August WNBA thread | Page 7 | The Boneyard

August WNBA thread

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nwhoopfan said:
See, it's not just me! Didn't see this one so I'll take your word for it.
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I'm not saying that there aren't poorly officiated games. (I only saw the last 3 minutes of this game on my phone -- I think the whistle for the foul on Cloud's 3 was .1 or .2 seconds after the clock ran out, but TerpWomenFan could be referring to many other calls or no-calls). I just asked you which calls -- just because there's a short-term disparity in fouls called, it may or may not be a poorly officiated game.
 
If Minnesota wins as a moderate favorite (Atlanta without Hayes, AD, Billings, Coffey, & Wallace -- 8 on active roster including Mompremier & Vaughn) tonight, there will be 5 teams battling for 2 spots within 1 game of each other with 3 to play (4 for NY).
 
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Tangential said:
I'm not saying that there aren't poorly officiated games. (I only saw the last 3 minutes of this game on my phone -- I think the whistle for the foul on Cloud's 3 was .1 or .2 seconds after the clock ran out, but TerpWomenFan could be referring to many other calls or no-calls). I just asked you which calls -- just because there's a short-term disparity in fouls called, it may or may not be a poorly officiated game.
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Cloud shot was after time expired so that was a good call. Lots of fouls called where there were no contact. Also fouls that were not called such as the foul on Austin on the layup that Cloud got the tech on. Also no foul on ONO throwing her elbows on the last rebound.
 
TerpWomenFan said:
Cloud shot was after time expired so that was a good call. Lots of fouls called where there were no contact. Also fouls that were not called such as the foul on Austin on the layup that Cloud got the tech on. Also no foul on ONO throwing her elbows on the last rebound.
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Thanks for the clarification. The only one of those that I saw was ONO and I agree with you.
 
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Tangential said:
Great energy by her in the 4th
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Quinn should have been gone at the end of last year. Seattle is a hot mess, taking out your best defensive player was a bad idea.
Jewell has been terrible shooting almost all year. Gabby should not be a starter, if Bonner can play the 3 that's where Stewie should be, Ezi at center, and Tina at the 4.
Ezi gives you far better defense, and can score in double figures.
Gabby as she was when Connecticut had the Big 3 is good off the bench.
 
Tangential said:
If Minnesota wins as a moderate favorite (Atlanta without Hayes, AD, Billings, Coffey, & Wallace -- 8 on active roster including Mompremier & Vaughn) tonight, there will be 5 teams battling for 2 spots within 1 game of each other with 3 to play (4 for NY).
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Just read that Phee is suiting up tonight
 
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Huh. Minny take a BIG chance with their chemistry this late in the season.
 
Tangential said:
I think that the chemistry will be fine. They are currently 12-20 and are 5-5 in their last 10
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I guess they want maximum overlap between Syl and Naphessa. They seem to be tied at the hip 2 fouls each. Moriah almost recovered from the hyper extended knee early in July.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Huh. Minny take a BIG chance with their chemistry this late in the season.
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Look at Seattle 3 and 4 since they took Ezi out of the starting lineup. The only players that are sure to be there next year are Loyd and Russell. Wouldn't be surprised if Lauren doesn't tell Ezi to stay in Australia rather then go back to Seattle.
They definitely need to get rid of the coaching staff, and the Person who took over as GM should be gone too.
Trading Lou for Gabby was a mistake, 144,000 for Gabby and half that for Lou.
And as much as Seattle has a problem on offense Lou would have helped.
There was a reason Chicago never made Gabby part of the regular rotation, she isn't great at any one thing, and hurts on offense.
 
baggerbob said:
Look at Seattle 3 and 4 since they took Ezi out of the starting lineup. The only players that are sure to be there next year are Loyd and Russell. Wouldn't be surprised if Lauren doesn't tell Ezi to stay in Australia rather then go back to Seattle.
They definitely need to get rid of the coaching staff, and the Person who took over as GM should be gone too.
Trading Lou for Gabby was a mistake, 144,000 for Gabby and half that for Lou.
And as much as Seattle has a problem on offense Lou would have helped.
There was a reason Chicago never made Gabby part of the regular rotation, she isn't great at any one thing, and hurts on offense.
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Unfortunately, no guarantees with Russell
 
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Tangential said:
Unfortunately, no guarantees with Russell
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That's true and another reason they shouldn't have taken Ezi out of the lineup.
She was the future star and contributed more to the team this year, then anyone but Stewie.
 
