Best College Coaches?

[HuskyHawk]

The best big-game coach in college hoops? Coaches overwhelmingly say it's one man

“He’ll beat you from tip to finish and can work the game and change momentum when it’s not going his way.”

theathletic.com

Too many haters here for them to buy that. But if you watch them regularly, they change styles constantly to fit personnel. Had a #1 seed playing a 6'7" forward at center last year. Not a small ball 5 that can shoot, more like Andre Jackson. Yes, they lost to Arkansas, but Self wasn't coaching. This team will be drastically different. If they didn't hate him, UConn fans would probably appreciate the similarity to another great who won playing very different styles as needed.

My big question about Hurley was that he seemed very set in his ways at URI and early at UConn. Wanted to see him adapt. Last year he really did it, making significant changes. Even midseason, utilizing Adama differently on offense was huge. This year he has to adapt again, because he cannot run his normal defense with Clingan. I have no doubt he will have them ready.

 

[seeya27]

You're comparing Self's Kansas to the one of the greatest positive outliers in performance in all of sports.

We can't identify winning national championships with greatness in coaching, otherwise we'd have to make Kevin Ollie one of the great all-time coaches, and he had trouble even getting a coaching job, congrats to Kevin for his gig with the Nets.

And that reinforces my point. I have said multiple times Self is elite and a winner. But greatest of all time, or the greatest of our era? I deeply question that.

Yes, he wins regular season and conf titles. But to be the greatest means you are at least comparable to the greatest NC-winning teams/coaches in the modern era. And to me, that equates to somewhat consistently winning the hardest single event in all of sports.

In the past quarter century, UConn has won NCs every 4.8 years. KU has won them every 12.5 years; Self has won them every once every 10 years.

He may eventually get to GOAT status for sure. But all I ever hear from Kansas fans is winning a NC is hard. It requires luck and no injuries (and injuries make a difference certainly). Timing, etc. Again, not that teams are remotely able to win every year. These however are all excuses. When UConn loses, we as a fanbase/administration acknowledge we simply weren't good enough that year. But I never hear that from KU apologists.

Self's lost 18 of 20 years, and almost all were as a top 1 or 2 seed (representative of being one of the top teams in the country), and only rarely as low as a 4. Achieving that consistently is undoubtedly an enormous accomplishment, but that alone hardly makes him the singular best coach in the game. In big NCAAT games he falters, which he doesn't do in his conf tournaments. Plus he's been clobbered (double-digit losses) in some of those losses.

He's great. But the greatest of all time? Is that the guy you'd want coaching your team in "one game"? For me, it's Pitino, K, or Calhoun every day.

One last note about KO: we all know this, but he beat Wright, Hoiberg, Izzo, Donavan, and then Calipari. Some of the greatest coaches of our era. He beat them consecutively with an undersized, under-appreciated team. Good/bad luck didn't play a role in that gauntlet of wins. He was the better coach in that moment -- and that does make it one of the greatest coaching jobs in history.

Just my opinion.

 

[auror]

And that reinforces my point. I have said multiple times Self is elite and a winner. But greatest of all time, or the greatest of our era? I deeply question that.

Yes, he wins regular season and conf titles. But to be the greatest means you are at least comparable to the greatest NC-winning teams/coaches in the modern era. And to me, that equates to somewhat consistently winning the hardest single event in all of sports.

In the past quarter century, UConn has won NCs every 4.8 years. KU has won them every 12.5 years; Self has won them every once every 10 years.

He may eventually get to GOAT status for sure. But all I ever hear from Kansas fans is winning a NC is hard. It requires luck and no injuries (and injuries make a difference certainly). Timing, etc. Again, not that teams are remotely able to win every year. These however are all excuses. When UConn loses, we as a fanbase/administration acknowledge we simply weren't good enough that year. But I never hear that from KU apologists.

Self's lost 18 of 20 years, and almost all were as a top 1 or 2 seed (representative of being one of the top teams in the country), and only rarely as low as a 4. Achieving that consistently is undoubtedly an enormous accomplishment, but it that alone hardly makes him the singular best coach in the game. In big NCAAT games he falters, which he doesn't do in his conf tournaments. Plus he's been clobbered (double-digit losses) in some of those losses.

