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so then i ask, how far away is uconn from bcu/pitt/cuse #'s wise???
They're not. All 4 are very similar in terms of value to a TV contract. The difference between BC, Pitt, and Syracuse is all 3 have a relationship with Notre Dame. UConn blew there's up. Were it UConn that scheduled a long series with Notre Dame instead of Syracuse, they absolutely would have taken Syracuse's spot in the ACC. Notre Dame didn't care who it was.......they just wanted to have a regular game in NYC against an opponent that generated some interest in the city. It could have been UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc. But, UConn passed and Syracuse stepped in. Now, Syracuse is the ACC's latest Domer carrot. UConn actually out pulls Syracuse in NYC for football. It was a serious missed opportunity.
 
They're not. All 4 are very similar in terms of value to a TV contract. The difference between BC, Pitt, and Syracuse is all 3 have a relationship with Notre Dame. UConn blew there's up. Were it UConn that scheduled a long series with Notre Dame instead of Syracuse, they absolutely would have taken Syracuse's spot in the ACC. Notre Dame didn't care who it was.......they just wanted to have a regular game in NYC against an opponent that generated some interest in the city. It could have been UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc. But, UConn passed and Syracuse stepped in. Now, Syracuse is the ACC's latest Domer carrot. UConn actually out pulls Syracuse in NYC for football. It was a serious missed opportunity.

God damnit. I knew this was going to come back and bite us in the ass.

The people that thought that UConn and all of it's 10 years of FBS competition were suddenly above playing ND at a neutral location had absolutely no foresight into the ramifications that would have for our program.
 
Great question. There are a handful of dynamics in play with regards to an FSU/Clemson move to the Big XII. First, the Big XII’s current ABC/ESPN contract is 5 years old. It was signed 1.5 years before it took effect, and runs for another 4 seasons. So, the valuation is old. Think of it like the housing market. If you buy a house in 2012 for $200k, and do a kitchen & bathroom remodel, then sell it in 2020 for $300k………the remodel didn’t add 50% value to the house. It added “some” value, but most of it was added by appreciation/inflation. That’s how it is with the Big XII. If they added Florida & Clemson, there is a strong bump in the value of their TV contract. But, a large percentage of that value is in appreciation/inflation.

Right now, the Big XII is worth at least $20M…….possibly more. At the time the Big XII signed their last contract, in April 2007, Texas & OU were big dogs in college football, but the rest of the Big XII was horrible. Nebraska was on a downward slide, and had had multiple coaching controversies. Missouri, OK State, and A&M had been mediocre at best the entire previous contract. K-State had fallen off mightily, and Snyder was out the door. Kansas, Colorado, Iowa State, and Baylor were nobodies. Texas Tech had managed a slew of 8-9 win seasons, but hadn’t gotten over the hump. So, the Big XII’s 2007 valuation was based on Texas & OU’s high appeal, and the overall low appeal of all of the other schools, including Nebraska’s declining TV #s. This is why the losses of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and A&M aren’t as bad as people think……..b/c they actually didn’t contribute much to the last TV contract, aside from regional appeal (which was middling at best for CU and MU).

In the Big XII today, you have Texas & OU both seen as major powers, Oklahoma State has surged into a perennial top 25 team, K-State surging back to respectability, Texas Tech has put together a number of very good teams, West Virginia & TCU, who’ve both had very strong TV #s and an equally impressive resume, are joining the conference, etc. The Big XII went from the #3-4 conference in college football in 2007 to the clear cut #2 conference today. So, even with the losses of teams, their additions and the dramatic improvement of their product, will result in a significant appreciation of value. Then on top of that, you add inflation, and you’ve got a conference that should be able to pull in $19M - $25M per team per year with their next contract.

Now, you add Florida State & Clemson to that. It is true that with either school (and that goes for all schools), you do not get “the whole state tuning in”. But, when non-subscription based contracts are written, they’re based on regional & national appeal (sets turned on). WHERE the TV sets are draw from impacts the value of the contract. TV sets turned on outside a team’s DMA or region have a greater impact on a TV contract than sets turned on in a team’s DMA or region. That’s b/c it allows the network to expand the footprint of the broadcast, which creates a diversity of viewers, which increases advertising prices during those telecasts. So, a team that has super strong regional appeal, but has minimal national appeal, would actually be worth less to an ABC or ESPN than would a team that mas minimal regional appeal, but strong national appeal. Examples of these would be Nebraska (former) & Miami (latter).

