Arike Ogunbowale

[Go/huskies]

My opinion here, Wings played the Lynx, considering the ROY top 2 candidates went head to head it would have been nice to give a shout out to Collier for her play in this 86 to 70 Lynx win.

Arike had 22 pts on 6-14 FG (43%) in 37 minutes of play, 1-4 3PT (25%), 9-10 FT (90%), 1 RB, 3 AST, 2 STL, 4 TO, +/- -19.

Collier on the other hand 19 pts on 6-11 FG (54.5%) in 35 minutes, 0-1 3PT (0%), 7-7 FT (100%), 5 REB, 1 AST, 4 STL, 1 BLK, 0 TO, , +/- +13.

When comparing both ROY stats for this game, I tell you if Arike had another strong game...I got go with Collier had a better game.

Since they play different positions it’s a little hard to compare them at times.

 

[azfan]

Since they play different positions it’s a little hard to compare them at times.

This is the real essence of the challenge of postseason player awards whether it's an MVP or rookie of the year or defensive player of the year.

In the case of rookie of the year I guess it's important that we all realize that's a subjective judgment as to who is the best. And statistics are not always the complete evidence for which player is the best. I'm thinking about the discussion of Pheesa's outstanding defense. Often that defense even with advanced metrics is difficult to quantify. Also the relative strengths of the teams the rookies are assigned to can also be a challenge to incorporate into the analysis. At this point of the top three rookies I still would guess the distance between the top two is very narrow.

 

[azfan]

Scouting Wings-Dream: Why finishing August strong is vital to Arike Ogunbowale's Rookie of the Year case

Atlanta Dream at Dallas WingsWhen: 3 p.m., SundayTV: FSSW+Storyline to watch: Winning the Rookie of the Month award for August could have a big...

sportsday.dallasnews.com

Dallas media sees AO leading ROY

Winning the rookie of the month award for August could have a big impact on the rookie of the year race between Wings guard Arike Ogunbowale and Minnesota forward Napheesa Collier. Each has won one rookie of the month award thus far. Including the Wings' Sunday matinee against the Dream, they have three games left in the month. Ogunbowale is averaging 22.5 points on 45% shooting for the month. But with Collier on her heels, Ogunbowale needs to finish the month strong to secure the rookie of the month award and have a good shot at rookie of the year.

At this point it's clear that neither rookie will be a unanimous selection as ROY.

 

[azfan]

AO scores 7 straight Midway through the fourth quarter to pull the hapless Wing to within 4 of the league worst Dream.

 

[eebmg]

AO scores 7 straight Midway through the fourth quarter to pull the hapless Wing to within 4 of the league worst Dream.

She is having a very strong game taking over the 4th quarter after entering down 14 pts. Props.

 

[azfan]

She is having a very strong game taking over the 4th quarter after entering down 14 pts. Props.

AO has another excellent game but her performance can't overcome critical late technical foul and final second turnover by Anigwe.

 

[eebmg]

AO has another excellent game but her performance can't overcome critical late technical foul and final second turnover by Anigwe.

And AO had some errors in the last 2 minutes as well. Missing a few shots, a key FT (after getting a gift foul off a clean block by E. Williams) but she is a lot better than early in the season.

 

[azfan]

In another thread a BYer speculated that I'm an AO fan. Actually I tend to be fan of teams rather than individual players and my favorite teams are the ASU Sun Devils the UConn Huskies and Phoenix Mercury. If I had to pick players that I'm a fan of it would include DT, Stewie, Gabby, Kia, Robbie Ryan, and Jamie Ruden. Like most of us on the boneyard I found AOs cheap shot on Crystal very upsetting and a reflection on both her character and the coaching that she receives. With all that said I feel good about observing that she is one of the top three rookies this year in a rookie class that seems to my memory unparalleled in recent WNBA history. So recognizing her achievements in the context of a discussion of rookie of the year I don't think makes me a fan of hers. There have been any number of sports figures who I have admired for their performance but not for their character or the depth of their commitment to their team.

