OT: Before hitting the "Normal" button...

[Monte]

Baseball - what about the dugouts?

In one report that I read, it said that the players not playing would sit in the empty stands, and the manager and coaches would wear masks.

 

[ShmiCO]

As someone recovering from this disease right now, I can affirm it's definitely not the flu. I'm 62, fit, normal weight, no pre-existings, great bloodwork numbers. I even eat an annoyingly healthy diet. But man, covid-19 is rough.

I had some very scary hypoxia for the first few days, then a minor blood clot in my ankle. (As we learn more from autopsies it's looking like blood clots are the cause of almost all covid-19 deaths in folks under 60. The clots form in the lungs and travel from there.) Also, badly inflamed lungs -- they feel like they've been sandblasted from the inside. They're gradually getting better but still sore after almost a month. And my doc says I had a mild case.

Bottom line it's no joke, and I would be horrified to learn I'd transmitted this terrible disease to anyone. It's such small potatoes to wear a mask and stand 6' away.

 

[Plebe]

I dearly miss live sports. Korean baseball just doesn’t cut it for me. But short of a vaccine, I don’t see how sports like football and basketball work right now.

The unknowns are towering over all of the sports landscape right now.

It might be a mistake to underestimate the colossal economic and institutional interests that power big-time sports throughout the world — including big-time college sports in the U.S.

Cold as it may sound, big business is routinely waged with full cognizance of its very real, and sometimes life-and-death, risks and costs. See e.g. the relatively minor (in the big scheme of things) fallout from the revelations and findings related to CTE across many sports, most especially in Big Daddy Football.

 

[Skeets]

ShmiCO, hope you continue to recover. We, and that includes the so-called experts, don't know a heck of a lot about this virus, but a couple of things are obvious. 1) it's wildly contagious. 2) it's still out there despite some indications it may be winding down. 3) it may have a 2 week incubation period where an infected person, or an asymptomatic person can spread the virus without knowing it. 4) it devastates older people or people with underlying conditions. 5) flu vaccines often are only marginally effective and viruses are extremely hard to develop a vaccine for, how many common cold vaccines are there?

Having said all that, I think we should open up as much as safely as possible, protecting older people and people with underlying conditions. Without a vaccine do we just stay closer forever? BYW I'm 65+.

 

[Biff]

And yet another Covid-19 discussion thread. No matter how some people try, many just can't discuss the basketball aspect of this subject without injecting a political slant. Some are better at it than others. Some are really really good at straddling the line. That tends to create a lot of editing and oversight work for us mods to keep the thread alive. Eventually it's just not worth the work.

For now I'll let this thread continue but please and discussion must stay related to the topic of basketball (specifically WCBB). General discussion of covid-19 and it's general geopolitical implications will get this thread moved, deleted or locked.

Thank you.

 

[diggerfoot]

Before this thread gets locked I will share the latest on what has been learned, absent any political slant. The way to gauge the impact in terms of deaths is to look at normal patterns for this time of year and see how that differs. In April there were anywhere from 20-33% more deaths a day than would normally occur, depending on how you combine different datasets. So whether those deaths are due to the elderly going ahead of time or overworked health care workers, directly due to the virus or indirectly via a bacterial infection, heart attack, etc., the impact of the virus during the first wave of the pandemic is roughly in the neighborhood of causing a 25% increase in deaths per day.

Our immune system has a two-tiered response. The first tier is a message sent out to neighboring cells to limit the spread, the replication of the virus, with interferons as the stars. The second tier sends a message farther afield for reinforcements to come and kill the virus, with antibodies as the stars. Most viruses succeed by interfering with the DNA coding for both tiers, the immediate ability to limit replication and the follow-up to kill the virus. Research is indicating that CV-19 is unique in that it does a good job of interfering with the DNA coding for halting replication, but leaves the DNA coding for attacking the virus alone.

We have seen both good and bad consequences of this unique trait of the virus. The bad are the cytokine storms. Our bodies have no problem attacking the virus with antibodies because it does not interfere with that function. However, when the body fails to limit replications sufficiently we have created a war zone, with inflammation taking the metaphorical place of a burned out battlefield as the antibody reinforcements keep on coming to battle the replicating virus.

