Arike Ogunbowale



Arike Ogunbowale wins rookie of the year

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 36.2%
  • No

    Votes: 44 63.8%

  • Total voters
    69
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In the final 25 seconds of today's game against the Phoenix Mercury:

25.4Arike Ogunbowale personal take foul64 - 65
25.4DeWanna Bonner makes free throw 1 of 264 - 66
25.4DeWanna Bonner makes free throw 2 of 264 - 67
10.8Glory Johnson misses driving layup64 - 67
10.5Brittney Griner defensive rebound64 - 67
10.5Glory Johnson personal foul64 - 67
10.5Brittney Griner makes free throw 1 of 264 - 68
10.5Brittney Griner makes free throw 2 of 264 - 69
6.5Arike Ogunbowale misses running pullup jump shot64 - 69
2.6Dallas offensive team rebound64 - 69
1.0Arike Ogunbowale misses 25-foot three point jumper64 - 69

Ogunbowale is 14th ranked in scoring (leading rookie) averaging 15.0 points per game.
 
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As much as I hated to do it. I voted yes. Irregardless of her inefficiency, she will make her fair share of hero plays and that is what sells.

Naphessa will not have too many hero moments. That is not her game. She is just consistent in every skill and actually is better on the defensive end than the offensive end imho.

And Dallas has no other go to player.

Actually watched the game and surprisingly, Agler actually kept the breaks on Arike during crunch time and her teammates were pretty pathetic

Those last 2 jump shots were desperation shots with no hope of a win.
 

bballnut90

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In the final 25 seconds of today's game against the Phoenix Mercury:

25.4Arike Ogunbowale personal take foul64 - 65
25.4DeWanna Bonner makes free throw 1 of 264 - 66
25.4DeWanna Bonner makes free throw 2 of 264 - 67
10.8Glory Johnson misses driving layup64 - 67
10.5Brittney Griner defensive rebound64 - 67
10.5Glory Johnson personal foul64 - 67
10.5Brittney Griner makes free throw 1 of 264 - 68
10.5Brittney Griner makes free throw 2 of 264 - 69
6.5Arike Ogunbowale misses running pullup jump shot64 - 69
2.6Dallas offensive team rebound64 - 69
1.0Arike Ogunbowale misses 25-foot three point jumper64 - 69

Ogunbowale is 14th ranked in scoring (leading rookie) averaging 15.0 points per game.
Probably will if she continues to score as much as she does. Her percentages are going up too despite this last game. Not sure if the last 25 seconds is supposed to be a jab at her or not, but taking 2 shots in the final seconds when the game is essentially over and fouling to get the ball back are perfectly normal actions.
 
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I stand by my earlier statement. If the league has the gall to give her Rookie of the Month in June right after she set an all-time record for crappy shooting at 2-of-23, they've pretty much tipped their hand. She's been preordained. As long as she's leading all rookies in PPG, they don't care if she's taking 2 or 3 times as many shots as anyone else.

The Wings are now in a tie for last place at 5-12. Which sounds about right, since overreliance on Arike's chucking loses them 2 or 3 games for every game in which she carries them to a win.
 
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I stand by my earlier statement. If the league has the gall to give her Rookie of the Month in June right after she set an all-time record for crappy shooting at 2-of-23, they've pretty much tipped their hand. She's been preordained. As long as she's leading all rookies in PPG, they don't care if she's taking 2 or 3 times as many shots as anyone else.

The Wings are now in a tie for last place at 5-12. Which sounds about right, since overreliance on Arike's chucking loses them 2 or 3 games for every game in which she carries them to a win.
It's a done deal. The way the Home team Phoenix Mercury announcers fawned all over Arike during the game should make clear what "sells". A fact of life.
 
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As much as I hated to do it. I voted yes. Irregardless of her inefficiency, she will make her fair share of hero plays and that is what sells.

Naphessa will not have too many hero moments. That is not her game. She is just consistent in every skill and actually is better on the defensive end than the offensive end imho.

And Dallas has no other go to player.

