AP Preseason #3 | Page 3 | The Boneyard

AP Preseason #3

Kitaman said:
Ranked number 3 after losing 4 Championship starters; All American Newton, lottery picks Hawkins and Clingan and NBAer Cam!

How can we complain?
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We lost Hawkins the year before.

No complaint but I think UConn should be preseason #1.
 
Kitaman said:
Ranked number 3 after losing 4 Championship starters; All American Newton, lottery picks Hawkins and Clingan and NBAer Cam!

How can we complain?
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Damn - we must have been soo good last season that Hawkins didn't score a point and he was a lottery pick. :cool:
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
That last statement is patently false. Cooper Flagg is more talented than anyone we have, by a pretty large margin. Talent doesn’t always win as we know. But Duke probably has a more talented team than us. They don’t have as talented a coach or staff though, which matters as well.
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Flagg is really good but to say he is more talented by a large margin is BS.
 
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BY is the only place where people think Kansas will be mediocre, Self had like 4 players last season and they were still a top 4 seed. With the depth and shooting they've added I will be shocked if they're not a top 5 team in the regular season all year.
 
I know Dykes is an SEC homer but he's arguing he can't rank UConn top 10 because of what they lost but having Tenn that high is funny. Knecht was their offense.

 
aceboon said:
I know Dykes is an SEC homer but he's arguing he can't rank UConn top 10 because of what they lost but having Tenn that high is funny. Knecht was their offense.

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It’s almost like last year didn’t even happen. Fuel for the fire I guess.
 
CONN78SEJ said:
Yeah, but Bill Self is the coach.
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Dude has two rings and KU fans have a legit gripe that would've won in 2020 if the tournament wasn't cancelled. When Jay Wright retired everyone thought Bill Self was going to be THE coach until Hurley claimed the crown.
 
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aceboon said:
I know Dykes is an SEC homer but he's arguing he can't rank UConn top 10 because of what they lost but having Tenn that high is funny. Knecht was their offense.

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I always liked Jimmy Dykes but this is an all-time dumb take from him. We should be preseason #1.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
That last statement is patently false. Cooper Flagg is more talented than anyone we have, by a pretty large margin. Talent doesn’t always win as we know. But Duke probably has a more talented team than us. They don’t have as talented a coach or staff though, which matters as well.
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You named one guy. Do the rest. You'll have to fall back on HS recruiting rankings. Because if you look at college production there isn't a great case.
 
AntG168 said:
You named one guy. Do the rest. You'll have to fall back on HS recruiting rankings. Because if you look at college production there isn't a great case.
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That’s why we are talking about talent and not college production. Why are we moving goalposts from the original point?

Also FYI, we don’t have a ton of returning production ourselves…
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
That’s why we are talking about talent and not college production. Why are we moving goalposts from the original point?

Also FYI, we don’t have a ton of returning production ourselves…
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I like Ball, Mahaney, Diarra, Stewart, Reed, Samson a lot more than I like Proctor, Foster, Gillis, Maliq Brown, Sion James.

We all know Duke has the #1 pick in Flagg but their talent in in their freshmen and we tend to know how that goes. If we're going by that both Duke and Rutgers have more talent than Kansas, Alabama, and UConn.

I'll take our depth of talent coupled with experienced talent over anyone in college basketball.
 
superjohn said:
I like Ball, Mahaney, Diarra, Stewart, Reed, Samson a lot more than I like Proctor, Foster, Gillis, Maliq Brown, Sion James.

We all know Duke has the #1 pick in Flagg but their talent in in their freshmen and we tend to know how that goes. If we're going by that both Duke and Rutgers have more talent than Kansas, Alabama, and UConn.

I'll take our depth of talent coupled with experienced talent over anyone in college basketball.
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That’s fine with that group. But Duke has 4 other 5 stars that you didn’t mention. Solely talent, as is evaluated in recruits, they probably have more.

Also, Rutgers doesn’t belong in this convo at all, they have 2 superstar talents then a bunch of meh.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
That’s why we are talking about talent and not college production. Why are we moving goalposts from the original point?

Also FYI, we don’t have a ton of returning production ourselves…
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Because you’re conflating talent with potential. Talent is a present tense thing. At this current moment UConn has more realized talent than Duke. How many guys come into college with “talent” aka potential and never realize it? Potential is not a talent.

Mahaney, Karaban, Johnson, Hass, Solo, Stewart are way more proven than the majority of Dukes rosters. Their “vets” haven’t been great college players. If you want to say Duke has more guys with “potential” sure I guess. Though I still may not agree. I just reject the talent word always being used to diminish Hurley rosters. It’s lazy. Newton, Spencer, Castle, Karaban and Clingan had to defeat the same lazy narrative. Give me the proven commodity every time
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
That’s fine with that group. But Duke has 4 other 5 stars that you didn’t mention. Solely talent, as is evaluated in recruits, they probably have more.

Also, Rutgers doesn’t belong in this convo at all, they have 2 superstar talents then a bunch of meh.
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That was my point, those other 5 stars are freshmen. I thought I made that clear in my post.

You seem to be hung up on 5 star freshmen who are viewed as NBA talent, that's why I mentioned Rutgers. They will have 2 players drafted in the next draft before anyone from Kansas, Alabama, and UConn are drafted.
 
