ACC

[TRest]

It would have been harder for the ACC to get UConn through, than the Big EAst to get Penn State, because PSU wanted in to the league, UConn didn't want in to this league - at the time.

UConn would have turned an ACC offer down at the time, or was not interested? Is this your opinion or fact? Sounds like Stop to me, the moment Pitt and SU were announced everyone knew what it meant to the BE and to UConn. Herbst practically ran down to Tobacco Road to get on that train.

 

[Carl Spackler]

UConn would have turned an ACC offer down at the time, or was not interested? Is this your opinion or fact? Sounds like bull**** to me, the moment Pitt and SU were announced everyone knew what it meant to the BE and to UConn. Herbst practically ran down to Tobacco Road to get on that train.

UConn was not interested in the ACC prior to Syracuse leaving. I did not write that we would have turned down an offer. What I wrote is that the ACC would have had a much harder time approachign UConn about joining, had the expansion vote been successful for UConn, than the Big East would have had approaching Penn State years earlier, after a successful vote. Reading comprehension.

 

[TRest]

UConn was not interested in the ACC prior to Syracuse leaving. I did not write that we would have turned down an offer. What I wrote is that the ACC would have had a much harder time approachign UConn about joining, had the expansion vote been successful for UConn, than the Big East would have had approaching Penn State years earlier, after a successful vote. Reading comprehension.

Fact or opinion Mr. Reading comprehension? Just because you want to play in the NBE doesn't mean UConn would have had no interest if approached. I have never seen written anywhere that UConn was part of the discussion but expressed a preference for staying in the BE. You don't think the ACC put out any feelers to UConn before any expansion vote?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Fact or opinion Mr. Reading comprehension? Just because you want to play in the NBE doesn't mean UConn would have had no interest if approached. I have never seen written anywhere that UConn was part of the discussion but expressed a preference for staying in the BE. You don't think the ACC put out any feelers to UConn before any expansion vote?

Nope. Obviously couldn't trust UConn leadership to sit in Big East meetings, and do what Syracuse and Pittsburgh leadership did, and for that matter, what WVU leadership did a few weeks later. We were very much face to face in the open with our intentions. Dave Gavitt, and his league, mean everything to where UConn is right now as both an academic and athletic institution.

Even Syracuse and Pitt leadership, sitting in those meetings for who knows how long with knowledge of the move to the ACC, wouldn't do anything until Dave died.

Susan Herbst made a very brave move, by expressly putting the interests of the university ahead of the interests of the big east in those few weeks in fall of 2011, and I do believe, it's the way that UConn has handled this mess, that has been a major contributor, if not the the most important contributor, to why the entire membership of the Big East conference is finally, after 21 years, becoming committed entirely to building a strong football conference, rather than doing the least minimum to maintain a football conference.

I'll predict here, that Villanova will finally make the jump, and become that Catholic partner for Notre Dame in the league.

 

[MattMang23]

UConn was not interested in the ACC prior to Syracuse leaving. I did not write that we would have turned down an offer. What I wrote is that the ACC would have had a much harder time approachign UConn about joining, had the expansion vote been successful for UConn, than the Big East would have had approaching Penn State years earlier, after a successful vote. Reading comprehension.

I believe you have events chronologically incorrect, Carl.

I believe the vote to approve expansion occurs first, then viable candidates are approached to gauge interest, then a vote on individual schools takes place. The conference doesn't vote on individual schools then go out and convince them to join. They're voted on after they apply as evidenced in this link: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...ial-acc-accepts-pitt-syracuse-as-new-members/

This would debunk your theory.

 

[Dann]

speaking of nova lets remember what those ja's are really doing. they are spending our $$ to explore a move up again which is code for see if we can steal the eagles stadium from temple and then the acc would want us. we got $20mil from wvu for the conf. after laywer bills, marinate dinners, temple buy outs and now nova fluff(which is bullshhit) what do we have left? $5? so we basically gave away wvu for nothing. unfuckking real.

an no, nd is not waiting on nova. if they wanted to be in a league with alot of catholic schools they would call the acc and say add nova and us for 16.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I believe you have events chronologically incorrect, Carl.

I believe the vote to approve expansion occurs first, then viable candidates are approached to gauge interest, then a vote on individual schools takes place. The conference doesn't vote on individual schools then go out and convince them to join. They're voted on after they apply as evidenced in this link: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...ial-acc-accepts-pitt-syracuse-as-new-members/

This would debunk your theory.