Actually watched the game and surprisingly, Agler actually kept the breaks on Arike during crunch time and her teammates were pretty pathetic

Those last 2 jump shots were desperation shots with no hope of a win.
Yep, Pheesa is doing great considering that she's a small forward in a land of giants. And it's sad that KLS got hurt and can't compete for the honor.

But Arike is a great guard playing right in her position. No shame in losing out to her for ROY.
 

Orangutan

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I stand by my earlier statement. If the league has the gall to give her Rookie of the Month in June right after she set an all-time record for crappy shooting at 2-of-23, they've pretty much tipped their hand.
The league doesn't pick the Rookie of the Year. The media does.

We'll see what happens over the rest of the season, but if they held the vote today I'm confident that Collier would win.
 
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The league doesn't pick the Rookie of the Year. The media does.

We'll see what happens over the rest of the season, but if they held the vote today I'm confident that Collier would win.
It might be close. But after her initial splash, Collier's numbers haven't been spectacular. I'm certain her efficiency rating is much, much higher than AO's, but AO's hero ball is what tends to sell.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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It might be close. But after her initial splash, Collier's numbers haven't been spectacular. I'm certain her efficiency rating is much, much higher than AO's, but AO's hero ball is what tends to sell.
Yep. In large part, anyway. When folks look at a box score, what do you look at? I look at minutes played, points scored, maybe assists / turnovers for a point guard or blocks for an inside player known for blocks. Unless I'm otherwise checking something (for example, the semi-myth that Rutgers doesn't shoot the 3) I really don't pay attention to the finer stats, unless, as I say, I am looking for something specific.
 

Orangutan

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It might be close. But after her initial splash, Collier's numbers haven't been spectacular. I'm certain her efficiency rating is much, much higher than AO's, but AO's hero ball is what tends to sell.
According to Basketball Reference - Arike's PER is 14.6 and Collier's is 15.4.

Of course, that's just one efficiency formula but it's not as big of a gap as you might expect.

Arike's saving grace efficiency-wise is that she does not turn the ball over much. Her turnover % is just 6.9. Collier's is 15.7.

Of course, efficiency ratings don't account well for defense and Collier is much better on that end.
 
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The league doesn't pick the Rookie of the Year. The media does.

We'll see what happens over the rest of the season, but if they held the vote today I'm confident that Collier would win.
I’m not feeling as confident about the media as you. The fans made Collier the #4 overall vote getter in the All Star game... definitely starter level. The media voted to drag her down to the reserve pool. Then the coaches pick out which reserves they want. Collier subsequently gets left out of the All Star game even though the majority of fans wanted to see her in the game.

I’m hoping things look up for Collier once Dantas gets back (soon). I believe a big part of the reason Collier had early success was that Dantas was great at standing out beyond the three point line finding Collier cutting to the basket.
 

Orangutan

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I'm looking at this page: Season Leaders

See the last column on the right. Collier 14.6, Ogunbowale 8.9
Yeah, like I said, there are many different "efficiency" calculations.

Apparently the formula for the one on that page is - (PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK − Missed FG − Missed FT - TO) / GP

So basically add up all your counting stats and subtract missed shots and turnovers.

PER is far more sophisticated and frankly the calculations are way over my head. One nice thing about it is that PER adjusts for pace and minutes played.

I don't know enough to endorse one efficiency calculation over another. I just like PER because I've been looking at it for years and it's easy to know what a good score is because it is adjusted so that 15 is average.
 
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From what I have witnessed, opponents of Arike knows she does some sneaky stuff as she did two games ago against Jordin Canada by hitting her with her elbow. The announcers ignored it even though it was clear. Even when Jordan was complaining toe the officials the announcers still did not question why she was complaining. She also pushed a player down in yesterday's game, offered to help her up, but the player refused her help, maybe because she thought she did it intentionally. It was good to see Ruffin-Pratt give her the blues today with her tough defense. Just saying.
 

Bigboote

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According to Basketball Reference - Arike's PER is 14.6 and Collier's is 15.4.

