball. Felt like the guy couldn't miss. I was surprised looking back that Denham Brown shot 39% from 3 that year as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

2004 for sure. That team was absolutely loaded. Their only issue was focus, because from a talent standpoint they were better than anyone.

 

[caw]

04's bigs might be the best group of 4 big men ever assembled on a college basketball team. It was so difficult for teams to get anywhere near the paint even when we had both our starters on the bench. Okafor was also just insane that year; he led the nation in field goals, blocks, rebounds, and win shares.

As a 10 year old at the time, I felt like Rashad Anderson was the pinnacle of shooting a basketball. Felt like the guy couldn't miss. I was surprised looking back that Denham Brown shot 39% from 3 that year as well.

Slightly OT, I do wonder how 2006 would have stacked up if Bynum had made it to Storrs. And if Price hadn't had his suspension. Boone, Armstrong, Adrien, Nelson and Bynum would have been a boatload upfront. Not to mention Gay and Brown at the three. AJ, Williams, Anderson, Austrie at the guard positions. That team was already arguably the best team in the country without Bynum and AJ.

That team was not as good as 1995 or 1994. When you look at lack of a bench you have to believe they overachieved. Or how good Ray and Doran were.
Having two freshman as your bench must of gave JC sleepless nights.

1994, 1995 1996 all had issues with frontcourt depth. Obviously Marshall was in a class by himself but if Knight is the second best big over three years, that just shows how shallow those teams were at those positions. I know Donny played some four over those years but he wasn't really a four and him playing there only exacerbates how poorly depth there was.

I do think King gets a raw deal in how he is regarded partially because of how his senior year ended. He was playing really well before his suspension.

 

[gtcam]

I have to look at it in a pre transfer portal way. The portal has changed college basketball.
The 2009 team was nasty and that's not an adjective I throw around too much, however, at peak time they were banged up a bit.
2004 was a resilient team as was 2014 and the run 2014 had in the NCAAs was nothing short of fantastic based on the competition.
2005-2006 - won the Maui vs 3 top 10 teams, lost 2 regular season games , lost the 6 OT OBE tourney game and came up short vs G Mason in the NCAAs - finished the season ranked 2nd in nation.
The 1995 and 1996 teams played in the wonder years of the OBE and more than held their own but again, injuries to key players prevented them from hitting the heights they deserved.
1998-99 had moxie and had not only talent at every key position but they all were tireless workers and willed their way to a NC.
Now to 2023 - the one thing that made the team harder to beat was DC off the bench - without him the team is no way near as strong as other teams in the past. I know the youngsters here haven't the privilege of experiencing the OBE in its heyday, and I dont agree at all that the players now are better shooters. Might be better athletes but not more skilled.

 

[caw]

I have to look at it in a pre transfer portal way. The portal has changed college basketball.
The 2009 team was nasty and that's not an adjective I throw around too much, however, at peak time they were banged up a bit.
2004 was a resilient team as was 2014 and the run 2014 had in the NCAAs was nothing short of fantastic based on the competition.
2005-2006 - won the Maui vs 3 top 10 teams, lost 2 regular season games , lost the 6 OT OBE tourney game and came up short vs G Mason in the NCAAs - finished the season ranked 2nd in nation.
The 1995 and 1996 teams played in the wonder years of the OBE and more than held their own but again, injuries to key players prevented them from hitting the heights they deserved.
1998-99 had moxie and had not only talent at every key position but they all were tireless workers and willed their way to a NC.
Now to 2023 - the one thing that made the team harder to beat was DC off the bench - without him the team is no way near as strong as other teams in the past. I know the youngsters here haven't the privilege of experiencing the OBE in its heyday, and I dont agree at all that the players now are better shooters. Might be better athletes but not more skilled.

Not sure I agree on 2023 assessment, or perhaps you are overstating it a bit, mainly because of Sanogo. I think even without DC off the bench 2023 would stack up pretty well against the 1995 and 1996 teams, I think Sanogo would feast against 1995 and 1996. And I think the 1-4 would hold their own.

Even against the 1999 team, Sanogo would probably be the best big in the game, like Brand was. I think the 2023 starting unit has a lot similarities to that 1999 Duke starting five. And while UConn won in 1999 it was a close game against Duke.

Brand - Sanogo
Battier - Karaban
Carrawell - Jackson
Langdon - Hawkins
Avery - Newton

Benches were different, but Duke in 1999 only got 8 points off the bench against UConn, all from Maggette. So they put up 66 without him. Without DC, 2023 doesn't have anyone as good as Maggette but I think Alleyne and Joey were at least as good as Burgess and James on 1999 Duke. With DC, the comparison is much better for the 2023 UConn team.

2023 without DC may not be as good, but they aren't as far away as you are making. Not that it matters, they had DC.

Without DC, 1994 would be a problem because they had Marshall to go with a crazy good 1-3. 2004 and 2009 could probably largely negate Sanogo with their depth and length and skill if you don't include DC.

