Allisha Gray Leaving UNC | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Allisha Gray Leaving UNC

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mtsuraider06 said:
Candace left because it was on Olympic year (2008), she was a guaranteed #1 pick, and had endorsement offers. She also wanted to start a family & get married, neither of which would happen had she stayed. Tennessee knew her freshman year that Candace would leave with her class, and Candace said it as well.

Diamond is a different situation all together. Also, Kaela Davis' role model was Candace, not Diamond.
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I am certainly not privy to the information you have. But DD was going to Tenn and then changed her mind. She went to UNC and then changed her mind. It seems to me that there is more than a smidgen of evidence that DD has reassessed her future and chosen a different course on more than one occasion.

It's quite possible that she will be the No 1 pick in 2017 if she chooses to leave while players such as Turner and Wilson, to name 2, could relegate her to No 3 or worse in 2018. Loyd left in part she was informed she would be No 1 this year while Stewart was going to be No 1 in 2016. It makes a big difference when you are negotiating with teams in Europe/China and when Nike comes around.

I am not saying it will happen but to say it won't given DD's history makes me wonder if this is just wishful thinking from within the Tenn program. These are the same group of coaches that listed Massengale as day-to-day for 2 months and who had no idea that Russell had bunions until after her freshman year.
 
Alydar said:
I am certainly not privy to the information you have. But DD was going to Tenn and then changed her mind. She went to UNC and then changed her mind. It seems to me that there is more than a smidgen of evidence that DD has reassessed her future and chosen a different course on more than one occasion.

It's quite possible that she will be the No 1 pick in 2017 if she chooses to leave while players such as Turner and Wilson, to name 2, could relegate her to No 3 or worse in 2018. Loyd left in part she was informed she would be No 1 this year while Stewart was going to be No 1 in 2016. It makes a big difference when you are negotiating with teams in Europe/China and when Nike comes around.

I am not saying it will happen but to say it won't given DD's history makes me wonder if this is just wishful thinking from within the Tenn program. These are the same group of coaches that listed Massengale as day-to-day for 2 months and who had no idea that Russell had bunions until after her freshman year.
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Russell didn't know how bad her feet were until she had surgery on the first one, and then had the second one.

Concussions are a very serious issue, and yes, can be day to day. It's not up to Tennessee to give medical updates on their players, especially if the player doesn't want the illness released. Draya Carter had knee surgery after the season, and it was only announced after she showed up to the softball game on crutches. Players don't have to release their records, and if they don't, the coaches can't comment on them.

DD was close to coming to Tennessee, but Pat's illness caused her to rethink her college career. She wanted to leave after her first week at UNC, but her mother, who was an AA at Tennessee, told her to stick it out for the year and honor the commitment she made, and then reevaluate after the season was over. She was miserable at UNC, and got out of there as quick as possible.

Again, completely different than Candace.
 
if UNC gets hit with NCAA sanctions could Gray get a wavier on sitting out for a year ?
 
John Glass said:
if UNC gets hit with NCAA sanctions could Gray get a wavier on sitting out for a year ?
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I think both she, and Washington, and any other player should be able to play without sitting a year.

Incoming freshmen should be able to leave if they choose as well, without sitting a year.
 
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triaddukefan said:
If I was Hatchell.... no way would I let Gray transfer to TN or SC
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Why? It's not like she needs anymore bad press. Remember Kansas State last year?

Hatchell has no reason to block a player from leaving her program to get an education and play basketball when her program is under NCAA investigation.
 
triaddukefan said:
If that game was anywhere other than Stanford's home floor.... UNC would have been in the Final 4 that season.
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Triad , I guess you have them pegged right with the moniker you have given them , UNC. Because that seems to be EXACTLY what has gotten them in this transfer frenzy situation.
 
John Glass said:
if UNC gets hit with NCAA sanctions could Gray get a wavier on sitting out for a year ?
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I don't think so John. The immediate elegibility is part of the sanctions/stipulations when the NCAA anounces the punishment. At least it was the case with Penn State. Gray & washington transferred ahead of the announcement of punishment. But who knows the NCAA makes up it's own rules.
 
mtsuraider06 said:
Why? It's not like she needs anymore bad press. Remember Kansas State last year?

Hatchell has no reason to block a player from leaving her program to get an education and play basketball when her program is under NCAA investigation.
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Good point about Romero and KSU last year. I have to go research because if I remember correctly KSU was blocking/restricting her transfer because it looked like she was following the departed KSU coach, KSU finally agreed to an out of conference transfer after much bad publicity, but then she still had to sit out a year, and then NCAA said she did not have to sit out a full year but no pending sanctioned were involved to the best of my knowledge.
 
mtsuraider06 said:
Russell didn't know how bad her feet were until she had surgery on the first one, and then had the second one.

