B12 and ACC on the clock!

[LoyalFanCT]

One thing to remember here, it looks like a couple of the new AAU members had some help from existing AAU members to gain membership. If the Big 10 wants UConn as a Big 10 member, maybe we too can get backers among existing AAU members who also are in the Big 10. That way, like Notre Dame, USF or Arizona State, we can leapfrog over some of the leading contenders for AAU membership. If UConn gets the AAU membership, that is one less hurdle to get into the Big 10. Then, all we have to worry about is winning football games.

 

[RSTuthill]

One thing to remember here, it looks like a couple of the new AAU members had some help from existing AAU members to gain membership. If the Big 10 wants UConn as a Big 10 member, maybe we too can get backers among existing AAU members who also are in the Big 10. That way, like Notre Dame, USF or Arizona State, we can leapfrog over some of the leading contenders for AAU membership. If UConn gets the AAU membership, that is one less hurdle to get into the Big 10. Then, all we have to worry about is winning football games.

The problem with UConn and the AAU is simply UConn's accounting practices which make it uncompetitive when bidding on research contracts. Very high overhead and bid margin practices. At least that is what is out there. Like competing against institutions not paying prevailing wages when you are required by law to do that. There is all sorts of stuff like that in state government. For instance, why is UConn health run by the nursing school rather than the med school? This undervalues research and publication record in the faculty.

 

[WestHartHusk]

The problem with UConn and the AAU is simply UConn's accounting practices which make it uncompetitive when bidding on research contracts. Very high overhead and bid margin practices. At least that is what is out there. Like competing against institutions not paying prevailing wages when you are required by law to do that. There is all sorts of stuff like that in state government. For instance, why is UConn health run by the nursing school rather than the med school? This undervalues research and publication record in the faculty.

Its definitely a problem, but not THE problem.

THE problem, as the AAU just laid bare, is we are chasing metrics and not politics. ND, a school with limited research, no medical school and a curriculum informed by mythogy, got in.

We need to keep seeing research dollars, but we need to starting playing the real game.

 

[RSTuthill]

Its definitely a problem, but not THE problem.

THE problem, as the AAU just laid bare, is we are chasing metrics and not politics. ND, a school with limited research, no medical school and a curriculum informed by mythogy, got in.

We need to keep seeing research dollars, but we need to starting playing the real game.

So I prefer to look at numbers. Are you saying that ND's externally funded research totals are less than UConn's? Do we know the comparable numbers? The last time I checked, UConn was 60 percent of what was needed to meet the threshold. Where was ND when they just got in?

 

[RSTuthill]

Who did you hear that from? Someone in the UConn athletic dept, BOT, booster, etc?

A reliable source. Someone else here has heard that too.

 

[RSTuthill]

Its definitely a problem, but not THE problem.

THE problem, as the AAU just laid bare, is we are chasing metrics and not politics. ND, a school with limited research, no medical school and a curriculum informed by mythogy, got in.

We need to keep seeing research dollars, but we need to starting playing the real game.

Well, I just checked ND's web site. They are boasting of $244 million in external research of which 44% is federal which is what AAU counts. Two years ago UConn was at $375 million of which I could not locate the federal portion and that includes the Med School portion which I am not sure is counted or not. I could not find numbers from 21/22 and 22/23 will not be available for several months. But of course there are other factors such as PhD's awarded, external awards to faculty, etc, etc.

But there is also the other requirement that you mention. The AAU has to issue the invitation that is approved by 75% of the membership. So from that angle this looks more like ND going to the B1G than anything else as the B1G presumably has considerable sway in the AAU (or one could easily imagine).

 

[TheDrifter75]

Well, I just checked ND's web site. They are boasting of $244 million in external research of which 44% is federal which is what AAU counts. Two years ago UConn was at $375 million of which I could not locate the federal portion and that includes the Med School portion which I am not sure is counted or not. I could not find numbers from 21/22 and 22/23 will not be available for several months. But of course there are other factors such as PhD's awarded, external awards to faculty, etc, etc.

But there is also the other requirement that you mention. The AAU has to issue the invitation that is approved by 75% of the membership. So from that angle this looks more like ND going to the B1G than anything else as the B1G presumably has considerable sway in the AAU (or one could easily imagine).

If their sway is that considerable then why were they not able to keep one of their current members from being dropped?

 

[AZHuskiePop]

If their sway is that considerable then why were they not able to keep one of their current members from being dropped?

The drop Nebraska from AAU was spearheaded by B1G members .
so it’s an anomaly.plus the B1G wasn!t throwing them out and the Huskhers weren’t going anywhere .
But ND is a different situation all together .
The movers and shakers have been wooing ND for years .
Sponsoring them for a Status they covet and by metrics are marginal could be a quid pro quo to help their decision to join . If they join the B1G then to deny that was a factor is a little naive .