A. The ACC had an expansion committee. That's what I"m talking about. That's where everythign gets hashed out. A full league vote on membership changes doesn't happen, unless the outcome is already known before the vote for absolute certainty.

Every single conference in the country learned that's how to do business in 1982, when the Big East went to vote with all members and got the 5-3 on Penn State instead of the expected 6-2.

That vote on Penn State by the 8 existing Big East members at the time should have never happened.

The formal ACC vote on Syracuse and Pitt, and for that matter, any formal conference membership change vote that has ahppened since 1982 in any conference, has only happened for formality only with the outcome known to all well in advance.

I've given you all enough. Later dudes.

 

[progrocks]

Cool. That must be fun. What is the new stadium projected capacity? It sounds like Houston is on a similar path that UConn was on. Our stadium seats 40k capacity but was built with blueprints to seat 50k, and the footings and foundation in place such that when expansion is approved, it's all above ground, quick consturction.

Last I heard the new stadium was to be for 2014, and around 40k seats, but the money was not there at that point. maybe it is now? I assume they would have to play at Reliant during 2013 because TSU will play at the new dynamo stadium so i doubt there is room there.

Robertson stadium is nasty and I am glad I never have to step foot it in again to see the Dynamo play.

 

[sooner85]

FromTheInside:

WVU Scout B12 Conference board posters would love to have your input regarding tier III valuations. I asked your thoughts about two of these areas, OU pending deal with Fox regionals and K-State internet model, in my first post above.

 

[Carl Spackler]

speaking of nova lets remember what those ja's are really doing. they are spending our $$ to explore a move up again which is code for see if we can steal the eagles stadium from temple and then the acc would want us. we got $20mil from wvu for the conf. after laywer bills, marinate dinners, temple buy outs and now nova fluff(which is bullshhit) what do we have left? $5? so we basically gave away wvu for nothing. unFecundityking real.

an no, nd is not waiting on nova. if they wanted to be in a league with alot of catholic schools they would call the acc and say add nova and us for 16.

I wrote right here kid, 2 years ago, that if VIllanova kept dragging their feet, and didn't commit to the upgrade Marinatto was pushing for, that the league would be completely destroyed or look nothing like it ever was supposed to by 2013. You can go find it. You weren't aroudn then.

Everybody called me crazy then too, said it was BS.

They've called me crazy on everything that I've said.

There is going to be a resurgence of football in the northeast, starting at the youth level, such that football will get back to what it was until the late 1950s when the Ivy league colleges discontinued scholarships, and the sequence of events thereafter, and UConn is leading the way.

Because the cost of a college education is so out of proportion right now, that scholarships, are becoming very, very important to higher education, and the health of higher education institutions. I'm not going to get into the economics of that.

Suffice to say, that football, is the sport that can provide, and self sustain, the revenue streams for a healthy athletic department, and provide a path to a large number of scholarships, that parents with kids that can play, are goign to have the best chance to get.

It starts with the major public colleges in the region, getting back to top level of football. UMass has done it. Temple has done it. UConn has led the way. Villanova follows suit? You'll see a domino effect among both public and private small colleges in the northeast re-establishing and re-emphasizing football programs, to get into the revenue streams around football, and high school football specifically. High school football can generate a ton of revenue in cash strapped towns.

Yale and Harvard get back on board in the future? Watch out.

BUt never mind - I'm cuckoo for believing in the Big East.

 

[Dann]

carl-i was around for a couple years on the old by, lurked for a couple years during college then posted under wnec. i read your YGC stuff on the board back then.

 

[TRest]

carl-i was around for a couple years on the old by, lurked for a couple years during college then posted under wnec. i read your YGC stuff on the board back then.

What handle was Carl using? i don't remember anyone posting about this stuff 2 years ago on Scout.

And Carl, it still appears to be your opinion that UConn would not desire ACC membership. You're always asking people to cite facts or link stories, so where's the proof? "Nope. Obviously couldn't trust UConn leadership to sit in Big East meetings, and do what Syracuse and Pittsburgh leadership did, and for that matter, what WVU leadership did a few weeks later. We were very much face to face in the open with our intentions. Dave Gavitt, and his league, mean everything to where UConn is right now as both an academic and athletic institution."