He's great. But the greatest of all time? Is that the guy you'd want coaching your team in "one game"? For me, it's Pitino, K, or Calhoun every day.

One last note about KO: we all know this, but he beat Wright, Hoiberg, Izzo, Donavan, and then Calipari. Some of the greatest coaches of our era. He beat them consecutively with an undersized, under-appreciated team. Good/bad luck didn't play a role in that gauntlet of wins. He was the better coach in that moment -- and that does make it one of the greatest coaching jobs in history.

Just my opinion.

He and Pitino are the only active coaches with 2 titles, and 1 of Pitino's was vacated.

Ask Izzo how hard it is to win 2. Izzo hasn't won a title in 23 years.

 

[navery12]

He's great. But the greatest of all time? Is that the guy you'd want coaching your team in "one game"? For me, it's Pitino, K, or Calhoun every day.

And that's why you continue to miss the point. Because the discussion is not about Self being one of the greatest coaches of all time, it's about him being one of the best ACTIVE coaches. Outside of Pitino you keep throwing around names of guys who are retired and irrelevant to the discussion

 

[superjohn]

Agreed. There are 15 programs that have won multiple titles, several not in the modern era (San Francisco, OK State, Cinci). So if a dozen programs have done it, and you've done it as a coach, that's impressive.

I know I tend to defend Self, but people are sometimes a bit lazy describing the "talent" KU has. The team 2 years ago had zero 5 stars. Christian Braun was a local 3 star and now plays for the Nuggets. KU gets an occasional 5 star, but mostly has 4 and 3 star guys. I'd argue that's why they win. Same formula UConn has, talented guys with experience over trying to win with multiple one and done guys. Scheyer has taken notice and said publicly that Duke is going to try to build that way again. Hard to win with so many freshmen.

I think we would've beaten them but I'm happy we didn't have to face them in the tournament last season. Self got screwed out of a #1 seed run last season because of his health and they were the team to beat in the Covid cancelled tournament year as well. No matter what anyone thinks of him his consistent excellence is unmatched.

Also so many of his 5 star recruits never panned out for him at Kansas for whatever reasons. Cliff Alexander, Cheick Diallo, Carlton Bragg, Brannen Greene, Josh Selby, Quentin Grimes all come to mind. Often times it's the 3 star players who turn out to be his stars and leaders.

Even Joel Embiid only averaged 11 points per game as a freshman before getting injured and missing the Big 12 tournament and NCAA's.

 

[EBonz30]

The best big-game coach in college hoops? Coaches overwhelmingly say it's one man

“He’ll beat you from tip to finish and can work the game and change momentum when it’s not going his way.”

theathletic.com

Thanks for sending, but unfortunately I cannot read it…..appreciate it though.

 

[EBonz30]

Too many haters here for them to buy that. But if you watch them regularly, they change styles constantly to fit personnel. Had a #1 seed playing a 6'7" forward at center last year. Not a small ball 5 that can shoot, more like Andre Jackson. Yes, they lost to Arkansas, but Self wasn't coaching. This team will be drastically different. If they didn't hate him, UConn fans would probably appreciate the similarity to another great who won playing very different styles as needed.

My big question about Hurley was that he seemed very set in his ways at URI and early at UConn. Wanted to see him adapt. Last year he really did it, making significant changes. Even midseason, utilizing Adama differently on offense was huge. This year he has to adapt again, because he cannot run his normal defense with Clingan. I have no doubt he will have them ready.

I don’t hate Bill Self, I don’t hate any college coaches, hard to hate someone I never met, but I guess your point is some people on this board hate him & it blinds their analysis?

I believe he has a very strong offensive system & he does very well in developing bigs- especially for the college game. He has taken a number of bigs who are not the most talented, tallest, athletic & makes them very capable & good to great college players ala Nick Collison, Thomas Robinson, Morris Twins, Perry Ellis, Cole Aldrich, Udoka Azubuike, Dedric Lawson, Wayne Simien- very good with undersize bigs & making very good college players & a lot of the time lottery picks- who besides the Morris twins all have been zeroes in the NBA- & even the Morris twins play the wing a lot in the league. Embiid obviously a top talent but only played one year- wonder how he would developed with more time. Even the player you mentioned in K.J. Adams had a very nice year at only 6 foot 7- can see him having another strong year this year. I believe that is Self’s greatest strength, with that said per my message from earlier I don’t believe he is a great in game coach.

