Azzi Fudd to UCONN

[Buzzyboy]

Just where does Collier rank in your levels, certainly at least as high as KML, KLS, and higher than Megan and Christyn? However, Christyn may elevate her game this season.

I agree that Megan and Christyn are definitely at a lower level than Collier, KML and KLS .... I seriously doubt Christyn can elevate to that level .... she had a really poor 1/2 + season last year before she finished off in a better place

 

[Buzzyboy]

It's all really opinions, isn't it? And how lucky are we to have so many greats in UCONN's storied history to even be able to hvae this debate?

In general, I do think it's pretty easy to rank the big 3 as "generational" meaning they are head and shoulders above every other player to come thru the program. But once you get down to the next levels, it's really just a matter of opinion.

I always (me personally) list Tina as just a step below the big 3, but above everyone else, because she was NPOY as a senior. She beat out Maya in Maya's junior year (Tina's senior year) which is no small feat. In general I don't think it's fair to judge based on the # of NC's won because no one player wins them by themselves.

Stewie was blessed with an incredible supporting cast including the best PG in college at the time, and the best shooter (KML) as well as 2 years of Hartley/Dolson. Not to take anything away from the accomplishment of 4 straight NC's, but IMHO Diana's 3 NC's are more impressive based on the supporting cast the 2 all time greats had.

For Pheesa, she was ranked between 4-6 by the big 4 services, and no one had her in their top 3. Phee was "only" a 2x AA compared to Lou's 3x. But it's really splitting hairs and you can make the argument so many different ways to put someone above or below another player.

Bottom line, my point was that if you look at Dee, Maya and Stewie as the all time greats, with Tina a close 2nd, the rest of the UCONN great players rank below them for their college accomplishments. Pheesa has far outperformed Lou in the pros (as well as KML), but in college, she did not IMHO. Megan only had 3 years in college and only 1 really good season, so as a former #1 recruit, she's probably one of the weakest IMHO.

Tamika Williams Jeter would be the weakest #1. Averaged under 11 PPG for her career and was never an AA IIRC. Cash and Jones had better college careers, and sadly, Bird's injuries sort of take her out of the running for all time greats in college. Ann Strother is another of the weaker #1 recruits - averaging something like 12 PPG for her career and never being named an AA.

Bringing it back to Azzi, I believe both she and Paige have the potential to be Dee, Maya & Stewie great. It will be hard to judge based on NPOY accolades because really only one can win, unless the split the vote among different services.

Didn't Tamika Williams have the highest field goal percentage in UConn history and maybe close to the best in the history of women's basketball? Maybe I'm mistaken but that's what I remember .... she served her role fantastically

 

[bballnut90]

In terms of UConn players based on college careers, I think most people agree that Diana, Maya, and Stewie are at the top, in some order. Of the other players, I’d put Sue next, then Tina. Based on her pro career, Sue ranks very, very high.

I'd definitely include Jefferson with Bird/Charles. You could make a very strong case that she was ultimately a better collegiate player than Bird was.

 

[bballnut90]

Didn't Tamika Williams have the highest field goal percentage in UConn history and maybe close to the best in the history of women's basketball? Maybe I'm mistaken but that's what I remember .... she served her role fantastically

Yep, has the national record at 70.3% as of 2018. She never became your typical #1 recruit (never was an AA, came off the bench her soph/jr year, etc) but filled her role very well on both ends and was remarkably efficient. Each season she played with at least 4 of Bird, Taurasi, Ralph, Abrosimova, Cash and Asjha Jones so there wasn't a lot of opportunity to stand out.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/2018/D1.pdf

 

[donalddoowop]

I agree that Megan and Christyn are definitely at a lower level than Collier, KML and KLS .... I seriously doubt Christyn can elevate to that level .... she had a really poor 1/2 + season last year before she finished off in a better place

Some people seemed to forget that Christyn played a lot of 3 on 3 basketball the Summer of 2019 and I think she got burned out. She should be fresh and determined this season. She takes pride in her ability to play top level basketball.

 

[Plebe]

I'm sort of stunned - the "Fudd down to UCONN and UCLA" thread got over 400 posts before it was locked (415). But now that she's committed, we have a paltry 350 posts so far? BY'ers letting us down with their enthusiasm!

I'm still doing this a week later

 

[Go/huskies]

stamp of approval from one Transcendent talent to the next.

 

[meyers7]

I'm sort of stunned - the "Fudd down to UCONN and UCLA" thread got over 400 posts before it was locked (415). But now that she's committed, we have a paltry 350 posts so far? BY'ers letting us down with their enthusiasm!

Imagine how many it would have been if she'd picked UCLA.

 

[meyers7]

I'd definitely include Jefferson with Bird/Charles. You could make a very strong case that she was ultimately a better collegiate player than Bird was.

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

 

[HopJim]

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

Jefferson did not need to score to change the outcome of games. One of the best defenders ever.

