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Another Way-Too-Early ranking

Bone Dog

Bone Dog

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I get the temptation to put LSU at the top. But Charlie gives in to it too easily. Kim's got a formula -- lots of 'personalities' (as she describes them) and a creampuff schedule. With a little luck it worked for them last season. She could well repeat this season.

The thing is, I find it hard to believe LSU will beat SC this season, and they could conceivably lose to them 3 times. I also wonder if they'll manage to beat Tennessee. Charlie's speculations will look pretty bad if they take 4 or more losses in conference. In any event, I'd definitely put them behind Utah, SC, and Va Tech any of whom seems likely to beat them handily.

Who does this leave in the 1 & 2 spots? Well, someone's gotta follow the Huskies. Might as well be the Bruins.
www.espn.com

LSU, UConn, UCLA headline Way-Too-Early Top 25 for 2023-24

With plenty of player movement and top stars back, the women's college basketball race is wide open. But everyone starts out looking up at LSU.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
Last edited:
Bone Dog said:
I get the temptation to put LSU at the top. But Charlie gives in to it too easily. Kim's got a formula -- lots of 'personalities' (as she describes them) and a creampuff schedule. With a little luck it worked for them last season. She could well repeat this season.

The thing is, I find it hard to believe LSU will beat SC this season, and they could conceivably lose to them 3 times. I also wonder if they'll manage to beat Tennessee. Charlie's speculations will look pretty bad if they take 4 or more losses in conference. In any event, I'd definitely put them behind Utah, SC, and Va Tech any of whom seems likely to beat them handily.

Who does this leave in the 1 & 2 spots? Well, someone's gotta follow the Huskies. Might as well be the Bruins.
www.espn.com

LSU, UConn, UCLA headline Way-Too-Early Top 25 for 2023-24

With plenty of player movement and top stars back, the women's college basketball race is wide open. But everyone starts out looking up at LSU.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
Expand ...

LSU won the championship and until someone beats them, they should be number 1. And Crème isn’t the only one to put LSU at 1. Every one is ranking them #1
 
Charlie also made his 1st bracketology with the #1 seeds being LSU, UConn. UCLA & Ohio State.
He cites Morrow's choice of LSU as the reason to give them the edge over UConn.

Morrow's decision to leave DePaul for Baton Rouge pushed LSU past UConn for the top overall seed.

www.espn.com

Women's Bracketology: One final projection before the bracket is revealed

All 31 auto-bids are spoken for. Will UConn or UCLA be No. 1 overall? And where will the hosts be seeded?
www.espn.com
 
Geew1992 said:
LSU won the championship and until someone beats them, they should be number 1. And Crème isn’t the only one to put LSU at 1. Every one is ranking them #1
Expand ...
I agree. The champion should remain the champion until someone proves they are not the champion. The #1 ranking to start the season should be automatic every year. If the champion doesn't deserve the #1 ranking it will shake out soon enough. It's not who is #1 to start the year, but of course who ends the season at #1.
 
Uconn will be NO,1 at the end of the season. I don't have statistics, but I believe Uconn has been at NO.1 longer than all other schools combined. NO.1 belongs to us. GO HUSKIES!!!!
 
sun said:
Charlie also made his 1st bracketology with the #1 seeds being LSU, UConn. UCLA & Ohio State.
He cites Morrow's choice of LSU as the reason to give them the edge over UConn.

Morrow's decision to leave DePaul for Baton Rouge pushed LSU past UConn for the top overall seed.

www.espn.com

Women's Bracketology: One final projection before the bracket is revealed

All 31 auto-bids are spoken for. Will UConn or UCLA be No. 1 overall? And where will the hosts be seeded?
www.espn.com
Expand ...
Hmmm, we’ll see. I love Aneesah’s play - she’s incredibly talented - but she’s a bit of a black hole when she gets the ball, taking 35.5% of DePaul’s shots last year. It’s not that DePaul lacked talent, either, it’s that Aneesah tends to force the ball up even though opponents were expecting it. She wasn’t catching teams unaware in her sophomore season. Hopefully her game has matured
 
.-.
Geew1992 said:
LSU won the championship and until someone beats them, they should be number 1. And Crème isn’t the only one to put LSU at 1. Every one is ranking them #1
Expand ...
I disagree. The teams change too much season to season to justify such a privilege. And a privilege it most certainly is, and one that Kim knows how to use to obscure her weak scheduling and to lure prospects to Baton Rouge who wouldn’t otherwise have considered such an obscure outpost.