The good news is that antivirals have been showing promise, for good reason. Antivirals are meant to stop the replication of the virus. The drawback is that some can have nasty side effects. [ ] As long as the antiviral can be administered safely it addresses the heart of the problem better than vaccination, which is intended to boost the killer response.

That's merely some of the knowledge gained through research to date.

 

[diggerfoot]

And yet another Covid-19 discussion thread. No matter how some people try, many just can't discuss the basketball aspect of this subject without injecting a political slant. Some are better at it than others. Some are really really good at straddling the line. That tends to create a lot of editing and oversight work for us mods to keep the thread alive. Eventually it's just not worth the work.

For now I'll let this thread continue but please and discussion must stay related to the topic of basketball (specifically WCBB). General discussion of covid-19 and it's general geopolitical implications will get this thread moved, deleted or locked.

Thank you.

Oops. Sorry. I was crafting my post, left it for awhile, came back and posted, then saw your post. My apologies. Please delete if you see fit.

 

[MSGRET]

I spent 24 years in the Army, saw people die and was lucky not to. On the 4th of June my favorite casino is going to open AND I will be there. I'll follow the guidelines set by the casino and will voluntarily wear a mask and take some gloves, but I'm going to enjoy my table games and machines for the first time in over 2 months. Over 33% of the State of Nevada is unemployed. [ ]

 

[Bigboote]

One of the problems with this is that the "experts" that are dragged out on the netwrks, are sitting on either one side of the aisle or the other. It has become a political pi$$ing contest. They are not sitting with us regular Americans.

Bottom line is that economics will play a big role in how we address this in the future months. Not sure if this is a good thing or not. Oh, and politicians will play a bigger role and we know what they truly care about.

An honest cost-benefit analysis is a good thing, including in the current situation. At one extreme we can do nothing, let the hospitals be overwhelmed, and let the virus thin the herd. At the other extreme is shut everything down till the virus runs its course (a long time), and thin the herd because we've destroyed the world economy. Of course, what we need to do is something in between.
[ ]

 

[dogged1]

Before this thread gets locked I will share the latest on what has been learned, absent any political slant. The way to gauge the impact in terms of deaths is to look at normal patterns for this time of year and see how that differs. In April there were anywhere from 20-33% more deaths a day than would normally occur, depending on how you combine different datasets. So whether those deaths are due to the elderly going ahead of time or overworked health care workers, directly due to the virus or indirectly via a bacterial infection, heart attack, etc., the impact of the virus during the first wave of the pandemic is roughly in the neighborhood of causing a 25% increase in deaths per day.

Our immune system has a two-tiered response. The first tier is a message sent out to neighboring cells to limit the spread, the replication of the virus, with interferons as the stars. The second tier sends a message farther afield for reinforcements to come and kill the virus, with antibodies as the stars. Most viruses succeed by interfering with the DNA coding for both tiers, the immediate ability to limit replication and the follow-up to kill the virus. Research is indicating that CV-19 is unique in that it does a good job of interfering with the DNA coding for halting replication, but leaves the DNA coding for attacking the virus alone.

We have seen both good and bad consequences of this unique trait of the virus. The bad are the cytokine storms. Our bodies have no problem attacking the virus with antibodies because it does not interfere with that function. However, when the body fails to limit replications sufficiently we have created a war zone, with inflammation taking the metaphorical place of a burned out battlefield as the antibody reinforcements keep on coming to battle the replicating virus.

The good news is that antivirals have been showing promise, for good reason. Antivirals are meant to stop the replication of the virus. The drawback is that some can have nasty side effects. HCQ looked great with in vitro trials, but in clinical trials has mixed results because of the side effects. I hope it's not too political to say at this point no one should be self-medicating with HCQ. However, remdesivir has shown promise even in the clinical phase. As long as the antiviral can be administered safely it addresses the heart of the problem better than vaccination, which is intended to boost the killer response.

That's merely some of the knowledge gained through research to date.

Thank you, I appreciate a thoughtful fact based, informative and non political post. 1,000 likes.