 

[TheDrifter75]

The drop Nebraska from AAU was spearheaded by B1G members .
so it’s an anomaly.plus the B1G wasn!t throwing them out and the Huskhers weren’t going anywhere .
But ND is a different situation all together .
The movers and shakers have been wooing ND for years .
Sponsoring them for a Status they covet and by metrics are marginal could be a quid pro quo to help their decision to join . If they join the B1G then to deny that was a factor is a little naive .

Would they be joining the BIG in football only? ND's other sports are covered under the ACC's gor until 2036. As of yet no one has found a way out of that. I'm not going to look it up but I think the football team is even contractually obligated to stay independent or join the ACC. Anything is possible though. It's really kind of the BIG to help them out.

 

[CL82]

If their sway is that considerable then why were they not able to keep one of their current members from being dropped?

Because a you status is only an admission requirements at an ongoing membership requirement?

 

[TheDrifter75]

The drop Nebraska from AAU was spearheaded by B1G members .
so it’s an anomaly.plus the B1G wasn!t throwing them out and the Huskhers weren’t going anywhere .
But ND is a different situation all together .
The movers and shakers have been wooing ND for years .
Sponsoring them for a Status they covet and by metrics are marginal could be a quid pro quo to help their decision to join . If they join the B1G then to deny that was a factor is a little naive .

It was an embarrassment for the BIG so that doesn't really make sense.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Would they be joining the BIG in football only? ND's other sports are covered under the ACC's gor until 2036. As of yet no one has found a way out of that. I'm not going to look it up but I think the football team is even contractually obligated to stay independent or join the ACC. Anything is possible though. It's really kind of the BIG to help them out.

Because ND isn't a full fledged member of the ACC, they don't have the same exit challenges/costs that the full members do. They can easily pay off their exit costs.

 

[TheDrifter75]

Because ND isn't a full fledged member of the ACC, they don't have the same exit challenges/costs that the full members do. They can easily pay off their exit costs.

As for the exit costs it's all revenue until 2036. Not sure how it shakes out with football but like I said earlier I believe there is a binding agreement on what they can do there.

 

[Rufus]

Notre Dame’s exit fee is around $100 million. Or around one years worth of B1G revenue if they join the conference. That’s before negations to bring it down.

Explaining Notre Dame's realignment dilemma, ACC Grant of Rights fee

 

[TheDrifter75]

Notre Dame’s exit fee is around $100 million. Or around one years worth of B1G revenue if they join the conference. That’s before negations to bring it down.

Explaining Notre Dame's realignment dilemma, ACC Grant of Rights fee

Is that just football? Because they have an agreement to play a set number of games with the ACC in football. Reading that I think the rest of their sports still fall under the GOR.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Is that just football? Because they have an agreement to play a set number of games with the ACC in football. Reading that I think the rest of their sports still fall under the GOR.

The rest of their sports' TV rights are a pirmttance. Bottom line, ND can very easily make up their exit fees by going to the B1G.

 

[TheDrifter75]

The rest of their sports' TV rights are a pirmttance. Bottom line, ND can very easily make up their exit fees by going to the B1G.

That's not the way the GOR works. Unless they have a different arrangement for their other sports than the rest of the conference. But, you know what, I don't really care enough to carry on the conversation. Whatever it is it is. If I'm wrong I'm sure I'll read about it here.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Would they be joining the BIG in football only? ND's other sports are covered under the ACC's gor until 2036. As of yet no one has found a way out of that. I'm not going to look it up but I think the football team is even contractually obligated to stay independent or join the ACC. Anything is possible though. It's really kind of the BIG to help them out.

Do you really think the B1G cares about any other ND sport besides football ?
If another sport say BB moved the needle we would be in the B1G.
Isn’t Hockey already in the B1G ?

 

[TheDrifter75]

Do you really think the B1G cares about any other ND sport besides football ?
If another sport say BB moved the needle we would be in the B1G.
Isn’t Hockey already in the B1G ?

Nope, no they don't care at all. That's why ND put them there in the first place, because they don't care either.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

That's not the way the GOR works. Unless they have a different arrangement for their other sports than the rest of the conference. But, you know what, I don't really care enough to carry on the conversation. Whatever it is it is. If I'm wrong I'm sure I'll read about it here.

Explaining Notre Dame's realignment dilemma, ACC Grant of Rights fee ... so, worst case $100m and these usually get negotiated down and/or stretched out over a period of time. So, this will not be Notre Dame's driving factor to depart the ACC for the BIG. The B1G's new TV deal even has a clause for the potential future inclusion of ND.

 

[TerryD]

Here are ND's legal entanglements regarding the ACC:

--GOR until 2036 for all sports but football and hockey (No TV rights for those sports if ND exits).

--Exit fee...$120 million. Some talk that ND's may be lower but that is doubtful.

--Contract to play 5 ACC football teams per year through 2036 and,

--Contract that says if ND football joins a conference before 2036, it must be the ACC.


So, ND would have to try to "buy out" the GOR. Why would ACC even negotiate? How much $ is that?

ND would also breach two football related contracts and would have to settle damage claims for those.

