OT: Before hitting the "Normal" button...

[CTrefugee]

Yes. Let's just let all of those in college that coach sports, run the programs, all those who teach the courses and man the bursars and other offices, maintain the grounds and generally care for the students contract the disease and die. Who needs them? Heck, let the under 44's run the world while the rest of us get busy dying. Let's ignore the fact that there is a chance that those under 44 who contract this virus may have their lifespans shortened by 20 or 30 years. We're all going to die anyway. What's the fuss? Just pass the pancake syrup.

sounds about right.

 

[veryolddog]

Hello folks, just got back from HEB again and my favorite beverage store, Specs, with six months supply of my favorite beer: Wasatch Polygamy Porter. I drink one a day. I'll cart the bundle back to the ranch. As usual, lots of people out and about. No one dropping like flies, the sky is bright blue, and the temperature is 81 degrees and dry. Think I'll take our German Shepherd puppy, Max, to the park today to play frisbee. He is 8 months and weighs 75 lbs. Going to be a big one. I need the protection at my age, 77. Just his looks alone will be enough. Have a great day doing whatever you are doing.

 

[Viet Vet]

I hear ya. And there are two sides to this argument which I think have already been shared on this thread without belaboring this point. It may come down to an individual decision. I personally am not going to go through life even though what is left of mine is small, in such a manner that after I have dodged bullets, I have to worry about dodging bugs. Can't do it. My own personal perspective in and out of uniform. So have a nice day and enjoy it.

Same team, different uniform. Semper Fi!

 

[huskeynut]

Reality as I see it. There are no experts for COVID-19. Predictions, many doom and gloom, were all over the place and none were even close to reality. Will there be a vaccine, probably but not guaranteed. Will there be a cure, most likely not. We are going to have learn to live with this.

So I have two choices since I'm in the over 65 group - stay in my house because I'm scared/ panicked or get on with my life. We have neighbors who are deathly afraid to leave their houses. And I get it. The wife and I have decided to get on with our life. Florida is opening up. So we are back to going out to dinner at our favorite restaurants. And yes we wear masks from car to the restaurant door. We are waiting for DeSantis to open up phase 2 for Florida. For the two of us, that means our musical groups can get back to rehearsing again after being shut down on 3/16.

Hopefully, we will again get to see our grandsons in CT. The last time we saw them in person was November. Since then its been Facetime. The lock down caused the kids to cancel their vacations down here. They used their vacation money to live on since jobs were cut or lost.

We are adults and we are responsible for our actions. Stay smart, stay safe out there.

 

[Littlemin]

These discussions continue to sensationalize the situation “some level of death is acceptable”, “We’re all going to die anyway”, while ignoring the suffering, misery, yes, and death directly attributable to essentially shutting the country down over ridiculously overstated models by the same ”experts” that keep getting cited even though they are proven wrong again and again.
Roughly about half the deaths from this virus were people most vulnerable and institutionalized, people who were not given priority protection, in fact, apparently the direct opposite occurred in far too many instances.
Those who feel they should quarantine, should do so. Lice provides no guarantees and as a poster stated, we all should take responsibility for our own safety, not live in fear created by “experts” who are anything but.
I will gladly and cheerfully social distance and wear a mask, even though I think the benefits of both are greatly overstated. Do I know that, certainly not, and in reality they are pretty small concessions to make. What I won’t do is stop living,

 

[Monte]

Baseball - what about the dugouts?

In one report that I read, it said that the players not playing would sit in the empty stands, and the manager and coaches would wear masks.

 

[ShmiCO]

As someone recovering from this disease right now, I can affirm it's definitely not the flu. I'm 62, fit, normal weight, no pre-existings, great bloodwork numbers. I even eat an annoyingly healthy diet. But man, covid-19 is rough.

I had some very scary hypoxia for the first few days, then a minor blood clot in my ankle. (As we learn more from autopsies it's looking like blood clots are the cause of almost all covid-19 deaths in folks under 60. The clots form in the lungs and travel from there.) Also, badly inflamed lungs -- they feel like they've been sandblasted from the inside. They're gradually getting better but still sore after almost a month. And my doc says I had a mild case.