 

[PacoSwede]

biff, why don't you just close it. some folks are just exposing their crap, and there other are places to do that.

though it at times amuses, its mostly reminds of our lousy time.

 

[oldude]

The unknowns are towering over all of the sports landscape right now.

It might be a mistake to underestimate the colossal economic and institutional interests that power big-time sports throughout the world — including big-time college sports in the U.S.

Cold as it may sound, big business is routinely waged with full cognizance of its very real, and sometimes life-and-death, risks and costs. See e.g. the relatively minor (in the big scheme of things) fallout from the revelations and findings related to CTE across many sports, most especially in Big Daddy Football.

While there are many discussions going on about reopening in both professional and college sports, I think everyone is waiting to see what the other guy is going to do first, before taking the first step. At the college level, there is still a great deal of uncertainty about which schools will reopen for on campus classes and what the fall semester will look like. As far as I know, there isn’t a single professional or college team that has definitively announced their intention to play ball yet.

I would never underestimate the economic impact of big time sports, but it should be noted that just about all sports are talking about playing games without fans, so whatever the economic impact, it will certainly be substantially less if teams rely solely on broadcast revenues to pay the bills.

 

[Steelerone]

I had a very dear friend. He spent 25 years in the USMC. Two purple hearts, many decorations for valor, and strong like a bull. He knew fear but I do not think that he was afraid any one day of his life. He was hit by a car walking across the street and killed.
[/QUO VOD, want to make God laugh? Tell him about what you've planned for your life.

 

[Steelerone]

I’m 75. Living life without inviting others to put theirs at risk seems like an easy choice. At my age, not being able to readily get on a plane to see my son and grandchildren a six hour flight away is much more of an issue than hoops. I hope the sport can be played because I love it, but what is, is.

So true Conenzone. We have already missed our Grandson's graduation which we had started thinking about when he entered his freshman year. And they shut down the Great Lakes so we were unable to attend another Grandson' s graduation from Basic Training which we had planned for. But the bottom line is that they are safe and when all is said and done that is the only thing that counts. Hopefully in the not too distant future you can make that flight.

 

[Steelerone]

Screw everyone else, got it.

I didn't hear him say that. What I heard him say was that if we choose to live our life in fear it won't be much of a life.

 

[Steelerone]

After looking at that chart, all I can say is: I am glad that I am not in the over 85 year old group. Look, as I type this I am in my second home in the San Antonio, Texas area visiting my son, his wife and my grandson. You cannot keep my wife away from her grandson. A few days ago I went to the local grocery store to pick up a few items, HEB. I went in at 9:00 AM in the morning. The place was packed, no masks and people buying their usual groceries with the store fully shelved with all of their items. It's like nothing happened. The only reference to social distancing was 6 ft marked spots on the floor for checkout, single entrance single exit, and plexi panels between you and the checkout person; and no masks. Life goes on. Traffic on the road just like always. This does not bother the Texans. My point is that you cannot live your life in a cocoon. If you do, it is your choice. Oh yes, one more point, there was plenty of Charmin.

As I think about this, both my parents, may they rest in peace, were born in 1909, and lived as children through the Spanish flu, Scarlet fever, and other crap of the day where they had other health issues and no vaccines. My Mom was born in Hartford, and my Dad was born in Meriden. Me: Albuquerque, when it was just a quiet community and drive thru on US 40. They survived.

Charmin, you found Charmin. I recently hired a private detective agency to try to find some. The results - they found me five rolls one one-ply.

 

[UcMiami]

There is a pretty simple comparison out there in the world for what social distancing means - Norway reacted quickly closing down everything and Sweden has left most everything open. Sweden populations is 10.3M and Norway is 5.3M. Sweden has to date 35,700 cases and 4,266 deaths, Norway has 8,400 cases and 236 deaths.
Sweden:
Population 2X
Cases 4X
Deaths 18X
So 2 times as many cases per 100,000 population and 9 times as many deaths.

And the latest information regarding 'herd immunity' in Sweden is that they are not likely to reach that level prior to the end of the year if then. The herd immunity was the rationale for not shutting down.