How much would that cost?

Then, it would have to pay an exit fee.

(Is it even worth it when comparing what the Big Ten would pay minus the above and minus what ND football can get from NBC in 2025 (currently unknown) and what ND gets from the ACC----$17-20 million/yr. ??).

 

[CL82]

Here are ND's legal entanglements regarding the ACC:

--GOR until 2036 for all sports but football and hockey (No TV rights for those sports if ND exits).

--Exit fee...$120 million. Some talk that ND's may be lower but that is doubtful.

--Contract to play 5 ACC football teams per year through 2036 and,

--Contract that says if ND football joins a conference before 2036, it must be the ACC.


So, ND would have to try to "buy out" the GOR. Why would ACC even negotiate? How much $ is that?

ND would also breach two football related contracts and would have to settle damage claims for those.

How much would that cost?

Then, it would have to pay an exit fee.

Uncertainty is one of the best bullets GOR's have in the chamber.

If I were going to value the ND ACC GOR, the place I would start is Notre Dame's annual media distributions from the ACC times the number of years left on the GOR. So, $12M x 13 yrs = $156M. Although that sounds like a staggering amount, if Notre Dame were going to join the B1G, it's doable, although less so when you add the exit fee of 120 million, the breach of the game contracts, and the biggest question mark, what are the damages of reaching their promise not to join another conference until 2036.

 

[TerryD]

Uncertainty is one of the best bullets GOR's have in the chamber.

If I were going to value the ND ACC GOR, the place I would start is Notre Dame's annual media distributions from the ACC times the number of years left on the GOR. So, $12M x 13 yrs = $156M. Although, for us, that would be a staggering amount, yes Notre Dame were going to join the B1G, it's doable, although less so when you add the exit fee of 120 million, the breach of the game contracts, and the biggest?, What are the damages of promising not to join another conference until 2036?

ND received $17.4 million from the ACC per the 2022 ACC tax forms.

(It received $22 million from NBC as well). The NBC deal ends in 2025. They are currently negotiating.

ND gets a 1/3 share of the ESPN ACC TV deal and a 100% share of all ACC Network profits.

I think that ND's best option may be to renew a five year deal with NBC and keep the ACC status as is, for now.

Then, "monitor the landscape" in 2030 when the Big Ten TV deals are coming up for renewal and the ACC GOR clock is winding down.

 

[CL82]

ND received $17.4 million from the ACC per the 2022 ACC tax forms.

ND gets a 1/3 share of the ESPN ACC TV deal and a 100% share of all ACC Network profits.

I think that ND's best option is to renew a five year deal with NBC and keep the ACC status as is, for now.

Then, "monitor the landscape" in 2030 when the Big Ten TV deals are coming up for renewal and the ACC GOR clock is winding down.

Agree, unless someone else decides to blow the whole thing up and gets enough others to join them. The good thing for Notre Dame is you will have a soft landing spot if that happens.

 

[ThabeetDown]

These shirts should be destroyed and the "brains" behind the design neutered.

You must be fun at parties

 

[TheDrifter75]

Explaining Notre Dame's realignment dilemma, ACC Grant of Rights fee ... so, worst case $100m and these usually get negotiated down and/or stretched out over a period of time. So, this will not be Notre Dame's driving factor to depart the ACC for the BIG. The B1G's new TV deal even has a clause for the potential future inclusion of ND.

First paragraph last sentence. GOR still applies to other sports, meaning ND would forgo the rights to all other sports revenue until 2036. The 100mil is just for the football team. Better yet, read TerryD's post, he lays it out better than I and I'm tired of banging my head against a wall.

 

[businesslawyer]

Here are ND's legal entanglements regarding the ACC:

--GOR until 2036 for all sports but football and hockey (No TV rights for those sports if ND exits).

--Exit fee...$120 million. Some talk that ND's may be lower but that is doubtful.

--Contract to play 5 ACC football teams per year through 2036 and,

--Contract that says if ND football joins a conference before 2036, it must be the ACC.


So, ND would have to try to "buy out" the GOR. Why would ACC even negotiate? How much $ is that?

ND would also breach two football related contracts and would have to settle damage claims for those.

How much would that cost?

Then, it would have to pay an exit fee.

(Is it even worth it when comparing what the Big Ten would pay minus the above and minus what ND football can get from NBC in 2025 (currently unknown) and what ND gets from the ACC----$17-20 million/yr. ??).

To make an obvious point, if the Big Ten and ND want to be married, they would not be stopped by the fact that the ACC would still have the broadcast rights to ND's home basketball games for the remaining term of the GOR (assuming the GOR is specifically enforceable, which I've never been overly sure about).

 

[Forte]

Why are we so obsessed with ND?

 

[TheDrifter75]

Why are we so obsessed with ND?

No joke, I'm ashamed of my involvement in the discussion

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why are we so obsessed with ND?

This is effectively a Notre Dame message board much of the time. A lot of the posters are boomers still living in the 80’s when it comes to college football.