Bottom line it's no joke, and I would be horrified to learn I'd transmitted this terrible disease to anyone. It's such small potatoes to wear a mask and stand 6' away.

 

[Plebe]

I dearly miss live sports. Korean baseball just doesn’t cut it for me. But short of a vaccine, I don’t see how sports like football and basketball work right now.

The unknowns are towering over all of the sports landscape right now.

It might be a mistake to underestimate the colossal economic and institutional interests that power big-time sports throughout the world — including big-time college sports in the U.S.

Cold as it may sound, big business is routinely waged with full cognizance of its very real, and sometimes life-and-death, risks and costs. See e.g. the relatively minor (in the big scheme of things) fallout from the revelations and findings related to CTE across many sports, most especially in Big Daddy Football.

 

[Skeets]

ShmiCO, hope you continue to recover. We, and that includes the so-called experts, don't know a heck of a lot about this virus, but a couple of things are obvious. 1) it's wildly contagious. 2) it's still out there despite some indications it may be winding down. 3) it may have a 2 week incubation period where an infected person, or an asymptomatic person can spread the virus without knowing it. 4) it devastates older people or people with underlying conditions. 5) flu vaccines often are only marginally effective and viruses are extremely hard to develop a vaccine for, how many common cold vaccines are there?

Having said all that, I think we should open up as much as safely as possible, protecting older people and people with underlying conditions. Without a vaccine do we just stay closer forever? BYW I'm 65+.

 

[Biff]

And yet another Covid-19 discussion thread. No matter how some people try, many just can't discuss the basketball aspect of this subject without injecting a political slant. Some are better at it than others. Some are really really good at straddling the line. That tends to create a lot of editing and oversight work for us mods to keep the thread alive. Eventually it's just not worth the work.

For now I'll let this thread continue but please and discussion must stay related to the topic of basketball (specifically WCBB). General discussion of covid-19 and it's general geopolitical implications will get this thread moved, deleted or locked.

Thank you.

 

[diggerfoot]

Before this thread gets locked I will share the latest on what has been learned, absent any political slant. The way to gauge the impact in terms of deaths is to look at normal patterns for this time of year and see how that differs. In April there were anywhere from 20-33% more deaths a day than would normally occur, depending on how you combine different datasets. So whether those deaths are due to the elderly going ahead of time or overworked health care workers, directly due to the virus or indirectly via a bacterial infection, heart attack, etc., the impact of the virus during the first wave of the pandemic is roughly in the neighborhood of causing a 25% increase in deaths per day.

Our immune system has a two-tiered response. The first tier is a message sent out to neighboring cells to limit the spread, the replication of the virus, with interferons as the stars. The second tier sends a message farther afield for reinforcements to come and kill the virus, with antibodies as the stars. Most viruses succeed by interfering with the DNA coding for both tiers, the immediate ability to limit replication and the follow-up to kill the virus. Research is indicating that CV-19 is unique in that it does a good job of interfering with the DNA coding for halting replication, but leaves the DNA coding for attacking the virus alone.

We have seen both good and bad consequences of this unique trait of the virus. The bad are the cytokine storms. Our bodies have no problem attacking the virus with antibodies because it does not interfere with that function. However, when the body fails to limit replications sufficiently we have created a war zone, with inflammation taking the metaphorical place of a burned out battlefield as the antibody reinforcements keep on coming to battle the replicating virus.

The good news is that antivirals have been showing promise, for good reason. Antivirals are meant to stop the replication of the virus. The drawback is that some can have nasty side effects. [ ] As long as the antiviral can be administered safely it addresses the heart of the problem better than vaccination, which is intended to boost the killer response.

That's merely some of the knowledge gained through research to date.

 

[diggerfoot]

And yet another Covid-19 discussion thread. No matter how some people try, many just can't discuss the basketball aspect of this subject without injecting a political slant. Some are better at it than others. Some are really really good at straddling the line. That tends to create a lot of editing and oversight work for us mods to keep the thread alive. Eventually it's just not worth the work.