US state most comparable in population to Sweden = North Carolina with 10.5M, cases = 25,700, deaths = 876 and Georgia 10.6M, 45,000, 1963. Population close to Norway - South Carolina 5.1M, 10,800, 470 and Minn 5.6M, 22,900, 977.

If we use those numbers for the US which has 328M people it would be frightening. Looking at NYC, Long Island and the suburbs out into NJ and CT where exposure was early and response was slow we get an idea what the numbers could be nationally.

 

[visitingcock]

This is such an insidious disease that can be transmitted asymptomatically. Unless you test every player, coach and trainer before every game, every practice and every bus or plane trip there is the chance that someone can catch and spread the virus. College campuses are a particular concern. Students live in close quarters, eat in cafeterias and attend classes together, all of which increase the potential for exposure to the disease.

I dearly miss live sports. Korean baseball just doesn’t cut it for me. But short of a vaccine, I don’t see how sports like football and basketball work right now.

From your name, I assume that you, like I, grew up in the age of mumps, measles, etc.

A few kids died. The rest of us got sick, developed immunity, and went on with our lives. These kids need to move forward with their lives. Will some die? Yeah. Probably about as many as will die from alcohol overdose. Not as many as die from DUI accidents. Nowhere near as many who will commit suicide!

According to the CDC 93 deaths have occurred among 15-24 years old due to coronavirus. (30 from flu. 185 from pneumonia not combined with coronavirus)

Wonder how many have died from drug and alcohol overdoses and DUI?
Approximately 2,200 alcohol-poisoning deaths occur each year in the United States. 5 percent of alcohol poison deaths happen to people aged 15–24. (That's 110). The Scary Truth About Teen Alcohol Poisoning | Newport Academy
In 2015, 4,235 youth ages 15-24 died from a drug-related overdose; over half of these were attributable to opioids. The health consequences of opioid misuse affect a much larger number of people. Opioids and Adolescents

Eight teens die every day in DUI crashes. At all levels of blood alcohol content (BAC), the risk of being in a car crash is greater for teens than for older drivers. ( That's 2,820 deaths per year) Teen Driving Crash and Fatality Stats | Teens | Survive - Stop Yourself. Stop a Friend.

Teenage suicide in the United States. The suicide rate in the United States remains comparatively high for the 15 to 24 age group with 5,079 suicides in this age range in 2014, making it the second leading cause of death for that age range.

Would I be concerned about my child cathcing coronavirus in college? Yeah, somewhat. But there are much bigger concerns out there.

 

[dogged1]

There is a pretty simple comparison out there in the world for what social distancing means - Norway reacted quickly closing down everything and Sweden has left most everything open. Sweden populations is 10.3M and Norway is 5.3M. Sweden has to date 35,700 cases and 4,266 deaths, Norway has 8,400 cases and 236 deaths.
Sweden:
Population 2X
Cases 4X
Deaths 18X
So 2 times as many cases per 100,000 population and 9 times as many deaths.

And the latest information regarding 'herd immunity' in Sweden is that they are not likely to reach that level prior to the end of the year if then. The herd immunity was the rationale for not shutting down.

US state most comparable in population to Sweden = North Carolina with 10.5M, cases = 25,700, deaths = 876 and Georgia 10.6M, 45,000, 1963. Population close to Norway - South Carolina 5.1M, 10,800, 470 and Minn 5.6M, 22,900, 977.

If we use those numbers for the US which has 328M people it would be frightening. Looking at NYC, Long Island and the suburbs out into NJ and CT where exposure was early and response was slow we get an idea what the numbers could be nationally.

OK, that comparison shows that Norway took the right path and Sweden didn't. Or does it?
In the short term Norway is better off. They have flattened the curve.
But what if there is no vaccine 6 months from now?
Then, if herd immunity is real for this virus, Sweden's numbers will taper off, while Norway's numbers will continue at a slow constant pace. Eventually, proportionate to their populations, the numbers should match.
No?

