Angel Not Playing Tonight. Maybe Suspended Indefinitely

[UcMiami]

1. That chart ignores that most of the players that are sitting out with the same injuries prior to the Olympics. What is the control that the chart is being compared to? You know the same type of complaints about the Olympics and World Championships get raised on the NBA side too full of anecdotal evidence of player injuries. When someone actually truly studied the impact of playing the national team what do you think the conclusion was?

Just to clarify - I just posted that to show that a number of WNBA players coming back from the Olympics were having issues - and was not trying to compare it to anything - saying it is not just Diana not playing for Merc and Angel having issues in Atlanta. I respect all these players and do not envy the life they are 'forced' to lead to pursue their craft when compared to most other pro athletes.

 

[easttexastrash]

Mechelle making more or less the same points form Liz G's perspective in a new piece.

http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/8314901/wnba-liz-cambage-prepares-pro-stint-china

This article magnifies the point that I was making, which is that the WNBA is suffering when these top players overextend themselves and then they can't or won't honor their commitments to the WNBA. The WNBA is not very strong and needs its stars to show up and play, even if not 100%.

At least Cambage just came out and said it. But Tulsa certainly needs her. They are going to lose some ticket sales due to her absence.

Maybe the WNBA is destined not to last due to the low salaries. It is an embarrassment that a player can make 10 times in China what they can make in the US.

Can you imagine if the US Open paid tennis players $150,000 for winning the tournament while the Aussie, French and Wimbledon paid $1.5 million? Female players did have to fight for equal pay at the majors. The WNBA player may at some point be forced to refuse to play if their salaries don't increase.

 

[meganmatthews]

You will soon see the WNBA either fold or become a side show with second rate players. You can make twice the money over seas and they treat you like superstars. What a joke.

 

[easttexastrash]

Just to clarify - I just posted that to show that a number of WNBA players coming back from the Olympics were having issues - and was not trying to compare it to anything - saying it is not just Diana not playing for Merc and Angel having issues in Atlanta. I respect all these players and do not envy the life they are 'forced' to lead to pursue their craft when compared to most other pro athletes.

Is it that unique to basketball players that they have to travel the world to make a decent living at their sport? Other than tennis and golf, which other sports can women make top dollar if they stay primarily in the US? Even athletes in those sports have to travel the world to get a good payday. At least team-sport athletes get to live in one city. Athletes in individual sports probably have to travel much more.

 

[easttexastrash]

You will soon see the WNBA either fold or become a side show with second rate players. You can make twice the money over seas and they treat you like superstars. What a joke.

I agree. The league pays low and thus the players may develop half-hearted attitudes toward the league. This post-Olympic sabbatical period may be the first real sign of this.

 

[alexrgct]

The thing is, I don't believe there's a women's professional league that has a sounder business model than he wnba...and the wnba relies on the profitability of the nba in its own right. The overseas salaries are more a product of there being owners who like to have a winning WBB team for its own sake than they are WBB being super profitable in Europe. How sustainable that all is remains to be seen.

 

[easttexastrash]

The thing is, I don't believe there's a women's professional league that has a sounder business model than he wnba...and the wnba relies on the profitability of the nba in its own right. The overseas salaries are more a product of there being owners who like to have a winning WBB team for its own sake than they are WBB being super profitable in Europe. How sustainable that all is remains to be seen.

Very good points.

If I had the money, I'd pay a lot to have Bird, DT, Griner, LJ and Catchings as my starting 5. That's MY dream team starting 5.

 

[UcMiami]

