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Cool - there's two. EVERY conference champ being involved is the key - ABSOLUTELY. Figure out the format from there. Got to leave a week for finals in December, but it can be done - a true playoff b/w Dec - early Januray.

You can run an invite bowl system at the same time.

The conference shifting, re-alignment never ends, without a playoff format that includes all conference champions.
 
TCU is about 5 years ahead of UH in building their program. TCU has averaged 10 wins a year for the last 12 seasons. Houston has averaged 9 wins a year for the last 6 seasons. Last year, TCU sold 20,000 season tickets and Houston sold 13,000. TCU is finishing their stadium project in 2012. Houston is starting theirs in 2012. With the Big East and a new stadium, Houston should hit 20,000 season tickets by ~2014.

That said, with the departure of the Aggies, the Big 12 lost nearly half its appeal in Houston. People here watch UT, A&M and Houston. Big 12 games not involving UT or A&M lag SEC games here. If the Big 12 wanted to preserve its dominance in the Houston market, they needed to add Houston. Now, the city of Houston will be a split market between the Big 12, SEC and Big East. Texas, Texas A&M and Houston games will be the big draws. Then SEC games not involving A&M. Then Big 12 games not involving Texas. Then Big East games not involving Houston.


Yep, I agree!! This is basically the EXACT reason that UH should have gotten invite to Big 12 over TCU, imo.
 
If anyone was curious, this thread is a lot better if Carl's posts are ignored

Agreed. But, it's somewhat strange when posters reply and it sounds/looks like they're having a conversation w/ themselves. I can't imagine what my life would be like if I hadn't discovered the ignore function around page 4.

Agreed! He's only in this thread just to argue. I stopped reading his posts after his 1st or 2nd post.
 
Inside - I firmly believed that the ACC expanded by 2 to invoke the ESPN renegotiate clause and at the time they believed each team would get about $5m more (with SyraPitt getting a diluted share). Now that we see that the number may by just $1.7m and the ACC had to lenghten the contract and throw in some tier rights (I think that's correct) aren't they pissed? I hope your firm was not involved with the ACC and estimated $5m (not trying to be cute). I do know, quite reliably, that $5m was the number talked about. What a miscalculation and FSU and Clemson who agreed to the much higher $20m exit fee have to be even more upset that their yearly take only goes up by $1.7m
 
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Inside - I firmly believed that the ACC expanded by 2 to invoke the ESPN renegotiate clause and at the time they believed each team would get about $5m more (with SyraPitt getting a diluted share). Now that we see that the number may by just $1.7m and the ACC had to lenghten the contract and throw in some tier rights (I think that's correct) aren't they pissed? I hope your firm was not involved with the ACC and estimated $5m (not trying to be cute). I do know, quite reliably, that $5m was the number talked about. What a miscalculation and FSU and Clemson who agreed to the much higher $20m exit fee have to be even more upset that their yearly take only goes up by $1.7m

Unlike anything he's posted, what you've written here, can be verified online through multiple, indendant, trustworthy resources.
 
I've never ignored anyone before. It's funny that it says the last post in this thread was made by "ignored member," hehe
 
Inside - I firmly believed that the ACC expanded by 2 to invoke the ESPN renegotiate clause and at the time they believed each team would get about $5m more (with SyraPitt getting a diluted share). Now that we see that the number may by just $1.7m and the ACC had to lenghten the contract and throw in some tier rights (I think that's correct) aren't they pissed? I hope your firm was not involved with the ACC and estimated $5m (not trying to be cute). I do know, quite reliably, that $5m was the number talked about. What a miscalculation and FSU and Clemson who agreed to the much higher $20m exit fee have to be even more upset that their yearly take only goes up by $1.7m
No, as I've said throughout this thread, we did the valuations for ESPN. The ACC actually kept their valuations internal (smh). I don't know anything about them expecting to get a $5M bump, but if so, that's pretty sad. To assume you'd get $5M from Pitt & Syracuse, you'd have to value both programs at $70M per year.........b/c $70M divided by 14 teams is $5 year per team.

FWIW, FSU & Clemson (amongst others) talked the ACC down to $20M from the $34M exit fee they were trying to pass.
 