The NET is eventually more or less accurate, say by early March. But for the first few months it rewards weak schedules for the lopsided wins they tend to produce. Without folks like Charlie to call out the likelier results — namely that LSU will not do particularly well in conference and likely can’t win against Va Tech or even Utah in any tournament meetings — the committee could well overrule what the NET says in March and give a 24-5 team a regional #1 seed “because of their high average margin of victory.” I’m pretty sure Kim is counting on this.

Journalists are not cheerleaders. They’re supposed to prognosticate about reality. If Iowa enters this year’s tournament with only 2 losses and doesn’t host a regional, what then? Or Indiana. Or Utah. Or Tennessee. Or ND. Or Va Tech.

Who seems likelier to genuinely dominate and deserve to host? UConn of course. And SC of course. But also any 2 teams from that list above plus UCLA. They’ll have earned it. On the other hand, if LSU goes undefeated in conference, or at least manages to beat SC, then I’ll change my view.
 
Bone Dog said:
I disagree. The teams change too much season to season to justify such a privilege. And a privilege it most certainly is, and one that Kim knows how to use to obscure her weak scheduling and to lure prospects to Baton Rouge who wouldn’t otherwise have considered such an obscure outpost.

The NET is eventually more or less accurate, say by early March. But for the first few months it rewards weak schedules for the lopsided wins they tend to produce. Without folks like Charlie to call out the likelier results — namely that LSU will not do particularly well in conference and likely can’t win against Va Tech or even Utah in any tournament meetings — the committee could well overrule what the NET says in March and give a 24-5 team a regional #1 seed “because of their high average margin of victory.” I’m pretty sure Kim is counting on this.

Journalists are not cheerleaders. They’re supposed to prognosticate about reality. If Iowa enters this year’s tournament with only 2 losses and doesn’t host a regional, what then? Or Indiana. Or Utah. Or Tennessee. Or ND. Or Va Tech.

Who seems likelier to genuinely dominate and deserve to host? UConn of course. And SC of course. But also any 2 teams from that list above plus UCLA. They’ll have earned it. On the other hand, if LSU goes undefeated in conference, or at least manages to beat SC, then I’ll change my view.
Expand ...

I'm hoping that Iowa gets sent to Albany in the opposite bracket to UConn. Two games with Clark and two with Fudd/Bueckers would be a weekend for the ages.
 
I’ve got my doubts as to UCLA & Ohio State being #1 seeds. SC is more likely than either of them imo and Utah, ND, Texas and V Tech are all as likely as those two. (Or at least close)
 
Who is number one? At this point it is more of a popularity contest coupled with a lot of guess work. In my opinion UCONN will have one of the most dominant seasons in their history and with that will rise to the top spot early and keep it until the rankings next season.

I look at last season and still can't believe how close they were to competing for the title. All that while missing their leader the whole season and their second best player for a good half of the season. This season they look healthy, and they are a much deeper team than they were last year. Should be exciting times ahead.
 
I have to add 3 more names . Caroline, who will show Uconn fans how good she really is this year; Aaliyah, who will be even better this year and an AA and Nika ,who will be the DPOY for the third time. GO TEAM!!! GO HUSKIES!!!!
 
.-.
These discussions crack me up. @next12, your ra ra ra is a classic! Love it.

We shall find out the chops of this team when they face UCLA next month. Recommend re-grouping then.

Hoping UConn destroys them!
 
