Arbitrator rules in Ollie's favor re: protections

[Deadrody]

I believe that you want that to be true, but I don't believe it is.

Ollie torpedoed the program and absolutely doesn't deserve this money, but UConn fighting him on it has fractured Calhoun's relationship with our all-time most popular player. That same player has spoken out against the school, and blew off his former coach's charity golf tournament. Almost every article written in national media for the last year and a half has mentioned this court battle, and now we're deposing recruits who didn't even come here, they just visited and now they're dragged into this battle.

This is a really bad look for the program.

Indeed. Thanks, Kevin

 

[Zissou]

I don't see how the arbiter could look at it otherwise.

That's why it is before him. It could be viewed either way. It is uncertain.

 

[intlzncster]

Nonsense. The "pay him nothing" position is based on the NCAA banning him from coaching for 3 years for breaking NCAA rules. Ollie's position was at it's peak when UConn fired him. It is considerably worse today because of the NCAA investigation and ruling.

He's not actually banned from coaching. Any NCAA school could hire him tomorrow if they want. They would just have to 'show cause’ for doing so.

Iirc the school that goes him would have to institute the same penalties levied against UConn -- the penalties follow the coach.

 

[David 76]

He's not actually banned from coaching. Any NCAA school could hire him tomorrow if they want. They would just have to 'show cause’ for doing so.

Iirc the school that goes him would have to institute the same penalties levied against UConn -- the penalties follow the coach.

notice how the offers are lining up?

 

[browndog319]

I’m not sure you get to a damages argument in the NLRB arena. The question before the AAA Arbiter will likely be “Did the University of Connecticut have just cause to terminate Kevin Ollie’s employment @ the time of the termination.

This is the AAUP/UConn CBA language:

View attachment 45599

Today’s ruling is all part of the posturing dance. It comes down to what evidence/witnesses does UConn have to present regarding the NCAA and other violations and do they think it will lead to an all or nothing decision on their behalf.

This is actually a pretty risky move by Ollie’s legal team. Basically, this decision is binding and he’s done after it.
The timing of the NCAA violations do seem to line up with why UConn fired him - it is just coincidental that he happened to be coming off another losing season. The NCAA review into the violations and rendering the decision and sanctions they did reinforce the decision.
Frankly, the arbitrator has to consider the information that it has and render an objective decision. Only one of the parties has an objective assessment of their side of the argument. That is UConn with the NCAA’s findings and sanctions.
Ollie has literally painted himself into a corner and the arbitrator means we’ll have an end to this sooner than later.

 

[Northbound]

I believe that you want that to be true, but I don't believe it is.

Ollie torpedoed the program and absolutely doesn't deserve this money, but UConn fighting him on it has fractured Calhoun's relationship with our all-time most popular player. That same player has spoken out against the school, and blew off his former coach's charity golf tournament. Almost every article written in national media for the last year and a half has mentioned this court battle, and now we're deposing recruits who didn't even come here, they just visited and now they're dragged into this battle.

This is a really bad look for the program. I'm not saying it's going to destroy the basketball program or anything like that, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we lost out on a recruit or two, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ray and coach Calhoun's relationship was irretrievably fractured. Is the collateral damage really worth it?

All-time most popular player -

Most accomplished - yes, most popular - no.

No recruit cares about this one bit. Goodness have any of you every been around top tier high school athletes that are being chased by major programs. No kid says - I love their program, facilities, coach, players, school and their plan to get me to the next level, but jeeze they've got an on-going issue with a former coach - I guess it's a hard pass.

 

[browndog319]

Just curious...how much do we think they have already spent on this? KO zero because I would guess it is a contingency set up.

They would have to be the dumbest lawyers ever to take THIS case on contingency...

 

[browndog319]

The above is the critical post in this thread, everything else is window dressing. UConn has to prove by a preponderance of evidence that just one of the following is true:
1. Ollie neglected his responsibilities. I'm sure they have assembled plenty of evidence here.
2. Non-compliance with NCAA rules or regulations or the university code of ethics. We know they have this one.
4. Sexual harassment. There have been rumors of inappropriate Ollie behavior with at least one female student. I doubt UConn wants the bad blood this would bring, but if push comes to shove ...
5. Repeated, documented failure to meet generally accepted satisfactory standards of job performance. After the transfers, Benedict met with players and documented Ollie's failure to meet the generally accepted standard that a coach should retain his players. Then Benedict gave Ollie a documented warning and a year to shape up. Then we hear that at the end of his final season, a lot of players were contemplating leaving. I think UConn has this one covered.