Of course, that's just one efficiency formula but it's not as big of a gap as you might expect.

Arike's saving grace efficiency-wise is that she does not turn the ball over much. Her turnover % is just 6.9. Collier's is 15.7.

Of course, efficiency ratings don't account well for defense and Collier is much better on that end.
Basketball reference also has Napheesa with 2.3 win shares and Arike with 0.6.

I'm with most thinking that Arike will win, based on all the games I've watched with announcers giddy with their praise of Arike.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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From what I have witnessed, opponents of Arike knows she does some sneaky stuff as she did two games ago against Jordin Canada by hitting her with her elbow. The announcers ignored it even though it was clear. Even when Jordan was complaining toe the officials the announcers still did not question why she was complaining. She also pushed a player down in yesterday's game, offered to help her up, but the player refused her help, maybe because she thought she did it intentionally. It was good to see Ruffin-Pratt give her the blues today with her tough defense. Just saying.
I'm sure she does. As I posted after the game I went to 2 weeks ago - Phoenix / NY, 1 row off the court - they ALL do a certain amount of sneaky stuff. Sue Wicks, in one of her Rutgers visitations even talked about it; her "job" was to hook and grab the opponent in any way possible without the refs noticing. She was notoriously good at it, by the way.

As I said 2 weeks ago, it sort of is in the flow of the game, since they are all pushing, shoving, grabbing and hooking so it sort of almost never gets called. And no, it doesn't compare to college in that regard, although, I saw a college center with an arm that was black and blue from shoulder to elbow from shots taken by an aggressive center who played at Boston College forever.
 
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I much prefer Collier's game to Arike and feel she is overall a more talented and complete player. That being said, Arike is better than some on the board think. She reminds me of Russell Westbrook in that she has talent yet dominates the ball and game in a way that has sometimes been detrimental to her team. It doesn't make her a bad player but rather one where you have to expect she will win some games and also cause you to lose some.

The Wings are struggling without Cambage and Diggins. I will be curious to see what happens with the squad next season.
 
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I much prefer Collier's game to Arike and feel she is overall a more talented and complete player. That being said, Arike is better than some on the board think. She reminds me of Russell Westbrook in that she has talent yet dominates the ball and game in a way that has sometimes been detrimental to her team. It doesn't make her a bad player but rather one where you have to expect she will win some games and also cause you to lose some.

The Wings are struggling without Cambage and Diggins. I will be curious to see what happens with the squad next season.
Interesting comparison. I just read a analysis of Westbrook over on 585 that argued that he combines high-volume and inefficiency in a remarkable way. That part of their game does seem to be very similar.
 
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If she's rookie of the Year there shouldn't be one this year. She is taking better then 15 shots per game, shoots under 40%. The most Stewie took in her 1st 3 years was exactly 15 per game last year.
 
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If she's rookie of the Year there shouldn't be one this year. She is taking better then 15 shots per game, shoots under 40%. The most Stewie took in her 1st 3 years was exactly 15 per game last year.
Arike took exactly 15 shots tonight against the Mercury. She made exactly 3 of them.
 
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Arike took exactly 15 shots tonight against the Mercury. She made exactly 3 of them.
My favorite were the multiple times when she'd miss a shot and then look pleadingly to the officials with a dumbfounded look on her face that no foul had been called. Agler actually benched her down the stretch of this game.
44943
 
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Interesting comparison. I just read a analysis of Westbrook over on 585 that argued that he combines high-volume and inefficiency in a remarkable way. That part of their game does seem to be very similar.
Westbrook going to sue if you keep making these comparisons. ;)
 
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Players like Arike are like "the little girl with the curl" When they are good they are very very good. But when they are not they are awful. Sort of reminds me of Shoni Schimmel. They certainly can win you games, more often than not they will also brick you out of wins as well. Basically, they lack a conscience or the judgment to recognize when their shots are not dropping but instead just keep right on shooting. I mean if you are 2 for 20 it should occur to you that perhaps it might be better if someone else takes the shot.
 
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