Best peak performance UConn team?

[TheHorde]

The 1995 and 1996 UConn teams are often overlooked and under appreciated. Those were also great teams that had a combination of injuries and some unlucky seeding that hurt them.

 

[Husky25]

1999. UConn was without Voskuhl and Hamilton for one loss and only lost by 2 vs Miami at Gampel. They went undefeated outside the state border of CT and/or when losing at halftime.

Even considering Hamilton, that team was far greater than the sum of it's parts.

 

[HooperScooper]

What were the comments Duke fans if you can remember.

Walking out of the Alamodome? They didn't say a word. They had their tails between their legs! Or before the game? Duke fans were pretentious with a high brow attitude. I don't remember them talking smack much. They thought they were above us. Glad the Huskies put them in their place in 1999 and 2004.

 

[gsmooth]

Walking out of the Alamodome? They didn't say a word. They had their tails between their legs! Or before the game? Duke fans were pretentious with a high brow attitude. I don't remember them talking smack much. They thought they were above us. Glad the Huskies put them in their place in 1999 and 2004.

I remember that in the 1999 Final Four when I was in St. Petersburg, Florida. I walked up to some Duke fans that were older guys with some gray hair as they were leaving a restaurant table as I was entering the restaurant. They really looked like old money guys, like rich boosters or something. I had my UConn Final Four t-shirt on and I asked them how they thought the final would go against UConn after Duke had their first non-blowout game in the NCAAT against Mich. St.

Their response couldn't have been more dismissive or snobbish. I remember one of them said, "Mich St. was lucky to make the game close" and that he also said "I don't think it will be close against UConn. Duke won't have any problems". I replied "okay, we will see". I didn't want to argue as I just wanted to get seated quickly and get my breakfast. Just recalling that moment makes me grin.

In St. Petersburg, the Ohio St., Mich St., and the fans at the game who were not fans of any of the Final Four teams were all pulling for UConn.

 

[diggerfoot]

fwiw, just ran a sim for a 7-game series on neutral court between '04 and '99.

'99 won 4-2, with the 6th game going into OT.

I then ran sims between '04 and '23 until '23 won a game. Took 17 games for '23 to notch a win, and that was in OT. Most weren't close, although I did get a 77-74!

I am not surprised by the sim results, but from glancing through this thread I suspect most might not know why and need some context.

The Duke squad UConn defeated in 1999 was the most formidable of all FF opponents UConn faced. Duke ended up with the most wins ever in a season until Kentucky eclipsed them about 13 years (?) later, and they compiled those wins against a strong ACC. That’s a factor that would boost them in a simulation over ‘04.

Despite facing their most formidable FF opponent of all time, they beat the spread against them by what remains a championship record. That’s another factor that would boost them in a simulation against ‘04.

The only other team besides Duke that was rated #1 that year was UConn, after Duke was first to lose their lone regular season game. UConn would not hold on for long because they subsequently lost when missing two key starters, Hamilton and Voskuhl. Even so, UConn ended up with their best overall record, BY FAR, out of all UConn teams when they only lost two games for the entire season. That’s another factor that would favor them in a simulation over ‘04.

Some of the once mighty Big East opponents such as Georgetown and St. John’s were starting to decline by ‘04, and the bottom feeders were worse. Schedule strength is yet one more factor that would favor ‘99 over ‘04 in a simulation.

I get why so many people automatically think ‘04 must be the best, given the talent on that squad, but sometimes the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. Comparing the two centers may be instructive.

Okafor was no doubt the greatest UConn center of all time, and bests Voskuhl in all the most heralded stats. But there were two things Voskuhl did better. He was perhaps our best center ever at the outlet pass and was certainly the best center for setting bone-jarring screens. He did little things that made the team as a whole better. That was really the story for the whole team that year; they played extremely well together.

Despite their very high ceiling, there were a few wtf moments and games for the ‘04 squad. The same could not be said for the ‘99 squad with the best overall record and the most impressive championship win over what many considered one of the greatest teams all time …. until UConn beat them.

 

[bmayuc]

Easy answer 2004. Lots of people have stated why but just overwhelming, dominant talent all over the court(Ok4, Boone, Villanueva, Gordon) and excellent specialists(Marcus, Taliek, Denham, Anderson). They had everything and a backup of everything.

I will never forget as a student the moment when they were absolutely clowning #6 Oklahoma in Gampel by like 35 or 40 points and Taliek takes an outlet pass and throws the most absurd and unnecessary no look to Rashad to cap the game off.

That team went through some injuries, Marcus Williams getting suspended, the whole thing. But when they got it together they were just untouchable.