So UConn has strong evidence on 3 points, possible evidence on a fourth, and only needs to prove one with a preponderance of evidence.

Ollie's odds of winning are very low here.

#1 could definitely be perceived as subjective evidence that UConn provides

What happened to #3? As for #4, I think there’s no problematic relationship with a UConn student. Additionally, no sexual harassment like behavior (unwanted).

a student can want a sexual relationship and still have it be harassment and inappropriate because he was in a position of power. He was on TV, led the men’s basketball team, and had money. He had influence. It doesn’t matter if she believes she’s not being coerced, it’s impossible for him to not use his power and influence to gain sexual favors.
It’s why people in positions of power in corporations are forbidden from pursuing romantic relationships with subordinates. Very rarely can it be consensual and opens the corporation to claims of harassment.

 

[uconnell]

All-time most popular player -

Most accomplished - yes, most popular - no.

No recruit cares about this one bit. Goodness have any of you every been around top tier high school athletes that are being chased by major programs. No kid says - I love their program, facilities, coach, players, school and their plan to get me to the next level, but jeeze they've got an on-going issue with a former coach - I guess it's a hard pass.

How is Allen our most accomplished player. He never won a NCAA championship I would say the Kemba and Shabazz with Boatright are our most accomplished players. Must not forget the 99 team.

 

[superjohn]

How is Allen our most accomplished player. He never won a NCAA championship I would say the Kemba and Shabazz with Boatright are our most accomplished players. Must not forget the 99 team.

Our most accomplished NBA player. He's behind Rip, Kemba, Okafor, and Shabazz when it comes to UConn.

 

[husky429]

How is Allen our most accomplished player. He never won a NCAA championship I would say the Kemba and Shabazz with Boatright are our most accomplished players. Must not forget the 99 team.

Referring to accomplishments in the NBA.

 

[crewbear742]

And yet, you still need to be MORE selective.

Fortunately for me, I don't require your validation.

 

[intlzncster]

notice how the offers are lining up?

Maybe so, but he's still not banned from coaching.

Now if he were a really good coach, he'd likely be employed at the moment, if he so chose. A school would take a hit for a rock star.

Heck, Rick friggin Pitino still gets considered on occasion, and he ran a brothel, bribery ring, and crackhouse right on campus.

All this aside, I'll be shocked if KO takes a college job again. Doesn't seem to enjoy it all that much.

 

[Northbound]

How is Allen our most accomplished player. He never won a NCAA championship I would say the Kemba and Shabazz with Boatright are our most accomplished players. Must not forget the 99 team.

Others are correct overall most accomplished - i.e. accomplishments over an entire career - NCAA & NBA - come on now.

Of course he's not the most accomplished just based on his college career - there a slew of guys in line in front him for that honor.

 

[Rico444]

All-time most popular player -

Most accomplished - yes, most popular - no.

No recruit cares about this one bit. Goodness have any of you every been around top tier high school athletes that are being chased by major programs. No kid says - I love their program, facilities, coach, players, school and their plan to get me to the next level, but jeeze they've got an on-going issue with a former coach - I guess it's a hard pass.

I agree with you. That's not what I'm arguing. What I think may be a concern to a recruit would be the possibility of having to be deposed by UConn if they come here. There are multiple recruits who have visited the school - not even come to the school, but just visited - that are being asked to give depositions. I guarantee you James Akinjo is not too happy with the school right now, and that this is something that can and will be used against us by other schools.

 

[Jbirdp5]

I agree with you. That's not what I'm arguing. What I think may be a concern to a recruit would be the possibility of having to be deposed by UConn if they come here. There are multiple recruits who have visited the school - not even come to the school, but just visited - that are being asked to give depositions. I guarantee you James Akinjo is not too happy with the school right now, and that this is something that can and will be used against us by other schools.