Inside:

Any feedback on questions I asked in post #306 back on page 21? Thanks in advance.
 
FromTheInside:

Sooner/ B12 fan here. Interested on your take on the following questions (secondarily relevant to UConn fans, given possible impacts on ACC):

1. Whether 2012 valuations are doing any discounting of B12 due to perceived instability, or is that perception no longer a factor?

2. If the selection of the next B12 commissioner is linchpin in B12 expansion success, who moves the needle the most: ND AD Jack Swarbrick, Conf. USA Commissioner Britton Banowsky, NCCA guru Greg Shaheen or former NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol?

3. Regarding tier III rights, why would an OU game that Fox did not in previous years select for tier II broadcast and which would then fall to PPV status, now become attractive enough to pay to put on FSW or FOK? In other words, how does Fox’s valuation of Oklahoma’s available games differ from that of Learfield Sports, so as to justify paying more for the new deal to put OU content on Fox regional networks?

4. Regarding tier III rights, how are valuations done for agreements to carry games on the internet, such as the K-State model? And do you see this type of model becoming profitable for schools with available tier III rights, in the foreseeable future?

5. Do you have any information whether the ABC/ESPN-B12 tier I contract extension requires the B12 schools to extend their assignment of media rights to the conference for the duration of the extension, or at least beyond the current six year period?

6. You stated in the other thread that the new B12 tier I contract has provisions for increasing the payout, if certain schools are added to the conference. You also speculated on who the B12 is or may be approaching. Are all of these schools included in the contract clause, and are there any more included that you did not mention? (Louisville and BYU are notably absent).
(1) We do the valuations, but we're not involved in the negotiations. So, I don't know if ESPN applied anything like that to our numbers. But, I said on page 1, nearly a week before the contract was announced that the ABC/ESPN contract would put the Big XII in the $19M - $23M payout range, and they came in towards the lower end of my expectations. So, there doesn't appear to have been any discounting. And, I never got the sense that ESPN considered the Big XII to be unstable. Once their TV rights were assigned to the conference, they were locked in. And, I know that members are open to the idea of extending that granting of rights if need be.

(2) I really have no idea on who moves the needle the most with regards to the next Big XII commissioner. I haven't heard anything with regards to who's being interviewed or how those candidates are perceived by potential target programs, etc.

(3) There are a lot of reasons why an OU game that would get passed on by FSN for Tier 2 would suddenly have value as a Tier 3 program. But, you have to understand Tier 2 contracts. They are not for "all" games not selected by a conference's Tier 1 partner. They're for a set number of games. And, every conference has stipulation on how many games the provider must select from each university. So, as is/was the case with a handful of OU games each year, there are games that are passed from almost every university......not b/c the Tier 2 partner doesn't want to broadcast them, but b/c they can only broadcast so many games, and they have to broadcast a certain # of games from every program. If they didn't do that, then smaller drawing teams like Baylor would never make it on TV, and that would put them at a competitive disadvantage. Tier 3 broadcasts have a lot of value, and it isn't very hard to turn a serious profit. Take the OU contact for instance. They're going to provide FSN with 1,000 - 1,500 hours of programing a year. Because the number of hours are huge, it doesn't take a ton of ad revenue to make a serious profit.

(4) Internet based media valuations are almost always done in house, b/c the formula is much more simplistic. You generally have a straight-forward subscription based service + targeted ad placements - operating costs, which are generally minimal. Internet based Tier 3 programing is a very profitable model, b/c it doesn't require carrier negotiations (ala DirecTV, etc). It's hard for me to imagine a time when we watch TV on the internet. But, w/ the direction of technology & the continuing increase in computer screens, I could easily see this type model being highly lucrative in 5 years or so. Just think about it.......if you sold 50k subs for $5/mo, you're looking at $3M/yr in revenue, not counting ad revenue. It's not hard to imagine a day when technology allows the internet to be monetized to a significant degree w/ regards to Tier 3 broadcasts.

(5) I don't believe the ABC/ESPN contract requires an extension of their assignment of their TV rights. But, I do know that the topic has been discussed, especially if the Big XII moves forward w/ expansion plans (an extension is something FSU has mentioned as wanting in conversations w/ unofficial Big XII representatives).