Both Florida State & Clemson have strong appeal outside their DMAs. Clemson actually pulls very well in Alabama, Georgia, Northern Florida, and parts of North Carolina & Tennessee. Florida State pulls well across all of the ACC states, plus most of the SEC, as well as in Texas and California. So, it’s not just about the size of the state the team is in. This is why teams like Notre Dame, USC, Texas, Florida State, Florida, Alabama, etc are so valuable, b/c when they’re playing, they turn on sets well outside their geographic region.

The other dynamic at play is that if the Big XII brings in 2 more teams, be they FSU & Clemson or others, they'll be able to reap the rewards of a conference championship game. And still further, the addition of 2 more teams opens back up the conference's Fox Sports contract, which is well undervalued, b/c it was signed in haste to raise the conference's payout to prevent further defections. Their FSN contract has a "fair market value" clause in it, which will allow the conference to get a fair market value if the contract is reopened. This clause is not present in the SEC or ACC's contracts, which is why they won't get the bump in payout that they would on an open market.

So, there are a number of factors at play, all which which combined, significantly impact the Big XII's ability to rake in monster dollars if they land the right combination of teams.

Again, didn't see this before when I was flying on the keyboard. That in bold, is exactly what I'm talking about, that the Big East has the opportunity to do what the NFL did. Create new viewers for it's football programs, from coast to coast.

The only way that happens, is by actually getting the games on nationally, and then being able to schedule as many as possible, such that the home team, is playing their game, in a primetime TV slot. As more local fans, start paying attention to other teams from far away, and the more that a closed league has meaningful games for a title, the more NEW VIEWERS are generated in NEW MARKETS.

You are absolutely correct, college football is stuck in a rut right now, that it's nearly impossible for the so called big boys, to generate new viewers. If you look at the past year, the regular season LSU Alabama game drew more viewers than the BCS game. They're actually losing viewers.

No other league out there has that ability right now, to generate new viewers, that the Big East does. If the MWC/CUSA merger happens, they will also have that opportunity.

The future of the big east absolutely, 100% hinges on the quality of this next broadcasting contract, and truthfully......cue twilight zone music.....I'm not very much concerned about the $ amounts......I'm more concerned about the structure of the contract and how the scheduling and desireable time slots are going to be handled and how many, and what games go out nationally vs. regionally.

With the reach the conference has from coast to coast, it would be a compelte failure to get some kind of regular national broadcasting of big east football games, and work it around Notre Dame broadcasts, either with the same broadcasting company that handled Notre Dame football, or with a different one. We'll see what happens, the big east is up for sale as of Sept. 1.
 
They're not. All 4 are very similar in terms of value to a TV contract. The difference between BC, Pitt, and Syracuse is all 3 have a relationship with Notre Dame. UConn blew there's up. Were it UConn that scheduled a long series with Notre Dame instead of Syracuse, they absolutely would have taken Syracuse's spot in the ACC. Notre Dame didn't care who it was.......they just wanted to have a regular game in NYC against an opponent that generated some interest in the city. It could have been UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc. But, UConn passed and Syracuse stepped in. Now, Syracuse is the ACC's latest Domer carrot. UConn actually out pulls Syracuse in NYC for football. It was a serious missed opportunity.

What is the end game for conf expansion? 4 major conferences? 14, 16, or 18 teams per conference, etc?
 
God damnit. I knew this was going to come back and bite us in the ass.

The people that thought that UConn and all of it's 10 years of FBS competition were suddenly above playing ND at a neutral location had absolutely no foresight into the ramifications that would have for our program.

It wasn't lack of foresight. It was their need to feel important and powerful, as opposed to supporting the progression of the University's athletic programs.
 
They're not. All 4 are very similar in terms of value to a TV contract. The difference between BC, Pitt, and Syracuse is all 3 have a relationship with Notre Dame. UConn blew there's up. Were it UConn that scheduled a long series with Notre Dame instead of Syracuse, they absolutely would have taken Syracuse's spot in the ACC. Notre Dame didn't care who it was.......they just wanted to have a regular game in NYC against an opponent that generated some interest in the city. It could have been UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, etc. But, UConn passed and Syracuse stepped in. Now, Syracuse is the ACC's latest Domer carrot. UConn actually out pulls Syracuse in NYC for football. It was a serious missed opportunity.


Great point. I was, and still am, against the scheduling of Notre Dame football games at a neutral site, without getting at least one game at our home stadium. It's my understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this....that the UConn position (which was also the state legislature position) was that we were willing to play neutral sites, for at least one game at Rentschler field.