 

[Rocktheworld]

2004 but 2009 can’t be too far off

 

[Tenspro2002]

2004.

We led #6 Oklahoma by 40.

 

[selles]

2023 wouldn’t even be in my consideration. Yes, we looked great when we were rolling over all opposition, but how many teams did we beat that were real to ten teams? ‘Bama? In November? Marquette once out of three tries? Creighton one out of two?

Most of the other teams on your list beat national championship contenders again and again and again. Last year was great, and I love how that team developed, and we are national champions because we deserved to be. But we don’t have the basis that we have with the other teams on your list to know that they could overcome other great teams.

I think that argument's based on the 'names' of the teams involved, not the quality. 2023 beat all of the following teams by double digits: kenpom 4, 8, 13, 14, 22, 24 and 29 (two top 10, four top 15, and seven top 30)/sagarin 2, 7, 15, 16, 18, and 20 (two top 10, six top 20). Again, all by double digits.

 

[gsmooth]

I think that argument's based on the 'names' of the teams involved, not the quality. 2023 beat all of the following teams by double digits: kenpom 4, 8, 13, 14, 22, 24 and 29 (two top 10, four top 15, and seven top 30)/sagarin 2, 7, 15, 16, 18, and 20 (two top 10, six top 20). Again, all by double digits.

correct. And with the exception of Iona, who was a good mid major team and not an easy 1st round match, the 5 teams after the 1st round were all top 25 in the polls and KenPom. I would have to check, but I think there were only 3 other national champions in the last 15 years, or something like that, that can say that.

That's why that whole narrative that UConn got lucky in the NCAA avoiding certain teams doesn't fly with me.

 

[Tenspro2002]

2023 wouldn’t even be in my consideration. Yes, we looked great when we were rolling over all opposition, but how many teams did we beat that were real top ten teams? ‘Bama? In November? Marquette once out of three tries? Creighton one out of two?

Most of the other teams on your list beat national championship contenders again and again and again. Last year was great, and I love how that team developed, and we are national champions because we deserved to be. But we don’t have the basis that we have with the other teams on your list to know that they could overcome other great teams.

Eh, the question isn't consistency or average performance.

We beat top 10 Gonzaga by 30. That's peak performance.

I don't consider 2023 as impressive at peak as 2004, but I wouldn't poo poo how this team looked at its best.

 

[businesslawyer]

Eh, the question isn't consistency or average performance.

We beat top 10 Gonzaga by 30. That's peak performance.

I don't consider 2023 as impressive at peak as 2004, but I wouldn't poo poo how this team looked at its best.

Fair enough. I really only mean to pooh pooh it compared to '99 and '04.

 

[Scoe]

Fair enough. I really only mean to pooh pooh it compared to '99 and '04.

We can simulate on what if sports and find out.

 

[Scoe]

Ok 2004 vs 2023

WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- NCAA Boxscore

www.whatifsports.com

2004 wins 96-80

2023 vs 1999

WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- NCAA Boxscore

www.whatifsports.com

2023 wins 108-102 in OT

 

[businesslawyer]

Ok 2004 vs 2023

WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- NCAA Boxscore

www.whatifsports.com

2004 wins 96-80

2023 vs 1999

WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- NCAA Boxscore

www.whatifsports.com

2023 wins 108-102 in OT

I looked at your boxscore. I can tell you why I know more about hoops than a computer simulation. The box score against '99 shows both '23 guards hitting roughly half their shots and scoring a decent amount of points. Ricky Moore would have guarded one of Hawkins and Newton, and that one would not have had a decent offensive game. Period.

 

[Scoe]

I looked at your boxscore. I can tell you why I know more about hoops than a computer simulation. The box score against '99 shows both '23 guards hitting roughly half their shots and scoring a decent amount of points. Ricky Moore would have guarded one of Hawkins and Newton, and that one would not have had a decent offensive game. Period.

You want me to run a best of 7 series?

 

[SubbaBub]

I looked at your boxscore. I can tell you why I know more about hoops than a computer simulation. The box score against '99 shows both '23 guards hitting roughly half their shots and scoring a decent amount of points. Ricky Moore would have guarded one of Hawkins and Newton, and that one would not have had a decent offensive game. Period.

And, the '99 team isn't giving up 90 pts in regulation to anyone. Sanogo would have had the same problem that Brand had. Moore guards Hawkins, Rip/Saunders guards Jackson, Rip/El-Amin guards Newton. Can Jackson and Karaban make up the difference?

On the other side, Jake, Wane and Freeman vs Sanogo, Clingan, and Karaban, Jackson is guarding Rip Newton is guarding El-amin/Moore. I like 99 holding down 23 than I do 23 holding down 99. If Jackson can stay with Rip (a bigger if than one might think), then 23 would have a shot.

