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Rutgers has similar issues, but they have one asset that would/could make them attractive………they’re in a strong TV market, though their own TV #s haven’t been great. Revenue wise, Rutgers has brought in minimal post-season revenue. They draw well when they’re rarely good….VERY well. But, the issue is, they rarely have a quality team in any sport. They’re more of a wildcard for a conference, b/c they could be a huge asset if they get their programs to perform well, but otherwise, they’re middling, with only the appeal of cross-marketing.

More than anything though, the ACC is an academically focused league. They would never entertain the idea of adding teams like Cincy, USF, etc unless it was a life or death (of the conference) type scenario.

So how does UConn fit in? Similarly to Rutgers? Decent market, not a ton of great numbers, but at least very prestigious in basketball? I know our fanbase doesn't travel particularly well, so I'm curious if that killed us a little, too.
 
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The ACC missed the boat with WVU... They weren't admitted because of athletics. The clearly would have been a boost to the league's fb status. wouldn't happen overnight, but a school can certainly address their academics.
 
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So how does UConn fit in? Similarly to Rutgers? Decent market, not a ton of great numbers, but at least very prestigious in basketball? I know our fanbase doesn't travel particularly well, so I'm curious if that killed us a little, too.
I actually think that UConn will begin to travel better soon. As they've become a more national brand, they attract more national talent that heads out to other parts of the country.

And, as the football team gets better and better, they will attract a more devoted following.

UConn football will never have the following of Texas, ND, OU, and a number of others. But I think it can become the class of the remaining BE and outpace Duke, WF, BC and some of the other ACC schools.
 
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I think the Big East will still get about $10-11MM per school, which is half of what they would have gotten if the league had stuck together and added TCU. My suspicion is ESPN's Big East bid got really sticky around $130MM because they knew they could blow the league up for much less than that. I suspect that ESPN's call to the ACC and to Pitt went out within a week of the Big East terminating negotiations.

The ACC's deal is grossly undervalued, and you would think that would make it vulnerable given some of the programs in the league. FSU can't be happy with $15MM a year when Florida is getting almost twice that.

I think the Big East did the right thing in terminating negotiations, although the league should have signed a rights transfer deal concurrent with the vote to terminate negotiations with ESPN. I suspect that the vote would have been different on the ESPN contract if UConn and others realized that Pitt was not prepared to pledge its TV rights. Hindsight is 20/20.
The Big East had exactly a 0% chance of garnering $20M+ per all sports member had TCU entered in the conference & Syracuse, WVU, and Pitt not bolted. The Big East has the worst football ratings amongst major conferences, and the 2nd worst basketball ratings amongst major conferences. And this is WITH Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU! The Big East's football TV ratings last season were 58% lower than the top conference, the SEC. And, their basketball TV ratings from Jan 1 until the start of the 2011 tourney, were 30% below the top conference, the Big Ten. Only the Pac-12 has worse TV ratings for basketball, and nobody has worse TV ratings for football.

$12M - $13M per team is about the max for what the Big East could have gotten.

2011 TV Ratings by Conference
B-ball: Jan 1 - Mar 13, 2011
F-ball: Sept 1 - Nov 30, 2011

Basketball
1,247,000 - ACC
1,049,000 - Big East
1,496,000 - Big Ten
1,069,000 - Big XII
1,229,000 - Big XII*
783,000 - Pac10
1,222,000 - SEC

Football
2,650,000 - ACC
1,884,000 - Big East
3,267,000 - Big Ten
2,347,000 - Big XII
3,008,000 - Big XII*
2,108,000 - Pac12
4,447,000 - SEC

* The Big XII's numbers are skewed, b/c 2 Texas games were aired on the Longhorn Network before a distribution deal had been reached. So, rather than the 6M TVs their games usually bring in, the TV ratings for both were in the low 100k range. The same thing occurred for 8 of their basketball games that were televised on the LHN. Their adjusted viewership is marked with an asterisk.
 

nelsonmuntz

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The Big East had exactly a 0% chance of garnering $20M+ per all sports member had TCU entered in the conference & Syracuse, WVU, and Pitt not bolted. The Big East has the worst football ratings amongst major conferences, and the 2nd worst basketball ratings amongst major conferences. And this is WITH Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU! The Big East's football TV ratings last season were 58% lower than the top conference, the SEC. And, their basketball TV ratings from Jan 1 until the start of the 2011 tourney, were 30% below the top conference, the Big Ten. Only the Pac-12 has worse TV ratings for basketball, and nobody has worse TV ratings for football.

$12M - $13M per team is about the max for what the Big East could have gotten.

