Adamec: lots of info from Bria Hartley in the JI

[iri10]

The simplest answer why Stewart starting is better for the overall good of the team is rotational balance. Reducing the argument to Lewis starting versus Stewart ignores the rest of the forest. Are Kaleena and Breanna minutes the only concern? Isn't Morgan Tuck likely to deserve significant minutes? Didn't Kiah Stokes show enough to deserve minutes in competitive games?

The rotational balance argument is a compelling one. I can't be sure what Geno thinks about that, but let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if he prefers a two post lineup to be this year's bread and butter, instead of a four guard lineup. And if you want to build your team around having two posts on the floor most of the time, it does make sense to start with that sort of lineup.

You know what would be amusing? Geno throwing a curveball and going with this starting lineup:

Dolson
Stokes
Faris
Hartley
Doty

Seems a bit counter-intuitive, but it might actually make a nice compromise. It's a starting lineup composed of veterans, and it's a two-post lineup. When substitution time arrives, then you start bringing in some combination of KML (who would still be able to do good things as a bench spark) and froshies, preferentially maintaining at least two bigs on the floor. Now that UConn is rotten with competent bigs, its rotations will hopefully reflect that.

 

[slimmer56]

Regardless of who starts I am sure Geno is very happy being in the position he is in. I may be wrong, but it does seem that the last few years we had a 6, 7, 8 rotation. Depending on how the freshies develop, and how far Lauren, and Heather have come, the sky is the limit.
Our "D" last year was the best in the country, and will be even better this year! I mean, we had a girl Kiah Stokes at 6'3 playing the point on our 1-2-2 zone trap defense. 6'3... are you kidding me ? Now,we have another guy who could do it just as well as Kiah. That would be, as everyone knows, Breanna Stewart.
The potential these girls have is unlimited, and unfathomable.
Watch out for these girls the next few years. We may see things happen that never happened before, by anyone ....even UCONN

 

[Vowelguy]

The rotational balance argument is a compelling one. I can't be sure what Geno thinks about that, but let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if he prefers a two post lineup to be this year's bread and butter, instead of a four guard lineup. And if you want to build your team around having two posts on the floor most of the time, it does make sense to start with that sort of lineup.

You know what would be amusing? Geno throwing a curveball and going with this starting lineup:

Dolson
Stokes
Faris
Hartley
Doty

Given that the main complaint about Stokes last year was her inconsistent effort in practice, it seems unlikely that she not only meets the coaches' expectations but exceeds them so much that they want to reward her with a starting position before the season even begins.

 

[doggydaddy]

Given that the main complaint about Stokes last year was her inconsistent effort in practice, it seems unlikely that she not only meets the coaches' expectations but exceeds them so much that they want to reward her with a starting position before the season even begins.

I'm just amazed that after reading so many posts last year that said Lewis should be starting that some think she will be on the bench and Stewart should be starting.

 

[Kibitzer]

I am amazed, even astonished, that some posters actually believe that Caroline won't start. If she is physically "good to go," she is the first name on the lineup card. I see no need to repeat the justification yet again. Doty starts. Period.

 

[Scotter]

There are what 3 people in this thread that said they expect Stewart to start? Certainly the minority. And I don't about the other two, but I know that at no point last year did I say Lewis should be starting. In fact I consistently argued the opposite.

Given the majority opinion in this thread and the way it is being expressed, I do wonder if some people learned the incorrect lesson from Geno bringing Kaleena off the bench all season. There's the implication that Geno is far more dogmatic than I believe he actually is. I very well could be wrong about that. I'm curious to find out in November. I haven't got the opening starting lineup wrong in years. This time there is a pretty good chance I will get it wrong, and many people I typically agree with are right.

I'm just amazed that after reading so many posts last year that said Lewis should be starting that some think she will be on the bench and Stewart should be starting.

 

[doggydaddy]

There are what 3 people in this thread that said they expect Stewart to start? Certainly the minority. And I don't about the other two, but I know that at no point last year did I say Lewis should be starting. In fact I consistently argued the opposite.

Given the majority opinion in this thread and the way it is being expressed, I do wonder if some people learned the incorrect lesson from Geno bringing Kaleena off the bench all season. There's the implication that Geno is far more dogmatic than I believe he actually is. I very well could be wrong about that. I'm curious to find out in November. I haven't got the opening starting lineup wrong in years. This time there is a pretty good chance I will get it wrong, and many people I typically agree with are right.

