Bazz best UConn point guard ever!

[tzznandrew]

And there's a tendency for others to overrate the guy from 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. Look at waquiot; he said that Shabazz isn't even close to as good as KEA was. That's an absurd statement.

I think Shabazz and KEA are in the same ballpark, but I think KEA is being underrated here.

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

And let's wait until the end of the year and then judge his awards. I thought 2008 AJP should have been an All American, but he was only rated second team by one publication. Even Caron was only second team. And Jameer Nelson over Okafor for NPOY? Sure, he had a good year, but c'mon!

 

[SubbaBub]

We were 9-point underdogs in that game.

Don't agree with your rankings at all and I don't think it has anything to do with age, as I saw all of them play a ton.

They weren't rankings, as was clearly stated. I do think all those guys were better PG's than KEA.

As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.

VCU shocked the world, so did Butler, Richmond and Vermont. A team that was ranked #1 for half the season can't shock world. Whether you enjoy the sound bite or not, '99 was not some Cinderella story. It was is finally kicking down the door after knocking for a decade.

 

[Rico444]

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

I would agree with this, although like you say later in the post, let's see how his year finishes up before making this statement. If he takes this team to the Elite Eight or further and displays the same clutch play we've seen all year, then I think you can make a case his season stacks up well with all of those you've listed. My main point still stands: you can't possibly say he's not close to as good as KEA.

 

[Inyatkin]

They weren't rankings, as was clearly stated. I do think all those guys were better PG's than KEA.

As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.

VCU shocked the world, so did Butler, Richmond and Vermont. A team that was ranked #1 for half the season can't shock world. Whether you enjoy the sound bite or not, '99 was not some Cinderella story. It was is finally kicking down the door after knocking for a decade.

It's not an either/or. And no one said it's a Cinderella story, which is the one cliche I'd most like to see retired. UConn was great in '99, all year. But Duke was anointed as virtually unbeatable before the tournament even started. It was, even for people paying attention, a huge upset.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

That's ridiculous. It sounds nice 15 years later but it's completely at odds with reality.

[/quote]
As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.
[/quote]

 

[8893]

They weren't rankings, as was clearly stated. I do think all those guys were better PG's than KEA.

As for prediction, anyone who was shocked simply wasn't paying attention. Anyone who was took UConn +9 and cleaned up.

VCU shocked the world, so did Butler, Richmond and Vermont. A team that was ranked #1 for half the season can't shock world. Whether you enjoy the sound bite or not, '99 was not some Cinderella story. It was is finally kicking down the door after knocking for a decade.

Whatever you call it, I strongly disagree with putting all those guys ahead of KEA.

I never looked at '99 as a Cinderella story. I was so sure we were headed to the Final Four that year that I entered the NCAA Final Four ticket lottery for the first time in my life in April of 1998. And I got tickets. And I booked my airfare in November 1998. I was not shocked. But it is true that most of the world was, whether you like it or not. The point spread was indicative of that, and KEA was playing to the storyline--brilliantly imo.

But KEA wasn't shocked either. If you remember that same conversation in which he delivered the "shock the world" quote before the game, he was asked how we intended to play/match-up against Duke, and he simply said something to the effect that Duke had to play/match-up against us. That, in a nutshell, is what separates KEA from just about everyone else. He delivered.

 

[caw]

I think Shabazz and KEA are in the same ballpark, but I think KEA is being underrated here.

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

And let's wait until the end of the year and then judge his awards. I thought 2008 AJP should have been an All American, but he was only rated second team by one publication. Even Caron was only second team. And Jameer Nelson over Okafor for NPOY? Sure, he had a good year, but c'mon!

Not sure Id put Caron 2002 with the others. He was great the final half of the season, but at the point in the season he had just started to break out.

Shabazz has delivered from day 1 this year. While he may not be up with the others yet, he can clearly get there if things continue.

 

[tzznandrew]

Not sure Id put Caron 2002 with the others. He was great the final half of the season, but at the point in the season he had just started to break out.

Shabazz has delivered from day 1 this year. While he may not be up with the others yet, he can clearly get there if things continue.

Caron led a team (largely of freshmen and sophomores) to a 27-7 record and an appearance Elite 8.

He averaged 20.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg (despite having Okafor average 9 and Selvie 6), and 3 assists per game. He did that on 48% from the field, and 40% from 3. And they got a BET title in there. He was fantastic most of the year...at least as much as Kemba was unreal (mid-season slump). And he came a couple of cheap Okafor fouls and a Steve Blake 3 from the Final Four...

