Arbitrator rules in Ollie's favor re: protections

[nelsonmuntz]

Thread #500 on the Ollie termination, and the "pay him nothing" position continues to be based on the fact he was losing. I hope the university lawyers have something better.

 

[pj]

Applicable AAUP Language (pg 50 of CBA) - Note that the “level of proof shall be the preponderance of the evidence” and the language in 37-12 A ii regarding serious noncompliance w/ “NCAA rules and regulations”:

View attachment 45593

The above is the critical post in this thread, everything else is window dressing. UConn has to prove by a preponderance of evidence that just one of the following is true:
1. Ollie neglected his responsibilities. I'm sure they have assembled plenty of evidence here.
2. Non-compliance with NCAA rules or regulations or the university code of ethics. We know they have this one.
4. Sexual harassment. There have been rumors of inappropriate Ollie behavior with at least one female student. I doubt UConn wants the bad blood this would bring, but if push comes to shove ...
5. Repeated, documented failure to meet generally accepted satisfactory standards of job performance. After the transfers, Benedict met with players and documented Ollie's failure to meet the generally accepted standard that a coach should retain his players. Then Benedict gave Ollie a documented warning and a year to shape up. Then we hear that at the end of his final season, a lot of players were contemplating leaving. I think UConn has this one covered.

So UConn has strong evidence on 3 points, possible evidence on a fourth, and only needs to prove one with a preponderance of evidence.

Ollie's odds of winning are very low here.

 

[Vermonster]

This has become such a black eye for everyone involved. I don't blame either side for fighting for what they want but, at some point you have to look at it from a higher level and see how badly this affects the UConn brand.

 

[Rico444]

When we have recruits saying well I would’ve gone to you can but I didn’t want to be subject to a deposition, I’ll start worrying. Until then I’ll tell you it’s pretty much only this board that gives a rats patootie about this.

Lol, no recruit is going to come out and say that's the reason they didn't come here. They all play the game.

There wont be a single recruit who decides not come here just because of some former coach's legal battle with the university over money. 16, 17, and 18 year old kids don't give a single about it. 99.9% of people outside of the state don't give a about it.

Almost every national media article has mentioned it? Go ahead and control+f "Ollie" in the following national media articles about UConn. Not a single mention. No one cares.

Big East officially announces UConn's return

UConn officially rejoins the Big East with big welcome at Madison Square Garden

UConn’s Big East Return Is the Right Kind of Conference Realignment

Yeah, that's why I said almost every article. The move to the big east was one of the single biggest college basketball stories of the offseason, so it overshadowed the Ollie stuff. Pretty much every other article at least mentioned the case.

 

[CL82]

Lol, no recruit is going to come out and say that's the reason they didn't come here. They all play the game.

They’re not going to say it, because they’re not gonna think about it for even 10 seconds. But you know what let’s agree to disagree and see how Danny does with recruits. So far it really doesn’t look like it’s impacting us at all, agree?

 

[UConnDad]

The above is the critical post in this thread, everything else is window dressing. UConn has to prove by a preponderance of evidence that just one of the following is true:
1. Ollie neglected his responsibilities. I'm sure they have assembled plenty of evidence here.
2. Non-compliance with NCAA rules or regulations or the university code of ethics. We know they have this one.
4. Sexual harassment. There have been rumors of inappropriate Ollie behavior with at least one female student. I doubt UConn wants the bad blood this would bring, but if push comes to shove ...
5. Repeated, documented failure to meet generally accepted satisfactory standards of job performance. After the transfers, Benedict met with players and documented Ollie's failure to meet the generally accepted standard that a coach should retain his players. Then Benedict gave Ollie a documented warning and a year to shape up. Then we hear that at the end of his final season, a lot of players were contemplating leaving. I think UConn has this one covered.

So UConn has strong evidence on 3 points, possible evidence on a fourth, and only needs to prove one with a preponderance of evidence.

Ollie's odds of winning are very low here.

You seem to have inside info. I have not seen this evidence and documentation. Is this accessible by the public?