AntG168 said:
Because you’re conflating talent with potential. Talent is a present tense thing. At this current moment UConn has more realized talent than Duke. How many guys come into college with “talent” aka potential and never realize it? Potential is not a talent.

Mahaney, Karaban, Johnson, Hass, Solo, Stewart are way more proven than the majority of Dukes rosters. Their “vets” haven’t been great college players. If you want to say Duke has more guys with “potential” sure I guess. Though I still may not agree. I just reject the talent word always being used to diminish Hurley rosters. It’s lazy. Newton, Spencer, Castle, Karaban and Clingan had to defeat the same lazy narrative. Give me the proven commodity every time
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It’s pointless to keep going around in circles. I made a statement that these teams probably have more on-paper talent than we do, we have plenty other things working for us, it isn’t a dig. We can agree to disagree.

superjohn said:
That was my point, those other 5 stars are freshmen. I thought I made that clear in my post.

You seem to be hung up on 5 star freshmen who are viewed as NBA talent, that's why I mentioned Rutgers. They will have 2 players drafted in the next draft before anyone from Kansas, Alabama, and UConn are drafted.
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If they are NBA talent they are certainly College Bball talent. Anywho, my paragraph above states my position.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
That’s fine with that group. But Duke has 4 other 5 stars that you didn’t mention. Solely talent, as is evaluated in recruits, they probably have more.

Also, Rutgers doesn’t belong in this convo at all, they have 2 superstar talents then a bunch of meh.
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Rutgers and Duke will be two very interesting experiments to watch in hoops this year as the success or lack of will likely further propel which way top coaches lean in how they recruit, frosh or portal. Both will be must watch TV.

Guys like Self and Oats seem to be leaning towards portal, Hurley seems to be sticking to ground up development.
 
RuffRuff said:
Rutgers and Duke will be two very interesting experiments to watch in hoops this year as the success or lack of will likely further propel which way top coaches lean in how they recruit, frosh or portal. Both will be must watch TV.

Guys like Self and Oats seem to be leaning towards portal, Hurley seems to be sticking to ground up development.
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Harper is super creative and Ace is a highlight waiting to happen, will be great to watch how they mesh with a bunch of guys who need their level raised.
 
RuffRuff said:
Rutgers and Duke will be two very interesting experiments to watch in hoops this year as the success or lack of will likely further propel which way top coaches lean in how they recruit, frosh or portal. Both will be must watch TV.

Guys like Self and Oats seem to be leaning towards portal, Hurley seems to be sticking to ground up development.
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We're killing it in recruiting and the portal. We just had the best starting backcourt I can remember seeing in college with Tristen and Cam and they were transfers. When you expand that backcourt further you had a top 10 recruit in Castle and another transfer in Hass. Hurley is simply doing the portal and high school recruiting better than anyone in the country.

A one and done stud in Castle and a one in done stud in McNeeley and then a whole bunch of studs who are two or three year UConn players. He's managed to bring in transfers Tristen, Cam, Hass, Joey, Alleyne, Mahaney, Reed without scaring off any of our returning players.

The winning formula isn't getting a bunch of 5 stars who likely leave after one season. It's having a mix of guys who will come back, transfers, and retaining all your players who will be significant contributors and Hurley simply does it better than anyone else. It also helps that Hurley and staff are better at coaching them up than anyone else.

Self and Oats are simply trying to replicate what Hurley has done as are other coaches across the country.
 
Has a UConn team ever had 10 top 100 players on the same roster? I looked at the 247 composite:

17. McNeeley
35. Reed
37. Nowell
45. Ball
57. Johnson
66. Stewart
76. Abraham
81. Ross
82. Diarra
95. Karaban

(Mahaney and Yousseff were both top 150 but not 100)
 
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superjohn said:
We're killing it in recruiting and the portal. We just had the best starting backcourt I can remember seeing in college with Tristen and Cam and they were transfers. When you expand that backcourt further you had a top 10 recruit in Castle and another transfer in Hass. Hurley is simply doing the portal and high school recruiting better than anyone in the country.

A one and done stud in Castle and a one in done stud in McNeeley and then a whole bunch of studs who are two or three year UConn players. He's managed to bring in transfers Tristen, Cam, Hass, Joey, Alleyne, Mahaney, Reed without scaring off any of our returning players.

The winning formula isn't getting a bunch of 5 stars who likely leave after one season. It's having a mix of guys who will come back, transfers, and retaining all your players who will be significant contributors and Hurley simply does it better than anyone else. It also helps that Hurley and staff are better at coaching them up than anyone else.

Self and Oats are simply trying to replicate what Hurley has done as are other coaches across the country.
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But guys like Tristen, Cam and Alex wouldn’t be seen as talented because you know…their high school rankings
 
TheRealKBuks said:
Dude has two rings and KU fans have a legit gripe that would've won in 2020 if the tournament wasn't cancelled. When Jay Wright retired everyone thought Bill Self was going to be THE coach until Hurley claimed the crown.
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He also has a closet full of Adidas sneakers he never paid for. If you love him so much put up a statue in your front yard.
 
AntG168 said:
But guys like Tristen, Cam and Alex wouldn’t be seen as talented because you know…their high school rankings
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There were plenty of people who thought Duke and Kentucky were more talented than UConn was last season. People get blinded by rankings and don't even see what's unfolding in front of their faces.
 
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