 

[seeya27]

And that's why you continue to miss the point. Because the discussion is not about Self being one of the greatest coaches of all time, it's about him being one of the best ACTIVE coaches. Outside of Pitino you keep throwing around names of guys who are retired and irrelevant to the discussion

So I will be a man about this... and acknowledge I screwed up. You are right, this discussion was about active coaches. I co-mingled this discussion and one I was having online with KU fans about Self being the GOAT.

I wasted your time discussing "greatest ever" rationales. My bad.

FTR, I don't "hate" Self. I don't hate any coach either. Truth be hold though, I don't entirely like him because I inherently believe the FBI had his balls to the wall, and he and the school should have been punished. Similarly but different to the UNC academic scandal. When I compare those two scandals to the penalties UConn faced (especially the retroactively applied GPA violations) it fries my brain.

But that said, Self would be the best active coach today.

He would not be the guy I would want in one game (I know, not the question asked); with the same talent, I would choose Kelvin.

And on the GOAT list, he is further down the list for the moment, IMO.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I don’t believe he is a great in game coach.

The point of that article that you're unable to read is that a lot of successful division 1 coaches consider him the best bench coach around.

 

[Deleted at users request]

The point of that article that you're unable to read is that a lot of successful division 1 coaches consider him the best bench coach around.

In fairness, the article talks about active coaches it seems. None of them have the experience Self has so I’d tend to agree.

The only ones close would be Izzo, Calipari, and Pitino. I’d for sure take Pitino, but there’s probably a lot of non-basketball reasons coaches wouldn’t vouch for him at the time of that article plus he was at Iona.

Self would be further down that list if he was ranked amongst his generation of coaches (K, Calhoun, Roy, Knight, etc.) With Calhoun, K, and Knight probably being the debate.

Also going to be very interesting to see who emerges from this new generation of coaches as the leaders and champions of the pack. Hurley has a pretty great jump on everyone else right now.

 

[EBonz30]

The point of that article that you're unable to read is that a lot of successful division 1 coaches consider him the best bench coach around.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarity.

 

[HooperScooper]

The point of that article that you're unable to read is that a lot of successful division 1 coaches consider him the best bench coach around.

On3 asked college coaches who they thought are the best in-game coaches. A lot of coaches were mentioned. Surprised at the number of different responses.

College Coaches Confidential: "Which college coaches are best in game?"

On3's Jamie Shaw spoke to over a dozen high major college coaches to discuss who are the best in game coaches they've come across.

www.on3.com

 

[wingsfan055]

For me it's Pitino. Best X's and O's coach of all time. Only coach to win Titles at 2 different schools. 7 Final Four's at 3 different schools. The guy was a winner anywhere he went from Boston University, PC, Kentucky, Louisville, and Iona.

 

[BigTenFan]

Bobby Knight is insanely overrated, and I rate him higher than he should be just for beating Syracuse in 87. But lets face it, a broom could knock Boeheim out of a game that counts.

Knight overrated? Don't think so. Last Coach to go undefeated-went 66-1 from 74-76 seasons. One key injury away from 2 back to back undefeated seasons.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In fairness, the article talks about active coaches it seems. None of them have the experience Self has so I’d tend to agree.

The only ones close would be Izzo, Calipari, and Pitino. I’d for sure take Pitino, but there’s probably a lot of non-basketball reasons coaches wouldn’t vouch for him at the time of that article plus he was at Iona.

Self would be further down that list if he was ranked amongst his generation of coaches (K, Calhoun, Roy, Knight, etc.) With Calhoun, K, and Knight probably being the debate.

Also going to be very interesting to see who emerges from this new generation of coaches as the leaders and champions of the pack. Hurley has a pretty great jump on everyone else right now.

I don't think those are his generation of coaches. That's the prior generation, they are much older. His generation would include Jay Wright, Musselman, McDermott, Few. Self is 60.

Next Generation is Hurley, Smart, Oats, Cronin. Maybe Hubert Davis.

Scheyer, unfortunately, is the generation after that (36). But he may be on the Brad Stevens path. Stevens is still only 46.

 

[HuskyHawk]

On3 asked college coaches who they thought are the best in-game coaches. A lot of coaches were mentioned. Surprised at the number of different responses.