I don’t get the point that kids may worry about being deposed if they come on a visit to UConn. So your saying a coach from another school will say hey if u even visit UConn hey be careful you may have to talk to lawyers. Makes zero sense to me, it’s one isolated circumstance yet u keep beating this drum for some odd reason

 

[Rico444]

I don’t get the point that kids may worry about being deposed if they come on a visit to UConn. So your saying a coach from another school will say hey if u even visit UConn hey be careful you may have to talk to lawyers. Makes zero sense to me, it’s one isolated circumstance yet u keep beating this drum for some odd reason

Opposing coaches will play it up, and I guarantee you they won't say it's an isolated circumstance. They're going to say that UConn doesn't have any money because they're not in a P5 anymore, so they have to go after their fired coaches' money in order to keep the lights on in Gampel. Kids aren't going to do all of the research into what happened here so it's just another negative recruiting tool. It doesn't mean we're stuck getting 3-stars and below moving forward or anything ridiculous like that, but I'd imagine in certain cases it'll hurt us with some recruits. That coupled with the fact that our HOF head coach now has a fractured relationship with our school's best player ever (and who knows what his relationship is with Ricky Moore moving forward?) is more collateral damage than I wanted to see the school deal with, just to save some money. And this thing is far from over, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's even more collateral damage.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

They're going to say that UConn doesn't have any money because they're not in a P5 anymore, so they have to go after their fired coaches' money in order to keep the lights on in Gampel.

There are 351 schools playing division 1. A mildly intelligent recruit could surmise that someone in the AAC/Big East as opposed to the much smaller conferences is not likely to go bankrupt and that the coach is just talking trash, possibly helping us with recruits that don't like coaches who play games. If their concern is getting paid, it's the boosters and shoe companies that do that. So there's still no issue.
Nobody outside of CT knows JC and any players aren't on the same page and nobody outside of JC and that/those player(s) cares.
None of this has any effect on the current coach and his ability to coach up players and get them to the NBA. It has no effect on our facilities and has no effect on fan interest and UConn being a basketball first school. I just don't see anything that would impact a recruit's thought process.

 

[polycom]

Maybe so, but he's still not banned from coaching.

Now if he were a really good coach, he'd likely be employed at the moment, if he so chose. A school would take a hit for a rock star.

Heck, Rick friggin Pitino still gets considered on occasion, and he ran a brothel, bribery ring, and crackhouse right on campus.

All this aside, I'll be shocked if KO takes a college job again. Doesn't seem to enjoy it all that much.

This isn't technically wrong. But in practice what school is dealing with a coach that has a show cause.

 

[UCDaveD]

This "Kids might not come here because they're scared of getting deposed!" argument is such a weird hill to die on, yet it has been double, triple, quadrupled down on. So strange.

 

[Rico444]

There are 351 schools playing division 1. A mildly intelligent recruit could surmise that someone in the AAC/Big East as opposed to the much smaller conferences is not likely to go bankrupt and that the coach is just talking trash, possibly helping us with recruits that don't like coaches who play games.

Angelo Chol was being recruited by UConn for a little bit and after cutting us from his list, he said "They ran out of scholarships" when asked why he wasn't considering our school anymore. That wasn't true, but negative recruiting doesn't have to be true to be effective.

 

[Rico444]

This "Kids might not come here because they're scared of getting deposed!" argument is such a weird hill to die on, yet it has been double, triple, quadrupled down on. So strange.

@ me next time.

You've been maybe the most biased, UConn-can-do-no-wrong poster during this whole thing so it's pretty easy for me to not take your posts seriously.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Angelo Chol was being recruited by UConn for a little bit and after cutting us from his list, he said "They ran out of scholarships" when asked why he wasn't considering our school anymore. That wasn't true, but negative recruiting doesn't have to be true to be effective.

But that type of negative makes sense in its impact, although I'm shocked that if that story is true that a recruit fell for it. Just text a coach and ask. Odd. But you're talking about negative recruiting based on our drama. Those fabricated ones are completely out of our control. If they work, Hurley should be out there saying 80% of the other teams will be banned from the post-season due to Adidas and Nike paying people. No way Cliff goes to Kentucky after their news came out.
Fighting with a former coach and some family drama with people who are not currently involved with the basketball program? I just can't see why they'd care no matter how you spin it. They'd be coming to play for Hurley, not the ghost of KO or HOF JC.

 

[UCDaveD]

@ me next time.

You've been maybe the most biased, UConn-can-do-no-wrong poster during this whole thing so it's pretty easy for me to not take your posts seriously.

The guy saying kids aren't going to want to come to UConn because they're scared of getting deposed is going to talk about not taking someone seriously. Hilarious.

Oh, and that they'll believe that UConn doesn't have enough money to keep the lights on! Forgot about that one.