(6) I do not know with certainty which schools are on the list. But, the schools that I know are of interest to the Big XII are: FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, Miami, NC State, VA Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Louisville, Arkansas, and BYU. That doesn't mean there aren't more, or that all of them would be considered acceptable expansion targets. But, I know they have come up during internal Big XII meetings/discussions. There are others that have as well, such as Cincy & Rutgers, but not w/ as much fanfare.
 
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Nelson:

Believe it or not, along with independence, ND also has strongly valued having its home games broadcast nationally on an over-the-air TV network (not ESPN/cable).

Hell, the ND administration doesn't like the idea that Comcast is going to put one ND home game per year on NBC Sports (Versus).

Now, you and I both know that ESPN is not going to pay $90 million dollars for ND alone and if ESPN offered an extremely large contract, ND may likely change that stance.

I am not convinced that UConn would be in the ACC either if it had played ND. I do agree that it was shortsighted for UConn to reject the deal. ND just found someone else to play.

I just wanted you to know that ND places value on things that others may find a bit strange, like its national Catholic university identity (over Big Ten Network dollars) and its nationwide over the air network contract with NBC.

I think that this has been a great thread.
 
If you've been reading what I"ve been writing for a long time, then you now completely understand why I was so pissed off with my alma mater from 2003-2011. Jeff Hathaway and Philip Austin sat in the Big East meetings in 2003 and didn't budge on solidarity with the Big East. You know who else knew - and understood - Randy Edsall. I have my faults with Randy, most of them having to do with the way he approached the game - I just prefer an entirely different approach, but the man understood football, and he did know that UConn had a ceiling with the way we were handling things.

It wasn't until President Herbst, after Syracuse and Pitt left, that UConn has ever demonstrated any hint of non-solidarity with the Big East.

THe big east deserves our loyalty, because we owe everythign we are in 2012 to the conference. We also, are everything we are, and hte situation we're in, because of it too. Two sides to every coin.
since pitt and syracuse left, what has the BE done that has you so enamored and believing that the league officials 'get it'? It's like saying The French finally got it when the Germans were hanging their flags from every building in Paris.
I like some of the additions, but lets be real, they were made out of desperation. Not because the league got it. The were down to 5 FB teams!!!!. That's what it took for this league to figure out they needed to do something, and every post you say things have changesd.
If the league got it, they would make some moves to stabilize this league and not have 30 teams affiliated with 30 different agendas. I get Navy for fb only, but Boise and SDSU should have regional rivals and be in for all sports. Instead of hitting a grand slam when we needed it, we got a single. That's the same old leadership we had in 2003.
 
Nelson:

Believe it or not, along with independence, ND also has strongly valued having its home games broadcast nationally on an over-the-air TV network (not ESPN/cable).

Hell, the ND administration doesn't like the idea that Comcast is going to put one ND home game per year on NBC Sports (Versus).

Now, you and I both know that ESPN is not going to pay $90 million dollars for ND alone and if ESPN offered an extremely large contract, ND may likely change that stance.

I am not convinced that UConn would be in the ACC either if it had played ND. I do agree that it was shortsighted for UConn to reject the deal. ND just found someone else to play.

I just wanted you to know that ND places value on things that others may find a bit strange, like its national Catholic university identity (over Big Ten Network dollars) and its nationwide over the air network contract with NBC.

I think that this has been a great thread.

thanks, terry. And please thank Notre Dame for giving us catholicism. And for making the irish so plucky.

sorry, it has been a bad day for uconn, and your tone is a little overbearing.
 
Sorry for the long winded answer - just realized I may have not answered your question. If you want to start a list of colleges, start with the list of colleges in teh Patriot league that just within the past month have agreed to start offereing large numbers of scholarships for football again. Those schools didn't have a chance to land 1-A quality players once the stadium requirements were put in place. Add to that list, all the 1-AA programs in the yankee conference that previously were pulling top quality players from the region.