 

[ScottCT]

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

Do you think there's a way you can squeeze Bria Hartley into the 2nd tier?

 

[Boreifs]

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

Geno would be livid to see bBas

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

Geno would be livid to see such a list without Bascom. Lobo, Rizzotti, Wolters and Sales Never would have come to UConn if she had not put the program on the map.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

Hard to separate Collier and Samuelson into different tiers, given how linked and similar their careers were.

 

[CocoHusky]

Agree. Bird and Jefferson are pretty close offensively. However, there's a decent gap defensively in Jefferson's favor.

Here are my tiers.

Mt Rushmore (legends) - DT, Moore, Stewart
1st Tier - Lobo, Abrosimova, Bird, Charles, Jefferson, Collier
2nd Tier - Rizzotti, Wolters, Sales, Cash, Ralph, KLM, KLS

Somewhere along the line we probably had this discussion before: Kerry Bascom could replace Collier on 1st Tier or Cash, KML or KLS on 2nd Tier.

 

[EricSD]

Hard to separate Collier and Samuelson into different tiers, given how linked and similar their careers were.

Agreed. In college, if Lou had not been injured for those 10 games, her stats would have likely eclipsed Napheesa's. Pheesa has blossomed much faster in the W than Lou, so people seem to sometimes focus on that more, but from a college perspective, Pheesa is not (IMHO) a tier or level above Lou...

Having said that, we are so blessed as fans to even be able to have this discussion. There are probably at least 20 players from our history that could be in the discussion for all time greats, put on "greats" lists, etc. And the train just continues. Williams, ONO, Makurat, Edwards, Bueckers, Fudd, and probably a few others on our current or future team will have careers that will vault them into the stratosphere discussions!

 

[Go/huskies]

I would add Gabby Williams to tier 3 at least, not many players went from role player 2 years in a row, on to NDPY, and 2 time all American.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Agreed. In college, if Lou had not been injured for those 10 games, her stats would have likely eclipsed Napheesa's. Pheesa has blossomed much faster in the W than Lou, so people seem to sometimes focus on that more, but from a college perspective, Pheesa is not (IMHO) a tier or level above Lou...

Having said that, we are so blessed as fans to even be able to have this discussion. There are probably at least 20 players from our history that could be in the discussion for all time greats, put on "greats" lists, etc. And the train just continues. Williams, ONO, Makurat, Edwards, Bueckers, Fudd, and probably a few others on our current or future team will have careers that will vault them into the stratosphere discussions!

EricBeverlyHills is right about being fortunate to be able to have this discussion. The players in the second tier (3rd group) would have been the best players in the history of about 300+ other schools. It’s easy to understand why recruits and incoming freshman are so impressed by the banners in the Werth Center. There’s also the larger-than-life banner of 4-time consensus/unanimous (?) All-American Magnificent Maya.

 

[CocoHusky]

I would add Gabby Williams to tier 3 at least, not many players went from role player 2 years in a row, on to NDPY, and 2 time all American.

I have a long list of players before I'd get to Gabby -fabulous though she were.
Bascom
Dolson
Hartley
Montgomery
Tuck
(Gabby)
(Walker)

 

[Sluconn Husky]

I have a long list of players before I'd get to Gabby -fabulous though she were.
Bascom
Dolson
Hartley
Montgomery
Tuck
(Gabby)
(Walker)

Tuck and Hartley ahead of Gabby Williams? Gabby was arguably the best player in the nation for two seasons.

 

[Longtime fan]

She’s from La not Tx

Why did I think Texas? Must be the self -quarantine....

 

[Longtime fan]

She was valedictorian of her class with a straight 4.0 average! Very smart mop ups will be forthcoming.

Sometimes, athletes with great heart and determination, can do a lot more than we think. I'm glad she is wearing UConn colors.

 

[meyers7]

Geno would be livid to see bBas

Geno would be livid to see such a list without Bascom. Lobo, Rizzotti, Wolters and Sales Never would have come to UConn if she had not put the program on the map.

Probably, but I still wouldn't put her on those tiers. Different time really. If I was doing another Tier, then sure.

 

[meyers7]

Hard to separate Collier and Samuelson into different tiers, given how linked and similar their careers were.

Yes it is. I've moved them back and forth and put them together numerous times. Finally came up with this. ???

 

[j66kicker]

Number in ( ) is # of Lieberman, Wade, Honda, Wooden, Naismith POY, AP POY, USWBA POY. (The more recently a player played, the more of these awards existed and were available - AP POY only since 1995, Wooden only since 2004)

Tier 1 (Rushmore)
Taurasi (9)
Moore (13)
Stewart (16)

Tier 2
Bird (8) (I could easily be persuaded to promote Sue to Tier 1)
Charles (4)
Lobo (5)
Rizzotti (3)

Tier 3
Sales
Ralph (1)
Abrosimova
Cash
Jefferson (2)
Wolters (1)
Montgomery (3)
Bascom (I guess - don't want Geno to be livid)

Tier 4
Hartley
Collier
G. Williams
T. Williams
Jones
Mosqueda-Lewis
Samuelson
Tuck
Dolson

Note: Walker is the only HoH player I didn't include in these tiers.