For now I'll let this thread continue but please and discussion must stay related to the topic of basketball (specifically WCBB). General discussion of covid-19 and it's general geopolitical implications will get this thread moved, deleted or locked.

Thank you.

Oops. Sorry. I was crafting my post, left it for awhile, came back and posted, then saw your post. My apologies. Please delete if you see fit.

 

[MSGRET]

I spent 24 years in the Army, saw people die and was lucky not to. On the 4th of June my favorite casino is going to open AND I will be there. I'll follow the guidelines set by the casino and will voluntarily wear a mask and take some gloves, but I'm going to enjoy my table games and machines for the first time in over 2 months. Over 33% of the State of Nevada is unemployed. [ ]

 

[Bigboote]

One of the problems with this is that the "experts" that are dragged out on the netwrks, are sitting on either one side of the aisle or the other. It has become a political pi$$ing contest. They are not sitting with us regular Americans.

Bottom line is that economics will play a big role in how we address this in the future months. Not sure if this is a good thing or not. Oh, and politicians will play a bigger role and we know what they truly care about.

An honest cost-benefit analysis is a good thing, including in the current situation. At one extreme we can do nothing, let the hospitals be overwhelmed, and let the virus thin the herd. At the other extreme is shut everything down till the virus runs its course (a long time), and thin the herd because we've destroyed the world economy. Of course, what we need to do is something in between.
[ ]

 

[dogged1]

Before this thread gets locked I will share the latest on what has been learned, absent any political slant. The way to gauge the impact in terms of deaths is to look at normal patterns for this time of year and see how that differs. In April there were anywhere from 20-33% more deaths a day than would normally occur, depending on how you combine different datasets. So whether those deaths are due to the elderly going ahead of time or overworked health care workers, directly due to the virus or indirectly via a bacterial infection, heart attack, etc., the impact of the virus during the first wave of the pandemic is roughly in the neighborhood of causing a 25% increase in deaths per day.

Our immune system has a two-tiered response. The first tier is a message sent out to neighboring cells to limit the spread, the replication of the virus, with interferons as the stars. The second tier sends a message farther afield for reinforcements to come and kill the virus, with antibodies as the stars. Most viruses succeed by interfering with the DNA coding for both tiers, the immediate ability to limit replication and the follow-up to kill the virus. Research is indicating that CV-19 is unique in that it does a good job of interfering with the DNA coding for halting replication, but leaves the DNA coding for attacking the virus alone.

We have seen both good and bad consequences of this unique trait of the virus. The bad are the cytokine storms. Our bodies have no problem attacking the virus with antibodies because it does not interfere with that function. However, when the body fails to limit replications sufficiently we have created a war zone, with inflammation taking the metaphorical place of a burned out battlefield as the antibody reinforcements keep on coming to battle the replicating virus.

The good news is that antivirals have been showing promise, for good reason. Antivirals are meant to stop the replication of the virus. The drawback is that some can have nasty side effects. HCQ looked great with in vitro trials, but in clinical trials has mixed results because of the side effects. I hope it's not too political to say at this point no one should be self-medicating with HCQ. However, remdesivir has shown promise even in the clinical phase. As long as the antiviral can be administered safely it addresses the heart of the problem better than vaccination, which is intended to boost the killer response.

That's merely some of the knowledge gained through research to date.

Thank you, I appreciate a thoughtful fact based, informative and non political post. 1,000 likes.

 

[PacoSwede]

biff, why don't you just close it. some folks are just exposing their crap, and there other are places to do that.

though it at times amuses, its mostly reminds of our lousy time.

 

[oldude]

The unknowns are towering over all of the sports landscape right now.

It might be a mistake to underestimate the colossal economic and institutional interests that power big-time sports throughout the world — including big-time college sports in the U.S.

Cold as it may sound, big business is routinely waged with full cognizance of its very real, and sometimes life-and-death, risks and costs. See e.g. the relatively minor (in the big scheme of things) fallout from the revelations and findings related to CTE across many sports, most especially in Big Daddy Football.

