Another nail in the UT recruiting coffin?

[HuskyNan]

Where is this gloating?

The usual suspects, in the massive ND-Tenn thread.

 

[Bestiarius]

while the TN brand is strong, we shouldn't under estimate the importance of Pat to the program. I believe believe many recruits have gone to TN mostly because she was the coach. Similarly, many Attended UCLA because of coach Wooden and as was mentioned above, look at what happened there.

I wonder how many potential recruits read The SUmmiTT. That alone would discourage most from attending TN. The vitriolic attacks on coaches, players, and other posters plus the very poor writing skills of many contributors is astounding for a site associated with a university.

 

[Icebear]

Tennessee will be just fine in the years ahead. They have been a top tier program since the NCAA took over WCBB. Nothing lasts forever. UConn went four years without a Final Four and they are far from dead. I really wish this board would spend less time gloating over the demise of top coaches and programs and remain concerned about the future of WCBB. the game does not grow without top, high-profile players, coaches and programs. If they die, so does the chances of growing the game; Especially of there are no up and coming programs making major moves to become consistently top-tier competitive.

I see absolutely no gloating over Pat's situation at all. It is tragic and a battle that can not be won.

 

[alexrgct]

Brands have value, but that value fades quicker than some might think. UCLA men were a bigger name than UConn is now, or the LadyVols in their heyday, and they went through years of not making the tournament, much less in the conversation for possible FF. I’m still wrapping my head about a UConn player asking who that was attending a practice (it was Jamelle). I don’t bring this up as a slight to the player, because when I was that age, I had almost no appreciation for the past, but we should remember that, while we seasoned fans have a deep respect for the rich history of the sport, many of the recruits don’t share that view. How many top ten players are signing on at Old Dominion because they were such an important part of the wbb legacy?

I believe UCLA's situation and Tennessee's are apples and oranges comparisons. As is Tennessee and ODU's.

For one thing, we're talking about a program that has been a top three program for over 30 years. Can't say that about ODU or even UCLA in 1977.

For another thing, we're talking about women's basketball. Well-funded programs with well-attended games, top notch facilities, and television support do not grow on trees. UCLA was THE dominant program in MBB for a period, but there were plenty other programs ready AND ABLE to step in. Meanwhile, even if Tennessee loses more recruiting battles than they're used to to Duke, Maryland, Baylor, etc., they're still going to get lot of talented kids. As such,even if there's a decline from top three-caliber program, which wouldn't surprise me, I think the degree of that decline stops at top 10, not off a cliff.

 

[jennyo70]

Mercedes and Diamond both tweeted to the effect of " blow out, SMH" and turned the game off. STephanie Mavunga was caught on camera, near front row of an endzone( perhaps an unofficial?), has offers from both teams as well as others. She, with a wisdom I would say is beyond her years never commented, other than having been at the game. Won't speculate on what it means for them, just reporting the facts.

As my family is starting the process of recruiting for volleyball for our kiddo, it ABSOLUTELY would effect my decision for my daughter. That being said, it is not MY decision, and I would present the facts and make sure my daughter knows the implication of those facts. I would discourage such a choice, with the current scenario, but ultimately it would( will) be my daughters decision. That being said, if changes are made after this season, it could even out by the time she would need to decide( she is a freshman). I would think the current junior class it will impact the most(2013).

 

[jsloanjr]

Did you see the Post game press conf after the ND game? The UT coaches looked lost on what to say and its time for the BOT to step in and make changes ASAP.......Holly is lost and the players look like a team in the river without a rudder...

 

[vtcwbuff]

"gloating over the demise of top coaches . . . "

I hadn't read any of that but I then I did not read the ND/UT game thread. A little gloating about the team's loss though is probably directed more towards denizens of another message board. Some might call it Karma if you believe in that sort of thing.

 

[Phil]

Before we completely bury the future of TN lets get a grip - TN is a much bigger institution with much greater resources than LaTech or ODU so while they may be in for a down time, they are much more likely to similar to Texas in terms of a drop off.

You mean the team that is under .500 in conference play, and not in the Top 25, not even making the list of teams getting votes?

[edit: Oops sorry Speedo, didn't see your post when I wrote that - great minds and all that...]

 

[Icebear]

"gloating over the demise of top coaches . . . "

I hadn't read any of that but I then I did not read the ND/UT game thread. A little gloating about the team's loss though is probably directed more towards denizens of another message board. Some might call it Karma if you believe in that sort of thing.

That took place but no gloating over Pat.

 

[semper]

None of us are happy about the situation with Pat. Repeatedly we have expressed our sadness and our compassion on the Yard.