Concussions are a very serious issue, and yes, can be day to day. It's not up to Tennessee to give medical updates on their players, especially if the player doesn't want the illness released. Draya Carter had knee surgery after the season, and it was only announced after she showed up to the softball game on crutches. Players don't have to release their records, and if they don't, the coaches can't comment on them.
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I totally agree with the privacy of players. But Tenn didn't say nothing, they said "day to day", so it wasn't like they were acting in the interests of Massengale's privacy. A concussion in which symptoms last beyond a week is serious. The correct statement should have been "out indefinitely" or else nothing. I would have been OK with indefinitely or saying nothing, but "day to day" was misleading at best.

As for Russell, if she was unaware until actual surgery of the seriousness of her bunions why did she resort to corrective surgery in the first place? Did she think "I have only slight pain but I'll have surgery involving breaking the bones of my foot"?Foot surgery isn't done unless the pain is substantial since it has inherent risk. To suggest that she had her bones broken and restructured without any prior complaint or obvious limitation is just unbelievable to me. If I was a coach and a player was telling me that she was having foot surgery I might ask about her level of pain. And again, I am in no way saying that it should have been made public. I'm saying that for a head coach to say after the fact that she and her staff had no idea that her prized freshman was playing with foot discomfort that limited her performance is beyond credibility. Even if the player kept silent, injury sufficient to later make a player resort to surgery should be observed by someone in the program, whether a coach or a trainer, and the player should have been questioned. You are suggesting that that the trainer, whom I assume wrapped her ankles before each game, didn't notice the bunions and say something to the coach?

DD was close to coming to Tennessee, but Pat's illness caused her to rethink her college career. She wanted to leave after her first week at UNC, but her mother, who was an AA at Tennessee, told her to stick it out for the year and honor the commitment she made, and then reevaluate after the season was over. She was miserable at UNC, and got out of there as quick as possible.

Again, completely different than Candace.
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You make my case. DD rethought her choice within a week of arriving at UNC? That was a full month or more before the first practice? This the same young lady who went on social media just months earlier and announced how excited she was to be going to UNC with the other 3 recruits. That to me is a textbook example of fickleness. Now I don't condemn her for changing her mind but I do say that anyone assuming that she won't do it again is whistling past the graveyard.

MTSU, I have a lot of respect for your posts but it seems to me you are reporting what the LV public relations people would like to be the truth. It's like asking a trainer how his horse is doing a week before the Derby. It's always "couldn't be better" :)
 
Alydar said:
I totally agree with the privacy of players. But Tenn didn't say nothing, they said "day to day", so it wasn't like they were acting in the interests of Massengale's privacy. A concussion in which symptoms last beyond a week is serious. The correct statement should have been "out indefinitely" or else nothing. I would have been OK with indefinitely or saying nothing, but "day to day" was misleading at best.

As for Russell, if she was unaware until actual surgery of the seriousness of her bunions why did she resort to corrective surgery in the first place? Did she think "I have only slight pain but I'll have surgery involving breaking the bones of my foot"?Foot surgery isn't done unless the pain is substantial since it has inherent risk. To suggest that she had her bones broken and restructured without any prior complaint or obvious limitation is just unbelievable to me. If I was a coach and a player was telling me that she was having foot surgery I might ask about her level of pain. And again, I am in no way saying that it should have been made public. I'm saying that for a head coach to say after the fact that she and her staff had no idea that her prized freshman was playing with foot discomfort that limited her performance is beyond credibility. Even if the player kept silent, injury sufficient to later make a player resort to surgery should be observed by someone in the program, whether a coach or a trainer, and the player should have been questioned. You are suggesting that that the trainer, whom I assume wrapped her ankles before each game, didn't notice the bunions and say something to the coach?



You make my case. DD rethought her choice within a week of arriving at UNC? That was a full month or more before the first practice? This the same young lady who went on social media just months earlier and announced how excited she was to be going to UNC with the other 3 recruits. That to me is a textbook example of fickleness. Now I don't condemn her for changing her mind but I do say that anyone assuming that she won't do it again is whistling past the graveyard.

MTSU, I have a lot of respect for your posts but it seems to me you are reporting what the LV public relations people would like to be the truth. It's like asking a trainer how his horse is doing a week before the Derby. It's always "couldn't be better" :)
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Why is DD a bad person, because she left UNC, but EDD isn't and she left UCOON? People act like you don't have a right to change your mind.
 