Next 12 said:
I have to add 3 more names . Caroline, who will show Uconn fans how good she really is this year; Aaliyah, who will be even better this year and an AA and Nika ,who will be the DPOY for the third time. GO TEAM!!! GO HUSKIES!!!!
Expand ...
If Caroline were to be fully healthy, she would make four, count em, four players on this team that I’m pretty sure would start on any team in the country! That’s pretty strong!
 
Bone Dog said:
I get the temptation to put LSU at the top. But Charlie gives in to it too easily. Kim's got a formula -- lots of 'personalities' (as she describes them) and a creampuff schedule. With a little luck it worked for them last season. She could well repeat this season.

The thing is, I find it hard to believe LSU will beat SC this season, and they could conceivably lose to them 3 times. I also wonder if they'll manage to beat Tennessee. Charlie's speculations will look pretty bad if they take 4 or more losses in conference. In any event, I'd definitely put them behind Utah, SC, and Va Tech any of whom seems likely to beat them handily.

Who does this leave in the 1 & 2 spots? Well, someone's gotta follow the Huskies. Might as well be the Bruins.
www.espn.com

LSU, UConn, UCLA headline Way-Too-Early Top 25 for 2023-24

With plenty of player movement and top stars back, the women's college basketball race is wide open. But everyone starts out looking up at LSU.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
Expand ...
They have more talent on paper than anyone. Returning players, freshman and transfers they are a superteam. That doesn't guarantee a title but they should be better that SC and I think TN is overrated after losing there one true ball handler, and there best three point shooter
 
Geew1992 said:
LSU won the championship and until someone beats them, they should be number 1. And Crème isn’t the only one to put LSU at 1. Every one is ranking them #1
Expand ...
By that logic, If Iowa wins the championship this year and Clark leaves for the WNBA, Iowa still starts next season as number 1? There is no way that would happen.
 
asuwish said:
They have more talent on paper than anyone. Returning players, freshman and transfers they are a superteam. That doesn't guarantee a title but they should be better that SC and I think TN is overrated after losing there one true ball handler, and there best three point shooter
Expand ...
Do they really have “more talent on paper?”

South Carolina has probably more(unproven) paper talent at least at the high school talent /prospect level. Every player on the roster was a top 25 ranked prospect except one freshman (Jah) who was around 40 ( with Quadence Samuel) and led her team to a hs national championship.

Of course, paper is just paper - not hardwood. the two teams will play 3/4 of their season before they face off.
 
visitingcock said:
Do they really have “more talent on paper?”

South Carolina has probably more(unproven) paper talent at least at the high school talent /prospect level. Every player on the roster was a top 25 ranked prospect except one freshman (Jah) who was around 40 ( with Quadence Samuel) and led her team to a hs national championship.

Of course, paper is just paper - not hardwood. the two teams will play 3/4 of their season before they face off.
Expand ...
This may sound strange to some but SC may be harder to beat this year. Who says Raven Johnson even starts by the end of the year. The past few years SC was so big and strong they just physically overwhelmed team, and I mean within the rules, but outside shooting was the one weakness so teams packed it in. With the transfer from OR, and the freshman of they can both flat out shoot it. I think there are five or six super deep teams that can win it and SC is one of them.
 
.-.
AgStatesman said:
By that logic, If Iowa wins the championship this year and Clark leaves for the WNBA, Iowa still starts next season as number 1? There is no way that would happen.
Expand ...
In that scenario I would let them start as #1. To do otherwise would be to say the remaining players and recruits are dog poop. I say let them prove they are dog poop. Or said another way, let other teams prove they are dog poop.

It's the whole "on paper" argument. What you are saying is that "on paper" they are not #1. The game isn't and should never be played "on paper".
 
Skeets said:
In that scenario I would let them start as #1. To do otherwise would be to say the remaining players and recruits are dog poop. I say let them prove they are dog poop. Or said another way, let other teams prove they are dog poop.