I've been to a whole bunch of games and I've never heard Gampel at this volume it was shaking...

 

[uconngb]

I am not surprised by the sim results, but from glancing through this thread I suspect most might not know why and need some context.

The Duke squad UConn defeated in 1999 was the most formidable of all FF opponents UConn faced. Duke ended up with the most wins ever in a season until Kentucky eclipsed them about 13 years (?) later, and they compiled those wins against a strong ACC. That’s a factor that would boost them in a simulation over ‘04.

Despite facing their most formidable FF opponent of all time, they beat the spread against them by what remains a championship record. That’s another factor that would boost them in a simulation against ‘04.

The only other team besides Duke that was rated #1 that year was UConn, after Duke was first to lose their lone regular season game. UConn would not hold on for long because they subsequently lost when missing two key starters, Hamilton and Voskuhl. Even so, UConn ended up with their best overall record, BY FAR, out of all UConn teams when they only lost two games for the entire season. That’s another factor that would favor them in a simulation over ‘04.

Some of the once mighty Big East opponents such as Georgetown and St. John’s were starting to decline by ‘04, and the bottom feeders were worse. Schedule strength is yet one more factor that would favor ‘99 over ‘04 in a simulation.

I get why so many people automatically think ‘04 must be the best, given the talent on that squad, but sometimes the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. Comparing the two centers may be instructive.

Okafor was no doubt the greatest UConn center of all time, and bests Voskuhl in all the most heralded stats. But there were two things Voskuhl did better. He was perhaps our best center ever at the outlet pass and was certainly the best center for setting bone-jarring screens. He did little things that made the team as a whole better. That was really the story for the whole team that year; they played extremely well together.

Despite their very high ceiling, there were a few wtf moments and games for the ‘04 squad. The same could not be said for the ‘99 squad with the best overall record and the most impressive championship win over what many considered one of the greatest teams all time …. until UConn beat them.

Interesting and thorough analysis…..but the question posited was peak performance. You can’t dispute that the 04 team has far more talent than the 99 team. And depth of talent. If they both performed to their peak abilities, I don’t think it would be within 10 points. Same with 04 v 23. 99 and 23 both gelled, had chemistry, etc……but peak talent 04 is a slam dunk.

 

[diggerfoot]

Interesting and thorough analysis…..but the question posited was peak performance. You can’t dispute that the 04 team has far more talent than the 99 team. And depth of talent. If they both performed to their peak abilities, I don’t think it would be within 10 points. Same with 04 v 23. 99 and 23 both gelled, had chemistry, etc……but peak talent 04 is a slam dunk.

Saying that ‘99 and ‘23 both gelled hints at missing the point. The only bad games ‘99 had was when they were down two starters. They gelled for the entire season, not just the playoffs.

Was the question about potential peak or actual peak? The ‘99 Duke team was being considered one of the greatest teams of all time, certainly better than ‘04 Duke, and would have been had not UConn beat them. ‘99 UConn beat the toughest team and set a record for beating the spread in a championship game. I would call that an actual peak performance that bests ‘04.

Finally, using your metrics to support your claim, I would be forced to say that ‘99 Duke was better than ‘99 UConn, since they had more pro talent. Not happening. I insist that ‘99 UConn was a better team than ‘99 Duke despite having less pro talent. Sometimes the whole really is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[Scoe]

In 2009 the country was cheated out of a UConn-UNC final, would’ve been reminiscent of 99 UConn-Duke final.

 

[Scoe]

1990 vs 2023 would be a very good matchup. Could very well be the best two passing teams in UConn history. The weakness our 2023 team had was handling pressure, which 1990 loved to do , assuming 2023 could handle the pressure which we got better at as the season went along, (like I said peak performance). Jackson vs Burrell would be fun to see not that they would be guarding each other.

Hawkins and the combo of Sanogo and Clingan would be too much to handle. Unlike Georgetown who had Mourning and Mutombo, while that seemed liked a good idea, and yes they did overwhelm most of their opponents against elite teams though their lack of ball handlers and shooting would get exposed got thus making Mutombo and Mourning a detriment offensively.

With Clingan off the bench Sanogo was getting rested and you wouldn’t lack shooting or ball handling.

 

[Waquoit]

It's funny how much the game has changed since our first title. I say the 2023 team than more than a punchers chance against any of the other due to their 3-point shooting alone. I can't see KEA or Ben fighting through all those screens.

 

[Chin Diesel]

1990 vs 2023 would be a very good matchup. Could very well be the best two passing teams in UConn history. The weakness our 2023 team had was handling pressure, which 1990 loved to do , assuming 2023 could handle the pressure which we got better at as the season went along, (like I said peak performance). Jackson vs Burrell would be fun to see not that they would be guarding each other.

