BE Commissioner: Expansion Possible Before 2024

[ConnHuskBask]

What happens to UConn when Calhoun retires, Duke when K retires, Nova when Wright retires?

Would you add Gonzaga if Few announced he was retiring at the end of the season?

 

[SubbaBub]

People have an awful lot of confidence in Gonzaga going forward - feels risky to me.

It’s a small school with 4,900 undergrads in a state where everyone is a Washington or Washington State fan. Few is 60 years old….one bad hire kills Gonzaga dead.

So, Butler.

There are zero viable BB programs that would add value to the BE. Gonzaga included. It's fine to want to add reliable tourney teams but we currently have every non-P5 programs north of DC and east of Chicago that fits any workable definition of viable which is defined as an increase in per team media money that doesn't come with a bunch of hassles, including implosion of the BB program in question.

If you told me we could add Syracuse today, I'd say no. They are so far along on their journey to post-Boeheim oblivion that they might arrive while Boeheim is still around. In contrast, Nova will be fine because of Philly. Cuse will soon be fighting with Iona and losing so long as Pitino decides to hang around.

 

[CL82]

What happens to UConn when Calhoun retires, Duke when K retires, Nova when Wright retires?

I think the point is that Gonzaga is as big a geographic outlier as you can have and still be in the continental United States. Perhaps that’s tolerable while they are a decent basketball team. It would not be after they are not.

 

[superjohn]

I think the point is that Gonzaga is as big a geographic outlier as you can have and still be in the continental United States. Perhaps that’s tolerable while they are a decent basketball team. It would not be after they are not.

I think they're better than a decent basketball team and I think they will remain better than a decent basketball team especially with Big East membership. Geography doesn't matter anymore we're way past that point. Other conferences are flying across the country, Big East can certainly have one team that's all the way across the country if it makes the basketball in the conference better and brings a better payday.

 

[superjohn]

Would you add Gonzaga if Few announced he was retiring at the end of the season?

Yes but he's not retiring at the end of the season.

 

[CL82]

I think they're better than a decent basketball team and I think they will remain better than a decent basketball team especially with Big East membership. Geography doesn't matter anymore we're way past that point. Other conferences are flying across the country, Big East can certainly have one team that's all the way across the country if it makes the basketball in the conference better and brings a better payday.

Disagree regarding geography. Do you remember have the coaches and players used to talk about the grind of being in the American? Of course it’s worse for Gonzaga everyone else. It would have to be a very significant payday increase to make it worthwhile.

If I were them, with all the instability in the Pac 12, I would hold tight and see what the future holds. There is likely to be a more geographically sensible alternative for them.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Yes but he's not retiring at the end of the season.

If you're reasoning is get the most bang for your buck over the next 5 or so years, then so be it. I can understand that position and you may be right given how in flux realignment has still proven to be.

The moment Few steps out of that gym they become just another program that had great success under one coach. Almost nobody outside of Kentucky, Kansas, and UNC (remains to be be seen with Duke) can match that consistent excellence through coaching changes.

 

[NJHusky]

What happens to UConn when Calhoun retires, Duke when K retires, Nova when Wright retires

What happens to UConn when Calhoun retires, Duke when K retires, Nova when Wright retires?

When Wright retired UConn still has a 3.5 hr drive to Philly if they r good or bad.. If Gonzaga flops u still have. 5 hour charter flight…. For every sport

 

[NJHusky]

I think they're better than a decent basketball team and I think they will remain better than a decent basketball team especially with Big East membership. Geography doesn't matter anymore we're way past that point. Other conferences are flying across the country, Big East can certainly have one team that's all the way across the country if it makes the basketball in the conference better and brings a better payday.

I don’t think u can financially compare UCLA or USC playing B1G schools to Gonzaga playing BE schools. The odds of Gonzaga crashing after Few are a lot higher than USC falling off the sports map. Them joining the b1g added 30 mill per team. How much is Gonzaga adding to each big east Team?

 

[CL82]

I don’t think u can financially compare UCLA or USC playing B1G schools to Gonzaga playing BE schools. The odds of Gonzaga crashing after Few are a lot higher than USC falling off the sports map. Them joining the b1g added 30 mill per team. How much is Gonzaga adding to each big east Team?

Especially on a net basis after factoring in the additional travel costs.

 

[businesslawyer]

With the SEC and B1G going to 16 teams and likely getting 8+ bids a year going forward, even if we get 6/11 teams in the field every year, we are disadvantaged perception-wise nationally by only getting six teams in even if our league may actually be better. That is why at a minimum you need to add Gonzaga so that we can get 7 bids a year consistently.

Utterly bizarre take. You really think anyone whose perception matters is so friggin stupid that they will conclude that a large conference that gets half its members in is better than a not so large conference that gets half its members in? Please.

 

[pepband99]

Utterly bizarre take. You really think anyone whose perception matters is so friggin stupid that they will conclude that a large conference that gets half its members in is better than a not so large conference that gets half its members in? Please.

