Bazz best UConn point guard ever!

[8893]

This debate has me wondering if age of the posters has anything to do with their preferences. I think KEA was an important player, but best PG???? He and Ricky complimented each other nicely, had a good jump shot, was pretty clutch, had a winning attitude and bigger testiculos than most any other player in UConn history. But, as a PG, I have him behind, Kemba, Bazz, Price, Williams, Ollie, Sheffer, and Chris Smith in some order.

Plus I still blame him for that silly shock the world comment. Uconn was ranked #1 for more weeks than Duke in 99. I'm not sure how beating them was shocking to anyone paying attention. An upset, sure they're Duke, but it was hardly shocking.

We were 9-point underdogs in that game.

Don't agree with your rankings at all and I don't think it has anything to do with age, as I saw all of them play a ton.

 

[Inyatkin]

This debate has me wondering if age of the posters has anything to do with their preferences. I think KEA was an important player, but best PG???? He and Ricky complimented each other nicely, had a good jump shot, was pretty clutch, had a winning attitude and bigger testiculos than most any other player in UConn history. But, as a PG, I have him behind, Kemba, Bazz, Price, Williams, Ollie, Sheffer, and Chris Smith in some order.

Plus I still blame him for that silly shock the world comment. Uconn was ranked #1 for more weeks than Duke in 99. I'm not sure how beating them was shocking to anyone paying attention. An upset, sure they're Duke, but it was hardly shocking.

Someone is mad at El-Amin for saying we're going to shock the world and then backing it up? That's one of the great moments in UConn history.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'd take Walker in this debate.

The thing I don't get is how Price
ended up mentioned with KEA, Walker and Napier.

Because Price's numbers and game lines up pretty closely with Napier's. We forget how good a shooter he was, and how his career was affected by injuries and other things. If he doesn't tear his ACL, our #4 seed team beats San Diego and goes who know how far?

Shabazz isn't at Kemba's level, and the guy everyone has forgotten is Chris Smith, who definitely rates ahead of Shabazz in my view.

 

[aceboon]

At this point Bazz has surpassed AJP, and I'm a known AJP stan, but its wild to me how easily his career is dismissed on here. I remember when Duffy ranked the top UConn players of the 00s and he had AJP over Rudy and there was an uproar, AJ was easily better imo. People kind of forget how he pulled that group together once he finally got his legs and his health back after his poor year in 06-07. That team was scuffling, had been blown out by Providence in Hartford and AJP called the team out for quitting, and then they won 10 in a row with some great wins with AJP clearly the best player on the team. He was first team All BE back to back years and was named MOP of the West Region leading the team to a FF, he definitely belongs in the convo of our best PGs.

 

[Waquoit]

talent level is just higher than KEA.

Just plain not true. I know people's memory fades over time, but for instance Bazz never broke ankles the way KEA did. And Bazz is pretty crafty. Also, KEA was doing it against better players night in and night out. Not just because of the better league he was in, but because the one-and-done thing hadn't taken hold yet. The good players stayed longer back then.

 

[RichZ]

This thread could end in bloodshed.

 

[8893]

This thread could end in bloodshed.

Then I'll take Earl Kelly on my team.

 

[aceboon]

Just plain not true. I know people's memory fades over time, but for instance Bazz never broke ankles the way KEA did. And Bazz is pretty crafty. Also, KEA was doing it against better players night in and night out. Not just because of the better league he was in, but because the one-and-done thing hadn't taken hold yet. The good players stayed longer back then.

Bazz's one on one moves in isolation situations are better than KEA's...and that's not meant to downplay KEA, but as far as crossovers, in and out dribbles, step backs, hesitation moves, etc, Bazz has every tool you could ask for to get separation and a good shot whenever he wants it.

 

[Waquoit]

Someone is mad at El-Amin for saying we're going to shock the world and then backing it up? That's one of the great moments in UConn history.

I cut out the prediction box they had in the Tampa Tribune that day. Out of 47 media members, only 8 picked UConn. I tried to post it but I can't get the scan to look readable. Any suggestions on setting and format out there?

 

[Gurleyman]

To me, it's Kemba then everyone else for 2 reasons. Unlike everyone else on this list, Kemba didn't get to build up to his apex with the same core nucleus for 2 or 3 years. He took pretty much an entirely new roster to a title. Secondly, I would want the ball in the hands of any of those guys with the game on the line. But if we needed a stop against another top scoring point guard, Kemba is easily the one I'd most want guarding him.

 

[Rico444]

Bazz isn't better than KEA. Not even close.

Not even close? Come on. Shabazz is in the national POY discussion, and is almost a lock to be a first team all-american, something KEA never accomplished (in fact, he never made any of the three all-american teams). You can argue that El-Amin is better, but saying it's not even close is just knocking one of the greatest huskies ever for absolutely no reason.