Hawkins and the combo of Sanogo and Clingan would be too much to handle. Unlike Georgetown who had Mourning and Mutombo, while that seemed liked a good idea, and yes they did overwhelm most of their opponents against elite teams though their lack of ball handlers and shooting would get exposed got thus making Mutombo and Mourning a detriment offensively.

With Clingan off the bench Sanogo was getting rested and you wouldn’t lack shooting or ball handling.

There's a good chance you have these match ups:

Tate v. Newton
Smitty v. Hawkins
Burrell v. Jackson
Dove v. Karaban
Sellers v. Sanogo

1990 Bench- Murray Williams, John Gwynn, Lyman DePriest, Dan Cyrulik and Toraino Walker

2023 Bench- Alleyne, Clingan, Calcaterra and Diarra off the other bench.

And just to add some spice JC v. Hurley

That would actually be fun to watch.

 

[NJHoops]

It’s so interesting how a few people are already “misremembering” this past season, just a few months after it ended. Memory is a funny thing. They basically had a bad month in the middle, they didn’t suck all along and then finally play well in the tournament.

 

[CL82]

Kemba and the Kembettes

This. As the run took off in the big east tournament, didn't seem to matter who they were playing. Kemba is probably the most clutch player in UConn basketball history.

 

[CL82]

It’s so interesting how a few people are already “misremembering” this past season, just a few months after it ended. Memory is a funny thing. They basically had a bad month in the middle, they didn’t suck all along and then finally play well in the tournament.

They had "a bad month" because they were given a tough schedule on the road against top teams while in the middle of a blood feud by the officials. It would have been very easy for pretty much any team to lose confidence during that stretch. Hurley and the staff adjusting to the "don't go Jackson" strategy and keeping everyone's confidence levels up, especially Jackson was very, very good coaching. I sincerely doubt there are many other staffs that would have, or could have, handled it as well. It was an exceptional job of explaining our strengths and hiding our weaknesses, in my opinion.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I tried doing this with everything in the post and it looked like crap. So, here's a snip of it. Take the five championship teams and the two teams I think were the best not to win- 1990 and 2009 and list out by position. I'll readily concede adding a column for overall bench strength is worthwhile and could make a difference.

It's one person's bored July afternoon of how I'd rank them against each other based on that season's performance and what I'd consider their peak abilities.

PG- Kemba, Bazz, KEA, Price, Tate, Taliek, Newton
SG- Smitty, Gordon, Boat, Hawkins, Lamb, Dyson, Moore
SF- Rip, Jackson, Burrell, Giffey, Robinson, D. Brown, 2011
PF- Dove, Adrien, Boone, Freeman, Karaban, Daniels, Smith
C- Okafor, Thabeet, Sanogo, Sellers, Voskuhl Oriakhi, Brimah

Figuring out the PG's after the first four was tough. I think it's pretty clear, Kemba, Bazz, KEA and Price are the top 4. How you shake out Tate, Taliek and Tristan isn't something I'd fight a whole lot over.
Putting Moore as the "worst" of the seven SG just feels awful. But I'm stuck what to do. I still think Smitty, Gordon, Boat and Hawkins are the top four but then you're saying Lamb, Dyson and Moore are below the mean average for that group. Nice problem to have.
Small forward seem like the easiest to rank. 2011 was a weird year with a bunch of different players starting but no one standing out statistically for minutes played or on court numbers.
Power Forward with Freshman Boone against Junior KFree is a tough one.
Voskuhl and Sellers for the fourth slot for C was tough too.

Just adding it up reminds of how good the two best non championship squads were and goes to the whole luck thing with the tourney. Also goes to show how dominant Kemba was willing that squad to victory.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Saying that ‘99 and ‘23 both gelled hints at missing the point. The only bad games ‘99 had was when they were down two starters. They gelled for the entire season, not just the playoffs.

Was the question about potential peak or actual peak? The ‘99 Duke team was being considered one of the greatest teams of all time, certainly better than ‘04 Duke, and would have been had not UConn beat them. ‘99 UConn beat the toughest team and set a record for beating the spread in a championship game. I would call that an actual peak performance that bests ‘04.

Finally, using your metrics to support your claim, I would be forced to say that ‘99 Duke was better than ‘99 UConn, since they had more pro talent. Not happening. I insist that ‘99 UConn was a better team than ‘99 Duke despite having less pro talent. Sometimes the whole really is greater than the sum of the parts.