Wow - we went to complaining about a few athletes who may be exhausted to trashing the league! OK - I do not think any league can survive if it depends on the actions/health of 5 or 10 of its players. Tulsa is a terrible team this year, the Mercury have been devastated by injuries this year. Atlanta - seems to be imploding a bit. BUT - went to the Sun/Sky game on Sunday and that was a big crowd - with two USA players not playing (Asjha and Sylvia.) MN, LA, CT, SA,IN teams are playing great ball. Seattle is suddenly healthy and scares everybody. Is the league secure - absolutely not, but it is probably in as good or better shape as it has ever been, and the product is getting better every year. I love watching MN play. I love watching Tina and Sue play - would probably enjoy seeing LA and SA play if I ever caught their games.
So ... is it perfect - no. Is what has happened in the last two weeks or in the next four going to decide what happens in this league - no. Is the break for the Olympics ideal for the league - no, but does having twenty Olympic athletes playing in the league help - YES. And if 5 of them can't or will not - it still is better than not having any Olympic athletes and it will not be the casue of the league folding if it does sometime in the future.
And by the way - I think the Sun are as close as we get to a European situation - doubt the Mohegan Tribe are making anything on the team, but they had 1000s of extra people coming through their casino on Sunday, and I bet (yes) a few of them dropped some money in the slots or the games.
At some level cities and arenas may put some skin in the game as well as they're making some cash on the crowds that would not be there but for the WNBA games.

 

[easttexastrash]

Wow - we went to complaining about a few athletes who may be exhausted to trashing the league! OK - I do not think any league can survive if it depends on the actions/health of 5 or 10 of its players. Tulsa is a terrible team this year, the Mercury have been devastated by injuries this year. Atlanta - seems to be imploding a bit. BUT - went to the Sun/Sky game on Sunday and that was a big crowd - with two USA players not playing (Asjha and Sylvia.) MN, LA, CT, SA,IN teams are playing great ball. Seattle is suddenly healthy and scares everybody. Is the league secure - absolutely not, but it is probably in as good or better shape as it has ever been, and the product is getting better every year. I love watching MN play. I love watching Tina and Sue play - would probably enjoy seeing LA and SA play if I ever caught their games.
So ... is it perfect - no. Is what has happened in the last two weeks or in the next four going to decide what happens in this league - no. Is the break for the Olympics ideal for the league - no, but does having twenty Olympic athletes playing in the league help - YES. And if 5 of them can't or will not - it still is better than not having any Olympic athletes and it will not be the casue of the league folding if it does sometime in the future.
And by the way - I think the Sun are as close as we get to a European situation - doubt the Mohegan Tribe are making anything on the team, but they had 1000s of extra people coming through their casino on Sunday, and I bet (yes) a few of them dropped some money in the slots or the games.
At some level cities and arenas may put some skin in the game as well as they're making some cash on the crowds that would not be there but for the WNBA games.

Well said. I love having the WNBA to watch. I want these players to play to help secure the future of the league and not put it at risk.

I would be highly disappointed if BG couldn't play in the US. That holds true for the next generation. I hope the players realize how important their dedication is to the next generation.

 

[Scotter]

The Sun were the first team to publicly report a profit even without counting any of the gambling. Although there is no doubt the Sun are just happy to get potential gamblers in the building and would probably be perfectly happy operating the Sun at a reasonable loss.

The closest thing to a European situation is actually the American college system because there is no corresponding college athletic system in Europe. The money spent on coaches' salaries and player scholarships is artificially high and heavily subsidized largely due to government mandates, despite the majority of programs generating little to no revenue and only a few programs out of hundreds coming even close to breaking even. And within that system there are huge inequities in the resources and subsidies available to individual teams. Like Europe and unlike the WNBA the labor market is essentially open. Programs can only offer scholarship instead of a salary, but outside of that programs are free to spend as much as they want on their players. Charter flights, foreign trips, video game systems in the lounge area, etc. Like Europe most of the basketball players are on endless bus rides, but a few programs treat their players like superstars. You have national leagues which operate much like college conferences and then the Euroleague is effectively out of conference play and ending in the equivalent in the NCAA tournament.

And by the way - I think the Sun are as close as we get to a European situation - doubt the Mohegan Tribe are making anything on the team, but they had 1000s of extra people coming through their casino on Sunday, and I bet (yes) a few of them dropped some money in the slots or the games.

 

[easttexastrash]

The Sun were the first team to publicly report a profit even without counting any of the gambling. Although there is no doubt the Sun are just happy to get potential gamblers in the building and would probably be perfectly happy operating the Sun at a reasonable loss.