 

[FromTheInside]

Hey FromTheInside, fellow Texas fan here.

I need your knowledge/opinion on a couple if Big 12 expansion thoughts.

1. I've been saying since last fall, that BYU should be an absolute no-brainer add for the Big 12. What are your thoughts on BYU as an addition to the Big 12?

2. I've also been saying since last fall that long term, UH should've been invited to the Big 12 over TCU because long term UH makes more sense for the Big 12 than TCU for several reasons. Your Thoughts?

From a value standpoint to a conference, BYU would be a no brainer for any conference in the country. They have strong TV #s, though it's largely concentrated in the pacific & mountain time zones. They have strong football & basketball attendance. Their athletic revenue is excellent. If BYU were in Kentucky, the Big XII, SEC, and ACC would be fighting to add them. The only things working against them are geography & having a reputation as more self-focused than conference-focused. As a fan, I'd like to see them in the Big XII. But, they'll have to decide they're in it for the Big XII, rather than themselves.

Houston has great potential to be a high-caliber addition to any conference. But, the reason TCU was added had nothing to do with TCU vs Houston, and everything to do with Big XII vs SEC. The SEC was starting to court TCU, and there was no way the Big XII could allow the SEC to get a foothold into East Texas and the Dallas metroplex. Texas, Baylor, Tech, Oklahoma, and OSU were all unanimous in adding TCU to prevent the SEC from getting them. There is a chance Houston could be added down the road if they prove themselves to be truly serious about building an elite athletic program. But, for years and years, they neglected to invest in their programs. And, the results were proven on the field. I think Houston's had something like 1 ranked team in football or basketball over the last 20 years. That's neither here nor there, b/c at the end of the day, TCU was a defensive maneuver. The original goal was BYU and one other. When they got too big for their britches, it became WVU & Pitt. When Pitt wavered due to the league's uncertainty & the SEC started visiting Ft. Worth to talk expansion, the Big XII turned their focus to defending their stake in the Metroplex.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I usually do post references and citations. The guy here that felt the need to insult me, has repeatedly failed to provide any references for what he's presenting, so I'm just playing on the playground......

But anyway - regarding my last comments. It's happening people. Football is coming back in the northeast. The Patriot league voted to institute full athletic scholarships for football, just 3 weeks ago. They're putting in a plan to have every school able to provide 60 scholarships.

http://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2012/2/13/FB_0213121423.aspx

Football is coming back in the Northeast, from the combination of the Ivy league scholarship decision to discontinue, and the division 1-A stadium requirements, the damage that Joe Paterno did to northeast football, in elevating Penn State football out of it all, and then the implementation of title IX and effects on athletic departments in the 1970s and revenue streams around football scholarships and level of competition...all of that effectively reduced football in the region to really low levels. Basketball rose up. All the other youth sports rose up around here, that you don't find elsewhere in the country nearly as much at youth levels.

It starts with the major public institutions in the region, getting back to the top level of competition and away from the 1-AA "cost containment" football experiment. UConn is leading the way, and I couldn't be prouder.

They like to think they invented football in the south, but they didn't. Football is our invention.

 

[HuskyHawk]

What handle was Carl using? i don't remember anyone posting about this stuff 2 years ago on Scout.

And Carl, it still appears to be your opinion that UConn would not desire ACC membership. You're always asking people to cite facts or link stories, so where's the proof? "Nope. Obviously couldn't trust UConn leadership to sit in Big East meetings, and do what Syracuse and Pittsburgh leadership did, and for that matter, what WVU leadership did a few weeks later. We were very much face to face in the open with our intentions. Dave Gavitt, and his league, mean everything to where UConn is right now as both an academic and athletic institution."

That's the piece I simply cannot believe. If UConn didn't want to jump to the ACC the moment BC left (knowing that Syracuse wanted to depart), then everyone in the administration should have been tarred and feathered. I find it very hard to believe that we would be any less receptive to joining the ACC than Syracuse or Pitt.

 

[Dann]

What handle was Carl using? i don't remember anyone posting about this stuff 2 years ago on Scout.