College Coaches Confidential: "Which college coaches are best in game?"

On3's Jamie Shaw spoke to over a dozen high major college coaches to discuss who are the best in game coaches they've come across.

www.on3.com

Seems like Self, Pitino and Painter are common choices. McDermott was good to see. I think he's excellent at it. Really has the team prepared to stop what you do and exploit what you don't do well.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think those are his generation of coaches. That's the prior generation, they are much older. His generation would include Jay Wright, Musselman, McDermott, Few. Self is 60.

Next Generation is Hurley, Smart, Oats, Cronin. Maybe Hubert Davis.

Scheyer, unfortunately, is the generation after that (36). But he may be on the Brad Stevens path. Stevens is still only 46.

Why is it unfortunate that Scheyer is 36?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Why is it unfortunate that Scheyer is 36?

Because I think he's good. I know you don't agree (yet), but I think he's got it and I really would rather see Duke decline rather than having a top coach for another 30 years.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I don't think those are his generation of coaches. That's the prior generation, they are much older. His generation would include Jay Wright, Musselman, McDermott, Few. Self is 60.

Next Generation is Hurley, Smart, Oats, Cronin. Maybe Hubert Davis.

Scheyer, unfortunately, is the generation after that (36). But he may be on the Brad Stevens path. Stevens is still only 46.

Yeah I included all those guys in one group but it’s probably right to separate them into their own generation. Self has just been around so long I looped him in with the older heads there. Would’ve did the same with Wright too seeing all the battles he and Calhoun had.

Agreed on Scheyer too. Interesting year for him as he struggled during the regular season but got the troops together to win his tournament championship in his first year.

Hubert did go to a NC game his first year though too so we’ll have to see how Scheyer does year 2 (because Phew last year was ugly for UNC).

 

[TheChamps990411]

Now that Danny Hurley has brought us another NC, he can reasonably be regarded as one of the best college basketball coaches. Between that epiphany and the threads on Bill Self, I started to wonder, who else should be rated as the best coaches in college basketball today. Is Calipari still great? Self?

I’m old, so I’ll start by throwing Tom Izzo out there; to me, he’s a guy who gets the maximum out of his players every year. Very rarely does Michigan State seem to “underperform,” and some years his teams go further than anyone could’ve reasonably anticipated.

Larranaga should be up there. Excellent coach.

 

[jayteeman]

Other = Hurley, because he destroyed the field with one "honorable mention" player

 

[Yardigan]

Pitino....just wins wherever he goes... where. ever.

 

[Monte]

A good coach can't win with bad players......a bad coach can win with good players.

In college ball: the best coaches are usually the best recruiters,

 

[2ndFlBelden]

No respect for Mark Few. Reminds me of Calhoun on building a program.
Likely to win a National Championship 24 - forward:
Hurley
McDermott
Miller
Smart

 

[Yardigan]

No respect for Mark Few. Reminds me of Calhoun on building a program.
Likely to win a National Championship 24 - forward:
Hurley
McDermott
A. Miller
Smart

Gonna make Rhody fans happy

 

[The Yakk]

Knight overrated? Don't think so. Last Coach to go undefeated-went 66-1 from 74-76 seasons. One key injury away from 2 back to back undefeated seasons.

My HS coach had a hand-written notebook on the principles of man-to-man defense. Stuff he had compiled over years of coaching--what works and what does not. Probably a couple hundred pages of detailed notes.

He said that about half of it came from Bobby Knight in the 60's and 70's. From Knight's coaching clinics, and from just following Knight around and picking his brain when he could.

Once in a while he would pull out the notebook and drill us on one of the concepts. But he never let us see the pages. I was always dying to get my hands on it, LOL. I was a sponge, I wanted to know everything. I think some of my teammates were bored by it, and just wanted to run up and down the court and ball out.

You could see Knight's genius when he called a game on TV, too. He just saw the game at a different level. Al McGuire was the same way, for those old enough to remember him.

I am a lifelong fan of Jim Calhoun, but if I have to win one single game with my life at stake I am taking Knight as my coach. Of course I'd take Calhoun, and maybe Pitino or Larry Brown if I had to. Bill Self, no chance. Matt Painter? I would try to maneuver the other team into taking him.