 

[Zinethar]

My college sports prediction given what I see in the current environment everyday: College sports will continue with restriction placed on fall sports (no fans at games etc). College athletes will be on campus in the near future but will remain isolated from general population as much as possible (in many colleges they already were). Precautions will be taken as is felt necessary by the administration of each school in the short term. There will be basketball (college) this upcoming season. It likely won't look normal but will happen. A couple NCAA WBB will have greater risk (UConn, ND, SC,etc) because of great attendance. Most will not notice much change (unfortunately). it is what it is. The mood in the country is swinging heavily and steadily in that direction like it or not. Hopefully by season start there will be a tested vaccine and better understood treatment.

 

[UcMiami]

dogged1 -
Well ... the current percentage exposure estimate in Sweden is 7.5% of the population - herd immunity starts kicking in at 70+% - so if the death rate continues in Sweden, they will have 42,000 deaths before they reach 'saturation' levels. At the current rate in Norway 3 months/236 deaths, it would take close to 60 months/5 years to reach 42,000 deaths.

With the amount of money/effort being expended internationally toward a vaccine I suspect there will be some form of vaccine within the next 12 months.

This is all hypothetical and all we can really see is what is currently identified.

To other posters:
I also know that 25 and under death rate is minimal, but hospitalization rates is not and permanent lung damage to those who require hospitalization is real. Even without that issue, the teachers, colleagues, service personnel, and family members who interact with those under 25s comprise a full age range some of whom are definitely at higher risk of death. I know personally of a few instances where loving adult children infected parents and grand parents. So ... just saying under 25s can do whatever they want because they will not die is ignoring the fact that society is not age segregated and it cannot be. I just completed my weekly run and was in shared space with people from under 10 to over 70. Thankfully most of us were masked and kept our distance from each other.

ON a special note: CVS in Storrs had a supply of hand sanitizer for the first time in three months! I was shocked and walked past without noticing until I saw a display at check-out.

 

[dogged1]

dogged1 -
Well ... the current percentage exposure estimate in Sweden is 7.5% of the population - herd immunity starts kicking in at 70+% - so if the death rate continues in Sweden, they will have 42,000 deaths before they reach 'saturation' levels. At the current rate in Norway 3 months/236 deaths, it would take close to 60 months/5 years to reach 42,000 deaths.

With the amount of money/effort being expended internationally toward a vaccine I suspect there will be some form of vaccine within the next 12 months.

This is all hypothetical and all we can really see is what is currently identified.

To other posters:
I also know that 25 and under death rate is minimal, but hospitalization rates is not and permanent lung damage to those who require hospitalization is real. Even without that issue, the teachers, colleagues, service personnel, and family members who interact with those under 25s comprise a full age range some of whom are definitely at higher risk of death. I know personally of a few instances where loving adult children infected parents and grand parents. So ... just saying under 25s can do whatever they want because they will not die is ignoring the fact that society is not age segregated and it cannot be. I just completed my weekly run and was in shared space with people from under 10 to over 70. Thankfully most of us were masked and kept our distance from each other.

ON a special note: CVS in Storrs had a supply of hand sanitizer for the first time in three months! I was shocked and walked past without noticing until I saw a display at check-out.

Excellent argument. Enlightening.
I suspect that Noway's rate will increase over time as a greater percentage of the population is slowly exposed to the virus and likewise Sweden's will flatten as they approach "herd immunity"
But it is all a guessing game.
The best that can happen now is a quick and effective vaccine. Until then I hope that we all stay safe and stay healthy.

 

[UcMiami]

Excellent argument. Enlightening.
I suspect that Noway's rate will increase over time as a greater percentage of the population is slowly exposed to the virus and likewise Sweden's will flatten as they approach "herd immunity"
But it is all a guessing game.
The best that can happen now is a quick and effective vaccine. Until then I hope that we all stay safe and stay healthy.

I would have thought so in terms of Sweden and Norway, but according to the John Hopkins world map which is about as good as data gets, Sweden cases are continuing on a pretty steady line (not exponential but not flattening either) while Norway is pretty close to flat lining for all of May. Sweden 5,677 new cases in last 10 days, Norway 155; since May 1 Sweden 15,261, Norway 639.