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Wbbfan1 said:
Mavunga is the only one left from the 2013 #1 Recruiting Class of Diamond DeShields, Allisha Gray, Jessica Washington and Stephanie Mavunga. Great things were predicted when class was signed.
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Here is my thought on this...this class was not a natural occurrence. It was contrived from the start...with DD orchestrating the massive sign-up as a "we come as a group". Haskell had too many scholarship players....so, a few of the players no doubt were spoken to and probably were encouraged to seek playing time elsewhere. It was a pretty crummy thing to do to kids that had committed to play for the North Carolina program. These were kids that wanted to play for North Carolina...and they were basically abandoned to make room for the "super stars". The karma was right from the begining and it appears that the basketball gods have taken their revenge. I feel bad for Mavunga and Haskell who has had to battle cancer only to watch her potential national championship class melt away before her eyes.

I have to wonder...how much did DD know before she transferred? Was she able to see the writing on the wall?
 
cferraro04 said:
Here is my thought on this...this class was not a natural occurrence. It was contrived from the start...with DD orchestrating the massive sign-up as a "we come as a group". Haskell had too many scholarship players....so, a few of the players no doubt were spoken to and probably were encouraged to seek playing time elsewhere. It was a pretty crummy thing to do to kids that had committed to play for the North Carolina program. These were kids that wanted to play for North Carolina...and they were basically abandoned to make room for the "super stars". The karma was right from the begining and it appears that the basketball gods have taken their revenge. I feel bad for Mavunga and Haskell who has had to battle cancer only to watch her potential national championship class melt away before her eyes.

I have to wonder...how much did DD know before she transferred? Was she able to see the writing on the wall?
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Before we get all teary-eyed about Ms Syl...
I know she was ill...
But let's not forget that she was dag smack in the middle of the worst (or one of the worst) cheating scandals in the history of the NCAA
And she is still in modified denial (like all the rest of those ).
I still can't believe what all of them are saying
And its about time for Prez Carol to call a meeting and tell all these athletic nitwits
that it happened on their watch (not hers)
And they better stop semi-denying their culpability or the academic regulator folks might find that they are in default of their probation and she would have to fire the lot of them.

And yes, I believe that the kids that transfer will get to play this season.
 
HGN said:
Triad , I guess you have them pegged right with the moniker you have given them , UNC. Because that seems to be EXACTLY what has gotten them in this transfer frenzy situation.
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I've been using it since my early days on here on the boneyard........ you guys were just a bit slower to catch on ;)
 
Go/huskies said:
Why is DD a bad person, because she left UNC, but EDD isn't and she left UCONN? People act like you don't have a right to change your mind.
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This is what I said about DD.
I don't condemn her for changing her mind
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Her history doesn't suggest consistency as far as long term aspirations. Or even shorter term. That doesn't make her a bad person in any way. It says she's human. And as far as EDD, I always said that a 17 year old has a right to change their mind. My complaint is with the LV PR people who are spinning the story and trying to say that she won't change her mind about staying for her entire eligibility.
 
All these transfers,and many sound like everyone wants to play with Diamond.If I recall,Diamond left these girls,or at least some of them,after she,from what I was lead to believe,helped recruit them to North Carolina.There may be some distrust in joining her again,and these girls may decide to go somewhere else,a place that has talent,to start over and continue their college basketball careers.
 
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cferraro04 said:
Here is my thought on this...this class was not a natural occurrence. It was contrived from the start...with DD orchestrating the massive sign-up as a "we come as a group". Haskell had too many scholarship players....so, a few of the players no doubt were spoken to and probably were encouraged to seek playing time elsewhere. It was a pretty crummy thing to do to kids that had committed to play for the North Carolina program. These were kids that wanted to play for North Carolina...and they were basically abandoned to make room for the "super stars". The karma was right from the begining and it appears that the basketball gods have taken their revenge. I feel bad for Mavunga and Haskell who has had to battle cancer only to watch her potential national championship class melt away before her eyes.
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First, as an FYI, it is Hatchell, not Haskell (unless that is a nickname).

Second, the players that were "abandoned" were players who had committed to UNC, but who had not yet enrolled (the Day twins). Not that it makes it better, but it is not as if they were UNC students who were told their scholarships were not renewed.

Third, DeShields was not the main person orchestrating the class. Neither was Hatchell. The person who orchestrated the class was then-Assistant Coach Trisha Stafford-Odom. She was the main contact, and she was the person to whom the recruits were close.

Stafford-Odom left UNC under questionable circumstances to become the head coach of Concordia. She publicly stated that she realized "there was not much movement/advancement within the staff [she] was part of" and that she was "[f]eeling untrusted" by the administration. At the time, there were rumors swirling that she had engaged in conduct that would lead to infractions/violations for UNC, but that was not specifically listed in the NOA from the NCAA to UNC.