Scotter, never said you said that Lewis should start last year. I was just noting that many did that last year, and now some (I didn't count how many) say that Geno will or should start Stewart. And it has been discussed in more than this thread, but again, I didn't note how many posters said it, just that some did.

I haven't been wrong on the starting lineup in years either. So, one of us will have their streak broken...lol.

 

[Kibitzer]

Just to make someone feel better or worse, I posted earlier that I believe that Stewart will start. Not in November, but in January when Big East competition starts.

By popular demand.

 

[zymurg]

He's one of my Facebook friends. I gave him a shoutout.

Here I am, still alive and kicking, but perhaps somewhat weakly.

In re the debate: Each season presents its own problems/opportunities. This year it is a reasonable expectation that the team has greater margin for error. At critical times last season against top opponents UConn was unable to get stops and to make key shots. Faris was the key defensively, when she was in foul trouble, the defense suffered. At the end of the season Dolson and Hartley were the key offensive options, when even one was off, UConn stumbled down the stretch.

I haven't really seen Stewart, but if she is half the player most aver, she could be a significant factor in team improvement on both sides of the ball. She doesn't have to be great, just really good. Dolson's physical conditioning, if improved, would give UConn still more margin for error. With the options available, I can't see Geno sacrificing two positions on the floor at crunch time to players with limited scoring potential, barring injury or foul trouble.

What I have preached, probably too often, is that we look too much at individual players in evaluating how the team will do. What is always the problem at the begining of the year is the process of finding an effective team on both sides of the ball. What is key is how the individuals function together. This coming season Geno has a bigger and richer puzzle to assemble.

Still there is always the potential for the unexpected: in the season when ND won its NCAA championship, UConn led by I believe 15 at the half in the Semi Final game. Geno figured they would come out of their zone, but they didn't. Taurasi was something like 1-12 in the second half. The other big guns were pea shooters, Schuey was the most productive UConn player. ND won going away.

 

[Icebear]

Here I am, still alive and kicking, but perhaps somewhat weakly.

In re the debate: Each season presents its own problems/opportunities. This year it is a reasonable expectation that the team has greater margin for error. At critical times last season against top opponents UConn was unable to get stops and to make key shots. Ferris was the key defensively, when she was in foul trouble, the defense suffered. At the end of the season Dolson and Hartley were the key offensive options, when even one was off, UConn stumbled down the stretch.

I haven't really seen stewart, but if she is half the player most aver, she could be a significant factor in team improvement on both sides of the ball. She doesn't have to be great, justreally good. Dolson's physical conditioning if improved, would give UConn still more margin for error. With the options available, I can't see Geno sacrificing two positions on the floor at crunch time to players with limited scoring potential, barring injury or foul trouble.

What I have preached, probably too often, is that we look too much at individual players in evaluating how the team will do. What is always the problem at the begining of the year is the process of finding an effective team on both sides of the ball. What is key is how the individuals function together. This coming season Geno has a bigger and richer puzzle to assemble.

Still there is always the potential for the unexpected: in the season when ND won its NCAA championship, UConn led by I believe 15 at the half in the Semi Final game. Geno figured they would come out of their zone, but they didn't. Taurasi was something like 1-12 in the second half. The other big guns were pea shooters, Schuey was the most productive UConn player. ND won going away.

Great to see you.

 

[Icebear]

Just to make someone feel better or worse, I posted earlier that I believe that Stewart will start. Not in November, but in January when Big East competition starts.

By popular demand.

This I expect is the most "likely" scenario.

 

[diggerfoot]

Here I am, still alive and kicking, but perhaps somewhat weakly.

In re the debate: Each season presents its own problems/opportunities. This year it is a reasonable expectation that the team has greater margin for error. At critical times last season against top opponents UConn was unable to get stops and to make key shots. Faris was the key defensively, when she was in foul trouble, the defense suffered. At the end of the season Dolson and Hartley were the key offensive options, when even one was off, UConn stumbled down the stretch.

I haven't really seen Stewart, but if she is half the player most aver, she could be a significant factor in team improvement on both sides of the ball. She doesn't have to be great, just really good. Dolson's physical conditioning, if improved, would give UConn still more margin for error. With the options available, I can't see Geno sacrificing two positions on the floor at crunch time to players with limited scoring potential, barring injury or foul trouble.

