AD Dave on Kevin Ollie

[upstater]

No one is surprised that they struggled, given the injuries, what's surprising is who they struggled against. Moreover, they struggled before the injuries.

This "before" the injuries thing is way overblown.

This team even in the exhibition season came out and played selfishly. Teams lose to crap teams out of the gate every year. But they turn it around eventually. Heck, those teams beat other blue bloods this very year.

The point is, the team started jelling just when UConn team's usually gel, only this one has less talent. Despite what the announcers were saying the other day about UConn taking poor shots, UConn's problem was not MAKING shots. I heard the announcer criticize shot selection when Jalen drove into the paint and kicked out to Christian for a wide open 3, no one around him. Our current lineup cannot make shots!

And despite the criticism of Ollie moving away from UConn's preferred man-to-man style, it should have been obvious that Cincy was stoned in the second part of the first half when UConn moved to an unusual zone.

Terry Larrier really is a good player. And a second ballhandler would reduce turnovers and make all the difference.

 

[upstater]

This whole idea that KO is a bad coach is so funny to me. When he had an experienced team that could run his system we won the whole damn thing. Take a look at the past few national champions and I think you can see a pattern:

2016 - Nova - Almost every key player was Jr/Sr
2015 - Duke - Team had 4 guys who have played in the NBA
2014 - UConn - Dont need to explain this one
2013 - Ville - Another team full of Jr/Sr that carried the team
2012 - Kentucky - Had 5 NBA players on it including Anthony Davis

Notice the pattern here? The best teams in the country either have teams that are heavily experienced or are littered with NBA players. Each one of these teams have great coaches that also have struggled when they don't have the players to run their system. Everyone regards Coach K as one of the best all time but somehow his teams only seem to be elite when they have elite talent.

Look at the structure of our roster. Our 3 seniors are all limited players who just don't have the skills to be the lead guy. That happens sometimes and should also not be surprising since 2 of the 3 were not high ranked recruits to begin with so that they have some limitations should not be surprising in the least. Purvis was highly ranked but just didn't pan out to be an elite guy. He is a solid player but not the lead guy.

Of the remaining roster its all Fr and So and of that group 2 of the 3 most talented guys sat out all year. How is anyone surprised that this team has struggled?

A big factor is the point guards.

UConn always had a point guard successor taking over from a predecessor. Marcus Williams after Taliek. AJ Price after Marcus. Kemba after AJ. Shabazz after Kemba. Even Boatright after Shabazz (though that team had little talent left).

The problem was recruiting in the APR year. The baton should have been handed to a top 100 guard. Instead, it went to Terence Samuel. Who left after Sophomore year. And even then, it should have gone to a Chris Chiozza, Josh Perkins, Devonte Graham type.

Jalen never had the luxury of playing with Shabazz, or even Ryan Boatright.

 

[Pudge]

Last season was disappointing, albeit understandably since they had so many new pieces to integrate into their system.

The year after the title was disappointing, albeit understandably considering who they lost from the championship team.

This year has been disappointing, albeit understandably due to the ridiculous injuries.

See the pattern? There are legitimate reasons for each team underachieving, which shouldn't be discounted ... just as that pattern of disappointment shouldn't be discounted either.

That's why next year is so important in my opinion. I'm not expecting a contender, but I do want to see them break the above pattern and start moving in the right direction.

Back to me ...

This thread has devolved to that: one or two or three guys insisting that they MUST be heard.

Ollie has - Adams, Enoch, Larrier, Jackson, Vital, Gilbert, Diarra, Durham, MAL, Polley, Carlton - lined up. Soph to Rising. Probably one more coming. This is it folks. The Future. What happened 2014-2016 ... and what became of Brimah, Facey, TSamuels (Ollie's first class) and then Purvis; then the infusion of Grad Transfers Kromah, Gibbs, Miller. (and the residual Giffey, Daniels, Napier, Boatwright, DHamilton from Calhoun). That is the arc of recruiting post September Calhoun leaving: WE were not in a good place. Reduced scholarships. Plug Plug Plug. The entire Kevin Ollie inheritance of the Franchise is on the 11 guys stacked up right now. Can he develop ... Can he fit them into defined roles? Why didn't this happen prior to 2014? Long narrative - and many simply do not want to listen any longer. Excuses? Not really; but, the reason we are AAC and not Blue Blood achievement is right there.