GCKSFN4L said:
So did Vegas today as well
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Not the same thing though. Stokes has been there all year and part of the rotation.

Collier has been practicing, but hasn't played in a single game, not in game shape. That's a big wild card.

Anyway w/ Vegas it was all about bringing Hamby off the bench like she's done most of her career to hopefully get her back in her comfort zone.
 
nwhoopfan said:
This whole season is just so weird. Any time any team has gotten any kind of momentum, they fall flat on their face in spectacular fashion. Looks like Ionescu is the only starter who did anything for the Lib. DeShields and Peddy went off, w/ some help from Cunningham. An absolutely horrible loss for NY, and a big win for Phoenix.
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Totally agree on how weird this season has been. From the top teams of the League losing to some of the lower level of talent. To how the refs have been calling (or not calling) games this season.
 
Well, Minnesota won. Of course they are better w/ Collier ultimately. Just could take some time to work her back into the mix, and there just isn't much time left this season.

Laney has missed most of the season for NY. Played the last game, although she didn't start. NY lost. Not to put it on her.
 
Last year went down to the wire for the last 2 playoff spots IIRC. But this is year is just crazy. Dallas looks good to make it, whether they hold onto #6 or not. But there are 5 teams vying for #7 and #8 within 1 game of each other. CRAZY!
 
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Tangential said:
If Minnesota wins as a moderate favorite (Atlanta without Hayes, AD, Billings, Coffey, & Wallace -- 8 on active roster including Mompremier & Vaughn) tonight, there will be 5 teams battling for 2 spots within 1 game of each other with 3 to play (4 for NY).
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nwhoopfan said:
This whole season is just so weird. Any time any team has gotten any kind of momentum, they fall flat on their face in spectacular fashion. Looks like Ionescu is the only starter who did anything for the Lib. DeShields and Peddy went off, w/ some help from Cunningham. An absolutely horrible loss for NY, and a big win for Phoenix.
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don't think it's weirdness it's just mediocrity. There are 3 teams that are title contenders: sun, sky, aces. The rest are just playing for pride. I blame a lot on coaches in the Wnba, there are some that have no business being a head coach. Surprising when you see someone like Fred Williams who only became a hc cause of Derek Fisher being fired, took the interim job and imo has done a solid job considering all the drama he has handled.
 
Tangential said:
It has become easy to malign Ogunbowale recently with the Wing's performance with and without her (not to mention, she took a couple of really forced, super-low % shots last night), but if she had an elite point guard, I think that people's eyes would be opened as to her talents. Even in college, with an embarrassment of riches starting lineup in '19 (and to a slightly lesser extent in '18), they still didn't have a pure point guard (imagine how she would be playing with Miles).
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Ah, one of the (dis) advantages of getting into discussions with me on ND alums is I'm one myself, so I'll head back to ND's site to check on things.

In Arike's first two years, she didn't play with an Olivia Miles, but she did play with a pretty darn good point guard -- Lindsay Allen -- who was a four-year starter for ND. Arike didn't start for ND her frosh year, so I looked at her sophomore year and those represented her best overall shooting percentages: 45% overall and a tad over that from three-point land (she and Marina were high-volume three shooters, as I'm sure you recall).

With Allen gone after spring 2017, AO actually shot about the same from the field -- 44% -- but her three-pt. pct. went down both years: 38% in '17-'18 and 35% in '18-'19. Virtually the same for Mabrey, who was around 46-47% from the field all three years.