 

[Jbirdp5]

But that type of negative makes sense in its impact, although I'm shocked that if that story is true that a recruit fell for it. Just text a coach and ask. Odd. But you're talking about negative recruiting based on our drama. Those fabricated ones are completely out of our control. If they work, Hurley should be out there saying 80% of the other teams will be banned from the post-season due to Adidas and Nike paying people. No way Cliff goes to Kentucky after their news came out.
Fighting with a former coach and some family drama with people who are not currently involved with the basketball program? I just can't see why they'd care no matter how you spin it. They'd be coming to play for Hurley, not the ghost of KO or HOF JC.

Agree with all the scandal and potential problems floating around college basketball right now, the UConn issues don’t even register on the list of reasons to not attend a school.
Jim Calhoun and Ray Allen aren’t speaking right now, better steer clear of UConn. Can’t see that being a negative recruiting pitch

 

[Rico444]

But that type of negative makes sense in its impact, although I'm shocked that if that story is true that a recruit fell for it. Just text a coach and ask. Odd. But you're talking about negative recruiting based on our drama. Those fabricated ones are completely out of our control. If they work, Hurley should be out there saying 80% of the other teams will be banned from the post-season due to Adidas and Nike paying people. No way Cliff goes to Kentucky after their news came out.
Fighting with a former coach and some family drama with people who are not currently involved with the basketball program? I just can't see why they'd care no matter how you spin it. They'd be coming to play for Hurley, not the ghost of KO or HOF JC.

Again, I'm not talking about drama with a former coach. I agree no recruit cares about that. I'm saying that other coaches can show an example of other UConn recruits getting deposed by the school and use that as to recruit against us. I don't think most recruits will be swayed by that, but some probably will.

 

[Rico444]

The guy saying kids aren't going to want to come to UConn because they're scared of getting deposed is going to talk about not taking someone seriously. Hilarious.

Oh, and that they'll believe that UConn doesn't have enough money to keep the lights on! Forgot about that one.

Three recruits have already gotten deposed, and UConn has shown that they're going to go after fired recruits' money because they're $40 million in the hole for their athletic department. Obviously the "keep the lights on" comment is hyperbole, but do you think opposing coaches won't exaggerate the situation to try to sway a kid? Again, I already gave you an example with Angelo Chol, and that's just because he came out and said it publicly. Negative recruiting happens all the time. All of this for $~10 million, which is a drop in the bucket to the university.

Do you really think if UConn was in the B1G or the ACC making in excess of $30 million per season they would've gone after Ollie's money? And what would preclude them from doing this any other time this situation comes up?

 

[CL82]

Opposing coaches will play it up, and I guarantee you they won't say it's an isolated circumstance. They're going to say that UConn doesn't have any money because they're not in a P5 anymore, so they have to go after their fired coaches' money in order to keep the lights on in Gampel. Kids aren't going to do all of the research into what happened here so it's just another negative recruiting tool. It doesn't mean we're stuck getting 3-stars and below moving forward or anything ridiculous like that, but I'd imagine in certain cases it'll hurt us with some recruits. That coupled with the fact that our HOF head coach now has a fractured relationship with our school's best player ever (and who knows what his relationship is with Ricky Moore moving forward?) is more collateral damage than I wanted to see the school deal with, just to save some money. And this thing is far from over, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's even more collateral damage.

How much of that comes into play when they walk into Werth?

"Wow! This is so cool. Look at all those national championship banners! Oh wow look at those
NBA banners. These facilities are amazing! Man, it's a shame I can't come here since I could be
deposed in future litigation..."

...said no recruit ever.

 

[CL82]

Do you really think if UConn was in the B1G or the ACC making in excess of $30 million per season they would've gone after Ollie's money?

Um, it's not KO's money. It is the university's (and ultimately Connecticut taxpayer's money.) But you know that right?

 

[Rico444]

Um, it's not KO's money. It is the university's (and ultimately Connecticut taxpayer's money.) But you know that right?

You're really going to argue semantics? Call it whatever you want, I don't really care. I am sure the school is going to win this legal case and it will technically be deemed "theirs," but is the collateral damage worth it? Potentially permanently damaging coach Calhoun's relationship with his most successful player and another key piece of his first NCAA championship worth it?

Don't bother answering, I'm sure you'll just post some condescending remark designed to make you feel superior.