No problem Carl, but we maybe talking about a diffrent level of player. I think its great that the Patriot League is contributing to the overall scholarship pool. But back in the 70's Paterno's main competition for recruits came from the Ivy's, Pitt, WVU. Maryland, BC, Syracuse, Temple, Villanova, Rutgers, perhaps less so with the Military Academies and in the state of Ohio. These were the schools that were largely on his schedule from his recruiting area. I agree he bumped heads on occasion for recruits with the likes of the Yankee Conference but all these schools were already playing at a different level at the time than the ones you mentioned above. And thats hasn't changed much. The only school adversely affected by the stadium clause save for a couple of the Ivies was Villanova but that was balanced by Rutgers' rise in level of competition. Whole hearttily agree that the legislation helped contain the expansion of that compettion. Think the attendence clause was even more of a hindrance.
 
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From a value standpoint to a conference, BYU would be a no brainer for any conference in the country. They have strong TV #s, though it's largely concentrated in the pacific & mountain time zones. They have strong football & basketball attendance. Their athletic revenue is excellent. If BYU were in Kentucky, the Big XII, SEC, and ACC would be fighting to add them. The only things working against them are geography & having a reputation as more self-focused than conference-focused. As a fan, I'd like to see them in the Big XII. But, they'll have to decide they're in it for the Big XII, rather than themselves.

Houston has great potential to be a high-caliber addition to any conference. But, the reason TCU was added had nothing to do with TCU vs Houston, and everything to do with Big XII vs SEC. The SEC was starting to court TCU, and there was no way the Big XII could allow the SEC to get a foothold into East Texas and the Dallas metroplex. Texas, Baylor, Tech, Oklahoma, and OSU were all unanimous in adding TCU to prevent the SEC from getting them. There is a chance Houston could be added down the road if they prove themselves to be truly serious about building an elite athletic program. But, for years and years, they neglected to invest in their programs. And, the results were proven on the field. I think Houston's had something like 1 ranked team in football or basketball over the last 20 years. That's neither here nor there, b/c at the end of the day, TCU was a defensive maneuver. The original goal was BYU and one other. When they got too big for their britches, it became WVU & Pitt. When Pitt wavered due to the league's uncertainty & the SEC started visiting Ft. Worth to talk expansion, the Big XII turned their focus to defending their stake in the Metroplex.

LOL! SEC fans refuse to believe the SEC was ever intrested in TCU, even though it was reported in the "Fort-Worth Star-Telegram" that the SEC made calls to TCU to inquire their intrest in joining the SEC.

Hey FromTheInside, what is value to a confrence of the final 2 schools the Big 12 considered last fall: WV & Louisville?
 
LOL! SEC fans refuse to believe the SEC was ever intrested in TCU, even though it was reported in the "Fort-Worth Star-Telegram" that the SEC made calls to TCU to inquire their intrest in joining the SEC.

Hey FromTheInside, what is value to a confrence of the final 2 schools the Big 12 considered last fall: WV & Louisville?

You will soon learn from having to deal with them as conference mates that West Virginia's value to a league is the money it brings in through exportation of its discount moonshine and coonskin caps for Halloween costumes. Enjoy them. They're a treasure.
 
No problem Carl, but we maybe talking about a diffrent level of player. I think its great that the Patriot League is contributing to the overall scholarship pool. But back in the 70's Paterno's main competition for recruits came from the Ivy's, Pitt, WVU. Maryland, BC, Syracuse, Temple, Villanova, Rutgers, perhaps less so with the Military Academies and in the state of Ohio. These were the schools that were largely on his schedule from his recruiting area. I agree he bumped heads on occasion for recruits with the likes of the Yankee Conference but all these schools were already playing at a different level at the time than the ones you mentioned above. And thats hasn't changed much. The only school adversely affected by the stadium clause save for a couple of the Ivies was Villanova but that was balanced by Rutgers' rise in level of competition. Whole hearttily agree that the legislation helped contain the expansion of that compettion. Think the attendence clause was even more of a hindrance.


Fair enough. No argument from me. I do think that you very much under-estimate the effect that earning the label "1-AA" had on the ability to recruit and what it did to football in the northeast.