And Carl, it still appears to be your opinion that UConn would not desire ACC membership. You're always asking people to cite facts or link stories, so where's the proof? "Nope. Obviously couldn't trust UConn leadership to sit in Big East meetings, and do what Syracuse and Pittsburgh leadership did, and for that matter, what WVU leadership did a few weeks later. We were very much face to face in the open with our intentions. Dave Gavitt, and his league, mean everything to where UConn is right now as both an academic and athletic institution."

i think he was YGC or yankeeghostconf

 

[Carl Spackler]

That's the piece I simply cannot believe. If UConn didn't want to jump to the ACC the moment BC left (knowing that Syracuse wanted to depart), then everyone in the administration should have been tarred and feathered. I find it very hard to believe that we would be any less receptive to joining the ACC than Syracuse or Pitt.

If you've been reading what I"ve been writing for a long time, then you now completely understand why I was so pissed off with my alma mater from 2003-2011. Jeff Hathaway and Philip Austin sat in the Big East meetings in 2003 and didn't budge on solidarity with the Big East. You know who else knew - and understood - Randy Edsall. I have my faults with Randy, most of them having to do with the way he approached the game - I just prefer an entirely different approach, but the man understood football, and he did know that UConn had a ceiling with the way we were handling things.

It wasn't until President Herbst, after Syracuse and Pitt left, that UConn has ever demonstrated any hint of non-solidarity with the Big East.

THe big east deserves our loyalty, because we owe everythign we are in 2012 to the conference. We also, are everything we are, and hte situation we're in, because of it too. Two sides to every coin.

 

[Carl Spackler]

BTW - things have changed dramatically since 2003, and since 2010 for the Big EAst and for UConn. For UConn and for the Big East. THe same problem that the big east had for so long, placing economic importance in intercollegiate athletics of basketball above football, has been happening at UConn. The same pains the Big East has had to go through, happening at UConn too.

There is no diminishing the power of college basketball, and it's importance, and enjoyment of it, in acknowledging, and operating your intercollegiate athletics business in such a way that the understanding is....in the words of the Mike Tranghese recently..(paraphrasing)...."coming to understand that football drives the cart."

With that change, the ceiling for UConn football, and the university athletic department, and the university itself, is limited, only by how high we set our goals, and how hard we work to get there.

We're going to continue to dominate in basketball. We're going to continue to grow in football and get into the national spotlight. Jim Calhoun and the Big East conference installed that will into the Univeristy.

When Lou Holtz was coaching at UConn, and even very recently, always said that the only thing holding back UConn from going to the top was the committment from leadership at the school to make it happen. That's changed.

1-AA football began quite literally - as what was known as "cost containment" football. UConn went from division 1, to 1-AA.

If not for Big East basketball, we'd still be struggling with the rest of the football world that is finding out the hard way that there are very few institutions that can make 1-AA football work well,and wouldn't have the opportunities we have today after going back to division 1, now 1-A.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Husky Hawk - read this: The only thing Hathaway and Austin were concerned about was revenue sharing. Jake Crouthamel went on record saying he'd resign if the Big East expanded the way they planned. He did resign. Leahy is openly talking about pursuing the ACC. The press statement set for issue in Oct. 2003, says all you need to know about why the big east has been hemorrhaging footblal programs left and right for 20 years.

http://mysite.verizon.net/fethrs/Minutes July 2003.pdf

http://mysite.verizon.net/fethrs/Minutes October 2003.pdf

pulled off the internet from this:

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/ot-meeting-minutes-big-east-after-2003-acc-raid

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I usually do post references and citations. The guy here that felt the need to insult me, has repeatedly failed to provide any references for what he's presenting, so I'm just playing on the playground......

But anyway - regarding my last comments. It's happening people. Football is coming back in the northeast. The Patriot league voted to institute full athletic scholarships for football, just 3 weeks ago. They're putting in a plan to have every school able to provide 60 scholarships.

http://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2012/2/13/FB_0213121423.aspx

Football is coming back in the Northeast, from the combination of the Ivy league scholarship decision to discontinue, and the division 1-A stadium requirements, the damage that Joe Paterno did to northeast football, in elevating Penn State football out of it all, and then the implementation of title IX and effects on athletic departments in the 1970s and revenue streams around football scholarships and level of competition...all of that effectively reduced football in the region to really low levels. Basketball rose up. All the other youth sports rose up around here, that you don't find elsewhere in the country nearly as much at youth levels.

It starts with the major public institutions in the region, getting back to the top level of competition and away from the 1-AA "cost containment" football experiment. UConn is leading the way, and I couldn't be prouder.

They like to think they invented football in the south, but they didn't. Football is our invention.

