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BE Commissioner: Expansion Possible Before 2024

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1st, I'm a Husky Ice Hockey & Football Fan above Basketball, and was horrified when UConn rejoined the Big East, as it was a signal that they could be abandoning Football, but given the absolute dumpster fire that the AAC is now, it was a good move in retrospect. That said, IMHO, any conference addition that does not add geographic rivalries doesn't make sense to me. I watch as many games as I can, and quite frankly, have no interest in a Wednesday night game at Gonzaga that starts at 11:00 PM. So, that said, other than the potential of more schools going Independent in football, who would be good Non BCS fits?
 
Iceman03 said:
1st, I'm a Husky Ice Hockey & Football Fan above Basketball, and was horrified when UConn rejoined the Big East, as it was a signal that they could be abandoning Football, but given the absolute dumpster fire that the AAC is now, it was a good move in retrospect. That said, IMHO, any conference addition that does not add geographic rivalries doesn't make sense to me. I watch as many games as I can, and quite frankly, have no interest in a Wednesday night game at Gonzaga that starts at 11:00 PM. So, that said, other than the potential of more schools going Independent in football, who would be good Non BCS fits?
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No one. Schools like Dayton and Saint Louis are probably two of the closest, but they don't have enough sustained success to be Big East level. Xavier would also potentially block Dayton.

I would say maybe Dayton in 5-10 years if they can keep themselves in and around the top 25.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Reaction mode? I wouldn’t call it that.

Big East is a basketball league. No one is making basketball moves.

If big east does anything, it absolutely has zero affect on what any other league is doing. No one is scared of the big east. Or threatened by big east. It isnt even a home for anyone but non-football powers .
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Ouch. That was a tough “like“ but I couldn’t agree more. The thing that you didn’t say, but was implied, is the Big East media deal is rapidly becoming a de facto rounding error compared to where the big two is going. It is barely meaningful money.

It isn’t really so much that football schools don’t care about basketball but more of that under the current circumstances basketball doesn’t make significant money. If the P2 decides to start its own tournament then being “a basketball school” or being a basketball only conference will have more value.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I guess it all depends on what would define "success" for Gonzaga post Few?

I think an very optimistic expectation could be something like Xavier's last decade: 6 NCAAs, 3 S16 and an Elite 8.

Which is good - but is that worth expanding for an extreme geographic outlier?
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Yes. If you told me Gonzaga becomes Xavier I would sign up for them joining the Big East tomorrow
 
auror said:
It takes a lot to erode that completely.
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Probably less than you think. UConn football went from being a two time biggest champion that went to the Fiesta Bowl to being one of the worst programs in college football in less than a decade. Sports fans have a very short memory. Add to that the fact that Gonzaga plays at home games after everyone has gone to bed on the East Coast and it is a recipe for a rapid decline.
 
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auror said:
Georgetown could get off the mat immediately (or 2 years max -- similar timetable to Hurley rebuild for us) if they hired a coach with literally any sort of competency, which they could easily do thanks to their prestige, location, and resources. But they refuse to do so, because famous alumni reasons. They're only stuck by their own designs. And still, they recruited a 5* last year and brought in a really nice transfer class this year after going 0-18 (to be fair partially due to famous alumni reasons).
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Sometimes you get off the mat, sometimes you become the mat. Older fans will remember when DePaul was a legitimate Top 10 team every year in the 1980's--they slipped and never recovered.

Georgetown was ranked as high as #5 in 2013 and averaged 13,178 a game in conference. They've won one post-season game since 2014 and announced an average of 5,326 a game last year. The season opener in two weeks is free admission for everyone and various free tickets are available for as many as seven home games. They're not giving away tickets at Creighton.

That 5* mentioned above walked after one season and is playing in the G-League. Only one player on the roster has been there more than two consecutive seasons.

Yet very little is written about it. For years, reporters didn't talk about about the slide out of respect and/or fear of John Thompson. Now, they don't care.
 
navery12 said:
Yes. If you told me Gonzaga becomes Xavier I would sign up for them joining the Big East tomorrow
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I don't necessarily disagree - if that was going to be the case.

I'm just thinking how quickly they could become a Georgetown, Memphis, Pitt, or Butler.

I'm anti expansion in theory but if the argument is hey Few has another decade last max this tv deal out and see what happens then so be it.
 
Much has changed since DePaul was a factor in College Basketball, their history is strangely similar to ours. Ray Meyer retired, and Just As Joey was succeeding him, the major conferences sucked up most of the independents. DePaul had the bad luck of landing in what was I believe called the Metro at the time, which was a weak sister compared with the rest of the conferences. Same as Old Big East dies, Calhoun Retires, we wind up in the sad sack AAC, and Ollie couldn't pick up all of the pieces. Same with Georgetown, NBE is nothing close to OBE, so it's much harder to recruit top talent.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I don't necessarily disagree - if that was going to be the case.

I'm just thinking how quickly they could become a Georgetown, Memphis, Pitt, or Butler.