What I have preached, probably too often, is that we look too much at individual players in evaluating how the team will do. What is always the problem at the begining of the year is the process of finding an effective team on both sides of the ball. What is key is how the individuals function together. This coming season Geno has a bigger and richer puzzle to assemble.

Still there is always the potential for the unexpected: in the season when ND won its NCAA championship, UConn led by I believe 15 at the half in the Semi Final game. Geno figured they would come out of their zone, but they didn't. Taurasi was something like 1-12 in the second half. The other big guns were pea shooters, Schuey was the most productive UConn player. ND won going away.

Since I'm the one that was asking about you, please allow me to say welcome back. You might have remembered me as mapper.

 

[diggerfoot]

There are what 3 people in this thread that said they expect Stewart to start? Certainly the minority. And I don't about the other two, but I know that at no point last year did I say Lewis should be starting. In fact I consistently argued the opposite.

Given the majority opinion in this thread and the way it is being expressed, I do wonder if some people learned the incorrect lesson from Geno bringing Kaleena off the bench all season. There's the implication that Geno is far more dogmatic than I believe he actually is. I very well could be wrong about that. I'm curious to find out in November. I haven't got the opening starting lineup wrong in years. This time there is a pretty good chance I will get it wrong, and many people I typically agree with are right.

As I commented earlier I thought there were good points brought up on both sides. I was leaning one way before this "debate;" now I'm genuinely up in the air. Your "implication" about the "implication" of others, that Auriemma would prove dogmatic if he went with the line-up suggested by others, discounting some of the reasoning based on past experience (chemistry, learning help defense in the post, etc.), is itself a dogmatic position. Your reasoning for starting Stewart is not dogmatic, based on the experience that Auriemma does not always start upperclassmen (Bird, Cash, Charles, etc.) when conditions dictate otherwise. Indeed, I find your reasoning experience-based and rather compelling. However, your assessment of inserting a different line-up as being dogmatic is highly ironic. I'm thinking you might not have intended that. A line-up based only on the principles of starting seniority, or on the five most talented, are competing dogmas. What's been going on in this thread are competing skepticisms based on alternative experiences.

 

[Vowelguy]

Just to make someone feel better or worse, I posted earlier that I believe that Stewart will start. Not in November, but in January when Big East competition starts.

Has Geno has ever changed the starting lineup midseason unless there were problems?

 

[doggydaddy]

Has Geno has ever changed the starting lineup midseason unless there were problems?

Excellent question.

Here is what I believe.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno keeps the same starting lineup all year.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno will carry over the starters from the previous season.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno will start the best player from the prervious season.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno will not start a freshman no matter how talented.

Now, that doesn't mean he won't do any of the above. But MOST of the time, he follows what I have laid out. So, to me, my best guess is that -

The starting lineup will be Hartley, Dolson, Faris, Doty and Lewis. They will start all season. Stewart will be the first player off the bench (along with 1 or 2 others at the first sub situation he uses).

Anything else would surprise me. Again, this is what I think Geno will do and not necessarily what I would do.

 

[VAMike23]

Excellent question.

Here is what I believe.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno keeps the same starting lineup all year.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno will carry over the starters from the previous season.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno will start the best player from the prervious season.

MOST of the time, barring injuries, Geno will not start a freshman no matter how talented.

Now, that doesn't mean he won't do any of the above. But MOST of the time, he follows what I have laid out. So, to me, my best guess is that -

The starting lineup will be Hartley, Dolson, Faris, Doty and Lewis. They will start all season. Stewart will be the first player off the bench (along with 1 or 2 others at the first sub situation he uses).

Anything else would surprise me. Again, this is what I think Geno will do and not necessarily what I would do.

Agreed with the caveat that if Kiah continues developing well (and as a rising sophomore, this is when Geno said the good players make the biggest jump), she may start some games at the 5 if Geno sees it as a good matchup. Granted, part of the reason she saw extended action in a few games was because Stef was briefly in the doghouse, but then there were also times where the staff thought she was the better choice at the 5 because of the matchup.

So I still expect to see Stef as the regular starter but would not be shocked if Kiah started occasionally at the 5.

 

[Vowelguy]

So I still expect to see Stef as the regular starter but would not be shocked if Kiah started occasionally at the 5.

I cannot _ever_ recall Geno using selective starting based on matchups. Not ever.

 

[VAMike23]

I cannot _ever_ recall Geno using selective starting based on matchups. Not ever.

I seem to remember the coaches referring to the 'better matchup' in conjunction with Kiah starting a game or two last year, but I will have to check. Certainly the exception, in any event.

