Best College Coaches?

[huskyblooz]

The consistency of Self's Big12 championships can't be overlooked.
Few has a ton, but the Big12 is a top 4 conference.

 

[amishboy]

3 of the 4 offered up have shady pasts, clouding how much is coach and how much is bag man securing great players. I could have made a case for K, Izzo & JC as 1/2/3 (not that order) once upon a time, but I think Izzo has lost a little on his fastball. Still very good, probably top 10.
Given he has won at multiple schools and just pulled off an impressive & dominant title run here, I would make the case that DH is currently the best coach in the game.

I don’t know if I agree that Izzo has lost something off his fastball, as much as his recruiting classes have declined. He seems to get most of his players from Michigan, and there’s only so many top recruits coming out of Flint and Lansing.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Out of those 4

1. Self
2. Pitino
3. Izzo
4. Sampson

I think Izzo is incredibly overrated. He's always included in conversations with K, Roy Williams, Self, Calhoun, etc. but he only has one ring and he's been at MSU for like 30 years.

I don’t think Sampson belongs in the same conversation with Self, Pitino, and Izzo. I’d put Calipari or even Mick Cronin ahead of him.

 

[superjohn]

I voted for Sampson because he's 8-3 vs UConn since joining Houston. I don't know if anyone who's coached against UConn for 10 games or more has a better record.

That's not saying much, it was UConn's worst stretch in 35 years. UConn couldn't even beat Tulsa back then.

 

[amishboy]

Out of those 4

1. Self
2. Pitino
3. Izzo
4. Sampson

I think Izzo is incredibly overrated. He's always included in conversations with K, Roy Williams, Self, Calhoun, etc. but he only has one ring and he's been at MSU for like 30 years.

Don’t limit yourself to those 4 (only because I couldn’t think of more). Who else do you want there?

You think Izzo is overrated? I feel it’s more about the level of talent he’s been able to recruit. There’s only 7 ex-MSU players currently in the NBA, and only 3 were first round picks (Harris, Jackson, and Bridges).

 

[Fairfield_1st]

I don’t know if I agree that Izzo has lost something off his fastball, as much as his recruiting classes have declined. He seems to get most of his players from Michigan, and there’s only so many top recruits coming out of Flint and Lansing.

That was just my generic way of saying he's not at the same level he was in prior years. I'm not smart enough to know what has changed for him.

 

[mauconnfan]

Izzy is certainly a great coach but agree with a statement above about losing some mph on the fastball. But deserves to be a choice.

Self is a cheater, decent coach I’m sure but I can take his rosters to the tourney a lot and lose early too, .

Samson is a strange character, shady background but a very good coach without a doubt. Close one here.

Pitino is slick, scummy but can flat out coach can’t take that away from him. Don’t like him but he scares me this year because he will have his team playing hard. Would choose him to coach out of these guys.

There’s others that are going to be really good but have a ton to prove still. Despite the NC I’m afraid our Dan is still in other although I’d take him over Self and maybe Izzo now.

 

[bendm]

hurley is the only coach aged 50 or under with a chip. wouldnt trade him for anyone.

 

[uconngb]

Pitino and Self. Hurley can very quickly be in the mix.

Self isn’t even in the conversation

 

[uconngb]

Don't get me started about Self....

Can’t support a guy who is a consistent cheater

 

[uconngb]

Bill Self is the most consistent -- Kansas won like 12 conference regular season championships in a row, which is insane -- and also won a championship last year (2 in 15 years isn't UConn level, but it's pretty good).

Bill Self is a consistent cheater…..that much has been proven. He has also consistently failed in March. So if you want consistency, I guess you go with Self.

 

[husky429]

Bill Self is a consistent cheater…..that much has been proven. He has also consistently failed in March. So if you want consistency, I guess you go with Self.

He has 2 championships and 4 Final Fours. 56-22 record in the tourney with a bunch of Elite 8s, including one at freaking Tulsa. I don't think it's reasonable to say he's a failure in March. The guy is a cheater, but a cheater who can coach a game of basketball pretty damn well.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

How about this for a Mount Rushmore of living college coaches—-Coach K, Roy Williams, Jim Calhoun, and Bobby Knight?

Feel like I haven’t seen or heard of anything from Bobby Knight in ages.

 

[metsfan2323]

UConn has the best head coach and coaching staff in the game today. Everyone else is trying to catch up. Just an incredibly lame list of coaches to vote for in this thread.

 

[TheHorde]

Feel like I haven’t seen or heard of anything from Bobby Knight in ages.

I just saw Roy Williams at Mohegan Sun for the Hall of Fame induction weekend. Roy was looking dapper!

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I just saw Roy Williams at Mohegan Sun for the Hall of Fame induction weekend. Roy was looking dapper!

Now that Danny Hurley has brought us another NC, he can reasonably be regarded as one of the best college basketball coaches. Between that epiphany and the threads on Bill Self, I started to wonder, who else should be rated as the best coaches in college basketball today. Is Calipari still great? Self?

I’m old, so I’ll start by throwing Tom Izzo out there; to me, he’s a guy who gets the maximum out of his players every year. Very rarely does Michigan State seem to “underperform,” and some years his teams go further than anyone could’ve reasonably anticipated.

If you’re throwing Sampson out there, then you’re definitely overlooking PJ and Digger, who both took struggling programs and turned them into powerhouses. Digger did it twice with ND and Fordham.