While there are many discussions going on about reopening in both professional and college sports, I think everyone is waiting to see what the other guy is going to do first, before taking the first step. At the college level, there is still a great deal of uncertainty about which schools will reopen for on campus classes and what the fall semester will look like. As far as I know, there isn’t a single professional or college team that has definitively announced their intention to play ball yet.

I would never underestimate the economic impact of big time sports, but it should be noted that just about all sports are talking about playing games without fans, so whatever the economic impact, it will certainly be substantially less if teams rely solely on broadcast revenues to pay the bills.

 

[Steelerone]

I had a very dear friend. He spent 25 years in the USMC. Two purple hearts, many decorations for valor, and strong like a bull. He knew fear but I do not think that he was afraid any one day of his life. He was hit by a car walking across the street and killed.
[/QUO VOD, want to make God laugh? Tell him about what you've planned for your life.

 

[Steelerone]

I’m 75. Living life without inviting others to put theirs at risk seems like an easy choice. At my age, not being able to readily get on a plane to see my son and grandchildren a six hour flight away is much more of an issue than hoops. I hope the sport can be played because I love it, but what is, is.

So true Conenzone. We have already missed our Grandson's graduation which we had started thinking about when he entered his freshman year. And they shut down the Great Lakes so we were unable to attend another Grandson' s graduation from Basic Training which we had planned for. But the bottom line is that they are safe and when all is said and done that is the only thing that counts. Hopefully in the not too distant future you can make that flight.

 

[Steelerone]

Screw everyone else, got it.

I didn't hear him say that. What I heard him say was that if we choose to live our life in fear it won't be much of a life.

 

[Steelerone]

After looking at that chart, all I can say is: I am glad that I am not in the over 85 year old group. Look, as I type this I am in my second home in the San Antonio, Texas area visiting my son, his wife and my grandson. You cannot keep my wife away from her grandson. A few days ago I went to the local grocery store to pick up a few items, HEB. I went in at 9:00 AM in the morning. The place was packed, no masks and people buying their usual groceries with the store fully shelved with all of their items. It's like nothing happened. The only reference to social distancing was 6 ft marked spots on the floor for checkout, single entrance single exit, and plexi panels between you and the checkout person; and no masks. Life goes on. Traffic on the road just like always. This does not bother the Texans. My point is that you cannot live your life in a cocoon. If you do, it is your choice. Oh yes, one more point, there was plenty of Charmin.

As I think about this, both my parents, may they rest in peace, were born in 1909, and lived as children through the Spanish flu, Scarlet fever, and other crap of the day where they had other health issues and no vaccines. My Mom was born in Hartford, and my Dad was born in Meriden. Me: Albuquerque, when it was just a quiet community and drive thru on US 40. They survived.

Charmin, you found Charmin. I recently hired a private detective agency to try to find some. The results - they found me five rolls one one-ply.

 

[UcMiami]

There is a pretty simple comparison out there in the world for what social distancing means - Norway reacted quickly closing down everything and Sweden has left most everything open. Sweden populations is 10.3M and Norway is 5.3M. Sweden has to date 35,700 cases and 4,266 deaths, Norway has 8,400 cases and 236 deaths.
Sweden:
Population 2X
Cases 4X
Deaths 18X
So 2 times as many cases per 100,000 population and 9 times as many deaths.

And the latest information regarding 'herd immunity' in Sweden is that they are not likely to reach that level prior to the end of the year if then. The herd immunity was the rationale for not shutting down.

US state most comparable in population to Sweden = North Carolina with 10.5M, cases = 25,700, deaths = 876 and Georgia 10.6M, 45,000, 1963. Population close to Norway - South Carolina 5.1M, 10,800, 470 and Minn 5.6M, 22,900, 977.

If we use those numbers for the US which has 328M people it would be frightening. Looking at NYC, Long Island and the suburbs out into NJ and CT where exposure was early and response was slow we get an idea what the numbers could be nationally.