 

[eebmg]

In another thread a BYer speculated that I'm an AO fan. Actually I tend to be fan of teams rather than individual players and my favorite teams are the ASU Sun Devils the UConn Huskies and Phoenix Mercury. If I had to pick players that I'm a fan of it would include DT, Stewie, Gabby, Kia, Robbie Ryan, and Jamie Ruden. Like most of us on the boneyard I found AOs cheap shot on Crystal very upsetting and a reflection on both her character and the coaching that she receives. With all that said I feel good about observing that she is one of the top three rookies this year in a rookie class that seems to my memory unparalleled in recent WNBA history. So recognizing her achievements in the context of a discussion of rookie of the year I don't think makes me a fan of hers. There have been any number of sports figures who I have admired for their performance but not for their character or the depth of their commitment to their team.

I guess for me, the issues are not 'character issues' but style issues

I would put the rookies into the following classes

Arike - Hero Baller.
Tiera - Brute Force Baller
Naphessa - Complete / Artistic Baller

I would love to see Naphessa win because her style of ball is why I love WBB and I would like to see that acknowledged The other 2 rookies are excellent in their styles but those styles are not ideal for me.

I understand the other 2 are going to get better and diversify their games but
Naphessa is the holy grail in terms of style of play (oh and character. )

 

[Triad]

Players like Arike are like "the little girl with the curl" When they are good they are very very good. But when they are not they are awful. Sort of reminds me of Shoni Schimmel. They certainly can win you games, more often than not they will also brick you out of wins as well. Basically, they lack a conscience or the judgment to recognize when their shots are not dropping but instead just keep right on shooting. I mean if you are 2 for 20 it should occur to you that perhaps it might be better if someone else takes the shot.

The ones you write about: Since age 2 their teams always had an "I" in it. Collier knew how to spell and play TEAM ball. Damn shame, it this case the good guy (girl) won't finish first. Hood basket ball learned on the playgrounds (first in NY) teachese ME first everyone else last. Missouri apparently see it differently.

 

[mbr33ct]

I guess for me, the issues are not 'character issues' but style issues

I would put the rookies into the following classes

Arike - Hero Baller.
Tiera - Brute Force Baller
Naphessa - Complete / Artistic Baller

I would love to see Naphessa win because her style of ball is why I love WBB and I would like to see that acknowledged The other 2 rookies are excellent in their styles but those styles are not ideal for me.

I understand the other 2 are going to get better and diversify their games but
Naphessa is the holy grail in terms of style of play (oh and character. )

Totally agree. I keep going back to these stats for Arike and Napheesa (IMO ROY is between these two players).

Arike, in 28 games averages 15.6 FGA, total for the 28 games; 437 with a FG% of 37.4%.

Napheesa in 30 games averages 10 FGA, total for 30 games: 300 with a FG% of 48.3%.

Let me add, if Arike was anywhere close to the FG% of Napheesa, then I would say Arike wins ROY hands down. To maintain that 17.1 pts/gm (Napheesa no slouch at 12.7 pts/gm) she needs to volume shoot to compensate for that 37.4% FG%.

 

[baggerbob]

Totally agree. I keep going back to these stats for Arike and Napheesa (IMO ROY is between these two players).

Arike, in 28 games averages 15.6 FGA, total for the 28 games; 437 with a FG% of 37.4%.

Napheesa in 30 games averages 10 FGA, total for 30 games: 300 with a FG% of 48.3%.

Let me add, if Arike was anywhere close to the FG% of Napheesa, then I would say Arike wins ROY hands down. To maintain that 17.1 pts/gm (Napheesa no slouch at 12.7 pts/gm) she needs to volume shoot to compensate for that 37.4% FG%.

My point earlier about AO and her attempts per game 15.6 is to many , when the most by the best player anywhere last year. Stewie has never averaged more then 15.

 

[eebmg]

By any measure, her best game. She won it almost single handedly down the stretch in a close game on the road against a desperate Sky team.

 

[azfan]

By any measure, her best game. She won it almost single handedly down the stretch in a close game on the road against a desperate Sky team.

Agreed! Another 30-plus performance with five rebounds and six assists. She's really upped her game over the last month. As you point out this road win over playoff-bound sky reflected her ability to really take charge of the game. Closing out the season with these types of performances in my mind makes for an extremely close ROY

For a contrary view

Napheesa Collier Isn’t Just The WNBA Rookie Of The Year; She’s An MVP Candidate

Napheesa Collier is the most valuable piece of a playoff team, a serious contender on the MVP ballot, the leader of a surprising young core, and a quiet, fierce presence on both ends.

www.forbes.com

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

My point earlier about AO and her attempts per game 15.6 is to many , when the most by the best player anywhere last year. Stewie has never averaged more then 15.