“It all started with the I-AA classification. Right away the recruits said to us, ‘I don’t want to play with the second-class citizens.’- Joe Restic Nov. 2006 RIP

The Yale Bowl used to get 20,000 people for a spring scrimmage 25 years ago. They're lucky if they get 15,000 paid, let alone attending, for an Ivy regular season game now, let alone a non-conference game. There are annual rumblings in New Haven about the state of football and desire for big time change, and those rumblings get bigger and stronger every year.

No reason that Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Notre Dame, etc....yes UConn too has high academic standards.....can compete at 1-A and the Ivy's can't.

UConn v. Yale as 1-A teams nationally ranked........can you imagine? :-)
 
OK, so UConn's athletic future is secure because we're going to playing San Diego State and Lehigh is now offering football scholarships again.

Someone close this thread down, problem solved. We "get it" now. I just hope there's room for Lafayette and Bucknell down the road.
 
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It's tucked under your left moob.........along w/ a winning scratch off from '97 and the small island nation of Micronesia.
Well now you've gone and given up your identity...

miss-cleo_display_image.jpg
 
Nelson:

Believe it or not, along with independence, ND also has strongly valued having its home games broadcast nationally on an over-the-air TV network (not ESPN/cable).

Hell, the ND administration doesn't like the idea that Comcast is going to put one ND home game per year on NBC Sports (Versus).

Now, you and I both know that ESPN is not going to pay $90 million dollars for ND alone and if ESPN offered an extremely large contract, ND may likely change that stance.

I am not convinced that UConn would be in the ACC either if it had played ND. I do agree that it was shortsighted for UConn to reject the deal. ND just found someone else to play.

I just wanted you to know that ND places value on things that others may find a bit strange, like its national Catholic university identity (over Big Ten Network dollars) and its nationwide over the air network contract with NBC.

I think that this has been a great thread.


Somebody else around here has been saying these same things all along - me. The tradition of Jesuit Catholic colleges and their missions continues. Let your good judgement and your training be your guide. Notre Dame and BC are the last ones that still play football at the top level. It is completely beyond my comprehension how the leadership at BC can have let that school get to where it's at......but anyway - so many colleges in the past fielding powerful football teams, including Marquette.

The passion that the Jesuit tradition in the big east has put into basketball, I just don't udnerstand why it never went into football properly in the current day.

Probably because I'm a UConn guy. Who knows what all those guys of the cloth talk about behind closed doors. LOL>

But I believe it's changed, and I believe that the mission of Notre Dame, aligned with a Big East conference that values football as well basketball, is going to be a powerful thing in the future.

I hope that the leadership at my alma mater, is very much in tune with the leadership at ND, and with the rest of the big east conference, and I believe it to be so.

At a secular institution, well secular means what it does. The kids have the choice whether or not they go to mass.

I do regret not having an ongoing football schedule with ND, but I'm proud of my alma mater for standing up and saying that we're ok with playing neutral sites, but we want at least one home game.

And I don't believe for a second, that not having a football schedule with Notre Dame had anything to do with UConn not getting the formal invite to teh ACC with Syracuse.
 
But I believe it's changed, and I believe that the mission of Notre Dame, aligned with a Big East conference that values football as well basketball, is going to be a powerful thing in the future.
Notre Dame isn't aligned with the BE. That's the problem. ND is aligned with itself. to the extent the BE is aligned with ND, it works. When it doesn't, ND will drop us like a bad habit. That's a big difference from what you said.
If ND's goal was to save the Northeast football, they could have done so by joining our league. Had they joined, the additions would look like BC, Maryland and maybe Penn State. And Pitt, Syracuse, and WVU would still be in the league as well.
 
OK, so UConn's athletic future is secure because we're going to playing San Diego State and Lehigh is now offering football scholarships again.

Suddenly the thought of Lehigh saving the Big East doesn't seem as crazy as it did this afternoon. I'm adopting them as an honorary Big East team for the rest of the year. Nobody will talk about the supposedly fading UCONN program anymore.

Good Call!
 
norfolk st would be a great mk/tv add for the big east. sarcasm off
 
A lot of people live in the Norfolk/VA Beach/Hampton Roads area. I say bring them in!
 
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