 

[Rocket009]

View attachment 54832
From your name, I assume that you, like I, grew up in the age of mumps, measles, etc.

A few kids died. The rest of us got sick, developed immunity, and went on with our lives. These kids need to move forward with their lives. Will some die? Yeah. Probably about as many as will die from alcohol overdose. Not as many as die from DUI accidents. Nowhere near as many who will commit suicide!

According to the CDC 93 deaths have occurred among 15-24 years old due to coronavirus. (30 from flu. 185 from pneumonia not combined with coronavirus)

Wonder how many have died from drug and alcohol overdoses and DUI?
Approximately 2,200 alcohol-poisoning deaths occur each year in the United States. 5 percent of alcohol poison deaths happen to people aged 15–24. (That's 110). The Scary Truth About Teen Alcohol Poisoning | Newport Academy
In 2015, 4,235 youth ages 15-24 died from a drug-related overdose; over half of these were attributable to opioids. The health consequences of opioid misuse affect a much larger number of people. Opioids and Adolescents

Eight teens die every day in DUI crashes. At all levels of blood alcohol content (BAC), the risk of being in a car crash is greater for teens than for older drivers. ( That's 2,820 deaths per year) Teen Driving Crash and Fatality Stats | Teens | Survive - Stop Yourself. Stop a Friend.

Teenage suicide in the United States. The suicide rate in the United States remains comparatively high for the 15 to 24 age group with 5,079 suicides in this age range in 2014, making it the second leading cause of death for that age range.

Would I be concerned about my child cathcing coronavirus in college? Yeah, somewhat. But there are much bigger concerns out there.

Sigh...

Comparing annual numbers to effectively 3 months of covid-19 numbers creates a distorted view.

and yes, people die of other things, but we do a lot legislatively, and fiscally to try to reduce these numbers.So why should this be any different? For example, let's look at DUIs - we have legislated extensively to bring down DUI numbers, even raising the drinking age to 21, stricter penalties for DUI - then there's car safety legislation... so it is an issue and extensive measures have been enacted to try to impact it.

In a college environment, the high level of contagion this disease carries increases the chances of students catching this disease to close to 100%.(unless you enact measures to limit contact etc.) So while the death rate in that age group is low (and ignoring the impact on employees, support workers etc. who die at a higher rate) are we OK with 0.2% of the student population loosing their life or having their long-term health impacted?

On a campus of 10000 students, 0.2% is still 20 families that lose a child - every 3 months.

 

[visitingcock]

Sigh...

Comparing annual numbers to effectively 3 months of covid-19 numbers creates a distorted view.

and yes, people die of other things, but we do a lot legislatively, and fiscally to try to reduce these numbers.So why should this be any different? For example, let's look at DUIs - we have legislated extensively to bring down DUI numbers, even raising the drinking age to 21, stricter penalties for DUI - then there's car safety legislation... so it is an issue and extensive measures have been enacted to try to impact it.

In a college environment, the high level of contagion this disease carries increases the chances of students catching this disease to close to 100%.(unless you enact measures to limit contact etc.) So while the death rate in that age group is low (and ignoring the impact on employees, support workers etc. who die at a higher rate) are we OK with 0.2% of the student population loosing their life or having their long-term health impacted?

On a campus of 10000 students, 0.2% is still 20 families that lose a child - every 3 months.

First, I assume that readers are capable of understanding that 2200 annual alcohol poisoning deaths is @183 deaths per month as opposed to 93 deaths in 3 months (31 deaths per month) from Covid - nearly six times more. And that is choosing the lowest number of the causes of young people deaths I presented.

Second, where did you get .2%? I would say thin air and that nowhere near that many young people die from Covid-19. Maybe 0.2% of the young people who are known to have had it. However, it is well documented that many young people in that age group become infected but remain asymptomatic. That means they the majority of young people who get it are never tested. The true percentage of deaths per infection is probably much lower than that

However, assuming that you are correct, the fact remains that MANY more than 20 families are going to lose their children to pneumonia, alcohol poisoning, DUI, suicide, and drug overdose. Do we shut down colleges to prevent those other types of student deaths? No. Parents know the risks that their children take when leaving the nest to attend college.