We do discuss the situation, but only because it is such an important program, and we know it's in trouble. The rivalry has been long and strong, so it is hard to feel desperately sorry for the wins/losses ratio and the quality of play. UConn fans don't cheer for UT; it is not our nature. Of course we know, too, as surely UT does, that until the coaching situation is dealt with and fixed, they will not be up to the level of the storied program of old. On some level there is regret about that, even here.

 

[UConner]

Two full days after, the fanatics down there are not handling it well, and this was a regular season out of conference road game. You have to sense they sense it is over for a long time, and the complete rebuilding will take a long time. You have to hand it to them, they care, they really care, but the solution will be long and painful.

 

[EricLA]

Two full days after, the fanatics down there are not handling it well, and this was a regular season out of conference road game. You have to sense they sense it is over for a long time, and the complete rebuilding will take a long time. You have to hand it to them, they care, they really care, but the solution will be long and painful.

one thing to add to that IMHO is that of course they are thrilled with the recruits they are getting - Massengale, Burdick and Graves are top 10. Carter is top 20. Jones-vaughn and Harrison are top 30 kids.

BUT Bjorkland was #2. Baugh was #4? Johnson, Stricklen, and Grey were top 10 and Brewer, Cain and Manning were top 20 (i think i got those right more or less).

my point is that if the staff can't coach Bjorkland, Baugh, Johnson and Stricklen to NC's, what makes them think that leeser recruits Massengale, Burdick and Graves will take them to the promised land? i think that's what is not setting in. they want to point to injuries to Cain for her lack of effectiveness and leaving (isn't she overseas scoring in bunches now?) and Brewer for her commitment to fitness, or whatever, which is fine. but why couldn't they win NC's with 7 top 20 players?

how is the team going to be any better once Baugh, Stricklen, Manning, and Johnson all leave? they better hope that in spite of the troubles, that Reimer, Muvunga, Russell, Deshields and Scaife all decide to come. honestly, i'd not be surprised to see none of them end up at tennessee...

 

[huskyrob1]

Did you see the Post game press conf after the ND game? The UT coaches looked lost on what to say and its time for the BOT to step in and make changes ASAP.......Holly is lost and the players look like a team in the river without a rudder...

I've resisted at commenting on the Tenn situation up till now but will give my 2 cents on it. If the Tenn AD and pres are smart they will clean house after Pat retires at the end of the season, and I don't mean "clean house" in a negative sense. After Pat retires the current coaching staff should be politely let go and the Tenn powers that be should hire a top male coach and offer him big bucks, by that I mean Gary Blair, Jeff Walz, Kevin Macduff, or Mike Carey. As long as they do this soon with the Pat Summit aura and the legend remaining fresh in everyones mind (including recruits) any of these guys will have no problem at all getting the top 1,2, or 3 recruiting class in succeeding years. What it would also do is immediately renew the UCONN/Tenn rivalry and will help the game in general, and will bring a fresh defensive and offensive game philosophy, as well as new ideas and different ideas on player developement be it guards or bigs. It will be great also to see Pat continue to come to the games and sit right behind the bench as Wooden, Ray Meyer, and Adolph Rupp did after they retired. I think a Gary Blair type at Tenn would mean that they might not miss a beat in his 1st year and would be great for the sport.

 

[sarals24]

If I were them I would hire someone younger with a track record at a smaller mid-major school, like Marist, Green-Bay Wisc, etc. I don't see Blair ever leaving A&M, and there's no point in hiring a coach that close to retirement anyway. I would get a young guy in (or woman) give them a two-year trial contract, and try to build. Mid-major coaches like that have experience getting the most out of their players, and if they had the resources and support of UT than they might be able to bring that attitude to a bigger talent pool.

I also like the St. John's coach, I could see her being very popular there. I agree that it would be important for them to renew the UConn rivalry right away, just to change the culture there and give them a measuring stick in terms of progress.

 

[Wbbfan1]

When there were two athletic departments at Tenn, one for women and one for men, I thought no way would they hire a man to coach the women. Now that there is only one Athletic Department there is a possibility that they would consider hiring a man. However, I don't see it happening. I think the Old Girl Network would consider it a betrayal and would lobby hard against it. Its one thing for a program trying to improve to become an elite team to hire a male, but Tenn one of the premiere programs hire a male, hard to fathom. If it did happen, it would make it more difficult in the future for a woman to get hired at any of the elite WBB schools.