But you also reinforce my opinions of the ACC and their relationship with ESPN. ESPN simply wants Notre Dame, and the Big East conference, is in the way. It's a crappy situation for us in Connecticut. ESPN and Connecticut athletics, and the big east conference in general, while currently, have nothing really to do with each other than geographic proximity, and business contracts, have very deep, historic and personal ties - all three institutions - UConn, ESPN, and the Big East.

Believe it or not, one of the very first college football broadcasts on ESPN, was a UConn football game at the old Memorial Stadium. Less people probably watched it than were actually in the stands, but hey - it is what it is.

There are a lot of people in CT that feel completely betrayed by the current ESPN leadership.
 
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What is the end game for conf expansion? 4 major conferences? 14, 16, or 18 teams per conference, etc?

It never ends, conference shifting, expansion, contraction, failure, new conference formation...... until there is a structured playoff for a national champion that involves all division 1-A conference champions.

The supreme court saw to that in 1984.
 
It wasn't lack of foresight. It was their need to feel important and powerful, as opposed to supporting the progression of the University's athletic programs.

Two biggest days for exposure for UConn Football were the Notre Dame game and The Fiesta Bowl vs Oklahoma.

One we willingly stopped and now the other one (re: BCS) we may be locked out of when the new BCS contract is in place.

I should stop racking my brain over this stuff that I have no control of whatsoever, but god damn, I just can't.
 
God damnit. I knew this was going to come back and bite us in the ass.

The people that thought that UConn and all of it's 10 years of FBS competition were suddenly above playing ND at a neutral location had absolutely no foresight into the ramifications that would have for our program.

I agree. Who screwed this up? Hathaway was portrayed as a meek, micromanager of mundane functions. Did he make this decision? Who had the ego to say play at the Rent or we walk?
 
Can someone PLEASE tell me how to place Carl Spackler on ignore before my eyeballs rip themselves out of my head? :mad:

TIA
 
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Can someone PLEASE tell me how to place Carl Spackler on ignore before my eyeballs rip themselves out of my head? :mad:

TIA
click his avatar and option apear on the screen in the profile look. one option is "ignore".
 
Carl-


Yes, but TV contracts aren’t written based on potential, they’re written based on production……and that’s where the BE is way behind the other major conferences. A conference stretching from coast to coast is not the plus you think it is. Yes, there is “potential”, but the BE isn’t going to get paid for that potential. You cannot make people on the Left Coast care about sports on the East Coast. Nobody in Newark is going to turn on the TV and watch an SMU game just b/c they’re in the BE. The teams the BE has recruited all have very weak viewership in their home regions. Houston, despite having produced a high-octane offense last season, as well as an undefeated team until the very end, still wasn’t even in the top 7 in viewership in the city of Houston last year.

Of the new teams the BE has recruited to the conference, not a single one carries their home market. In the entire BE, only UConn and Louisville carry their DMA (their TV region). So, you’re marketing a product to networks in which only 2 of the teams are the most popular team in their region. And then, you look at their popularity outside their region, and it’s abysmal.

So, to do what you want to do, you have to convince collegiate athletics fans to care more about a team than their home region does. And on top of that, the BE suffers from a lack of regional dominance outside the NE. There won’t be much cross-watching w/in the BE. Meaning, a UConn fan is unlikely to turn on the TV to watch UCF vs SDSU, simply b/c they’re BE teams. Now, a UConn fan might actually do that with Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, BC, and other current/former BE members (when/while they were members). But, I can look at the numbers and tell you that very few BE fans are tuning in for Louisville, South Florida, and other teams outside their region. There’s no commonality. There’s no regional rivalry (as in how Texans & Oklahomans dislike each other). The BE can’t manufacture a “family” spread across the country. It’s just not possible. And, there’s no amount of marketing that will change that.

As for time slots, they’re always guided by numbers. Networks know which teams turn on which tvs around the country. Thus, the big boys will always get the best slots, b/c they pull the most viewers.
 
Carl-


I wish your theory were true or possible, b/c despite the fact I’m not a BE fan, I am an underdog fan. I’d love to see the conference bounce back. But, it’s highly unlikely. The Big East is essentially a mid-major w/ AQ status. Just look at where each member was 10 years ago.

Big East:
* Rutgers
* Temple

Conference USA:
* Houston
* Louisville
* Memphis
* Cincinnati

Independent:
* UConn
* South Florida
* Navy

Mid-American
* Central Florida

Mountain West
* San Diego State

WAC
* Boise State
* SMU

Now, does that look to you like the bones of a big boy conference which is going to be able to dominate (or even secure) viewership across the country?
 