These 11. Is Kevin Ollie recruiting at a far less standard than Calhoun? My view is ... I don't believe that is true. He has recruited at a good level - not much different than JC on evaluative basis. Bench coaching? Kevin Ollie is developing and not a star yet - Game to Game. And he could use shake-up of the Assistant next to him.

 

[upstater]

Back to me ...

This thread has devolved to that: one or two or three guys insisting that they MUST be heard.

Ollie has - Adams, Enoch, Larrier, Jackson, Vital, Gilbert, Diarra, Durham, MAL, Polley, Carlton - lined up. Soph to Rising. Probably one more coming. This is it folks. The Future. What happened 2014-2016 ... and what became of Brimah, Facey, TSamuels (Ollie's first class) and then Purvis; then the infusion of Grad Transfers Kromah, Gibbs, Miller. (and the residual Giffey, Daniels, Napier, Boatwright, DHamilton from Calhoun). That is the arc of recruiting post September Calhoun leaving: WE were not in a good place. Reduced scholarships. Plug Plug Plug. The entire Kevin Ollie inheritance of the Franchise is on the 11 guys stacked up right now. Can he develop ... Can he fit them into defined roles? Why didn't this happen prior to 2014? Long narrative - and many simply do not want to listen any longer. Excuses? Not really; but, the reason we are AAC and not Blue Blood achievement is right there.

These 11. Is Kevin Ollie recruiting at a far less standard than Calhoun? My view is ... I don't believe that is true. He has recruited at a good level - not much different than JC on evaluative basis. Bench coaching? Kevin Ollie is developing and not a star yet - Game to Game. And he could use shake-up of the Assistant next to him.

I agree with all of this. On recruiting however, there is a big man deficit. We really have to hope for the best for Carlton. Because we don't have a Boone, Adrien, or even Oriakhi. (I'm not asking for an Okafor, or Thabeet, or Drummond).

 

[SouthBayHusky]

This "before" the injuries thing is way overblown.

This team even in the exhibition season came out and played selfishly. Teams lose to crap teams out of the gate every year. But they turn it around eventually. Heck, those teams beat other blue bloods this very year.

The point is, the team started jelling just when UConn team's usually gel, only this one has less talent. Despite what the announcers were saying the other day about UConn taking poor shots, UConn's problem was not MAKING shots. I heard the announcer criticize shot selection when Jalen drove into the paint and kicked out to Christian for a wide open 3, no one around him. Our current lineup cannot make shots!

And despite the criticism of Ollie moving away from UConn's preferred man-to-man style, it should have been obvious that Cincy was stoned in the second part of the first half when UConn moved to an unusual zone.

Terry Larrier really is a good player. And a second ballhandler would reduce turnovers and make all the difference.

I'm not one of those critical of playing less man to man and more zone, given the injuries this year and limited depth. And I understand teams do get upset out of the gates, but when you have a deep bench of talented players as we did in the beginning of the season, your coach has got pull players and teach when players get selfish, make the same mistakes, etc. instead of letting them play. I remember Game earlier this year were Kevin Ali almost pleaded to the press that what you gonna do if players don't listen, complaining that nobody tried getting it inside the Facey and went on a three for all. Also, teams with decent talent don't lose back to back home games to sub-200 teams, and then go on to barely escape another sub 250 team at LMU. I was at that game and it was frustrating to watch them pull it off in the final seconds. But beyond this year, I'm looking at the entire body of work in AAC conference play over four years. Not one year. Record speaks for itself. That's what's concerning a lot of us. I could make all the same justifications year after year ( and individually they all makes sense on its face) from last year's transplants not having time to gel, this year's injuries, Low BB IQ, recruiting sanctions, etc. but when you look at the level of competition in this conference - 2 to 3 teams deep, we should not be finishing sixth year after year after year. I actually think KO would be a decent NBA coach, but being a decent college coach requires more teaching, discipline, and adapting to what you got, not what you want. Anyway, I'm not arguing he should be let go this year at all. In fact we need him to succeed because the longer it goes without him succeeding the harder it's going to be to bring the program back. So I'm definitely in the camp that he needs another year (and maybe another pending on next year's results), but if we are not finishing in the top three in this crap conference, and we're barely limping in as a bubble team, then yes heat needs to be turned up and changes need to be made. We all want the same thing which is for our program to succeed, and I am not expecting Jim Calhoun success, but I am expecting consistent top 25, finishing in the top three of the AAC, and making the tournament most years.