 

[kemba]

Yea this has been ugly for the people involved, but as far as having an impact on the future of the program, there is none. It's barely a national story. Nobody cares. Even locally it gets reported on but most people don't care. Recruits don't care at all.

 

[UConnDad]

At this pace the 3 year show cause will expire before the case is settled.

 

[Jbirdp5]

No recruiting website has ever mentioned UConn’s legal dispute as any reason a kid may not choose UConn. It’s a non factor for basketball

 

[intlzncster]

.
This is a really bad look for the program. I'm not saying it's going to destroy the basketball program or anything like that, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we lost out on a recruit or two, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ray and coach Calhoun's relationship was irretrievably fractured. Is the collateral damage really worth it?

There wont be a single recruit who decides not come here just because of some former coach's legal battle with the university over money. 16, 17, and 18 year old kids don't give a single about it. 99.9% of people outside of the state don't give a about it.

The only thing recruits know about UConn:

1. It's a storied program,
2. Now in the big East
3. Dan Hurley is coach

The only way it might have hurt UConn would be if Ollie had strong and deep/wide recruiting connections. Since the lack of those was one of his problems, that won't be an issue.

 

[Rico444]

The only thing recruits know about UConn:

1. It's a storied program,
2. Now in the big East
3. Dan Hurley is coach

The only way it might have hurt UConn would be if Ollie had strong and deep/wide recruiting connections. Since the lack of those was one of his problems, that won't be an issue.

They don't have to know what's going on here, other head coaches will make sure to let our recruits know that they should have a good lawyer ready just in case.

I don't expect it to affect all that many recruits, but do I think Akinjo's AAU program might steer clear of us if we have interest in one of their kids, or someone that's friends with him will hear what that kid has to go through and decide it's not worth the hassle? Probably, yeah. And it'll be a damn shame if Calhoun doesn't have a relationship with Ray Allen or Ricky Moore in the future because of this.

 

[Jbirdp5]

They don't have to know what's going on here, other head coaches will make sure to let our recruits know that they should have a good lawyer ready just in case.

I don't expect it to affect all that many recruits, but do I think Akinjo's AAU program might steer clear of us if we have interest in one of their kids, or someone that's friends with him will hear what that kid has to go through and decide it's not worth the hassle? Probably, yeah. And it'll be a damn shame if Calhoun doesn't have a relationship with Ray Allen or Ricky Moore in the future because of this.

Akinjo is from California which is well out of our recruiting footprint at this time. So if 1 kid out of 50 that we are interested in doesn’t come because of it I don’t think Hurley will lose even a minute of sleep. As most people are saying your making it a bigger deal on the basketball level than it really is

 

[BlueMAB]

Compared to the $51,000,000,000 state debt, yes it is a very small amount of money. $11 million isn't going to bankrupt the state, they are well past that point. Making a statement over this amount of money is going to do more harm than good and may end up costing them more in the end when you factor in all the costs (even if they win).

Different budgets. It doesn’t matter what the state deficit/budget is. It’s UConn’s budget that UConn is concerned about.

If the legislature stepped in and passed a bill to pay Ollie his money then the state deficit would be relevant. But they aren’t, and it isn’t.

 

[Dean Wormer]

$11 million is great, but to say that nobody outside of the state of Connecticut notices this or cares about it is just plain foolish. We're asking former recruits to come in and give depositions? If you think other programs won't use that to negatively recruit against us...

And no, to be clear, I don't think Ollie deserves a penny of the money. Deserve's got nothing to do with it. It's too late to do anything but fight this to the end at this point, but I'm of the opinion now that they screwed up not paying Ollie.

Extra credit for the "Unforgiven" reference.

 

[methodology]

Just pay the man and be done with this circus

 

[UCDaveD]

Just pay the man and be done with this circus

I disagree.

 

[crewbear742]

UConn won't feel it with recruits. UConn will feel it the next time it needs to hire a basketball coach. You can't fire someone for trumped-up chicken-**** ethics violations as an excuse to avoid paying a contractual fee and have it go unnoticed. Potential candidates are going to say "If they would do that to KO, they will do it to me." So UConn will either pay more, settle for lower quality, or offer a much more coach-friendly contract.