Exhibit A, counselor: The A&W Third Pounder Failed Because People Didn’t Understand Fractions

Judgement - people are stupid.

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

I would love Gonzaga, wonder what Mark Few’s opinion is on a big east move though? Obviously, we would need Mark Few to invite Gonzaga, so he definitely has a big say in all of this. From his standpoint, I could see him not wanting to move. I mean, he’s built up a national powerhouse in that conference and has been able to do so consistently. Who knows what moving to the big east will do (ie. Wichita state to the AAC)? And does he personally want to travel that much? I guess he already assumedly travels to Europe many times a year and it’s on the way, but regardless even more travel is never what anyone wants.

 

[Sole]

Can’t see how Gonzaga would increase are media deal much to offset the travel expenses and hassle of flying cross country… we have a nice league right now.. hopefully we make more money next tv contract

 

[tzznandrew]

Good points. But what happens when Few retires? I don’t recall anyone talking about them 15 years ago. Remember when DePaul was a better bball school than Gonzaga?

Then you have a bad memory. They have been relevant nationally since 1999.

That doesn't mean the BE should add them, to be clear, but they've been very good for a very long time.

 

[Jbirdp5]

You can certainly make the argument it makes sense for the big east, it’s one trip for each team out west, no big deal. Gonzaga can probably get similar money and stay more geographically stable in a number of other leagues. I don’t see the pull for them to say yes. Mark few getting older makes me think they would be less interested in such rigorous travel.

 

[superjohn]

If you're reasoning is get the most bang for your buck over the next 5 or so years, then so be it. I can understand that position and you may be right given how in flux realignment has still proven to be.

The moment Few steps out of that gym they become just another program that had great success under one coach. Almost nobody outside of Kentucky, Kansas, and UNC (remains to be be seen with Duke) can match that consistent excellence through coaching changes.

I'm not saying they're assured to remain a top 5 program, I can't really say that for any program who loses a top coach but I don't think they'll just become a regular program or an also ran when Few retires. I also don't see that for UConn, Duke, Cuse...

 

[superjohn]

I don’t think u can financially compare UCLA or USC playing B1G schools to Gonzaga playing BE schools. The odds of Gonzaga crashing after Few are a lot higher than USC falling off the sports map. Them joining the b1g added 30 mill per team. How much is Gonzaga adding to each big east Team?

If I was comparing Big East money to Big 10 money I would've compared Big East money to Big 10 money.

 

[MJ1]

I would love Gonzaga, wonder what Mark Few’s opinion is on a big east move though? Obviously, we would need Mark Few to invite Gonzaga, so he definitely has a big say in all of this. From his standpoint, I could see him not wanting to move. I mean, he’s built up a national powerhouse in that conference and has been able to do so consistently. Who knows what moving to the big east will do (ie. Wichita state to the AAC)? And does he personally want to travel that much? I guess he already assumedly travels to Europe many times a year and it’s on the way, but regardless even more travel is never what anyone wants.

If Gonzaga gets paid well enough, Few will be on board. It all about the money!

 

[NJHusky]

If I was comparing Big East money to Big 10 money I would've compared Big East money to Big 10 money.

You were talking about schools flying across the country. They are doing it for a reason. $$$. They aren’t doing it for points. How much extra $$ does Gonzaga add to the BE? I don’t think it’s enough to justify the risk

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I'm not saying they're assured to remain a top 5 program, I can't really say that for any program who loses a top coach but I don't think they'll just become a regular program or an also ran when Few retires. I also don't see that for UConn, Duke, Cuse...

I guess it all depends on what would define "success" for Gonzaga post Few?

I think an very optimistic expectation could be something like Xavier's last decade: 6 NCAAs, 3 S16 and an Elite 8.

Which is good - but is that worth expanding for an extreme geographic outlier?

 

[Chief00]

Like it or not, the Big East is inherently in reaction mode. Whatever, significant changes that do happen will be the dominoes effect of schools leaving the ACC for SEC or Big 10.

 

[JonnyRI]

Good points. But what happens when Few retires? I don’t recall anyone talking about them 15 years ago. Remember when DePaul was a better bball school than Gonzaga?

Not sure about that. Not at all.

I forget the exact details, but pretty sure it was winter of 2006? And I was up at like 3am or something like that while serving in Iraq to watch UConn play the Zags. Don’t think I would have done the same to play DePaul.

And DePaul was a better bball school when ?

The 80’s????

 

[pj]

BTW. Stanford and Gonzaga all sports and Stanford goes indy in football. If there is no USC, UCLA< Oregon and Washington, what does Stanford stay in a western conference? Their peer institutions have gone east.

If Stanford joins the Big East, you give them any west coast partner they want.

Gonzaga alone doesn't thrill me. No guarantee they stay top tier in basketball, and then you could have a Depaul 3000 miles away in eastern Washington.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Like it or not, the Big East is inherently in reaction mode. Whatever, significant changes that do happen will be the dominoes effect of schools leaving the ACC for SEC or Big 10.

Reaction mode? I wouldn’t call it that.