Breanna Stewart also had the luxury of playing all three seasons with both the best PG in the history of the WNBA (Sue Bird), as well as a former #1 draft pick/ROY/All-WNBA player (Jewell Loyd), not to mention one season with the WNBA's MIP award winner (Natasha Howard). And that is not counting Alysha Clark and Crystal Langhorne, two veterans who averaged between 18 ppg and 21 ppg combined for two of Stewart's three years.

Arike Ogunbowale is playing without a true point guard, as Skylar Diggins-Smith (pregnancy) and Moriah Jefferson (injury). She has Glory Johnson who was an All Star, but that was in 2013-14...and Johnson has had her own injuries and has missed games this year. There are Allisha Gray and Kayla Thornton, who are definitely solid (combined, they average 21 ppg). Whereas they would be the equivalent of Clark and Langhorne on Seattle and Ogunbowale filling the Stewart role (to continue the Seattle comparison), there is no one at the Bird/Loyd level on Dallas' roster.

Another sign of this is that Ogunbowale is 4th in the WNBA in free throw attempts, at 4.8 per game (she shoots 79.7 percent from the line). Only DeWanna Bonner, A'ja Wilson, and Liz Cambage get to the line more often. And she is 3rd in the WNBA in made free throws per contest (3.8 per game).

Look at the New York Liberty. Outside of Tina Charles and Kia Nurse, who else is there (especially now that Asia Durr -- who was having a nice rookie season, averaging 9.7 ppg -- is done for the year and will miss over 33 percent of the 2019 season. Charles is averaging 17.6 FG attempts per game, but is only shooting 38.6 percent from the floor.. Why does Charles shoot so much? Because she has to.

As an aside, if you look at the ten games Ogunbowale played in August, you will see she was much more efficient with her shooting. Yes, she took 18 attempts, but she also shot 44.4 percent overall and 44.9 percent from three. And she got to the foul line a lot more, averaging 7.9 attempts per game (and making 78.5 percent of them). Side note...since 2002, only one player in the entire league had a season of averaging at least 7.9 free throw attempts for a full season (2011 - Angel McCoughtry).

Simply put, Ogunbowale has had to shoot more because there is no one else who can be a #1 option (or a #2 option, for that matter), to say nothing about not having a true point guard to facilitate. And to use Stewart as a comparison by raw numbers does not take into account the talent/quality of their respective teammates.

 

[southofnorth]

I think the 35 point, 6 assist, 0 turnover effort kind of solidified ROY for Ogunbowale. She’s improved over the course of the season and continues to have enough eye popping stats night in and night out to impress those that vote. As much as I want Collier to get ROY—and believe she deserves it for her all around play on both sides of the ball—her ppg might be what ends up holding her back from getting it. That’s by no means a shot on her. She plays well and she plays team ball rather than hero ball, but she ppg is looked at too heavily for all POY awards. In the same way I don’t think McCowan would be considered because of Indiana’s record, I don’t think Collier will win it because she averages less ppg than Ogunbowale. Certain criteria just seems to matter more than it should.

 

[donalddoowop]

Collier averages less shots per game also. If they are going with one stat then McCowan should be considered because she leads all rookies in rebounds. Consistency over a full season should be a big determining factor, imo. Arike does not meet that.

 

[tazmaz]

Dallas lost two All-WNBA players from a team that was 14-19 last year.

All they got back from Cambage in terms of immediate help is Izzy Harrison, a huge downgrade. Without Diggins or Jefferson, they don't even have a real point guard. Just Kaela Davis playing out of position and Brooke McCarty, who didn't even make a roster as a rookie.

She's the offensive centerpiece of the least-talented team in the league as a rookie. The results are predictably terrible (33.6% FG)

#2 and #3 on the team in FGA/36 minutes are Kaela Davis (37.0 FG%) and Kayla Thornton(34.7 FG%). It's easy to say she should shoot less but her team doesn't have many good options. Besides, her coach is running plays for her, which I assume means that he wants her to shoot.

Basically, she is doing her job, but her job is nearly impossible.

Dallas Wings were 15-19 in 2018 with Liz Cambage. In 2017, without Liz Cambage they were 16-18.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Ogunbowale with 35 points on 10-24 shooting and 7 assists Saturday.

She's going to win the award. Scoring trumps everything.