 

[jleves]

UConn won't feel it with recruits. UConn will feel it the next time it needs to hire a basketball coach. You can't fire someone for trumped-up chicken-**** ethics violations as an excuse to avoid paying a contractual fee and have it go unnoticed. Potential candidates are going to say "If they would do that to KO, they will do it to me." So UConn will either pay more, settle for lower quality, or offer a much more coach-friendly contract.

Which was obvious with our current coaching hire to replace Ollie.

Think more, post less.

 

[Jbirdp5]

UConn won't feel it with recruits. UConn will feel it the next time it needs to hire a basketball coach. You can't fire someone for trumped-up chicken-**** ethics violations as an excuse to avoid paying a contractual fee and have it go unnoticed. Potential candidates are going to say "If they would do that to KO, they will do it to me." So UConn will either pay more, settle for lower quality, or offer a much more coach-friendly contract.

It didn’t scare Hurley away....

 

[pj]

UConn won't feel it with recruits. UConn will feel it the next time it needs to hire a basketball coach. You can't fire someone for trumped-up chicken-**** ethics violations as an excuse to avoid paying a contractual fee and have it go unnoticed. Potential candidates are going to say "If they would do that to KO, they will do it to me." So UConn will either pay more, settle for lower quality, or offer a much more coach-friendly contract.

Let's say Hurley will be here for about 10 years before leaving for the NBA. At that point, potential candidates are going to say, "Wow, Kevin Ollie is so toxic, he's been unemployed for 11 years and still no one wants him. I guess UConn was right to fire him. Meanwhile, Danny Hurley had a 75% winning percentage, 2 NCAA championships, and ended up moving to a $6 mn/year NBA job. I guess coaching at UConn is a great career move!"

 

[Chief00]

KO next suit will be attorney malpractice. But it’s unclear if it’s more PR malpractice or legal malpractice? KO is the one whose career is totally destroyed and most likely for life.
But what does Chief know? The arbitrator has already ruled the personal employment contract is essentially meaningless in CT. After-all the CBA supercedes state law.

 

[crewbear742]

Think more, post less.

This is the 172nd post I've made in the three years I've been registered. Do the math. I am extremely selective about the subjects on which I choose to post. And if I choose to post, I guarantee you that I will have thought that post through.

I realize that counting unhatched chickens is more than just a common practice on the BY. It's a veritable art form. It doesn't however count as thinking. So perhaps you should set aside your knee-jerk reaction and ask yourself why the "Hurley came here, didn't he" argument might not be dispositive.

 

[Madmannsucks]

They’re not going to say it, because they’re not gonna think about it for even 10 seconds. But you know what let’s agree to disagree and see how Danny does with recruits. So far it really doesn’t look like it’s impacting us at all, agree?

While I think you are correct about recruits not giving it much thought, I do not think it is unreasonable to have opposing coaching staffs playing it up, and saying who knows what about the situation.

 

[dennismenace]

Maybe the recruits will get the message that the integrity of the School and it's athletic department are more important than sinking into the moral mess of many big time school recruiting programs. Uconn doesn't need to sell out it's integrity. Maybe for once adhering to high moral standards is worth the fight rather than caving to a misguided concept of marketing a brand or a public opinion poll of who is winning in a triangular (victim, perpetrator rescuer) game. Pragmatism often wins in a purely business situation but a university is surely not just a business.

 

[upstater]

Maybe the recruits will get the message that the integrity of the School and it's athletic department are more important than sinking into the moral mess of many big time school recruiting programs. Uconn doesn't need to sell out it's integrity. Maybe for once adhering to high moral standards is worth the fight rather than caving to a misguided concept of marketing a brand or a public opinion poll of who is winning in a triangular (victim, perpetrator rescuer) game. Pragmatism often wins in a purely business situation but a university is surely not just a business.

99.9% of the players believe they are being exploited by the schools and the NCAA.