I’ve watched that 1999 game dozens of times and the coaching in that game is on a plain seldom seen . Packer’s analysis is also one of the best almost as though he understood what was happening was genius . It was probably JC single best coaching performance. and guys disrespecting K are pretty casual fans.
From a pure talent level the 2004 team was by far the best but I’m not sure they ever reached their full potential. That’s probably unfair because we returned the entire 1997-98 final 8 team which is unheard of today and becoming a true team is a reality when that occurs.,
2004 had some younger guys that were key . Charlie V, Marcus , Boone and Emeka back was an issue all year . He was the key to their success . The drop off without him was huge .
So more inconsistency is expected.
In 1999 we played a top 10 Stamford team on the road without RIP and blew them out . That’s what TEAMS do .
I said before if you could keep Emeka healthy and that cast together for a couple of years they were a pretty competitive NBA team. That’s a at least 3 very good NBA players 3 marginal ones and a couple just a step below on one team .

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I tried doing this with everything in the post and it looked like crap. So, here's a snip of it. Take the five championship teams and the two teams I think were the best not to win- 1990 and 2009 and list out by position. I'll readily concede adding a column for overall bench strength is worthwhile and could make a difference.

It's one person's bored July afternoon of how I'd rank them against each other based on that season's performance and what I'd consider their peak abilities.



View attachment 89382




PG- Kemba, Bazz, KEA, Price, Tate, Taliek, Newton
SG- Smitty, Gordon, Boat, Hawkins, Lamb, Dyson, Moore
SF- Rip, Jackson, Burrell, Giffey, Robinson, D. Brown, 2011
PF- Dove, Adrien, Boone, Freeman, Karaban, Daniels, Smith
C- Okafor, Thabeet, Sanogo, Sellers, Voskuhl Oriakhi, Brimah

Figuring out the PG's after the first four was tough. I think it's pretty clear, Kemba, Bazz, KEA and Price are the top 4. How you shake out Tate, Taliek and Tristan isn't something I'd fight a whole lot over.
Putting Moore as the "worst" of the seven SG just feels awful. But I'm stuck what to do. I still think Smitty, Gordon, Boat and Hawkins are the top four but then you're saying Lamb, Dyson and Moore are below the mean average for that group. Nice problem to have.
Small forward seem like the easiest to rank. 2011 was a weird year with a bunch of different players starting but no one standing out statistically for minutes played or on court numbers.
Power Forward with Freshman Boone against Junior KFree is a tough one.
Voskuhl and Sellers for the fourth slot for C was tough too.

Just adding it up reminds of how good the two best non championship squads were and goes to the whole luck thing with the tourney. Also goes to show how dominant Kemba was willing that squad to victory.

This is a great list. Only thing I’d change is probably Karaban and Daniels. DD was a 1st round pick that year and had 27 and 10 in the sweet 16 and 20 and 10 in the Final Four. Karaban was an amazing role player, but it’d be hard for me to put him over someone who was one of the leading star guys.

I mayyy have Stanley Robinson higher too. He was a projected first rounder coming off 2009.

Kemba was college basketball Michael Jordan in 2011. Still surreal the level he played at all year for us to win games. Never seen anything like it.

 

[Chin Diesel]

This is a great list. Only thing I’d change is probably Karaban and Daniels. DD was a 1st round pick that year and had 27 and 10 in the sweet 16 and 20 and 10 in the Final Four. Karaban was an amazing role player, but it’d be hard for me to put him over someone who was one of the leading star guys.

I mayyy have Stanley Robinson higher too. He was a projected first rounder coming off 2009.

Kemba was college basketball Michael Jordan in 2011. Still surreal the level he played at all year for us to win games. Never seen anything like it.

Not arguing at all. It's meant for discussion and trying to put a bunch of info up there to look at in one post.

So, here's my thing with Robinson at SF. I put him #5. I had Rip, Jackson, Burrell and Giffey ahead of him. What I liked about Giffey in 2014 was Ollie used him at the 5 in small ball lineups and Giffey held his own on the defensive side and with rebounding. And his shooting throughout the year was lights out.

I won't argue with you on Daniels either. I honestly think I have Boone, who was a frosh in 2014, too high, but he filled in minutes at the 5 spot throughout the year when Emeka was hurt.

 

[uconngb]

Saying that ‘99 and ‘23 both gelled hints at missing the point. The only bad games ‘99 had was when they were down two starters. They gelled for the entire season, not just the playoffs.

Was the question about potential peak or actual peak? The ‘99 Duke team was being considered one of the greatest teams of all time, certainly better than ‘04 Duke, and would have been had not UConn beat them. ‘99 UConn beat the toughest team and set a record for beating the spread in a championship game. I would call that an actual peak performance that bests ‘04.