 

[Shenandoah]

l agree with DD on the starting lineup, and I just can't wait to see the expression on the opponents faces when, at the first substitution, Kiah, Breanna, and Morgan enter the game...Opponents getting ANY rebounds? fuggetaboutit!!!!

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'm going to agree with Nan. I don't know what the starting line-up will be. I have some opinions and may reconsider after reading some arguments here. I think the fact that there is disagreement on this is good--it means that Geno has more than 5 very good players. Depth is a good thing.

 

[Scotter]

The reason I think Stewart will start has absolutely nothing to do with starting the five most talented players. I'm in complete disagreement with that line of thinking. Not sure why you took that away from my arguments considering I was arguing for Kaleena to skill come off the bench next season even though she is clearly one of the five most talented players.. My argument for why Stewart will start is because I anticipate Geno will break with what many see as his accepted conventions because of the need to respond to specific issues facing this specific team. I see that as the opposite of dogmatic.

However, your assessment of inserting a different line-up as being dogmatic is highly ironic. I'm thinking you might not have intended that. A line-up based only on the principles of starting seniority, or on the five most talented, are competing dogmas. What's been going on in this thread are competing skepticisms based on alternative experiences.

 

[doggydaddy]

My argument for why Stewart will start is because I anticipate Geno will break with what many see as his accepted conventions because of the need to respond to specific issues facing this specific team. I see that as the opposite of dogmatic.

This team hasn't played a minute together, so I'm not sure how you know what any issues are.

This team, without Stewart, would beat every team on it's schedule. She doesn't need to start. She might, but I would bet against it.

 

[Scotter]

It isn't quite tomorrow yet, but somehow I'm pretty confident it is going to be hot outside. Guess you'll have to check my track record as a forecaster.

This team hasn't played a minute together, so I'm not sure how you know what any issues are.

 

[diggerfoot]

The reason I think Stewart will start has absolutely nothing to do with starting the five most talented players. I'm in complete disagreement with that line of thinking. Not sure why you took that away from my arguments considering I was arguing for Kaleena to skill come off the bench next season even though she is clearly one of the five most talented players.. My argument for why Stewart will start is because I anticipate Geno will break with what many see as his accepted conventions because of the need to respond to specific issues facing this specific team. I see that as the opposite of dogmatic.

Start the five most talented players (what I'll call the BudFrog argument of the past) as an infallible principle = dogmatic
Start the five with the most starting/game experience as an infallible principle (or convention) = dogmatic
HuskyNan and Icebear arguments against starting the five most talented players = skeptical based on some prior situations
Your arguments (and at least one other) against starting the five with most experience = skeptical based on some prior situations

You implicating that Auriemma would be dogmatic in inserting the line-up suggested by doggydaddy, etc. assumes he would be doing it according to some convention and not situation-based. I tried to make an earlier point that this whole thread brought up nice situation-based points on both sides. Your argument for Stewart starting was well-reasoned, situation-based and not dogmatic, just as were some of the counterarguments. However, once you allege a counterargument to be dogmatic, even in the face of it being reasoned and situation-based, you are in turn being dogmatic rather than skeptical in your refusal to consider possible validity in opposing points. Like I said, I don't think you really intended that. The correction would be to accept that if Auriemma did not start Stewart he might be making a mistake assessing the situation in your view, but he still could be doing it out of accessing the situation at hand rather than simply following some dogmatic convention. If you accept that as a possibility then you in turn are merely skeptical rather than dogmatic in disputing its validity as the best starting line-up. Now if Auriemma comes right out and says he starts who he starts due to convention, then your skepticism has been verified.

Another way to look at this is you tried (unwittingly I think) to set up a tautology against counterarguments. Convention = inserting KML into the line-up instead of Stewart. Thus, any argument in support of that scenario must be dogmatic and convention-based instead of situation-based, whereas only by deviating from that does Auriemma prove his situation-based approach and, by extension, only your arguments in support are situation-based arguments. This is an approach to preempting counterarguments that is prevalent in our society, particularly with economic and political schools of thought, so I'm particularly sensitive when I spot a tautology. I'll say this once more: I don't think you intended to do this, but it came after I implied there were good situation-based points on both sides. I actually think you've suggested the best starting five (actually someone else suggested it first), though I'm willing to concede Auriemma may not use it for other reasons besides dogmatic convention.