I'm anti expansion in theory but if the argument is hey Few has another decade last max this tv deal out and see what happens then so be it.
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I don't get all these posts of what they could become. Sure, they could start sucking if they make a horrible hire. That goes for just about every program who isn't UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke. Their chances of sucking are greatly reduced if they are a part of the Big East.
 
JonnyRI said:
Not sure about that. Not at all.

I forget the exact details, but pretty sure it was winter of 2006? And I was up at like 3am or something like that while serving in Iraq to watch UConn play the Zags. Don’t think I would have done the same to play DePaul.

And DePaul was a better bball school when ?

The 80’s????
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Yes in the 80s. And they have been bad for 20 years. My point is that things change and you can’t just look at their current situation. This isn’t like getting married. You are stuck with a conf mate until they decide to leave. What happens if Gonzaga falls off a cliff after Few (which isn’t unreasonable IMO..see Butler post Stevens)? My point is that geography is a major negative…you need a much bigger long term positive to make up for that.
 
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superjohn said:
I don't get all these posts of what they could become. Sure, they could start sucking if they make a horrible hire. That goes for just about every program who isn't UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke. Their chances of sucking are greatly reduced if they are a part of the Big East.
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That’s sure been the case with Butler post Stevens
 
auror said:
Georgetown could get off the mat immediately (or 2 years max -- similar timetable to Hurley rebuild for us) if they hired a coach with literally any sort of competency, which they could easily do thanks to their prestige, location, and resources. But they refuse to do so, because famous alumni reasons. They're only stuck by their own designs. And still, they recruited a 5* last year and brought in a really nice transfer class this year after going 0-18 (to be fair partially due to famous alumni reasons).

Basketball school NIL is a real thing, and Gonzaga is THE basketball school in the Pacific Northwest. Timme is making >$500k this year in NIL. KenPom subscriber "favorite programs" is a useful proxy for hardcore (online biased) fanbase engagement. They're currently 10th (we're 14th), tied with Villanova and Virginia. That would go down in a post-Few world as it likely includes some neutral frontrunners, but the comparison above made to Xavier which is 28th seems reasonable as a somewhat bad but not worst case scenario (X has missed 4 straight tournaments after getting a 1 seed). Gonzaga has a lot of really passionate fans that have been grown over the last 20 years and will continue to grow over the next Few years. It takes a lot to erode that completely. They likely can sustain 1 post-Few coach failure if they nail the 2nd, similar to how Ollie wounded but did not kill us.

Gonzaga will also have a much easier time in a post-Few world if they have the prestige and recruiting/resources boost of being in the Big East. In that way, the Big East invite itself is a buffer against decline (in a way that the AAC is not a strong enough league to do so for Wichita St). That's one reason why the Xavier comp makes a lot of sense.
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This is the best pro-Gonzaga argument I've seen on this board. Ultimately, if FOX wants Gonzaga in the BE, Gonzaga will be in the BE.

With that said, I don't think you can overlook the travel issues -- they need to add someone else nearby (like USC bringing along UCLA) but there is no one else. The whole "travel buddy" format works well in scheduling -- Current P12 does it (Arizona/ASU together, USC/UCLA, Cal/Stanford, etc). playing on a Wed/Thurs and Sat/Sun. UConn/PC, St. John's/Hall, Nova/Gtown, Marquette/DePaul, Xavier/Butler -- Creighton is the odd man out (people have mentioned Wichita State, but hard pass).

If you can find someone that's close enough to Zaga (and Creighton) I'm all for it. Omaha to Spokane is 1300 miles, not feasible as travel buddies.
 
NJHusky said:
That’s sure been the case with Butler post Stevens
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Holtmann was good, I don't think anyone expected them to continue going to national title games, those were a fluke. I expect Thad Matta will get them back to making the tournament.
 
Iceman03 said:
1st, I'm a Husky Ice Hockey & Football Fan above Basketball, and was horrified when UConn rejoined the Big East, as it was a signal that they could be abandoning Football, but given the absolute dumpster fire that the AAC is now, it was a good move in retrospect. That said, IMHO, any conference addition that does not add geographic rivalries doesn't make sense to me. I watch as many games as I can, and quite frankly, have no interest in a Wednesday night game at Gonzaga that starts at 11:00 PM. So, that said, other than the potential of more schools going Independent in football, who would be good Non BCS fits?
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Temple if Villanova would let them in.
 