 

[champs99and04]

To me, it's Kemba then everyone else for 2 reasons. Unlike everyone else on this list, Kemba didn't get to build up to his apex with the same core nucleus for 2 or 3 years. He took pretty much an entirely new roster to a title. Secondly, I would want the ball in the hands of any of those guys with the game on the line. But if we needed a stop against another top scoring point guard, Kemba is easily the one I'd most want guarding him.

That last part is what is most significant to me. People overlook how good Kemba was on defense his junior year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Bazz's one on one moves in isolation situations are better than KEA's...and that's not meant to downplay KEA, but as far as crossovers, in and out dribbles, step backs, hesitation moves, etc, Bazz has every tool you could ask for to get separation and a good shot whenever he wants it.

Perhaps as good...better? Either way, that's not the only tool in the box. KEA had a superior midrange game (as did Kemba). And Chris Smith could out dribble any of them.

Shabazz is a hell of a player, but we've had a lot of those. There is a tendancy for everybody to overrate the guy that is on the team now and making the plays a few days ago, rather than 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. There is no real point to these comparisons, except to remind us how blessed and spoiled we are for the ability to watch and cheer for so many great players at UConn. Shabazz is clearly the best player on this team, this year. That may not sound like much, but go back through history with UConn teams and see who you could say that about, and that is some very good company.

 

[James]

Perhaps as good...better? Either way, that's not the only tool in the box. KEA had a superior midrange game (as did Kemba). And Chris Smith could out dribble any of them.

Shabazz is a hell of a player, but we've had a lot of those. There is a tendancy for everybody to overrate the guy that is on the team now and making the plays a few days ago, rather than 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. There is no real point to these comparisons, except to remind us how blessed and spoiled we are for the ability to watch and cheer for so many great players at UConn. Shabazz is clearly the best player on this team, this year. That may not sound like much, but go back through history with UConn teams and see who you could say that about, and that is some very good company.

No we have not had a lot of guys play like junior / senior bazz. He will likely be an All American. It is also rare to see a guy progress in each catagory every year.

 

[Rico444]

There is a tendancy for everybody to overrate the guy that is on the team now and making the plays a few days ago, rather than 5, 10, 20 or more years ago.

And there's a tendency for others to overrate the guy from 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. Look at waquiot; he said that Shabazz isn't even close to as good as KEA was. That's an absurd statement.

 

[tzznandrew]

And there's a tendency for others to overrate the guy from 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. Look at waquiot; he said that Shabazz isn't even close to as good as KEA was. That's an absurd statement.

I think Shabazz and KEA are in the same ballpark, but I think KEA is being underrated here.

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

And let's wait until the end of the year and then judge his awards. I thought 2008 AJP should have been an All American, but he was only rated second team by one publication. Even Caron was only second team. And Jameer Nelson over Okafor for NPOY? Sure, he had a good year, but c'mon!

 

[SubbaBub]

We were 9-point underdogs in that game.

Don't agree with your rankings at all and I don't think it has anything to do with age, as I saw all of them play a ton.

They weren't rankings, as was clearly stated. I do think all those guys were better PG's than KEA.

As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.

VCU shocked the world, so did Butler, Richmond and Vermont. A team that was ranked #1 for half the season can't shock world. Whether you enjoy the sound bite or not, '99 was not some Cinderella story. It was is finally kicking down the door after knocking for a decade.

 

[Rico444]

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

I would agree with this, although like you say later in the post, let's see how his year finishes up before making this statement. If he takes this team to the Elite Eight or further and displays the same clutch play we've seen all year, then I think you can make a case his season stacks up well with all of those you've listed. My main point still stands: you can't possibly say he's not close to as good as KEA.

 

[Inyatkin]

They weren't rankings, as was clearly stated. I do think all those guys were better PG's than KEA.

As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.

VCU shocked the world, so did Butler, Richmond and Vermont. A team that was ranked #1 for half the season can't shock world. Whether you enjoy the sound bite or not, '99 was not some Cinderella story. It was is finally kicking down the door after knocking for a decade.

It's not an either/or. And no one said it's a Cinderella story, which is the one cliche I'd most like to see retired. UConn was great in '99, all year. But Duke was anointed as virtually unbeatable before the tournament even started. It was, even for people paying attention, a huge upset.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

That's ridiculous. It sounds nice 15 years later but it's completely at odds with reality.

[/quote]
As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.
[/quote]

 

[8893]

They weren't rankings, as was clearly stated. I do think all those guys were better PG's than KEA.

As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.

VCU shocked the world, so did Butler, Richmond and Vermont. A team that was ranked #1 for half the season can't shock world. Whether you enjoy the sound bite or not, '99 was not some Cinderella story. It was is finally kicking down the door after knocking for a decade.

Whatever you call it, I strongly disagree with putting all those guys ahead of KEA.