 

[doggydaddy]

It isn't quite tomorrow yet, but somehow I'm pretty confident it is going to be hot outside. Guess you'll have to check my track record as a forecaster.

Your forecasts are as predictable as the weather? I wouldn' be so proud of that!

When you realistically have a team that will be challenged by only 1 or maybe 2 teams the entire season, saying there are issues is like complaining about Cindy Crawfords mole.

I haven't been wrong about the starting lineup either, my friend. So, as I have said before, one of us will
have their streak broken.

 

[Tonyc]

Well this is a great thread. I am really enjoying reading it . Alot of good stuff. Bottom line is Geno will go with experience and playing time will be earned, just like every other season. Kelly Caroline Stef KML and Bria have chemistry. I beleive they will start for that reason. Our incoming class will need to learn to play within the system. Geno will teach and coach them as they move in and out of the lineup at various positions and situations. He will work them into the lineup as they develop, become confident and play the way Geno wants them to perform until it becomes reflexive. Geno is more about the team being able to execute under his system and not about the best players starting. UConn has been tuff because of their ability to execute on defense. Defense is why and what makes UConn so tuff. Looking at this saesons roster I dont think this team can lose for a couple of years. However playing inexperienced freshman who cant execute under pressure and when it needs to get done...well they could cause problems in winning and with a young players confidence. Playing kids in situations that theyre not ready for could drop their confidence level backwards. Set them back. Opposing teams would recognize a weak link in the defense and expose it, putting more pressure on everybody else to pick up the slack. A player not sure of what to do,where to be, allowing offenses to do what they are comfortable doing and not being able to stop them, or make them feel intimadated could cost you a game.

Hey this team has more talent then any team in WCBB. Baylor will be a challange, Stanford Duke ND MD will be good games. IMO this UConn team could beat every team for the next 2 seasons by double digets. Will they? We will have to wait and see. I am so looking forward to this season, Im dying waiting.

 

[Kibitzer]

Start the five most talented players (what I'll call the BudFrog argument of the past) as an infallible principle = dogmatic
Start the five with the most starting/game experience as an infallible principle (or convention) = dogmatic
HuskyNan and Icebear arguments against starting the five most talented players = skeptical based on some prior situations
Your arguments (and at least one other) against starting the five with most experience = skeptical based on some prior situations

You implicating that Auriemma would be dogmatic in inserting the line-up suggested by doggydaddy, etc. assumes he would be doing it according to some convention and not situation-based. I tried to make an earlier point that this whole thread brought up nice situation-based points on both sides. Your argument for Stewart starting was well-reasoned, situation-based and not dogmatic, just as were some of the counterarguments. However, once you allege a counterargument to be dogmatic, even in the face of it being reasoned and situation-based, you are in turn being dogmatic rather than skeptical in your refusal to consider possible validity in opposing points. Like I said, I don't think you really intended that. The correction would be to accept that if Auriemma did not start Stewart he might be making a mistake assessing the situation in your view, but he still could be doing it out of accessing the situation at hand rather than simply following some dogmatic convention. If you accept that as a possibility then you in turn are merely skeptical rather than dogmatic in disputing its validity as the best starting line-up. Now if Auriemma comes right out and says he starts who he starts due to convention, then your skepticism has been verified.

Another way to look at this is you tried (unwittingly I think) to set up a tautology against counterarguments. Convention = inserting KML into the line-up instead of Stewart. Thus, any argument in support of that scenario must be dogmatic and convention-based instead of situation-based, whereas only by deviating from that does Auriemma prove his situation-based approach and, by extension, only your arguments in support are situation-based arguments. This is an approach to preempting counterarguments that is prevalent in our society, particularly with economic and political schools of thought, so I'm particularly sensitive when I spot a tautology. I'll say this once more: I don't think you intended to do this, but it came after I implied there were good situation-based points on both sides. I actually think you've suggested the best starting five (actually someone else suggested it first), though I'm willing to concede Auriemma may not use it for other reasons besides dogmatic convention.

HUH?

 

[trisailin]

In spite of all the arguments put forth already, I will state with near certainty that on Sr Night, Heather Buck, Kelly Ferris and Caroline Doty will all start.

 

[John Fryer]

Wow! This is one Cool Thread.

Forgive me if I return to Bria.

IMHO, Bria will become a first team AA this upcoming season.

It is also MHO that she will likely be joined by KML and Stef as 2nd team AAs.

Peace,

John Fryer