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not an either/or. And no one said it's a Cinderella story, which is the one cliche I'd most like to see retired. UConn was great in '99, all year. But Duke was anointed as virtually unbeatable before the tournament even started. It was, even for people paying attention, a huge upset.

Agreed. Nobody in the national media picked UConn. Nobody. It did shock a lot of people. It didn't surprise anyone that those two teams made the final however, those were the two best teams vs the field that I can recall in many, many years.

 

[Waquoit]

And there's a tendency for others to overrate the guy from 5, 10, 20 or more years ago. Look at waquiot; he said that Shabazz isn't even close to as good as KEA was. That's an absurd statement.

Alright, I'll amend my remark to better reflect my thought. The two are close, but KEA was clearly better. Crunch time in the Finals, KEA stuck it right in Elton Brand's face. Has Bazz even played against a guy as good as Elton Brand was then? Not this year. And I'll call you on your statement that calling KEA better is "knocking" Bazz. Now that's absurd.

 

[Dove]

"kitaman, you're killin' me, dawg!"

 

[Rico444]

Alright, I'll amend my remark to better reflect my thought. The two are close, but KEA was clearly better. Crunch time in the Finals, KEA stuck it right in Elton Brand's face. Has Bazz even played against a guy as good as Elton Brand was then? Not this year. And I'll call you on your statement that calling KEA better is "knocking" Bazz. Now that's absurd.

That's not what I said. I said calling KEA better to the point that it wasn't even close is a knock on Shabazz. And it IS a knock on him, just like it would be a knock on El-Amin to say the opposite.

And you're acting like Khalid was one-on-one against Brand all night...Elton was a big man, and El-Amin a PG. And Calhoun double-teamed Brand all night.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Love bazz but this saddens me a bit. When comparisons like this pop up it tells me that people are starting to forget just how incredible kembas run was. COLLEGE BASKETBALL WILL NEVER SEE ANOTHER RUN LIKE IT. EVER!!! Kemba was incredible from day one of that amazing season and while he had a stretch where he struggled a bit he was exploding for 30 every other game and just looked unguardable at times.

 

[HuskyHawk]

No we have not had a lot of guys play like junior / senior bazz. He will likely be an All American. It is also rare to see a guy progress in each catagory every year.

If you believe this, you haven't seen enough UConn basketball. Shabazz was pretty ordinary as a freshman and sophomore. As a Junior, he was about on par with what we got from AJ his last two seasons (after life threatening illness and an ACL injury). Ben Gordon, who played a lot of PG and SG, was better both as a sophomore and junior than Shabazz has been this year (and he played on a team that had far more other scoring options). Chris Smith had similar seasons as a soph and junior and was notably better as a senior. Okafor's last two seasons were monsters. I haven't even mentioned Ray, Rip, and Donyell. Even Cliff Robinson's senior year was a monster. Doron Sheffer's final season was superb and comparable to Bazz's and he's never mentioned in this category. We have had a ton of guys play this well.

 

[selles]

Agreed. Nobody in the national media picked UConn. Nobody.

Digger did! But somehow we won anyway.

 

[UConnDad]

Love bazz but this saddens me a bit. When comparisons like this pop up it tells me that people are starting to forget just how incredible kembas run was. COLLEGE BASKETBALL WILL NEVER SEE ANOTHER RUN LIKE IT. EVER!!! Kemba was incredible from day one of that amazing season and while he had a stretch where he struggled a bit he was exploding for 30 every other game and just looked unguardable at times.

This is spot on. When we won the BET it was already the best single season performance by a UCONN player. 5 straight days, 4 good teams. The NCAA tourney was easier & gravy !

 

[Gurleyman]

That last part is what is most significant to me. People overlook how good Kemba was on defense his junior year.

Everyone remembers the anklecide to beat Pitt, but he changed that game much earlier. Ashton Gibbs was killing our freshmen guards off the ball, and Kemba switched on to him when we were down 8-10 in the first half. Locked him down. We obviously would sometimes hide him on defense when we could to save energy, but when we needed a stopper, he'd do that too.

 

[James]

If you believe this, you haven't seen enough UConn basketball. Shabazz was pretty ordinary as a freshman and sophomore. As a Junior, he was about on par with what we got from AJ his last two seasons (after life threatening illness and an ACL injury). Ben Gordon, who played a lot of PG and SG, was better both as a sophomore and junior than Shabazz has been this year (and he played on a team that had far more other scoring options). Chris Smith had similar seasons as a soph and junior and was notably better as a senior. Okafor's last two seasons were monsters. I haven't even mentioned Ray, Rip, and Donyell. Even Cliff Robinson's senior year was a monster. Doron Sheffer's final season was superb and comparable to Bazz's and he's never mentioned in this category. We have had a ton of guys play this well.