The squads have a lot of similarities, 99 gets more love I think because we saw them develop and they were #1 or #2 the entire season. 23 developed into a championship squad after February.

 

[Scoe]

WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- NCAA Boxscore

www.whatifsports.com

2nd simulation, 99 defeats 23, 95-70

 

[Lefty2one]

I don't think it's particularly close. The talent level of the 2004 team was absurd. When you have that much talent clicking it's hard to imagine any of our other teams competing. What they did to Oklahoma or Alabama was wild. The only close tournament game was vs Duke, a game that wouldn't have been close without Okafor's two cheap fouls, and an opponent miles better than anyone the 2023 team played.

2004 had six future first rounders, four lottery picks, three top 10 picks, and two Top 3 picks. That doesn't include Rashad or Taliek or Denham. Our best player was the best player in the nation and #2 pick in the draft.

2023 will likely have two lottery picks (Hawkins, Clingan) and our best player wasn't even drafted. Their peak was impressive relative to the competition but in historical context they're not on par with 2004.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think it's particularly close. The talent level of the 2004 team was absurd. When you have that much talent clicking it's hard to imagine any of our other teams competing. What they did to Oklahoma or Alabama was wild. The only close tournament game was vs Duke, a game that wouldn't have been close without Okafor's two cheap fouls, and an opponent miles better than anyone the 2023 team played.

2004 had six future first rounders, four lottery picks, three top 10 picks, and two Top 3 picks. That doesn't include Rashad or Taliek or Denham. Our best player was the best player in the nation and #2 pick in the draft.

2023 will likely have two lottery picks (Hawkins, Clingan) and our best player wasn't even drafted. Their peak was impressive relative to the competition but in historical context they're not on par with 2004.

Agree with the post but Sanogo going undrafted isn't relevant.

 

[UCan3]

2023 is our best team.

Not necessarily the best starting 5 but 1-10 we had most talent and abiltiy to impose will.

We could extend perimeter D like no other and with clingan joey C allene and others coming off bench we would beat any other Uconn team in head to head match up.

Too much athleticism for any past team to handle.

Before anyone gets too excited this is just IMO and open to debate.

 

[Scoe]

Can’t sleep on the 1990 team either the passing on that team was insane and the 3 point shooting was ahead of its time. George, Smith, and Nadav shooting, Burrell was a game changer as was Depriest. Sellers was a gamer always battling 7 footers like Mourning, Mutombo and Shaq (in 91). Had Gwynn coming off the bench.

No one was beating UNLV that year as we saw what they did to Duke. Our 2004 team was on par with 1990 UNLV.

 

[businesslawyer]

And, the '99 team isn't giving up 90 pts in regulation to anyone. Sanogo would have had the same problem that Brand had. Moore guards Hawkins, Rip/Saunders guards Jackson, Rip/El-Amin guards Newton. Can Jackson and Karaban make up the difference?

On the other side, Jake, Wane and Freeman vs Sanogo, Clingan, and Karaban, Jackson is guarding Rip Newton is guarding El-amin/Moore. I like 99 holding down 23 than I do 23 holding down 99. If Jackson can stay with Rip (a bigger if than one might think), then 23 would have a shot.

The squads have a lot of similarities, 99 gets more love I think because we saw them develop and they were #1 or #2 the entire season. 23 developed into a championship squad after February.

99 gets more love because they only lost 2 games all year in a tough Big East, one of them when they were down Rip and Jake.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I don't think it's particularly close. The talent level of the 2004 team was absurd. When you have that much talent clicking it's hard to imagine any of our other teams competing. What they did to Oklahoma or Alabama was wild. The only close tournament game was vs Duke, a game that wouldn't have been close without Okafor's two cheap fouls, and an opponent miles better than anyone the 2023 team played.

2004 had six future first rounders, four lottery picks, three top 10 picks, and two Top 3 picks. That doesn't include Rashad or Taliek or Denham. Our best player was the best player in the nation and #2 pick in the draft.

2023 will likely have two lottery picks (Hawkins, Clingan) and our best player wasn't even drafted. Their peak was impressive relative to the competition but in historical context they're not on par with 2004.

Interesting some of the comments about level of competition now compared to back then.

Do some believe that the competition in college basketball isn’t as good as it was previously?

(Not saying I wouldn’t agree with that, just wondering others thoughts.)

 

[freshler40]

Great question!
With so many players now one or two and done, the depth in Div 1 college basketball is lower by some degree. That, however, is balanced by so many foreign players and the fact that current players now focus on one sport at a younger age means they develop at a younger age.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Great question!
With so many players now one or two and done, the depth in Div 1 college basketball is lower by some degree. That, however, is balanced by so many foreign players and the fact that current players now focus on one sport at a younger age means they develop at a younger age.

Yeah I don’t think there’s any replicating the 90s where stars stayed for 3 years legitimately. But how about the early years of the one and done era? Is it as good as it was throughout the 2010s?