Just curioius, what football schools in the northeast and by that I mean the New England and Mid-Atlantic schools did Joe Paterno damage due to the stadium capacity requirement? Generally save for the Ivy schools his main competition for recruits has remained the same plus the addition of Buffalo, UConn and UMass.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Just curioius, what football schools in the northeast and by that I mean the New England and Mid-Atlantic schools did Joe Paterno damage due to the stadium capacity requirement? Generally save for the Ivy schools his main competition for recruits has remained the same plus the addition of Buffalo, UConn and UMass.

With the 'fan relations', or 'public support' clause that went into defining 1-A status as a football program, and the dividing of Division 1, into 1-A, and 1-AA. There were obviously other issues that went into 1-A and 1-AA status qualification. But the public support part is what you're referencing - I don't remember the exact terminology without looking it up...but anyway - with the requirments taht were put into 1-A status in that clause, the only institutions north of Mason Dixon and East of State College that immediately qualified as 1-A were Syracuse, Boston College and Yale.

Every other college that was previously division 1, university or college division - was no longer recruiting competition.

So any football player in that entire region, if they were good enough, and wanted to play 1-A - had 4 choices within a days driving distance. PSU, Yale, Cuse or BC. It's no coincidence that Paterno's national champoinships came in the 80s. He barely had to lift a finger to recruit for them.

What it also did, was open up the Northeast for recruiting for all the programs in the country. Big 10 programs and Notre Dame have recruited the northeast easily ever since.

Yale hung on until 1982. Every single other football program in the northeast was immediately relegated to either division 1-AA or division 2 status, and either was forced to upgrade their facilities to the new standard seating capacities, to regain 1-A status.

There was a lot that went into all of it, the stadium seating capacity was just one part, and that was Paterno's contribution. Most of the colleges in the northeast,including us, willingly agreed to 1-AA status. Toner favored 1-AA status, and like the concept of 'cost containment' football, from what I know.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[jrazz12]

If anyone was curious, this thread is a lot better if Carl's posts are ignored

 

[CougarRed]

What is the new stadium projected capacity? Our stadium seats 40k capacity but was built with blueprints to seat 50k, and the footings and foundation in place such that when expansion is approved, it's all above ground, quick consturction.

Hi Carl

Our new stadium will seat 40,000 initially. Like yours, it will be built such that it can easily be expanded in 2 phases: to 50,000 initially, then 60,000 for a final capacity.

The stadium will cost $100-120M. We are also renovating the basketball arena for $30-40M. We have raised over $60M privately. The students just passed an athletic facility fee that will allow us to float $40-48M in bonds. We are negotiating naming rights for the football stadium which should yield $25M. RFQs for architects went out in January, and we should name the football stadium architect within the next 3 weeks.

All systems are go. Both the new football stadium and the renovated basketball arena should be ready by the fall of 2014.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Just curioius, what football schools in the northeast and by that I mean the New England and Mid-Atlantic schools did Joe Paterno damage due to the stadium capacity requirement? Generally save for the Ivy schools his main competition for recruits has remained the same plus the addition of Buffalo, UConn and UMass.

Sorry for the long winded answer - just realized I may have not answered your question. If you want to start a list of colleges, start with the list of colleges in teh Patriot league that just within the past month have agreed to start offereing large numbers of scholarships for football again. Those schools didn't have a chance to land 1-A quality players once the stadium requirements were put in place. Add to that list, all the 1-AA programs in the yankee conference that previously were pulling top quality players from the region.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Hi Carl

Our new stadium will seat 40,000 initially. Like yours, it will be built such that it can easily be expanded in 2 phases: to 50,000 initially, then 60,000 for a final capacity.

The stadium will cost $100-120M. We are also renovating the basketball arena for $30-40M. We have raised over $60M privately. The students just passed an athletic facility fee that will allow us to float $40-48M in bonds. We are negotiating naming rights for the football stadium which should yield $25M. RFQs for architects went out in January, and we should name the football stadium architect within the next 3 weeks.

All systems are go. Both the new football stadium and the renovated basketball arena should be ready by the fall of 2014.

Thanks for the info. Awesome. I love to hear about growth. It mirrors almost exactly what UConn did. The big east has plan that works. I'm pretty sure that in Memphis right now, they're getting the ball rolling on building the facilities they'll need. Welcome to the Big East.