I never looked at '99 as a Cinderella story. I was so sure we were headed to the Final Four that year that I entered the NCAA Final Four ticket lottery for the first time in my life in April of 1998. And I got tickets. And I booked my airfare in November 1998. I was not shocked. But it is true that most of the world was, whether you like it or not. The point spread was indicative of that, and KEA was playing to the storyline--brilliantly imo.

But KEA wasn't shocked either. If you remember that same conversation in which he delivered the "shock the world" quote before the game, he was asked how we intended to play/match-up against Duke, and he simply said something to the effect that Duke had to play/match-up against us. That, in a nutshell, is what separates KEA from just about everyone else. He delivered.

 

[caw]

I think Shabazz and KEA are in the same ballpark, but I think KEA is being underrated here.

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

And let's wait until the end of the year and then judge his awards. I thought 2008 AJP should have been an All American, but he was only rated second team by one publication. Even Caron was only second team. And Jameer Nelson over Okafor for NPOY? Sure, he had a good year, but c'mon!

Not sure Id put Caron 2002 with the others. He was great the final half of the season, but at the point in the season he had just started to break out.

Shabazz has delivered from day 1 this year. While he may not be up with the others yet, he can clearly get there if things continue.

 

[tzznandrew]

Not sure Id put Caron 2002 with the others. He was great the final half of the season, but at the point in the season he had just started to break out.

Shabazz has delivered from day 1 this year. While he may not be up with the others yet, he can clearly get there if things continue.

Caron led a team (largely of freshmen and sophomores) to a 27-7 record and an appearance Elite 8.

He averaged 20.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg (despite having Okafor average 9 and Selvie 6), and 3 assists per game. He did that on 48% from the field, and 40% from 3. And they got a BET title in there. He was fantastic most of the year...at least as much as Kemba was unreal (mid-season slump). And he came a couple of cheap Okafor fouls and a Steve Blake 3 from the Final Four...

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not an either/or. And no one said it's a Cinderella story, which is the one cliche I'd most like to see retired. UConn was great in '99, all year. But Duke was anointed as virtually unbeatable before the tournament even started. It was, even for people paying attention, a huge upset.

Agreed. Nobody in the national media picked UConn. Nobody. It did shock a lot of people. It didn't surprise anyone that those two teams made the final however, those were the two best teams vs the field that I can recall in many, many years.

 

[Waquoit]

And there's a tendency for others to overrate the guy from 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. Look at waquiot; he said that Shabazz isn't even close to as good as KEA was. That's an absurd statement.

Alright, I'll amend my remark to better reflect my thought. The two are close, but KEA was clearly better. Crunch time in the Finals, KEA stuck it right in Elton Brand's face. Has Bazz even played against a guy as good as Elton Brand was then? Not this year. And I'll call you on your statement that calling KEA better is "knocking" Bazz. Now that's absurd.

 

[Dove]

"kitaman, you're killin' me, dawg!"

 

[Rico444]

Alright, I'll amend my remark to better reflect my thought. The two are close, but KEA was clearly better. Crunch time in the Finals, KEA stuck it right in Elton Brand's face. Has Bazz even played against a guy as good as Elton Brand was then? Not this year. And I'll call you on your statement that calling KEA better is "knocking" Bazz. Now that's absurd.

That's not what I said. I said calling KEA better to the point that it wasn't even close is a knock on Shabazz. And it IS a knock on him, just like it would be a knock on El-Amin to say the opposite.

And you're acting like Khalid was one-on-one against Brand all night...Elton was a big man, and El-Amin a PG. And Calhoun double-teamed Brand all night.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Love bazz but this saddens me a bit. When comparisons like this pop up it tells me that people are starting to forget just how incredible kembas run was. COLLEGE BASKETBALL WILL NEVER SEE ANOTHER RUN LIKE IT. EVER!!! Kemba was incredible from day one of that amazing season and while he had a stretch where he struggled a bit he was exploding for 30 every other game and just looked unguardable at times.

 

[HuskyHawk]

No we have not had a lot of guys play like junior / senior bazz. He will likely be an All American. It is also rare to see a guy progress in each catagory every year.

If you believe this, you haven't seen enough UConn basketball. Shabazz was pretty ordinary as a freshman and sophomore. As a Junior, he was about on par with what we got from AJ his last two seasons (after life threatening illness and an ACL injury). Ben Gordon, who played a lot of PG and SG, was better both as a sophomore and junior than Shabazz has been this year (and he played on a team that had far more other scoring options). Chris Smith had similar seasons as a soph and junior and was notably better as a senior. Okafor's last two seasons were monsters. I haven't even mentioned Ray, Rip, and Donyell. Even Cliff Robinson's senior year was a monster. Doron Sheffer's final season was superb and comparable to Bazz's and he's never mentioned in this category. We have had a ton of guys play this well.

 

[selles]

Agreed. Nobody in the national media picked UConn. Nobody.

Digger did! But somehow we won anyway.