When Stafford-Odom left, the main contact and recruiter for the Class of 2013 was gone. Hatchell did not have the relationship built with these players that Stafford-Odom did, and Hatchell was away from the team for their first year on the court. Once Stafford-Odom left right before DeShields and the class enrolled, it was only a matter of time after she left before DeShields transferred. And once DeShields left, coupled with the swirling allegations and likely punishment for the UNC program, other players were bound to follow suit and leave.
 
cferraro04 said:
Here is my thought on this...this class was not a natural occurrence. It was contrived from the start...with DD orchestrating the massive sign-up as a "we come as a group". Haskell had too many scholarship players....so, a few of the players no doubt were spoken to and probably were encouraged to seek playing time elsewhere. It was a pretty crummy thing to do to kids that had committed to play for the North Carolina program. These were kids that wanted to play for North Carolina...and they were basically abandoned to make room for the "super stars". The karma was right from the begining and it appears that the basketball gods have taken their revenge. I feel bad for Mavunga and Haskell who has had to battle cancer only to watch her potential national championship class melt away before her eyes.

I have to wonder...how much did DD know before she transferred? Was she able to see the writing on the wall?
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Yep.... the Day twins at Syracuse committed to UNC when they were sophomores in high school. Local products from Raleigh I think. Probably grew up dreaming of playing in those putrid blue uniforms. Im sure they were heartbroken when they decommitted. UNC's loss was Syracuse's gain. One of the twins averaged a double-double and close to 3 blocks a game. The other twin is a serviceable backup.
 
Zorro said:
I am shocked, shocked to hear that you have no love for UNCC!
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I have love for UNCC (Charlotte) ..... just not UNC ;)

Funny thing is.... I dont hear too much these days from people I know who root for the tarheels. Seems like a good time to send out a few taunting texts :cool:
 
Much is being made by some UNC apologists of the fact that about as many non-athletes as athletes availed themselves of the "ghost" classes, etc. What I have never seen is a time frame for athletes vs non-athletes in the classes. I remember reading something early on to the effect that the classes were originally designed for athletes but then some folks in the Greek system got wind of what was going on and sort of demanded to be let in or else, but I have never seen anything specific. Does anyone have any info on this? Seems to me to be very important in terms of athletic department guilt or innocence.
 
It's okay Cam...as I said they were only thoughts that I had...not facts. Glad you were able to correct my thinking and my spelling of Sylvia Hatchell's name...I don't really follow North Carolina basketball and don't really refer to Coach Hatchell often by name...so it is a case of senility kicking in...my apologies... With regards to the transfers to make room for the 'super stars"...whatever the surrounding specifics were it never the less happened and it didn't feel right at the time. I think the class had a feeling of contrivance to it, a sort of unnaturalness and I stand by my statement that the basketball gods help to create a new equilibrium.
 
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The seeds for the inevitable disintegration of UNC's "gang of four" (Deshields, Mavunga, Washington, Gray) were revealed in Diamond DeShields' April 2014 interview with Mechelle Voepel:
"This (UNC) is a place where they're not going to try to restrict you. Coach Hatchell told us that we were going to go fast, and she was going to let us play basketball.
Coach Hatchell's going to allow us to do those things without trying to change us or make us into a different type of player. So it was just perfect for us all."

- What it was was the perfect recipe for a disastrous marriage, a coach so desperate to sign recruits that she promised the inmates would be able to run the asylum. No restrictions, no meddling changes. Nobody should be too surprised that Hatchell's chickens have left home to roost.
- As much as Geno wanted DeShields, he would never compromise his responsibility as coach and teacher to accommodate the desires of a great young basketball
player who would sign on because she (they) would be allowed to do her own thing. It's always been Geno's way or the highway. And how successful that has been.
 
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Gus Mahler said:
Great point! And didn't Geno look at her? Hmmm....if no bigs from 2016 commit...hmm
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I love Mavunga's game-she's a great post player, a really tough kid who isn't super tall (6'3") but fights like hell on the boards, defends well, and nobody pushes her around. Of all the kids who have already or might transfer, she would be the one I want most. She would be a perfect fit at UConn, a great team player (though I know it's just a pipedream).
 
mtsuraider06 said:
I think both she, and Washington, and any other player should be able to play without sitting a year.

Incoming freshmen should be able to leave if they choose as well, without sitting a year.
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That of course depends on when the sanctions are imposed. If it isn't till April of 2016 anyone leaving now will not be able to play next season. I think UNC had 90 days to respond and I would guess they will use the entire time. The NCAA will take another several months to analyze their response, there will be meetings, negotiations, etc. and it won't be at least till after football season before any findings are announced.
 
Will this be the "kiss of death" for North Carolina athletics in general???
 
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