Yes, but TV contracts aren’t written based on potential, they’re written based on production……and that’s where the BE is way behind the other major conferences. A conference stretching from coast to coast is not the plus you think it is. Yes, there is “potential”, but the BE isn’t going to get paid for that potential. You cannot make people on the Left Coast care about sports on the East Coast. Nobody in Newark is going to turn on the TV and watch an SMU game just b/c they’re in the BE. The teams the BE has recruited all have very weak viewership in their home regions. Houston, despite having produced a high-octane offense last season, as well as an undefeated team until the very end, still wasn’t even in the top 7 in viewership in the city of Houston last year.

Of the new teams the BE has recruited to the conference, not a single one carries their home market. In the entire BE, only UConn and Louisville carry their DMA (their TV region). So, you’re marketing a product to networks in which only 2 of the teams are the most popular team in their region. And then, you look at their popularity outside their region, and it’s abysmal.
Thank you, this is the same argument I've been positing for years ever since some of the yahoos on here were yelling and screaming for the BE to pre-emptively add UCF and Houston to "get those markets". Just because you're located in that market, doesn't mean anyone cares about you! I would bet a great deal of money that UCF is not in the top 3 of college football viewership in the Orlando DMA. This is what the clowns at ECU still don't get when they rag about how they sell out their 50K stadium in Greenville, NC. No one else in the state of NC cares about them or watches them on TV. The Big East can put lipstick on a pig all it wants, but the majority of the teams we've added do not actually bring in much value of the markets in which they're located. This is the same reason why the DePaul addition in way back when was so puzzling.
 
Carl-


I wish your theory were true or possible, b/c despite the fact I’m not a BE fan, I am an underdog fan. I’d love to see the conference bounce back. But, it’s highly unlikely. The Big East is essentially a mid-major w/ AQ status. Just look at where each member was 10 years ago.

Big East:
* Rutgers
* Temple

Conference USA:
* Houston
* Louisville
* Memphis
* Cincinnati

Independent:
* UConn
* South Florida
* Navy

Mid-American
* Central Florida

Mountain West
* San Diego State

WAC
* Boise State
* SMU

Now, does that look to you like the bones of a big boy conference which is going to be able to dominate (or even secure) viewership across the country?
Don't try and pose logic to him, he only understands that the NNBE is the best thing since sliced bread and everyone in NYC is going to suddenly start watching RU-SMU football games.
 
I agree. Who screwed this up? Hathaway was portrayed as a meek, micromanager of mundane functions. Did he make this decision? Who had the ego to say play at the Rent or we walk?

When we walked from that series everybody was beating their chest telling ND to off and praising hathaway for standing his ground. Now some yahoo come on this board and says it was a bad choice and will cause the downfall of uconn as we know it and everybody is mad...yeesh
 
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The Big East has to market aggressively. They have $20 million coming from WVU and the Big 12. That's way more than what each of the two Big 12 teams leaving for the SEC are paying. In NYC, there are a lot of things to do, too. This would be for the person who is so used to living in NYC, that they wouldn't care to go out on weekends.
 
The Big East has to market aggressively. They have $20 million coming from WVU and the Big 12. That's way more than what each of the two Big 12 teams leaving for the SEC are paying. In NYC, there are a lot of things to do, too. This would be for the person who is so used to living in NYC, that they wouldn't care to go out on weekends.
You can't just market people into watching a product they don't care about. That's a fallacy. The production has to come on the field first in a big way, and just slapping the Big East label on the field isn't going to do the trick. When people in San Diego think college football, (I'd bet most generally don't) they think of the big name programs long before they think of San Diego State. It's why teams like the Royals and the Jaguars can't get people to come to their games, just because they're in the big name league doesn't mean people automatically will show up if they're not interested in the product on the field, no matter how much it's marketed.
 
When we walked from that series everybody was beating their chest telling ND to off and praising hathaway for standing his ground. Now some yahoo come on this board and says it was a bad choice and will cause the downfall of uconn as we know it and everybody is mad...yeesh

Ignore the discussion on this thread, it was still a dumb, shortsighted move. Thankfully the old management is gone. (Edsall, Hathaway, Hogan).

Not that it matters, but I always thought it was dumb to walk away from ND.
 