You might argue that those other causes of death are "life-style choices" that the youths make whereas coronavirus is a medical condition. However, 185 15-24 year-olds have died of pneumonia during the same timeframe that 93 have died from coronavirus!

Lock them in the house and shelter them from those many causes of death - or let them go on with their lives. If they don't go to college, are they gonna stay locked up with Mom and Dad? Heck no. Even if the parents try, they're still gonna leave the home or sneak out at night to have sex (like they did in high school). We can't lock a generation away til we find a cure (which might never happen)

Some will die of coronavirus. Unfortunate - but it's unfortunate that any person dies at that age but they still do. The herd is thinning due to coronavirus, but this group is one of the least vulnerable.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Baseball - what about the dugouts?

MLB is talking about spreading players out in the empty stands rather than dugouts.

 

[eebmg]

MLB is talking about spreading players out in the empty stands rather than dugouts.

The game has changed for the worse with HR's and KO's being the only options and I am more than happy to never see a MLB game again. I am getting more than enough BB from the Korean League which actually plays a very fundamentally sound game.

 

[Fishy]

Sooner or later, most will be exposed to this virus one way or the other (just like flu - or the common cold).
Immunity happens ONLY through exposure or a vaccine. Either you become immune (with or without symptoms) or you don't get exposed.
All of this "shutdown" only delays - it doesn't cancel

That's basically it.

At some point, most of us will be exposed to the virus and when a significant number of us have been exposed and develop antibodies, the virus will have trouble gaining purchase in new hosts and will fade. That's how these things run their course.

The intent of 'flatten the curve' was just that - slow the rate of infection so that the medical resources were not overburdened and that everyone who needed care would receive it. At some. point, that morphed into 'stay home forever or you will kill grandma' - you can see that sentiment above and it's misguided.

If you are healthy and not in one of the high-risk groups, the virus poses almost no threat to you. I've had it and my daughter has had it - deeply unpleasant for me, barely a bump in the road for her, not dangerous for either. People here should be resuming their lives and that includes heading to college campuses, camps, basketball games, fairs, beaches, rail trails, malls, whatever.

People. who are in a risk group....can't. They need to continue to take major precautions. And delaying a return to normal for the healthy is not helping here - at-risk people still need to go to grocery stores, gas stations, pharmacies, etc. Suppressing herd immunity to help this group is counter-productive.

 

[uconnfan68]

That's basically it.

At some point, most of us will be exposed to the virus and when a significant number of us have been exposed and develop antibodies, the virus will have trouble gaining purchase in new hosts and will fade. That's how these things run their course.

The intent of 'flatten the curve' was just that - slow the rate of infection so that the medical resources were not overburdened and that everyone who needed care would receive it. At some. point, that morphed into 'stay home forever or you will kill grandma' - you can see that sentiment above and it's misguided.

If you are healthy and not in one of the high-risk groups, the virus poses almost no threat to you. I've had it and my daughter has had it - deeply unpleasant for me, barely a bump in the road for her, not dangerous for either. People here should be resuming their lives and that includes heading to college campuses, camps, basketball games, fairs, beaches, rail trails, malls, whatever.

People. who are in a risk group....can't. They need to continue to take major precautions. And delaying a return to normal for the healthy is not helping here - at-risk people still need to go to grocery stores, gas stations, pharmacies, etc. Suppressing herd immunity to help this group is counter-productive.

Glad you and your daughter are OK now.

 

[reno tony]

I am about to turn 79 years old and I don't think we should shut down just for me. I will take care and self isolate, but I say let the younger people get on with life. Why should I expect a restaurant to remain closed to protect me ? Why should Geno et. al. expect WCBB to remain shut to protect him ?

Do you believe people and business owners should take some of the simple precautions available to protect others? Wearing a mask is simple enough and they are readily available. Washing hands and using sanitizer seems easy. Putting up plexiglass barriers between employees and patrons when possible seems like a minimal expense to keep people safe. I won't patronize a business that doesn't have my safety as a priority in their business practices. I hope you stay safe and if you are unfortunate to pick up the bug I pray you don't share it with someone you love.