It's the whole "on paper" argument. What you are saying is that "on paper" they are not #1. The game isn't and should never be played "on paper".
Expand ...
I get the “prove it” idea. But “paper” is more complicated than you let on given its influence on the seedings, as I explained above. If a coach figures out how to game the committee and the journalists, he or she can turn a portal-patchwork team into a top seed and avoid face many (maybe almost all) real teams on the way to an NC. We would all consider this anti-competitive. And this is without considering the impact on recruiting.

When fans indulge such things it is only natural. After all, many BYers have complained that Geno didn’t find another big in the portal almost every year. But he has learned over many years that you can’t build a team that way, and we sometimes forget it. Yes, he takes a few transfers, but only if he thinks they can fit into a team concept. And he prefers it when they’ve satisfied their commitment to their first team. Evina was an exception, but there were special circumstances in that case, as we’ve all heard.

Journalists shouldn’t write and think as fans do. They have a responsibility to the integrity of the game they cover. It’s not enough to report what fans already hope or fear. Or to treat the game like it’s a popularity contest. They have much better access than we do. Their job is precisely to prognosticate, to say what’s likely at any given moment. Assuming last year’s champion should be ranked #1 is not doing that job. Worse, it plays into the hands of coaches who don’t care about teams or the integrity of the game. We all remember the reckless speculations journalists used to indulge in to the effect that UConn was bad for the game for no other reason than that Geno was a great coach. What Creme and others like him are doing now is as bad (and as bad for the game) as those reckless remarks were.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing ND's Hannah Hidalgo become a superstar.
Whether ND wins or loses many games or not she should be exciting to watch.
 
Last edited:
Bone Dog said:
I like Carl Adamec's compromise position. He has LSU as #1 "until they lose". Of course, given their schedule, it may not happen until VPI... unless, of course, Colorado stands tall on opening day.
www.ctinsider.com

Where does UConn women's basketball land on our preseason AP Top 25 ballot?

Our AP Top 25 ballot features LSU at the top. Where does UConn women's basketball team land in the preseason poll?
www.ctinsider.com www.ctinsider.com
Expand ...
I believe Colorado is returning everyone from a team that made the Sweet Sixteen, no? I wouldn't be surprised at all if LSU stumbled out the gates with them.
 
fwiw , Massey has the following ranking which seems to be settled as it's preseason ranking. (it was in fluctuation last week). As we all know and they will admit, it's pretty much garbage until ten or more games have been played. I do find the strength of schedule forward to be interesting:.