Note: Bascom is the only player listed above with zero National Championships (as would Walker have been, if listed).

 

[meyers7]

Hard to separate Collier and Samuelson into different tiers, given how linked and similar their careers were.

Agreed. In college, if Lou had not been injured for those 10 games, her stats would have likely eclipsed Napheesa's. Pheesa has blossomed much faster in the W than Lou, so people seem to sometimes focus on that more, but from a college perspective, Pheesa is not (IMHO) a tier or level above Lou...

Having said that, we are so blessed as fans to even be able to have this discussion. There are probably at least 20 players from our history that could be in the discussion for all time greats, put on "greats" lists, etc. And the train just continues. Williams, ONO, Makurat, Edwards, Bueckers, Fudd, and probably a few others on our current or future team will have careers that will vault them into the stratosphere discussions!

You guys made me go back and look at this again. I think the difference for me was, while they both scored a lot, Collier was also top 10 rebounder for UCONN (ahead of Stewart) and top 10 in blocks.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I fully appreciate what a difficult task you have undertaken. But I can't see putting Collier and Samuelson in 4 and Cash in 3. I could probably pick a few more nits, but I'm not convinced I won't change my mind in a few hours.

 

[EricSD]

Number in ( ) is # of Lieberman, Wade, Honda, Wooden, Naismith POY, AP POY, USWBA POY. (The more recently a player played, the more of these awards existed and were available - AP POY only since 1995, Wooden only since 2004)

Tier 1 (Rushmore)
Taurasi (9)
Moore (13)
Stewart (16)

Tier 2
Bird (8) (I could easily be persuaded to promote Sue to Tier 1)
Charles (4)
Lobo (5)
Rizzotti (3)

Tier 3
Sales
Ralph (1)
Abrosimova
Cash
Jefferson (2)
Wolters (1)
Montgomery (3)
Bascom (I guess - don't want Geno to be livid)

Tier 4
Hartley
Collier
G. Williams
T. Williams
Jones
Mosqueda-Lewis
Samuelson
Tuck
Dolson

Note: Walker is the only HoH player I didn't include in these tiers.

Note: Bascom is the only player listed above with zero National Championships (as would Walker have been, if listed).

That's some great homework! IMHO it would also be useful to note the number of times they were 1st or 2nd team AA. One gets on the wall of honor for making it once, but some players on the list made it 4 times, others only 1.

It will be fascinating to see the current crop and where they end up after their UCONN careers - Will any of them be on the list, and how high will they be? Given this thread is about Azzi, I believe she (and Paige) will be vying for tier 1 honors when all is said and done Imagine if Paige stays for 5 years!

 

[meyers7]

Number in ( ) is # of Lieberman, Wade, Honda, Wooden, Naismith POY, AP POY, USWBA POY. (The more recently a player played, the more of these awards existed and were available - AP POY only since 1995, Wooden only since 2004)

Tier 1 (Rushmore)
Taurasi (9)
Moore (13)
Stewart (16)

Tier 2
Bird (8) (I could easily be persuaded to promote Sue to Tier 1)
Charles (4)
Lobo (5)
Rizzotti (3)

Tier 3
Sales
Ralph (1)
Abrosimova
Cash
Jefferson (2)
Wolters (1)
Montgomery (3)
Bascom (I guess - don't want Geno to be livid)

Tier 4
Hartley
Collier
G. Williams
T. Williams
Jones
Mosqueda-Lewis
Samuelson
Tuck
Dolson

Note: Walker is the only HoH player I didn't include in these tiers.

Note: Bascom is the only player listed above with zero National Championships (as would Walker have been, if listed).

Eh, personally, I think you have to put more into it than just POY awards (and Lieberman). Umm, AA's, Rebounds, Steals, points, shooting percentages, NC's all should go into it.

 

[meyers7]

I have a long list of players before I'd get to Gabby -fabulous though she were.
Bascom
Dolson
Hartley
Montgomery
Tuck
(Gabby)
(Walker)

I think I'd have to disagree with you there. Not only 2 AA's. But also top 10 in rebounding and top 5 in steals. Top 10 FG %. And led the team in Assists 2 years.

 

[j66kicker]

Eh, personally, I think you have to put more into it than just POY awards (and Lieberman). Umm, AA's, Rebounds, Steals, points, shooting percentages, NC's all should go into it.

Well, other than Bascom, I watched every one of these players play practically every one of their UConn games - either in person or on TV. So IMO I’m eminently qualified to put together my list.