Napier plays with less talent than Gordon or price did. Gordon wasn't even the unquestioned alpha dog, much less pressure. Even with that said, you're turning this into a subjective topic. Statistically napiers senior year is going to be better than Gordon and prices best years. Check his %'s (still rising) Imagine if bazz had freakin ok4.

 

[nomar]

After we win the title, we can discuss whether Napier reached or surpassed Kemba.

Until then...nope.

Kemba was SICK. Otherwordly. While I'd argue Shabazz is being underrated by the national media, it's worth noting that nobody's talking about him being the best player in college basketball. Kemba finished #2 (and that was a joke).

Shabazz is a better shooter than Kemba was, but that's pretty much the only advantage he's got on Kemba. This is NOT a knock on Shabazz; it just goes to show how absurdly good Kemba's junior season was.

Sort of neither here nor there, but think about how good Kemba would have been as a senior compared to Shabazz as a senior. It would have looked like a video game.

 

[johnhuskies95]

While I'd argue Shabazz is being underrated by the national media, it's worth noting that nobody's talking about him being the best player in college basketball.

Really?

 

[johnhuskies95]

I think Shabazz and KEA are in the same ballpark, but I think KEA is being underrated here.

I also think that Shabazz is being slightly overrated. His last two seasons have been very very good, but in the upper-eschelon of UConn seasons, he's not up there. 1994 Donyell, 2002 Caron, 1998 and 1999 Rip, 2004 Emeka, 1996 Ray, 2011 Kemba all clearly rank higher.

And let's wait until the end of the year and then judge his awards. I thought 2008 AJP should have been an All American, but he was only rated second team by one publication. Even Caron was only second team. And Jameer Nelson over Okafor for NPOY? Sure, he had a good year, but c'mon!

Those guys aren't point guards, which is what we're arguing here. KEA was obviously tremendous, but Bazz this year has him beat in literally every single statistical category from both the '99 and '00 seasons.

 

[Huskybass]

Bazz is a national player of the year candidate and is clearly the best player on the team. Rip was the best player on the 99 team. El-amin was very good, but Bazz has been even better over the past season and a half. El amin was never in the discussion for either Big East or National player of the year.

 

[BlueMAB]

Napier plays with less talent than Gordon or price did. Gordon wasn't even the unquestioned alpha dog, much less pressure. Even with that said, you're turning this into a subjective topic. Statistically napiers senior year is going to be better than Gordon and prices best years. Check his %'s (still rising) Imagine if bazz had freakin ok4.

Gordon deferred to Okafor by choice. When Okafor got hurt, Ben Jordan lit up the garden and set the BET scoring record and owned the building.

You can't have it both ways, you can't argue that Napier's numbers are better so therefore he's better, while knocking Gordon for having more talent. If Napier had Okafor, 1) his PPG would be down and 2) his rebounds would be way down.

Napier is having an incredible season, but he gets the benefit of the senior season that Gordon didn't need.

 

[tzznandrew]

Bazz is a national player of the year candidate and is clearly the best player on the team. Rip was the best player on the 99 team. El-amin was very good, but Bazz has been even better over the past season and a half. El amin was never in the discussion for either Big East or National player of the year.

Let's see where Bazz is voted in on these things rather than assuming he's in the National Player of the Year debate for real. Should he be? Yes. Is he actually? Well, I'm not really sure. I'd bet, no.

KEA got AP Honorable Mention all three years he played at UConn, and he was third, second, and first team all Big East (in that order) in his three years.

Shabazz has been first team All BE once, and has never even made honorable mention of the AP All America team. He'll make the first team All-AAC this year, and will certainly be at least honorable mention AP, but let's not pretend that is more impressive than KEA.

El-Amin was, in fact, not the best player on the first two teams he was PG for. But, as others have noted, it's not particularly fair to criticize him for having Hamilton on his team. Would Bazz score as many ppg if he had Rip on the wing?

 

[aceboon]

After we win the title, we can discuss whether Napier reached or surpassed Kemba.

Until then...nope.

Kemba was SICK. Otherwordly. While I'd argue Shabazz is being underrated by the national media, it's worth noting that nobody's talking about him being the best player in college basketball. Kemba finished #2 (and that was a joke).

Shabazz is a better shooter than Kemba was, but that's pretty much the only advantage he's got on Kemba. This is NOT a knock on Shabazz; it just goes to show how absurdly good Kemba's junior season was.

Sort of neither here nor there, but think about how good Kemba would have been as a senior compared to Shabazz as a senior. It would have looked like a video game.

Not true