We might remember Knight differently if his descent into alcoholism did not ruin him. And I guess that's part of judging a coach too. It's hard to reach your kids when you are choking them out.

 

[Hoophound]

My HS coach had a hand-written notebook on the principles of man-to-man defense. Stuff he had compiled over years of coaching--what works and what does not. Probably a couple hundred pages of detailed notes.

He said that about half of it came from Bobby Knight in the 60's and 70's. From Knight's coaching clinics, and from just following Knight around and picking his brain when he could.

Once in a while he would pull out the notebook and drill us on one of the concepts. But he never let us see the pages. I was always dying to get my hands on it, LOL. I was a sponge, I wanted to know everything. I think some of my teammates were bored by it, and just wanted to run up and down the court and ball out.

You could see Knight's genius when he called a game on TV, too. He just saw the game at a different level. Al McGuire was the same way, for those old enough to remember him.

I am a lifelong fan of Jim Calhoun, but if I have to win one single game with my life at stake I am taking Knight as my coach. Of course I'd take Calhoun, and maybe Pitino or Larry Brown if I had to. Bill Self, no chance. Matt Painter? I would try to maneuver the other team into taking him.

We might remember Knight differently if his descent into alcoholism did not ruin him. And I guess that's part of judging a coach too. It's hard to reach your kids when you are choking them out.

JC was awfully good in single elimination games the latter half of his career. He was always great at negating the other team's primary advantage (Shaq, Brand etc.), so we could make a game of it with just about anyone. I'd have a tough time taking Knight over JC in a one off game with prep time.

 

[husky429]

JC was awfully good in single elimination games the latter half of his career. He was always great at negating the other team's primary advantage (Shaq, Brand etc.), so we could make a game of it with just about anyone. I'd have a tough time taking Knight over JC in a one off game with prep time.

Calhoun was an absolute master of the scout. One of my mentors coached for him in the early 2000s and said how coach could remember some random 6th-man from a bad team and tell you every weakness in his game. Or he could draw you the sets the Georgetown was running in the BET a decade past.

 

[BigTenFan]

My HS coach had a hand-written notebook on the principles of man-to-man defense. Stuff he had compiled over years of coaching--what works and what does not. Probably a couple hundred pages of detailed notes.

He said that about half of it came from Bobby Knight in the 60's and 70's. From Knight's coaching clinics, and from just following Knight around and picking his brain when he could.

Once in a while he would pull out the notebook and drill us on one of the concepts. But he never let us see the pages. I was always dying to get my hands on it, LOL. I was a sponge, I wanted to know everything. I think some of my teammates were bored by it, and just wanted to run up and down the court and ball out.

You could see Knight's genius when he called a game on TV, too. He just saw the game at a different level. Al McGuire was the same way, for those old enough to remember him.

I am a lifelong fan of Jim Calhoun, but if I have to win one single game with my life at stake I am taking Knight as my coach. Of course I'd take Calhoun, and maybe Pitino or Larry Brown if I had to. Bill Self, no chance. Matt Painter? I would try to maneuver the other team into taking him.

We might remember Knight differently if his descent into alcoholism did not ruin him. And I guess that's part of judging a coach too. It's hard to reach your kids when you are choking them out.

Bob Knight had a lot of flaws- He was not an alcoholic. I am not sure he even drank at all.
In many ways he was his own worst enemy.
As an IU student during the Hoosier glory days-Knight was a legend then.
He used to have a question and answer session each fall with students in the auditorium. Anyone brave enough to ask a question often got a hell of an answer from Knight. Graduating and going to class were just as important to him as winning.
Different era....

 

[amishboy]

Bob Knight had a lot of flaws- He was not an alcoholic. I am not sure he even drank at all.
In many ways he was his own worst enemy.
As an IU student during the Hoosier glory days-Knight was a legend then.
He used to have a question and answer session each fall with students in the auditorium. Anyone brave enough to ask a question often got a hell of an answer from Knight. Graduating and going to class were just as important to him as winning.
Different era....

Heres a different take:

Former Indiana player alleges physical abuses by Bob Knight in 1980s | Sporting News

Todd Jadlow, who played for Knight from 1985-89, says the former IU coach used to punch him and squeeze players' testicles.

www.sportingnews.com