 

[eebmg]

Ogunbowale with 35 points on 10-24 shooting and 7 assists Saturday.

She's going to win the award. Scoring trumps everything.

Most likely true. On the other hand, it was interesting to hear the Post game interview one of the Dallas sideline reporters had with EDD about Arike

When asked her thoughts about ROY candidate Arike's play (trying to get EDD's endorsement it seemed to me), she said she is a fantastic scorer and fun to watch.

 

[Orangutan]

Dallas Wings were 15-19 in 2018 with Liz Cambage. In 2017, without Liz Cambage they were 16-18.

And your point is?

Even if you argue that Cambage isn't a difference maker (which would be absurd), they are still without Diggins.

Also they traded Aerial Powers for Tayler Hill last July. Hill has played 4 games for Dallas. Powers is 2nd in total points and 4th in ppg for the best team in the league, Washington.

And they've missed last year's first round pick most of the year as Stevens has battled injuries.

I really don't see how anyone can dispute that Dallas has a weak roster both overall and in comparison to last year's Wings.

 

[tazmaz]

And your point is?

Even if you argue that Cambage isn't a difference maker (which would be absurd), they are still without Diggins.

Also they traded Aerial Powers for Tayler Hill last July. Hill has played 4 games for Dallas. Powers is 2nd in total points and 4th in ppg for the best team in the league, Washington.

And they've missed last year's first round pick most of the year as Stevens has battled injuries.

I really don't see how anyone can dispute that Dallas has a weak roster both overall and in comparison to last year's Wings.

My post made no mention of 2019. There were way too many changes in 2019 to make a comparison. My post was pointing out the Wings had a BETTER record WITHOUT Cambage in 2017 then WITH her in 2018.
Aerial Powers is a completely different player in Mike Thibault’s system. You adapt to the culture or hit the road. She was inefficient (dismal 3.7 efficiency rating) in 7 games for the Wings in 2018. The Wings gave up on her and got no net value receiving Hill and a 2nd rounder used to pick Kennedy Burke who they cut. Powers went from being an undisciplined player to the 12th most efficient player in the league. Mike Thibault with a master stroke.

 

[azfan]

Over on the Rookie of the Year thread Orangutan posted:

 

[azfan]

From SI

Storylines to watch during last week of regular season

The WNBA regular season is almost over. But before you switch completely into playoff mode, check out some of the most intriguing storylines surrounding the last week of the season.

www.si.com

Arike Ogunbowale turned into a freaking supernova.



Here are some stats for you, courtesy of Rachel Galligan. In August, Arike averaged 25 points per game, shot 42% from the field and 44% from three. She’s got three games over 30 points, all of which have come in the past 16 days or so and her season averages are 18.1 points, three assists, 38.2% shooting and 34% shooting.

 

[tazmaz]

From SI

Storylines to watch during last week of regular season

The WNBA regular season is almost over. But before you switch completely into playoff mode, check out some of the most intriguing storylines surrounding the last week of the season.

www.si.com

Arike Ogunbowale turned into a freaking supernova.



Here are some stats for you, courtesy of Rachel Galligan. In August, Arike averaged 25 points per game, shot 42% from the field and 44% from three. She’s got three games over 30 points, all of which have come in the past 16 days or so and her season averages are 18.1 points, three assists, 38.2% shooting and 34% shooting.

I haven’t seen a guard have a stretch like this since I started watching the WNBA in 2014. That year Maya Moore was a freak and in her prime. Arike is the best at creating her own shot in the league right now. I’m not an Arike fan but she is just plain lights out now on the offensive side. Good for the league.
Conversely, I’ve never seen anyone cut to the basket like Collier period. She’s smart and plays on both sides. If I had to choose for ROY it’d be Arike. If I had to choose who to start my own team with it would be Collier.
I remember watching the U18 USA games when Durr and Ogunbowale were playing together. I thought Arike would be a better pro because of her strength. Durr still needs to get stronger because of her frame. Walz would mention the importance of that to her. Ogunbowale can overpower her defender and use her body as a weapon to get separation. She’s fast too with incredibly quick moves with the ball. Has everything but efficiency and that’s been getting better.