Big East is a basketball league. No one is making basketball moves.

If big east does anything, it absolutely has zero affect on what any other league is doing. No one is scared of the big east. Or threatened by big east. It isnt even a home for anyone but non-football powers .

 

[Fishy]

I agree, it would obviously pay short term dividends, but I worry about the long term addition of Gonzaga. The previous comparisons of schools like Duke and UConn before Coach K and Calhoun don't hold for me. Duke was good before Coach K, but Coach K was there for so long with so much success that he made Duke a massive brand. They will continue to be successful after him because of that brand. Duke probably has the largest following of non-alums of any college basketball team. UConn is a major public university in the northeast. It doesn't need Calhoun to draw eyes and build success.

Gonzaga is neither of these. Few has not elevated them to the level of Duke, and is unlikely to. I have met one Gonzaga fan in my life. People watch them because of their present success, but would not continue to watch them if they drop off after Few. Also, like Fishy said, Washington and Washington State are the large public universities in Washington. Gonzaga doesn't have that benefit that UConn has beyond Calhoun.

Also, Duke has not played a game without K yet.

Georgetown feels like a better comparison. Georgetown made some bad hires and simply cannot get off the mat - it would be even harder for Gonzaga. And I am not convinced that the next guy they hire is going to magically have Few’s remarkable ability to build a roster from transfers.

So if they do fall, you basically have a poor man’s Georgetown 3,000 miles from Storrs…yay.

I feel like there must someone at the Big East thinking the same thing…if Gonzaga is the answer, sooner is much better than later. There’s no reason to wait on it unless there’s no match to be made for one side or the other.

 

[Fishy]

If Stanford joins the Big East, you give them any west coast partner they want.

Gonzaga alone doesn't thrill me. No guarantee they stay top tier in basketball, and then you could have a Depaul 3000 miles away in eastern Washington.

There’s no chance Stanford would do this, but if they actually wanted to, they can bring Lake Tahoe Community College with them.

 

[Travelman6]

If BE went to 14 I guess they could split it into 2 divisions. Play your 6 division mates twice (12 games) + other division once each for 7, getting to 19, and then rotate, on a 7 years basis what team in the other division you play a 2nd time for the final 20th game. Add Gonzaga for the 12th and find two more appealing additions. Then you can pretty steadily assure yourself of 7 and perhaps, in a good year, 8 teams making the tournament and more or less keeping up with the B10, SEC, and ACC as far as how many teams they put in (conference perception), which is what you want as another poster mentioned + it increases the odds that one team goes deep (conference perception).

Go to 13 in one big division and rotate, every other year, 6 teams played twice, 6 teams played once for an 18-game schedule. Similar if they just added one (Zags or otherwise), one big conference, 9 teams x 2 games + 2 teams x 1 game = 20 games.

 

[auror]

Also, Duke has not played a game without K yet.

Georgetown feels like a better comparison. Georgetown made some bad hires and simply cannot get off the mat - it would be even harder for Gonzaga. And I am not convinced that the next guy they hire is going to magically have Few’s remarkable ability to build a roster from transfers.

So if they do fall, you basically have a poor man’s Georgetown 3,000 miles from Storrs…yay.

I feel like there must someone at the Big East thinking the same thing…if Gonzaga is the answer, sooner is much better than later. There’s no reason to wait on it unless there’s no match to be made for one side or the other.

Georgetown could get off the mat immediately (or 2 years max -- similar timetable to Hurley rebuild for us) if they hired a coach with literally any sort of competency, which they could easily do thanks to their prestige, location, and resources. But they refuse to do so, because famous alumni reasons. They're only stuck by their own designs. And still, they recruited a 5* last year and brought in a really nice transfer class this year after going 0-18 (to be fair partially due to famous alumni reasons).

Basketball school NIL is a real thing, and Gonzaga is THE basketball school in the Pacific Northwest. Timme is making >$500k this year in NIL. KenPom subscriber "favorite programs" is a useful proxy for hardcore (online biased) fanbase engagement. They're currently 10th (we're 14th), tied with Villanova and Virginia. That would go down in a post-Few world as it likely includes some neutral frontrunners, but the comparison above made to Xavier which is 28th seems reasonable as a somewhat bad but not worst case scenario (X has missed 4 straight tournaments after getting a 1 seed). Gonzaga has a lot of really passionate fans that have been grown over the last 20 years and will continue to grow over the next Few years. It takes a lot to erode that completely. They likely can sustain 1 post-Few coach failure if they nail the 2nd, similar to how Ollie wounded but did not kill us.

Gonzaga will also have a much easier time in a post-Few world if they have the prestige and recruiting/resources boost of being in the Big East. In that way, the Big East invite itself is a buffer against decline (in a way that the AAC is not a strong enough league to do so for Wichita St). That's one reason why the Xavier comp makes a lot of sense.

 

[noeynox]

Exhibit A, counselor: The A&W Third Pounder Failed Because People Didn’t Understand Fractions

Judgement - people are stupid.

Great read.