I think Tenn will first look at coaches that have Tenn in their family tree to replace Pat. If it turns out, that there isn't an acceptable candidate, they will then look to hire the best qualified woman. One name that I thought of that might fit in at Tenn would be Terri Williams-Flournoy of Georgetown. Her teams play a hard nose defense with a never give up attitude. I would think she would be acceptable to the Tenn fan and would see it as a good hire.

I'm still of the opinion that Pat's son Tyler might eventually become the head coach, but if Pat decides to retire at the end of this year, it would be too soon for him to take over.

Even if Tenn gets their act together and win the National Championship this year, the Tenn AD will need to make some changes in their coaching staff.

 

[HuskyNan]

Any way we can move on? The same thoughts are simply being rephrased and reposted at this point.

 

[Tonyc]

As Ive said before there are big problems at TN. Lack of disipline, lack of execution and lack of defense. Now let me preface this by saying its not the entire team. For the past 4+ years there has been a lack of disipline. How do I know that? I know and heres one example. Think back to Ball State. After that loss Pat put the kids through a rigourous training. She worked their butts off to get the to respond. It didnt entirely work. Some players responded some didnt. Since that point players have left and the program and TN dosnt look like the TN program of old. My post about Kelley Cain yesterday playing in Turkey makes me wonder. She left TN and is now playing in Turkey. Yes she was a 5th year senior coming back from an injury but leave with all that veteran talent?

Yes TN has won alot of games over the past 4 seasons, however their schedule and conference are weaker. This year their OOC schedule is a little tuffer and theyre losing more. The ND game has shown how far TN has regressed. I sound like a broken record but with all that talent they shouldnt be stuggling. They are much better on paper then theyre showing on the court.

If you read the other boards there are posts talking about some kids on the team that arent putting out effort that arent coachable. Ive been saying for 4 seasons TN needs a point guard to take charge and run the team. They got a good one in Ariel. As a freshman there is alot of pressure on her to save the team and get them to the FF. Why is the team not responding like a championship team? What I see this season is lack of execution and not getting the veteran players involved. Not enough touches, not enough plays to get them going and not executing plays the coaches wanted them to execute. Whos fault is that? Some players arent working their game plan or at least thats whats been printed.

Annoiting Ariel before she arrived at TN didnt help. She had nothing to earn she was handed the position. To come out and say that before she arrived isnt fair to the rest of the team. It also put alot of pressure on her. Last season Simmons appeared to be the go to player. Now it appears Ariel is in charge. Thats a big respondsibility for a freshman. In any event after watching the ND game it appeared to me the two guards were not working together, two different agendas. Clashing if you will.

Whats happened this season? To me it looks like and Im pretty sure of this that there is a problem between Massingale and Simmons. Ariel was anointed this season before she ever got to TN and the Simmons was annointed last season Now youve got Stricklen and Johnson and Baugh all veteran players who arent getting enough touchs and not having enough plays run through them. Baugh has surprised me. After all her injuries shes playing very well. I didnt think she would be this good this quick. My feeling is Baugh Stricklen and Johnson should be more involved. There is a lack of that.

Watching the ND game and reading the Summitt the fans were calling for the coaches to clear the bench and sit some of the starters. It all comes down to leadership and coaching. After the game the players said they didnt execute what they were suppose to???????? What does that tell you? I use an ole saying if you cant change your people then you need to change your people. In TNs case if theyre going to turn their program around they need to to sit the kids who are not doing what theyre told and let them rid the pine. TN cant worry about wins and losses. They need to get their program on track. The attitudes of some of the players stink. The coaches need to get this team going in the right direction which means running the offence and playing hard defense. Play those kids who are willing to do that, and sit the others until they come around. If you dont the kids are running the team not the coaches as evidenced at ND.

As far as the recruts coming to TN. I wouldnt be surprised if there were some decommits. Until TN coaches change their approach to the team and get everybody on the same page and play those who earn playtime by doing what theyre told they wont have to worry about recruits. Right now there is an "I" in TEAM at TN. That needs to stop immediately.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Any way we can move on? The same thoughts are simply being rephrased and reposted at this point.

Apparently not

 

[Biff]

Apparently not

Stole my line as I was about to write it....

 

[Kibitzer]

Before you write off Tennessee's future recruiting, you must take into consideration that they now have a new recruiting tool that may give them an edge over their competition.

The FBI.

Think of the meticulous background checks that they will have access to. Maybe even an opportunity for a little blackmail or extortion.

Inquiring minds may never know.

 

[HuskyNan]

I'm going to let Kibitz, who was grievously wronged in the complaint a few years ago, have the final word but then I'm locking the thread. No good can come from continued interboard bickering.