TeamRecordΔRatPwrOffDefHFASoSSSFEWEL
South Carolina
NCAA		0-0
0.000		1
9.46		1
74.09		4
101.54		1
37.38		2.642
0.00		1
56.29		25.753.25
Stanford
NCAA		0-0
0.000		2
9.09		2
69.22		9
100.21		3
33.85		2.602
0.00		20
52.95		25.984.02
Connecticut
NCAA		0-0
0.000		3
9.04		3
68.56		8
100.26		4
33.14		2.672
0.00		10
54.83		25.245.76
Iowa
NCAA		0-0
0.000		4
8.83		4
65.88		1
106.43		78
24.29		2.562
0.00		3
55.46		21.266.74
Indiana
NCAA		0-0
0.000		5
8.83		5
65.83		7
100.46		21
30.21		2.642
0.00		14
54.47		21.666.34
Maryland
NCAA		0-0
0.000		6
8.80		6
65.39		3
102.80		40
27.42		2.702
0.00		2
55.58		21.587.42
LSU
NCAA		0-0
0.000		7
8.76		8
64.70		13
99.06		19
30.47		2.552
0.00		53
50.64		26.105.90
NC State
NCAA		0-0
0.000		8
8.75		7
64.75		14
98.63		13
30.96		2.692
0.00		6
55.04		22.407.60
Virginia Tech
NCAA		0-0
0.000		9
8.72		10
64.18		18
97.50		8
31.51		2.642
0.00		11
54.78		21.157.85
Tennessee
NCAA		0-0
0.000		10
8.72		9
64.20		10
99.75		26
29.28		2.712
0.00		4
55.33		19.948.06
Texas
NCAA		0-0
0.000		11
8.71		11
64.02		26
96.33		5
32.53		2.662
0.00		48
50.92		24.876.13
Louisville
NCAA		0-0
0.000		12
8.71		12
63.99		15
98.40		20
30.42		2.622
0.00		12
54.58		22.848.16
Notre Dame
NCAA		0-0
0.000		13
8.66		13
63.39		20
97.34		15
30.88		2.692
0.00		9
54.86		22.108.90
Iowa St
NCAA		0-0
0.000		14
8.61		14
62.82		12
99.06		31
28.59		2.702
0.00		38
51.68		22.176.83
Ohio St
NCAA		0-0
0.000		15
8.60		15
62.64		5
101.15		51
26.32		2.672
0.00		7
55.02		20.198.81
North Carolina
NCAA		0-0
0.000		16
8.58		17
62.24		28
95.78		10
31.29		2.732
0.00		8
54.98		18.989.02
Baylor
NCAA		0-0
0.000		17
8.56		16
62.24		19
97.46		24
29.62		2.672
0.00		25
52.62		21.447.56
UCLA
NCAA		0-0
0.000		18
8.55		20
61.86		29
95.78		14
30.91		2.622
0.00		5
55.30		18.709.30
Oregon
NCAA		0-0
0.000		19
8.55		19
61.99		16
97.85		29
28.98		2.772
0.00		51
50.69		13.434.57
Utah
NCAA		0-0
0.000		20
8.54		18
62.00		6
100.58		55
26.25		2.702
0.00		49
50.77		10.954.05
Arizona
NCAA		0-0
0.000		21
8.52		21
61.61		22
96.73		23
29.72		2.632
0.00		40
51.50		13.284.72
Duke
NCAA		0-0
0.000		22
8.51		22
61.36		69
91.80		2
34.39		2.622
0.00		13
54.48		19.8110.19
Colorado
NCAA		0-0
0.000		23
8.48		23
60.98		35
94.84		12
30.98		2.682
0.00		39
51.60		11.594.41
Michigan
NCAA		0-0
0.000		24
8.46		24
60.74		23
96.55		28
29.02		2.632
0.00		34
51.93		20.187.82
Mississippi
NCAA		0-0
0.000		25
8.44		25
60.37		44
93.66		6
31.55		2.612
0.00		37
51.69		19.177.83
 
.-.
asuwish said:
This may sound strange to some but SC may be harder to beat this year. Who says Raven Johnson even starts by the end of the year. The past few years SC was so big and strong they just physically overwhelmed team, and I mean within the rules, but outside shooting was the one weakness so teams packed it in. With the transfer from OR, and the freshman of they can both flat out shoot it. I think there are five or six super deep teams that can win it and SC is one of them.
Expand ...
I think South Carolina being harder to beat this year depends on if Dawn Staley is able to create a formidable half court offensive system imo. South Carolina was defensively elite the last few years in large part because of Boston's ability to defend down low and even around the perimeter and offensively elite because of their dominance on the boards. They lost a lot what was driving their dominance on both sides of the ball and don't have the personnel to replicate it, which means the efficiency will have to come through in other ways.

They may have more raw talent that last year but I'd be curious on how they utilize it, as they'd have to look quite different on both sides of the ball to put it all together. At least in my opinion.
 
Next 12 said:
I have to add 3 more names . Caroline, who will show Uconn fans how good she really is this year; Aaliyah, who will be even better this year and an AA and Nika ,who will be the DPOY for the third time. GO TEAM!!! GO HUSKIES!!!!
Expand ...
I’d add Ice to these names- she is really good
 
hoopsnloops32 said:
I think South Carolina being harder to beat this year depends on if Dawn Staley is able to create a formidable half court offensive system imo. South Carolina was defensively elite the last few years in large part because of Boston's ability to defend down low and even around the perimeter and offensively elite because of their dominance on the boards. They lost a lot what was driving their dominance on both sides of the ball and don't have the personnel to replicate it, which means the efficiency will have to come through in other ways.