2011 TV Ratings by Conference
B-ball: Jan 1 - Mar 13, 2011
F-ball: Sept 1 - Nov 30, 2011

Basketball
1,247,000 - ACC
1,049,000 - Big East
1,496,000 - Big Ten
1,069,000 - Big XII
1,229,000 - Big XII*
783,000 - Pac10
1,222,000 - SEC

Football
2,650,000 - ACC
1,884,000 - Big East
3,267,000 - Big Ten
2,347,000 - Big XII
3,008,000 - Big XII*
2,108,000 - Pac12
4,447,000 - SEC

* The Big XII's numbers are skewed, b/c 2 Texas games were aired on the Longhorn Network before a distribution deal had been reached. So, rather than the 6M TVs their games usually bring in, the TV ratings for both were in the low 100k range. The same thing occurred for 8 of their basketball games that were televised on the LHN. Their adjusted viewership is marked with an asterisk.

You know enough about what you are talking about to be credible, then you take information from Frank the Tank's site without attribution, using a data set that has some issues with it. The SEC number is impossible, since ESPN will often run SEC games against each other on saturday nights. Are you saying that almost 9% of all households in the country are watching ESPN and ESPN 2 every Saturday night? Impossible. There is no definition on the viewers on Frank the Tank's site, so the numbers do not have any meaning.

You also must know much more than every single Big East President, since I believe the vote was unanimous to reject the ESPN deal.

The fact that the Big 12 got the deal it got AFTER losing its 3 biggest markets outside of Texas and splitting Texas with the SEC is an indication that it is a seller's market.
 

Fishy

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You know enough about what you are talking about to be credible, then you take information from Frank the Tank's site without attribution.....

That raised an eyebrow here, too.
 
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You know enough about what you are talking about to be credible, then you take information from Frank the Tank's site without attribution, using a data set that has some issues with it. The SEC number is impossible, since ESPN will often run SEC games against each other on saturday nights. Are you saying that almost 9% of all households in the country are watching ESPN and ESPN 2 every Saturday night? Impossible. There is no definition on the viewers on Frank the Tank's site, so the numbers do not have any meaning.

You also must know much more than every single Big East President, since I believe the vote was unanimous to reject the ESPN deal.

The fact that the Big 12 got the deal it got AFTER losing its 3 biggest markets outside of Texas and splitting Texas with the SEC is an indication that it is a seller's market.


This. I wonder if it would be possible to go to the tables in Sept. with both Taglibue and Neinas flanking Marinatto......wide flanks. LOL.
 
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I'm no expert on any of this. Question: does the income or disposable income of the viewers enter in to this at all or does it matter? I would think that the monetary response to advertisers would be much greater in the Northeast than it would be in Mississippi, Alabama, etc. where there is less available income to buy the advertised products? All viewers are not created equal, in other words. Some are worth more than others?
 
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I'm no expert on any of this. Question: does the income or disposable income of the viewers enter in to this at all or does it matter? I would think that the monetary response to advertisers would be much greater in the Northeast than it would be in Mississippi, Alabama, etc. where there is less available income to buy the advertised products? All viewers are not created equal, in other words. Some are worth more than others?

I'm not an expert, but I stayed at Holiday Inn Express....and my answer is........Absolutely.
 
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You know enough about what you are talking about to be credible, then you take information from Frank the Tank's site without attribution, using a data set that has some issues with it. The SEC number is impossible, since ESPN will often run SEC games against each other on saturday nights. Are you saying that almost 9% of all households in the country are watching ESPN and ESPN 2 every Saturday night? Impossible. There is no definition on the viewers on Frank the Tank's site, so the numbers do not have any meaning.

You also must know much more than every single Big East President, since I believe the vote was unanimous to reject the ESPN deal.

The fact that the Big 12 got the deal it got AFTER losing its 3 biggest markets outside of Texas and splitting Texas with the SEC is an indication that it is a seller's market.
[Sigh.] Those numbers are from Nielson.........you know, the company that tracks TV trends & viewership nationwide. They are provided w/in the industry on a daily basis, and are currently sitting on my computer in pdf form. If other websites are regurgitating them, then that's where they came from. I would imagine they were leaked from Nielson's recent year-end report on the state of sports viewership, which is where I got them from.

As for the #s themselves, they represent the average number of viewers for each conference (divided out by sport). My apologies for not stating that in my previous post. The SEC averaged 4.45M viewers per football game. That is NOT 9% of the US population.