 

[UConn990411]

Back to me ...

This thread has devolved to that: one or two or three guys insisting that they MUST be heard.

Ollie has - Adams, Enoch, Larrier, Jackson, Vital, Gilbert, Diarra, Durham, MAL, Polley, Carlton - lined up. Soph to Rising. Probably one more coming. This is it folks. The Future. What happened 2014-2016 ... and what became of Brimah, Facey, TSamuels (Ollie's first class) and then Purvis; then the infusion of Grad Transfers Kromah, Gibbs, Miller. (and the residual Giffey, Daniels, Napier, Boatwright, DHamilton from Calhoun). That is the arc of recruiting post September Calhoun leaving: WE were not in a good place. Reduced scholarships. Plug Plug Plug. The entire Kevin Ollie inheritance of the Franchise is on the 11 guys stacked up right now. Can he develop ... Can he fit them into defined roles? Why didn't this happen prior to 2014? Long narrative - and many simply do not want to listen any longer. Excuses? Not really; but, the reason we are AAC and not Blue Blood achievement is right there.

These 11. Is Kevin Ollie recruiting at a far less standard than Calhoun? My view is ... I don't believe that is true. He has recruited at a good level - not much different than JC on evaluative basis. Bench coaching? Kevin Ollie is developing and not a star yet - Game to Game. And he could use shake-up of the Assistant next to him.

Could not agree more with everything you said in your last paragraph. The recruiting has been good the past two years, so I'm excited to see what Ollie can do with some actual continuity in his roster for a change. Again, I'm not expecting a contender or anything, but some movement in the right direction is a reasonable expectation.

As to your last point, Tom Moore just became available...

 

[Huskyfan990411]

Back to me ...

That is the arc of recruiting post September Calhoun leaving: WE were not in a good place. Reduced scholarships.

You cant understate the what the APR ban and recruiting sanctions did to the program. Not only did we get limited scholarships, time out recruiting, etc but a big factor I don't see a lot of people talking about was our ban was announced in the summer before the season started so in addition we had to recruit with that ban over our heads. Every other school that has been put on ban from the tourney was announced during the season after all recruiting for that year is done.

Lo and behold that year we brought in Kentan, T Samuel and Amida Brimah. Lower rated guys that looked promising as freshman when only asked to contribute occasionally but have now struggles as SRs when tasked with being the lead guys.

 

[Rico444]

Incredibly, it seems so. Not only was Dyson not the top scorer on that team (he was 4th) - they also had a senior PG named AJ Price, a senior Jeff Adrien (good lord would I love another Jeff Adrien) and a junior center in Hasheem Thabeet - inarguably the best shot blocker we've ever had.

Yup. And that same core started in 2007 as freshmen -- that team wasn't even invited to the NIT. Two years later? They were playing in the Final Four and were a top-10 team all season. That's why I'm encouraged for this group of players. I don't know if they'll put together a season like the 2009 Huskies did, but Vance, Alterique, Vital, and Durham are going to be really good players by the time they're upperclassmen.

 

[ctchamps]

Maybe true, but how many of our blue colored glasses folks would have pegged three 6th place finishes and a third?

I'm not sure glasses are behind the differences between the two camps conclusions. I could be wrong so when I find !sh^^ covered glasses maybe we can demonstrate that glasses are the reasons for the differences.

 

[mauconnfan]

I have to assume that the league's coaches know something about "the game," and their assessment of our talent has been wrong for four straight years. I agree that we have a talent void, but we get less out of them than most would think.