 

[eebmg]

I am a Liberty Fan and while the Liberty have been a major disappointment, I have been very pleased with Asia after a tough start and before she seemed to have physical issues prior to her major hamstring issues. She naturally fits well into an offense (something a UConn fan should appreciate) and makes smart decisions. She plays with an elegance I like and she can score in alot of different ways but does not fire up at will like her evil nemesis.

I understand her 3pt shooting has not been good but she is too good a shooter for that to remain the case imho.

Maybe there is a correlation between Liberty doing reasonably well and Asia playing major minutes and the nosedive once she went down.

I also think Arike is lucky to have Agler who is really pushing her to develop an all around game. Not sure how she would look under Katie Smith. Probably more of a mad gunner than she is in Dallas?

 

[bballnut90]

I am a Liberty Fan and while the Liberty have been a major disappointment, I have been very pleased with Asia after a tough start and before she seemed to have physical issues prior to her major hamstring issues. She naturally fits well into an offense (something a UConn fan should appreciate) and makes smart decisions. She plays with an elegance I like and she can score in alot of different ways but does not fire up at will like her evil nemesis.

I understand her 3pt shooting has not been good but she is too good a shooter for that to remain the case imho.

Maybe there is a correlation between Liberty doing reasonably well and Asia playing major minutes and the nosedive once she went down.

I also think Arike is lucky to have Agler who is really pushing her to develop an all around game. Not sure how she would look under Katie Smith. Probably more of a mad gunner than she is in Dallas?

Never understood the hype for Durr over Arike. Arike is a more physical player, better at getting her own shot and is a better passer than Durr. Durr is very smooth and has a great shot but playsmore passively and isnt as dynamic as Arike IMO.

If Durr were on the Wings they'd be dead last IMO. Durr could potentially excel as option 2, 3 or 4 but I dont see her as a star with her skill set. She has better height but isnt a great creator or distributor. Dallas needed a star without Diggins/Cambage and Arike has stepped up to the plate and is playing lights out in a high pressure role despite a rocky start. Agler needed a playmaker and he got the best one in the draft.

If Arike was drafted by the Liberty, her numbers would be significantly lower since they already have a "mad gunner" in Tina Charles who is consistently the highest volume shooter in the league. For better or worse, the team for years has been built around Tina taking 18-20 shots per game, so Ogunbowale would likely be a support player rather than a go to player. Probably wouldnt be doing nearly as well as she is in Dallas if she were playing for Katie Smith.

Dallas is the only team in the league where Arike plays PG and is expected to carry the scoring load too. She wont be playing PG next year with Diggins back.

 

[azfan]

As the season winds down the ROY race heats up. This thread has 36% speculating that AO will win ROY. Over on the WNBA rookie of the Year thread the vote is 71% for Pheesa and 17% for AO. As I said over there I see this as closer to a 50/50 race

 

[azfan]

Arike Ogunbowale is the most fun rookie in the WNBA right now

The Notre Dame phenom has become the WNBA’s hottest rookie — and potential Rookie of the Year.

www.sbnation.com

Since the All-Star Break, Ogunbowale leads all players in scoring with 24.6 points a game on 44 percent shooting. The point guard, who is playing that position for the first time in her career as a WNBA starter, is averaging four assists a game in the second half of the season — mostly via quietly absurd one-handed passes. She became the first rookie with seven consecutive 20-point games, and then she became the first rookie with three consecutive 30-point games. Both streaks are active.

Half way through the first quarter, AO has all the Wings points (4).

AO finishes the game with her fourth consecutive 30-plus performance in a Wings loss. She ties Maya Moore for most consecutive 30 point games in a row

 

[JonathanXIV]

Arike Ogunbowale is the most fun rookie in the WNBA right now

The Notre Dame phenom has become the WNBA’s hottest rookie — and potential Rookie of the Year.

www.sbnation.com

Since the All-Star Break, Ogunbowale leads all players in scoring with 24.6 points a game on 44 percent shooting. The point guard, who is playing that position for the first time in her career as a WNBA starter, is averaging four assists a game in the second half of the season — mostly via quietly absurd one-handed passes. She became the first rookie with seven consecutive 20-point games, and then she became the first rookie with three consecutive 30-point games. Both streaks are active.

Half way through the first quarter, AO has all the Wings points (4).

AO finishes the game with her fourth consecutive 30-plus performance in a Wings loss. She ties Maya Moore for most consecutive 30 point games in a row

Interesting. But pretty sure that games in the first half of the season count exactly as much as games in the second half of the season.