As for the Big XII's contract...........I am amazed that for someone who's so hell bent on disproving who I am, you know so little about network sports contracts. For Tier 1 & Tier 2 programing, the market a team is in has minimal impact on the overall value that team has to a network contract. The most important variable is two-part: (a) the number of markets tuned in, and (b) the number of sets turned on. There is an algorithm that looks at total markets, total sets, national market share, regional market share, and length of viewership (i.e. how long someone has the TV tuned into the game). Colorado is and has been, dead weight for the Big XII. It doesn't matter that they're "in" the Denver market. Fans don't tune in. In the 6 years I've been at my job, they have never ranked higher than 8th in TV viewership in the Big XII. Their value to the Pac-12 was simply that while CU doesn't turn on sets, there are a ton of Californians in Colorado who would tune in to watch Pac-12 games. And, when Pac-12 games are on, CO isn't a state that gets Pac-12 coverage (unless there isn't a competing Big XII game). So, CU gives them entrance into a market they wouldn't always have otherwise.

Missouri was similar to Colorado in that they are not very popular in their home DMA. And, that's one of the reason they weren't amongst the SEC's top 10 choices for expansion. But, their fans do tune in significantly better than do CU's fans. And, it's a market that SEC games often aren't broadcast in when up against Big XII games (same as the Pac-12 and CO before adding CU). So, they expand the conference's viewership footprint.

The Big XII didn't "lose" any major markets, they simply lost priority coverage in St. Louis & Denver, and the viewers each team drew. The two big losses were actually Nebraska and Texas A&M. Nebraska's fans would watch anything Big XII related. So, even when Nebraska wasn't playing in the game on TV, they'd tune in. It's one of the reasons they're such a valuable entity. A&M was similar, but more watered down. That's largely b/c being a Nebraska fan is a matter of birth, while being an A&M fan is more a matter of having attended college there. So, there are far more Nebraska fans than A&M fans, despite the fact that A&M is in a larger state. FWIW, West Virginia out draws all of the teams the Big XII lost, except for Nebraska. Now, what we won't know until they start playing in the Big XII is if there is any cross-marketing; meaning, if WVU isn't playing, whether their fans will tune in. That's what makes Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and to a lesser extent, A&M so valuable to a TV contract......b/c you're not just getting their fans when they're on the TV, you're getting their fans when any quality Big XII game is on the TV (this is also why the SEC & Big Ten dominate, b/c they're fans are even more rabid in their viewership). TCU, is much like Boise State in that they actually draw decently well on a national scale, but not as strong regionally. That's due in large part b/c of the novelty factor that successful mid-majors present. If TCU performs poorly (same with BSU), their viewership will tank, b/c they don't have large fan bases. So, TCU could be a better draw than CU & Missouri, but could also be worse. In the end, the Big XII lost in terms of "value added" to their TV contract........just not as much as you'd expect.

And dude, seriously, stop running around trying to grasp onto anything you can to justify branding me a fraud. A week before it happened, I posted on this board how much the Big XII would get out of their ABC/ESPN deal, and what the total payout would be per team. Do you think I just "guessed" right? Come on! Babe Ruth would have applauded calling that shot. Yet, you still are grasping at straws, trying to find some way to distort & contort my words, so you can make yourself believe I don't know what I'm talking about, so thereby, your own theories/logic won't be proven faulty. Do you really think some guy off the street would know as much, and have as much insight into sports network contracts, valuations, etc as I have? If it wouldn't get me in hot water, I'd gladly give you deeper insight and information, all of which could corroborate who I am and what I do for a living. But, that's not going to happen. So, rather than taking every post I make and trying to twist it into something it's not, how about you engage in actual dialog. I've thrown insight after insight after you, and repeatedly you ignore the meat of my posts and toss back some sort of fraud reference.
 
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Carl-
Houston, despite having produced a high-octane offense last season, as well as an undefeated team until the very end, still wasn’t even in the top 7 in viewership in the city of Houston last year.

You are not comparing apples to apples.

Ratings on ABC, CBS, NBC are generally a lot larger than ESPN which is generally larger than ESPN2 and FSN, which is generally larger than CBS Sports, ESPNU, Versus etc.

Many of Houston's games in C-USA came on CBS Sports, a network you often have to pay extra for a Sports package to get.

When Houston has gotten to play on ABC or ESPN2 the last several years, our ratings were tremendous.

For example, on December 3 the Houston-Southern Miss game on ABC was the top rated game in Houston that day by a large margin over:

The SEC title game
OU-Ok State (the de facto Big 12 title game)
Texas-Baylor (and the eventual Heisman winner)
The Pac 12 title game

In fact, the Houston-Southern Miss game outrated most of the BCS bowl games in the Houston market.

BTW - Southern Miss has no fan base in Houston. All those people were tuning in to watch Houston.
 