They may have more raw talent that last year but I'd be curious on how they utilize it, as they'd have to look quite different on both sides of the ball to put it all together. At least in my opinion.
Expand ...
We are as tall as last year. We should not lose much in the way of rebounding.

I'm not saying we wont drop a notch this year, but we are as tall and athletic as ever.
 
hoopsnloops32 said:
I think South Carolina being harder to beat this year depends on if Dawn Staley is able to create a formidable half court offensive system imo. South Carolina was defensively elite the last few years in large part because of Boston's ability to defend down low and even around the perimeter and offensively elite because of their dominance on the boards. They lost a lot what was driving their dominance on both sides of the ball and don't have the personnel to replicate it, which means the efficiency will have to come through in other ways.

They may have more raw talent that last year but I'd be curious on how they utilize it, as they'd have to look quite different on both sides of the ball to put it all together. At least in my opinion.
Expand ...
You may be right. But I suspect that SC's inexperience will not really matter. They are still going to be taller and faster than the rest of the SEC in the front court, and their back court could well be better than last season.
 
visitingcock said:
We are as tall as last year. We should not lose much in the way of rebounding.

I'm not saying we wont drop a notch this year, but we are as tall and athletic as ever.
Expand ...
I never said you weren't as tall and athletic as ever. But there are more important factors when it comes to rebounding than height and athleticism. I don't see rebound offense being a viable strategy offensively for South Carolina next year as it was this year with Boston, who drew 3-4 defenders each possession, opening up rebounds for everyone. With the influx of backcourt talent coming in I would hope you wouldn't need to resort to that kind of offensive either.
 
asuwish said:
This may sound strange to some but SC may be harder to beat this year. Who says Raven Johnson even starts by the end of the year. The past few years SC was so big and strong they just physically overwhelmed team, and I mean within the rules, but outside shooting was the one weakness so teams packed it in. With the transfer from OR, and the freshman of they can both flat out shoot it. I think there are five or six super deep teams that can win it and SC is one of them.
Expand ...
Yeah, SC is certainly a threat to win it all. Obviously, assuming good health for all, the champion is most likely going to come from the “Big Three”! If they slip up? I’m not really liking anyone else’s chances but if I were forced to chose a “little three” I suppose I’d have to go with ; Texas, Notre Dame, and UCLA not necessarily in that order.
Texas because they have Vic who imo is a top 4 coach, Rori Harmon, one of the great pgs in the country, a solid big in Jones, decent talent around them and a very good freshman in Madison Booker!
Notre Dame because the only thing keeping them “little” is Olivia Miles injury. However, they have a freshman pg, Hannah Hidalgo, who may be one of the rare freshmen who can step up and be great from the getgo. If she can keep the ship afloat until Miles returns, they have the talent to make a run this season.
UCLA is a tough choice here for me because I don’t think Close is all that great. However, she does have some real talent on this team and has just been gifted with Lauren Betts, a 6’7” big who could potentially turn this team into a real threat. They also have Kiki Rice and Charisma Osborne who could team with Betts to form one of the top threesomes in the country. Imo, Betts will determine how far they can go.
Everyone is gaga over LSU and they are obviously one of the “Big Three” but for me, I think SC, even now, is simply a better team. Having said that, I think any one of, UConn, SC, or LSU should win it all. Obviously, I think it will be us, but those other two are very close.
I don’t see anyone else winning the title unless something freaky happens. As good as Clark is, I just don’t think Iowa has the horses, Virginia Tech has Kitley, but not enough around her, Maryland, is Maryland, and Ohio State, who unbelievably imo, Creme has as a 1 seed, just doesn’t impress me. I do think NC could be a dark horse. Berube is a very good coach and is steadily improving her roster!
Those are my choices: three favorites, three contenders, one dark horse.
Who wins? I think we all know the answer to that (rather silly) question!
 
.-.
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