The closest thing to a European situation is actually the American college system because there is no corresponding college athletic system in Europe. The money spent on coaches' salaries and player scholarships is artificially high and heavily subsidized largely due to government mandates, despite the majority of programs generating little to no revenue and only a few programs out of hundreds coming even close to breaking even. And within that system there are huge inequities in the resources and subsidies available to individual teams. Like Europe and unlike the WNBA the labor market is essentially open. Programs can only offer scholarship instead of a salary, but outside of that programs are free to spend as much as they want on their players. Charter flights, foreign trips, video game systems in the lounge area, etc. Like Europe most of the basketball players are on endless bus rides, but a few programs treat their players like superstars. You have national leagues which operate much like college conferences and then the Euroleague is effectively out of conference play and ending in the equivalent in the NCAA tournament.

Great insight and perception.

 

[CL82]

Eh, I don't know, I mean there no way anyone is stealing that monitor.

 

[UcMiami]

The Sun were the first team to publicly report a profit even without counting any of the gambling. Although there is no doubt the Sun are just happy to get potential gamblers in the building and would probably be perfectly happy operating the Sun at a reasonable loss.

Thanks - I suspect though if you looked closely at their and other teams' financials you would find the Sun expenses related to their rent of the arena was significantly different (read lower) than the other teams. That was one of the major reasons they ended up their when they moved the franchise.

Edit and correction - in my earlier post I confused the Tribe with the Team - The Mohegan Tribe does not own the team. What they did was put together an offer to the team owners to entice them to locate at their arena - something that I referred to in that post regarding the possibility of arenas/cities putting 'skin' in the game. Arena costs are a significant part of the overhead of operating any team.

 

[UcMiami]

Is it that unique to basketball players that they have to travel the world to make a decent living at their sport? Other than tennis and golf, which other sports can women make top dollar if they stay primarily in the US? Even athletes in those sports have to travel the world to get a good payday. At least team-sport athletes get to live in one city. Athletes in individual sports probably have to travel much more.

There really isn't anything comparable to WBB - a team sport with two seasons, one in the USA and one overseas. In individual sports (and things like beach VB) the athletes have a year around home where they do all their practice, and then travel to specific events and they can choose not to play in specific events whenever they feel like it - big difference from living 5 months in the US and 7 months overseas. I am not saying being a pro athlete in any sport is easy, but I do not think any other pro sport has quite the demands that WBB does.

 

[alexrgct]

Thanks - I suspect though if you looked closely at their and other teams' financials you would find the Sun expenses related to their rent of the arena was significantly different (read lower) than the other teams. That was one of the major reasons they ended up their when they moved the franchise.

Edit and correction - in my earlier post I confused the Tribe with the Team - The Mohegan Tribe does not own the team. What they did was put together an offer to the team owners to entice them to locate at their arena - something that I referred to in that post regarding the possibility of arenas/cities putting 'skin' in the game. Arena costs are a significant part of the overhead of operating any team.

Yes, the Sun are fairly unique, as their facilities costs are lower than most. Being in a casino also helps boost attendance because an indoor sport played during the summer isn't very appealing in regions where it gets cold in the winter. That notwithstanding, people go to the casinos year-round. Finally, the Sun have a number of UConn alumnae on the roster, and it's unique that there is a nearby WCBB program that a) has enough WNBA-caliber players to feed into that league and b) is popular enough that people cared if they did.

Two other teams declared a profit in 2011, per David Stern, though he didn't specify who they were. Their model may be one other teams can emulate.

 

[VAMike23]

Yes, the Sun are fairly unique, as their facilities costs are lower than most. Being in a casino also helps boost attendance because an indoor sport played during the summer isn't very appealing in regions where it gets cold in the winter. That notwithstanding, people go to the casinos year-round. Finally, the Sun have a number of UConn alumnae on the roster, and it's unique that there is a nearby WCBB program that a) has enough WNBA-caliber players to feed into that league and b) is popular enough that people cared if they did.

Two other teams declared a profit in 2011, per David Stern, though he didn't specify who they were. Their model may be one other teams can emulate.

I thought I heard on one recent broadcast or another that San Antonio is one of the other profitable teams. It was stated in a way that the information seemed solid. The third team I am less certain about hearing, but I think they said it was the Storm.