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I'm no expert on any of this. Question: does the income or disposable income of the viewers enter in to this at all or does it matter? I would think that the monetary response to advertisers would be much greater in the Northeast than it would be in Mississippi, Alabama, etc. where there is less available income to buy the advertised products? All viewers are not created equal, in other words. Some are worth more than others?
That's outside my purview. I can tell you it doesn't factor into the valuations done on the teams themselves. It's possible it may factor into the advertising rates charged, but I wouldn't think so. Products are placed in spots & markets where they are going to best be targeted. It's why you see Lexus & Jaguar advertised during the Master, but Chevy & Ford during college football. It's why a regional seafood restaurant may buy a spot during a BE game, while a regional hunting store does during an SEC game. Advertisers are going to place ads in spots where they're speaking to the right market. Having discretionary income is important, but people spend whether they have a lot of $$$ or not. Almost every guy I know in the rural south has $5k worth of guns, $10k worth of ATVs, an RV or 5th-wheel, and thousands of dollars in other hunting & fishing equipment.
 
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Fromtheinside, forget some of the drivel that gets posted here and know that some of us appreciate the discourse!

I don't care if you are posting this from 3rd period French class, this has been a fascinating viewpoint...........good stuff........
 

nelsonmuntz

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[Sigh.]

As for the #s themselves, they represent the average number of viewers for each conference (divided out by sport). My apologies for not stating that in my previous post. The SEC averaged 4.45M viewers per football game. That is NOT 9% of the US population.

You go back and forth between characterizing the numbers as TV sets and total viewers in your post. Are your numbers Sets or Viewers?

Nielson usually reports numbers in terms of TV sets, which is why I asked what these numbers mean. Is there some kind of extrapolation from TV sets to viewers? And if we are talking about TV sets, and that SEC number is an average of all national games, then I am a bit skeptical, because ESPN generally runs two SEC games head to head on Saturday nights. If that 4.45MM is TV sets, and not viewers, and there are two games running head to head, then the total viewers of ESPN and ESPN 2 on a Saturday night are almost 9MM sets. Since the total population of TV sets per Nielson is just over 100MM, then roughly 9% of the total (TV Set) population of the United States is watching SEC football on ESPN and ESPN 2 on Saturday night. That would be impossible.

IF, on the other hand, your numbers represent total viewers, then why would ESPN bother to broadcast any of this? Those viewer numbers would translate into sub 0.5 ratings, which usually equals cancellation.

What I suspect is those numbers represent TV sets on the major broadcast networks. Since the SEC is broadcast without competition on CBS, 4.45MM sets seems almost reasonable. Most of the ABC games are regional, and ABC essentially decides how many sets there are for a particular game. But I am just a lay person, so WTF do I know? The funny thing is, you are a self-professed expert, and you don't know either.

The fact that you don't understand how Nielson reports numbers really brings your credibility into question. I actually like your insights, even when I don't agree with you, but your tendency to try to bully anyone who disagrees with you with "I am the expert and you are not" is weak, especially when there are some serious holes in your analysis, and you are struggling to interpret the basic data so we can even understand the basis for the debate.

As I have said before, either your argument stands on its own, or it doesn't. Nothing says "fake" quite like resorting to your "insider" status whenever someone challenges you. When I post about something I am an expert in, I don't have to say "I am an expert" every other paragraph. People just know.
 

Dann

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its pretty funny at this point how many boards are watching this thread. wvu/bcu/uh/lv among others.
 
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its pretty funny at this point how many boards are watching this thread. wvu/bcu/uh/lv among others.

Funny you post this, because I figured this thread would be getting a lot of play on boards of teams hoping to get invited somewhere else.
 

UConnDan97

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its pretty funny at this point how many boards are watching this thread. wvu/bcu/uh/lv among others.

Most boards are watching this thread saying, "They can't possibly bicker about the same subject for 15 pages, can they???" For those reading from other boards, let me save you countless hours of additional reading: the answer is "yes.....yes we can...."
 
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Ftinside-you are giving great analysis on why or why not certain bigger conferences are taking certain teams except for UConn, the board you are on. Do you have any info on where we stand in the big picture for the foreseeable future and what made you check out the boneyard?
 

nelsonmuntz

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FTInside,

Why did the Pac 12 get such a jaw dropping TV deal when their ratings suck?
 
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Dennis Dodd wrote a piece recently where he quoted TV media consultants who said

UConn
Rutgers
Houston
Boise State

are the most valuable TV properties in the Big East. I think it was before Navy was invited, but I could be wrong. It was definitely before Memphis and Temple were invited.
 
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Dennis Dodd wrote a piece recently where he quoted TV media consultants who said

UConn
Rutgers
Houston
Boise State

are the most valuable TV properties in the Big East. I think it was before Navy was invited, but I could be wrong. It was definitely before Memphis and Temple were invited.

Hey Cougar, looking forward to having you guys up to Connecticut to crack some pads.
 
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