In her sophomore year, McGraw game Arike something of an extended leash -- much like she gave Jewell Loyd -- to break off a play and go or flat out give an ISO situation. However, Allen would keep it in line and would find AO for open set-and-shoot three's. With no true PG her last two years, the three's were often self-created. Still see it now.
 
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Dillon77 said:
Ah, one of the (dis) advantages of getting into discussions with me on ND alums is I'm one myself, so I'll head back to ND's site to check on things.

In Arike's first two years, she didn't play with an Olivia Miles, but she did play with a pretty darn good point guard -- Lindsay Allen -- who was a four-year starter for ND. Arike didn't start for ND her frosh year, so I looked at her sophomore year and those represented her best overall shooting percentages: 45% overall and a tad over that from three-point land (she and Marina were high-volume three shooters, as I'm sure you recall).

With Allen gone, AO actually shot about the same from the field -- 44% -- but her three-pt. pct. went down both years: 38% in '17-'18 and 35% in '18-'19. Virtually the same for Mabrey, who was around 46-47% from the field all three years.

In her sophomore year, McGraw game Arike something of an extended leash -- much like she gave Jewell Loyd -- to break off a play and go or flat out give an ISO situation. However, Allen would keep it in line and would find AO for open set-and-shoot three's. With no true PG her last two years, the three's were often self-created. Still see it now.
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Outstanding insider analysis. That's why I specifically mentioned her last 2 years, without Allen. As you mentioned, her FG% was flat and 3% went down, but one would think, all other things being equal, Ogunbowale would have improved her % as an upperclassmen (similar to her clutch abilities).

I understand why articles like Women’s Basketball Daily Briefing: Arike Ogunbowale hurts Dallas are written, but if she had Vandersloot, C Gray, C Williams/A Thomas, Bird, Cloud, SDS, Ionescu, Canada, drafted A McDonald over C Collier, etc., I think AO would be more valuable. Even keeping Jefferson or properly utilizing Harris/Burton would have been extremely beneficial.
 
Tangential said:
Outstanding insider analysis. That's why I specifically mentioned her last 2 years, without Allen. As you mentioned, her FG% was flat and 3% went down, but one would think, all other things being equal, Ogunbowale would have improved her % as an upperclassmen (similar to her clutch abilities).

I understand why articles like Women’s Basketball Daily Briefing: Arike Ogunbowale hurts Dallas are written, but if she had Vandersloot, C Gray, C Williams/A Thomas, Bird, Cloud, SDS, Ionescu, Canada, drafted A McDonald over C Collier, etc., I think AO would be more valuable. Even keeping Jefferson or properly utilizing Harris/Burton would have been extremely beneficial.
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You and I are pretty much on the same pulpit. For the rest of this year, I think it would behoove Coach J to rotate Gray, Mabrey and Ogunbowale (if and once she's back) in those two off-guard/wing slots. Let Burton and Harris run the point.

Off season, GM Babbit has some decisions to make. He could trade one of those three along with other bangles (Izzy Harrison? Collier?) to get another top-notch contributor, whether at the three or four. As much as I like Thornton, she's a small power forward and might be better at the 3. To give greater flexibility, it might be a sign and trade (is that possible in the W?) with Mabrey.

It's interesting/ironic: the handle that Mabey picked up volunteering to play lead guard in her last two seasons probably helped her initially stick in the W. However, her "inner scorer" is what has come to the fore the last two years and is, partially, what's making this situation clearer. Stay tuned.
 
A starting lineup of:

McCowan/Izzy
Thornton/Sabally
Gray
Arike/Marina
PG

is pretty impressive and has a ton of potential. Assuming Arike starts, Vickie Johnson needs to sell either Gray or Marina (I'd pick Marina) to embrace a Kelsey Plum sixth player of year role; and really embrace either Burton or Harris as the starting PG.
 
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