NJHusky said:
That’s sure been the case with Butler post Stevens
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That's not even really true. They've had a rough last few years but they made 4 straight NCAA tournaments after Stevens left from 2015 to 2018 and were a top 25 and likely tournament team again in 2020 before the tournament was canceled
 
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shizzle787 said:
Temple if Villanova would let them in.
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How does this help anyone? Temple is not a national brand. They don't move the needle whatsoever. They were good from 1984-2001. Had a nice little run in the A-10 under Fran. Have been irrelevant for the last 10 years in the AAC.
 
navery12 said:
That's not even really true. They've had a rough last few years but they made 4 straight NCAA tournaments after Stevens left from 2015 to 2018 and were a top 25 and likely tournament team again in 2020 before the tournament was canceled
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They were definitely going to make the tournament the Covid year. That really hurt some Big East programs/coaches.
 
navery12 said:
That's not even really true. They've had a rough last few years but they made 4 straight NCAA tournaments after Stevens left from 2015 to 2018 and were a top 25 and likely tournament team again in 2020 before the tournament was canceled
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Depends on how you define success. They’ve been to the sweet 16 once since Stevens left. That’s nearly 10 years
 
JohnFSilver said:
Why is Gonzaga a nightmare? I think you can work it in sports, leagues are national. UCLA is in the Big Ten and plays Penn State. Geography is no longer an issue anymore, it is are the institutions of like minds? A West Coast Catholic school is perfect.
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It’s a nightmare even for basketball. The last thing I want is a UConn vs Gonzaga road game starting at 10:00 PM or later. The west coast sucks for sports. I would rather never have an opponent west of the central time zone. Of course it’s worse still for actual travel among the other sports programs. Gonzaga doesn’t move the needle them way people think. It wouldn’t add any TV money beyond the cost of paying them a share.
 
NJHusky said:
Depends on how you define success. They’ve been to the sweet 16 once since Stevens left. That’s nearly 10 years
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That's definitely not success for UConn, so wouldn't be happy with that for this team. But for a team that's somewhere around the 8th or 9th best BE team that's still really successful and was absolutely worth adding
 
NJHusky said:
I don’t think u can financially compare UCLA or USC playing B1G schools to Gonzaga playing BE schools. The odds of Gonzaga crashing after Few are a lot higher than USC falling off the sports map. Them joining the b1g added 30 mill per team. How much is Gonzaga adding to each big east Team?
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From Uconn's perspective which is rebuilding it's national brand with west coast recruits the tv exposure out there can only help. Perhaps add a home/away game with say UCLA on west coast trips?
and just think about this: Just imagine having Carrot Top as an opponent again!

1666377011524.png
 
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superjohn said:
I don't get all these posts of what they could become. Sure, they could start sucking if they make a horrible hire. That goes for just about every program who isn't UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke. Their chances of sucking are greatly reduced if they are a part of the Big East.
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You don't get the apprehension of adding a team in Eastern Washington to the Big East who's run to prominence has been under one generational head coach?

I'm not sure being in the Big East is as huge of a selling point as you say either - that's an outrageous amount of travel to want to sign up for as a HS recruit.
 
noeynox said:
Great read.
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That article is very revealing. I remember when "new math" (Venn diagrams etc>) was introduced in the late 1960's. It was sold as "it's not so important that you get the right answer but that you understand "how math works". The other thing the article reminded me of is when I go to the deli in the supermarket and ask for a third of a pound of cheese or ham I often get the strangest looks so I say you know............ .333 or 1/3 and still the look so I say in between half pound and quarter pound and then the light goes on. Strange.
 
NJHusky said:
Depends on how you define success. They’ve been to the sweet 16 once since Stevens left. That’s nearly 10 years
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It's been 9 seasons since Stevens left with 8 NCAA tournaments, they won 5 tournament games during that time period and would've been an NCAA team the Covid year with no tournament. During that same time UConn won 7 tournament games, 6 of them all happened to be in the same season. Uconn would've missed the NCAA tournament in the Covid year unless they won the AAC tournament.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
You don't get the apprehension of adding a team in Eastern Washington to the Big East who's run to prominence has been under one generational head coach?

I'm not sure being in the Big East is as huge of a selling point as you say either - that's an outrageous amount of travel to want to sign up for as a HS recruit.
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No I don't get the apprehension about adding one of the best teams in the country and I couldn't care less about travel. UConn and the other Big East teams would travel out there once per season. The only ones who should look at the travel is Gonzaga and the costs of that would be more than taken care of with the money bump.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
You don't get the apprehension of adding a team in Eastern Washington to the Big East who's run to prominence has been under one generational head coach?

I'm not sure being in the Big East is as huge of a selling point as you say either - that's an outrageous amount of travel to want to sign up for as a HS recruit.
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Not if they're an East Coast recruit, which would open things up for them...besides, would a recruit (from anywhere) rather play UConn/Nova/Creighton or Pacific/Pepperdine/Portland. The top players on the team last year were from Texas, Ontario/Florida, Minnesota, Virginia, etc. They recruit nationally (and internationally).

If you have to get on a plane, it's not that much of a difference to go 3 hours vs 5 hours at the end of the day. The time zone changes would be the biggest factor. But if you do 2 road games at a time (UConn-PC, St. John's/Hall, etc.), it lessens the burden.
 
superjohn said:
It's been 9 seasons since Stevens left with 8 NCAA tournaments, they won 5 tournament games during that time period and would've been an NCAA team the Covid year with no tournament. During that same time UConn won 7 tournament games, 6 of them all happened to be in the same season. Uconn would've missed the NCAA tournament in the Covid year unless they won the AAC tournament.
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Well 9 is nearly 10 ;)
 
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