This is not about "talent void" it's about kids who know HOW to play and have the instincts. There have been kids who have increased their impact under KO and the staff so we know they teach them. Heck just look at Vital and Jackson this year, both got better as the year went on. Some is thanks to the staff, some is because they are smart kids and are listening while able to comprehend what's being taught.

 

[80shusky]

The below is a four year stretch of wins/losses of a hall of fame coach. Sometimes you have the horses, sometimes you don't. Ultimately players win games.

17 14
24 9
31 5
18 16

 

[Tenspro2002]

The below is a four year stretch of wins/losses of a hall of fame coach. Sometimes you have the horses, sometimes you don't. Ultimately players win games.

17 14
24 9
31 5
18 16

And whose responsibility is it to recruit or develop those horses?

BTW, that 90-44 record that represents JC's worst 4-year stretch is still better than the 91-50 KO has put up, in a weaker conference, over the last 4 years.

 

[David 76]

1) Winning a NC and a conference championship takes away from your argument. But still it is a problem and an embarrassment.
2) Do not understand the "we can't even come in third" and the "we need to be in a better conference" crowd. They are statements that contradict each other.

 

[80shusky]

And whose responsibility is it to recruit or develop those horses?

BTW, that 90-44 record that represents JC's worst 4-year stretch is still better than the 91-50 KO has put up, in a weaker conference, over the last 4 years.

Sometimes even the best have bad years. Go look at the coaching records of almost any hall of fame coach you care to name and you will see good years and bad years for the most part.

 

[80shusky]

And whose responsibility is it to recruit or develop those horses?

BTW, that 90-44 record that represents JC's worst 4-year stretch is still better than the 91-50 KO has put up, in a weaker conference, over the last 4 years.

His record should have been better. He had 30+ years of experience as a division 1 head coach and two national championships.

 

[upstater]

Sometimes even the best have bad years. Go look at the coaching records of almost any hall of fame coach you care to name and you will see good years and bad years for the most part.

I used to read the Villanova board. There was a time many there wanted to give up on Jay Wright.

 

[80shusky]

I used to read the Villanova board. There was a time many there wanted to give up on Jay Wright.

I'm sure. And three years from now if he has two or three bad years in a row they'll be gathered outside his house with lit torches, just like this message board.

 

[80shusky]

And whose responsibility is it to recruit or develop those horses?

BTW, that 90-44 record that represents JC's worst 4-year stretch is still better than the 91-50 KO has put up, in a weaker conference, over the last 4 years.

Actually, I've already replied to this twice and I'm not done yet. That does not represent JC's worst 4- year stretch as a head coach. This stretch is worse:

1972-73 Northeastern Ind 19 7 .731 -10.77 -10.00
1973-74 Northeastern Ind 12 11 .522 -10.67 -7.90
1974-75 Northeastern Ind 12 12 .500 -15.49 -6.69
1975-76 Northeastern Ind 12 13 .480 -15.80 -7.87

His three years after that weren't very good either. Had they given up on him they would never have had the opportunity for him to take them to the NCAA tournament five times after that.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Ollie has another year, period. He won a National Title. That buys you time, even if Shabazz pretty much did it single handedly. Someone was coaching that team.

If next year is another disaster, you have to replace him. And given how AD Dave handled the Diaco situation, I trust him moving forward. No sense in freaking out about it now.

 

[NielsisGood]

Here's a heads-up. Most of us have managed to go years without petty back-and-forth hissy fits. When you are embroiled in several over the course of a week, maybe its a good time to look in the mirror.

I don't know if you're the most qualified person to say this. Not sure I've ever seen you make a post that wasn't just some after-the-fact bashing of someone.

 

[NielsisGood]

There was this one night at the Garden...

Which was rather embarrassing, frankly.

 

[huskyharry]

I can't see most of it because in order to stay above the law I've needed to "ignore" the posters who make little to no sense. And damn that's a lot of them!

Can't like this one enough!

 

[intlzncster]

Ollie has another year, period. He won a National Title. That buys you time, even if Shabazz pretty much did it single handedly. Someone was coaching that team.

Never, ever, understand this line of thinking. Shabazz had a hell of a lot of help. But if you want to think that way, then Kemba basically did it single highhandedly too. So JC shouldn't get kudos for that run?