 

[visitingcock]

This is such an insidious disease that can be transmitted asymptomatically. Unless you test every player, coach and trainer before every game, every practice and every bus or plane trip there is the chance that someone can catch and spread the virus. College campuses are a particular concern. Students live in close quarters, eat in cafeterias and attend classes together, all of which increase the potential for exposure to the disease.

I dearly miss live sports. Korean baseball just doesn’t cut it for me. But short of a vaccine, I don’t see how sports like football and basketball work right now.

From your name, I assume that you, like I, grew up in the age of mumps, measles, etc.

A few kids died. The rest of us got sick, developed immunity, and went on with our lives. These kids need to move forward with their lives. Will some die? Yeah. Probably about as many as will die from alcohol overdose. Not as many as die from DUI accidents. Nowhere near as many who will commit suicide!

According to the CDC 93 deaths have occurred among 15-24 years old due to coronavirus. (30 from flu. 185 from pneumonia not combined with coronavirus)

Wonder how many have died from drug and alcohol overdoses and DUI?
Approximately 2,200 alcohol-poisoning deaths occur each year in the United States. 5 percent of alcohol poison deaths happen to people aged 15–24. (That's 110). The Scary Truth About Teen Alcohol Poisoning | Newport Academy
In 2015, 4,235 youth ages 15-24 died from a drug-related overdose; over half of these were attributable to opioids. The health consequences of opioid misuse affect a much larger number of people. Opioids and Adolescents

Eight teens die every day in DUI crashes. At all levels of blood alcohol content (BAC), the risk of being in a car crash is greater for teens than for older drivers. ( That's 2,820 deaths per year) Teen Driving Crash and Fatality Stats | Teens | Survive - Stop Yourself. Stop a Friend.

Teenage suicide in the United States. The suicide rate in the United States remains comparatively high for the 15 to 24 age group with 5,079 suicides in this age range in 2014, making it the second leading cause of death for that age range.

Would I be concerned about my child cathcing coronavirus in college? Yeah, somewhat. But there are much bigger concerns out there.

 

[dogged1]

There is a pretty simple comparison out there in the world for what social distancing means - Norway reacted quickly closing down everything and Sweden has left most everything open. Sweden populations is 10.3M and Norway is 5.3M. Sweden has to date 35,700 cases and 4,266 deaths, Norway has 8,400 cases and 236 deaths.
Sweden:
Population 2X
Cases 4X
Deaths 18X
So 2 times as many cases per 100,000 population and 9 times as many deaths.

And the latest information regarding 'herd immunity' in Sweden is that they are not likely to reach that level prior to the end of the year if then. The herd immunity was the rationale for not shutting down.

US state most comparable in population to Sweden = North Carolina with 10.5M, cases = 25,700, deaths = 876 and Georgia 10.6M, 45,000, 1963. Population close to Norway - South Carolina 5.1M, 10,800, 470 and Minn 5.6M, 22,900, 977.

If we use those numbers for the US which has 328M people it would be frightening. Looking at NYC, Long Island and the suburbs out into NJ and CT where exposure was early and response was slow we get an idea what the numbers could be nationally.

OK, that comparison shows that Norway took the right path and Sweden didn't. Or does it?
In the short term Norway is better off. They have flattened the curve.
But what if there is no vaccine 6 months from now?
Then, if herd immunity is real for this virus, Sweden's numbers will taper off, while Norway's numbers will continue at a slow constant pace. Eventually, proportionate to their populations, the numbers should match.
No?

 

[Zinethar]

My college sports prediction given what I see in the current environment everyday: College sports will continue with restriction placed on fall sports (no fans at games etc). College athletes will be on campus in the near future but will remain isolated from general population as much as possible (in many colleges they already were). Precautions will be taken as is felt necessary by the administration of each school in the short term. There will be basketball (college) this upcoming season. It likely won't look normal but will happen. A couple NCAA WBB will have greater risk (UConn, ND, SC,etc) because of great attendance. Most will not notice much change (unfortunately). it is what it is. The mood in the country is swinging heavily and steadily in that direction like it or not. Hopefully by season start there will be a tested vaccine and better understood treatment.