Finally, using your metrics to support your claim, I would be forced to say that ‘99 Duke was better than ‘99 UConn, since they had more pro talent. Not happening. I insist that ‘99 UConn was a better team than ‘99 Duke despite having less pro talent. Sometimes the whole really is greater than the sum of the parts.

The hair splitting on this board……

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Not arguing at all. It's meant for discussion and trying to put a bunch of info up there to look at in one post.

So, here's my thing with Robinson at SF. I put him #5. I had Rip, Jackson, Burrell and Giffey ahead of him. What I liked about Giffey in 2014 was Ollie used him at the 5 in small ball lineups and Giffey held his own on the defensive side and with rebounding. And his shooting throughout the year was lights out.

I won't argue with you on Daniels either. I honestly think I have Boone, who was a frosh in 2014, too high, but he filled in minutes at the 5 spot throughout the year when Emeka was hurt.

I loved Giffey in 2014. He was a Swiss Army knife and pretty much didn’t miss from three it seemed like. Can’t speak on anything from the 90s as I didn’t watch then. It’s really so close the Giffey and Stanley that I wouldn’t even stress too much over it. Stanley straight up took over some of those games that postseason with the way he dominated the paint on both sides.

I’d probably agree with you on Boone too. May put Daniels above him as well if we’re talking about specific seasons. He’s kind of underrated and forgotten about when it comes to 2014.

 

[TheChamps990411]

'04 at their best is the answer. One of the best CBB teams in history IMO.

Ive said that for years. 04` by the time the tourney came around people were calling it the Uconn invitational and they delivered. If not for a couple questionable calls and JC taking his foot off the gas in the 2nd half after going up by like 25 points the final 4 couldve been two big blowouts. Ive said the two best teams ive seen in my 35 years of watching cbb was UNLV 90 and Uconn 04. 2023 maybe cracks my top 20. Although i must admit i cant remember many better teams defensively in that time frame. This years team was unbelievable defensively in the tourney.

 

[TheChamps990411]

2023 wouldn’t even be in my consideration. Yes, we looked great when we were rolling over all opposition, but how many teams did we beat that were real top ten teams? ‘Bama? In November? Marquette once out of three tries? Creighton one out of two?

Most of the other teams on your list beat national championship contenders again and again and again. Last year was great, and I love how that team developed, and we are national champions because we deserved to be. But we don’t have the basis that we have with the other teams on your list to know that they could overcome other great teams.

We held 4 of our 6 opponents under 60 points which is the big reason we won it all. Im not sure what the heck happened to this team between our loss to Marquette and halftime of the IONA game but they were absolute demons defensively and it was over. The offense could go on big runs but defensively they simply didnt allow big runs. Defense and big runs is why this team would be a threat to any team on that list and imho is a top 5 Uconn team ever and possibly top 3. Btw do you really think with the way were were playing that any of the top seeds or even 2 seeds wouldve beaten us? PUrdue who spent most of the season got bounced in the first round, Alabama we beat easily and they beat Houston. Kansas was in our bracket but they wouldve gotten crushed because they simply didnt have enough size.

 

[gsmooth]

We held 4 of our 6 opponents under 60 points which is the big reason we won it all. Im not sure what the heck happened to this team between our loss to Marquette and halftime of the IONA game but they were absolute demons defensively and it was over. The offense could go on big runs but defensively they simply didnt allow big runs. Defense and big runs is why this team would be a threat to any team on that list and imho is a top 5 Uconn team ever and possibly top 3. Btw do you really think with the way were were playing that any of the top seeds or even 2 seeds wouldve beaten us? PUrdue who spent most of the season got bounced in the first round, Alabama we beat easily and they beat Houston. Kansas was in our bracket but they wouldve gotten crushed because they simply didnt have enough size.

That sums up what I was thinking. Besides Iona, who was a tough mid major and not an easy 1st round opponent, the next 5 teams UConn played were in the KenPom top 25 and AP top 25. I think UConn was the 2nd or 3rd team to beat 5 teams in these top 25 lists in the last 15 years of the NCAAT.

I know people will say UConn caught a break by not having to play Texas or Houston in Houston at the Final Four, but I think UConn's size and defense would've overwhelmed both of those teams. I will be honest, when I watched Miami dismantle Houston in the Sweet 16 I got concerned knowing they could be UConn's opponent in the semifinals. Miami's offense scared the hell out of me.

 

[krinklecut]

Honestly, when clicking on all cylinders, there’s no team better than 2023. I’m not sure we ever even say them play the best basketball they could. We’re gonna look back at that team and be amazed at how much talent we stacked.