 

[uconngb]

He has 2 championships and 4 Final Fours. 56-22 record in the tourney with a bunch of Elite 8s, including one at freaking Tulsa. I don't think it's reasonable to say he's a failure in March. The guy is a cheater, but a cheater who can coach a game of basketball pretty damn well.

They have been a 1 seed 10 times and a 2 seed 4 times under Self. Never been worse than a 4 seed. In 20 years. And yet just 4 FF and those 2 NC, one because Memphis couldn’t make a free throw. Same story as Calipari, he gets the talent but doesn’t get the job done when it counts.

 

[storrsroars]

If you’re throwing Sampson out there, then you’re definitely overlooking PJ and Digger, who both took struggling programs and turned them into powerhouses. Digger did it twice with ND and Fordham.

Are PJ and Digger the best college coaches today? That was the question. Hell, surprised you didn't mention Phog Allen.

 

[superjohn]

They have been a 1 seed 10 times and a 2 seed 4 times under Self. Never been worse than a 4 seed. In 20 years. And yet just 4 FF and those 2 NC, one because Memphis couldn’t make a free throw. Same story as Calipari, he gets the talent but doesn’t get the job done when it counts.

You're doing a wonderful job of proving how incredible he's been as a coach.

 

[temery]

They have been a 1 seed 10 times and a 2 seed 4 times under Self. Never been worse than a 4 seed. In 20 years. And yet just 4 FF and those 2 NC, one because Memphis couldn’t make a free throw. Same story as Calipari, he gets the talent but doesn’t get the job done when it counts.

'A national title every ten years, and a FF every five years = a great coach.

 

[mauconnfan]

'A national title every ten years, and a FF every five years = a great coach.

Nah don’t agree. Best rosters year after year, cheating to get those rosters and still not winning a ton of BIG games in the dance field? Underachiever for me, I’m good and respect other opinions but give JC those rosters every year he wouldve had 10 visits to and 2-3 (5-6 easy)more under his name. And he’s a great coach.

 

[Waquoit]

Pitino gets the nod for me. He's won the hardware as well as being the innovator the other's weren't.

 

[uconngb]

You're doing a wonderful job of proving how incredible he's been as a coach.

He gets great talent…..anyone can win in the regular season w great talent. Why hasn’t he done better in the tournament? Does they clear it up better for you??

 

[uconngb]

Nah don’t agree. Best rosters year after year, cheating to get those rosters and still not winning a ton of BIG games in the dance field? Underachiever for me, I’m good and respect other opinions but give JC those rosters every year he wouldve had 10 visits to and 2-3 (5-6 easy)more under his name. And he’s a great coach.

100000%

Don’t get why people don’t see this. Really no different than Cal. I give him credit for being a great cheater and getting good talent. But if you are no worse than a 4 seed for 20 consecutive years, and a 1 seed for HALF of those, you’ve wildly underachieved if you’ve only made 4 .

 

[auror]

Self's tournament resume is pretty interesting. He's got the same thing as Coach K where he ranks extremely poorly as far as Win Expectation against his Seed (390th/415), but quite strongly when when considering Win Expectation against KenPom Rank (even better than K at 15th/415) over last 20 years.

Some of this effect is that it is very difficult for 1 seeds to outperform their expectation. They have to make the F4 to technically exceed their seed expectations, and #1 seeds on average only make the F4 40% of the time, so 60% of the time the seed as a whole fails to meet their expectation (2 seeds make Elite 8 45% of the time, 3 seeds make Sweet 16 52% of the time, 4 seeds Sweet 16 47%, etc. etc. #1 seeds are by far the lowest). Also, at most two 1 seeds per tournament can exceed expectations, and then they can only exceed by 2 wins max, whereas a 7 seed can exceed by 5 wins or whatever in the same run. Basketball is closer to a coin flip for top seeds than it is to a guarantee that a better team should win every time. So by needing to win 4 games just to equal your expectation, your odds are that you are going to lose a 60/40 coinflip at some point.

Self usually overperforms his metrics during the regular season in earning consistently high seeds even when his teams aren't the absolute best, usually by winning a lot of close games due to his stellar coaching (he's been top 100 in KenPom luck every year with the exception of the super young Embiid/Wiggins team and often top 25). Of the 10 1-seeds his teams have gotten, they've been average KenPom rank of 4.9 (median 4), so more often than not undeserving of 1 by efficiency performance. Only twice of the 10 times they got 1 seeds were they KenPom overall #1 or #2. (these are all post-tournament numbers for convenience sake).

The specifics are interesting too. A few times he made the Elite 8 or even Sweet 16 and then just ran into a super strong team. 2016 Nova was a 2 seed in their region, so Kansas in retrospect were underdogs in the Elite 8 despite being KenPom #3 overall. 2013 they had runner up Michigan in their bracket as a 4 seed. This past year they would have been underdogs against us in the Sweet 16 if they made it (they didn't but Self wasn't coaching so not on him). They had to play the #6 KenPom team in the 2nd round against Evan Mobley USC a few years ago as a 3 seed. They were in a 4/5 game against Auburn the tournament before that and were KenPom underdogs as the 4 and Auburn won and went on to upset the 1 and make the F4. 2018 they ran into juggernaut Nova despite making the F4 after entering the tournament KenPom #10 overall. There's a lot of that in their tournament history.