Carl-


Yes, but TV contracts aren’t written based on potential, they’re written based on production……and that’s where the BE is way behind the other major conferences. A conference stretching from coast to coast is not the plus you think it is. Yes, there is “potential”, but the BE isn’t going to get paid for that potential. You cannot make people on the Left Coast care about sports on the East Coast. Nobody in Newark is going to turn on the TV and watch an SMU game just b/c they’re in the BE. The teams the BE has recruited all have very weak viewership in their home regions. Houston, despite having produced a high-octane offense last season, as well as an undefeated team until the very end, still wasn’t even in the top 7 in viewership in the city of Houston last year.

Of the new teams the BE has recruited to the conference, not a single one carries their home market. In the entire BE, only UConn and Louisville carry their DMA (their TV region). So, you’re marketing a product to networks in which only 2 of the teams are the most popular team in their region. And then, you look at their popularity outside their region, and it’s abysmal.

So, to do what you want to do, you have to convince collegiate athletics fans to care more about a team than their home region does. And on top of that, the BE suffers from a lack of regional dominance outside the NE. There won’t be much cross-watching w/in the BE. Meaning, a UConn fan is unlikely to turn on the TV to watch UCF vs SDSU, simply b/c they’re BE teams. Now, a UConn fan might actually do that with Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, BC, and other current/former BE members (when/while they were members). But, I can look at the numbers and tell you that very few BE fans are tuning in for Louisville, South Florida, and other teams outside their region. There’s no commonality. There’s no regional rivalry (as in how Texans & Oklahomans dislike each other). The BE can’t manufacture a “family” spread across the country. It’s just not possible. And, there’s no amount of marketing that will change that.

As for time slots, they’re always guided by numbers. Networks know which teams turn on which tvs around the country. Thus, the big boys will always get the best slots, b/c they pull the most viewers.

Understood. I think you're wrong though. I think the power that a 3+ hour window of live television broadcasting that a football game brings is more than enough time to create new viewers across the country.

As another poster noted, it all hinges on competition. IF the teams suck, none if matters. But there is a track record a decade long now, showing htat the big east has a plan that works for football programs to elevate to national relevance and rankings.

I know for a fact, and can also show you numbers.... that when UConn was in position to win big east titles, many, many UCOnn fans were tuning into Louisville, Cincinatti and South Florida games against other opponents than UConn. These same fans, would never have thought twice about watching a Cincinatti or South FLorida game 5 years ago. These were all NEW viewers for those programs, in the UConn demographic.

I see absolutely no reason why the fan base of Boise, or SDSU, or SMU, or Houston, which agreed, don't have ownership of their own markets......wouldn't become new viewers for the other programs though, and why a die hard SDSU fan, would not tune into a UConn v. Temple game at 12:3o PST, in November, when the outcome of that game would have direct effect on that SDSU program as the seasons progress, and those other games mean a lot more to their own team's ability to get to the college football post season promised land.

It all hinges on playing competitive football throughout the league though, and you're right, there is going to be a very large amount of selling potential in negotiations. When isn't there in a negotiation?
 
You can't just market people into watching a product they don't care about. That's a fallacy. The production has to come on the field first in a big way, and just slapping the Big East label on the field isn't going to do the trick. When people in San Diego think college football, (I'd bet most generally don't) they think of the big name programs long before they think of San Diego State. It's why teams like the Royals and the Jaguars can't get people to come to their games, just because they're in the big name league doesn't mean people automatically will show up if they're not interested in the product on the field, no matter how much it's marketed.
UConn certainly has surged immensely since the powers that be decided to put UConn at the elite level in college football, requiring the right-sized stadium and proper facilities. Before, there were crowds of 10,000 and less. People do care when there's a brand name attached.
 
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Carl-


I wish your theory were true or possible, b/c despite the fact I’m not a BE fan, I am an underdog fan. I’d love to see the conference bounce back. But, it’s highly unlikely. The Big East is essentially a mid-major w/ AQ status. Just look at where each member was 10 years ago.

Big East:
* Rutgers
* Temple

Conference USA:
* Houston
* Louisville
* Memphis
* Cincinnati

Independent:
* UConn
* South Florida
* Navy

Mid-American
* Central Florida

Mountain West
* San Diego State

WAC
* Boise State
* SMU

Now, does that look to you like the bones of a big boy conference which is going to be able to dominate (or even secure) viewership across the country?


OK - hold on a second. That smacks of lack of understanding, and the concept that southern football is better than northern football. Let's not go there.

The same things were said about big east football in 2003, and expansion of the conference then involved adding DePaul and Marquette. Let that sink in. The football conference of 8 teams, lost 3 teams, replaced them with Louisville, Cincinatti, and South Florida.....and then the conference expanded by adding Depaul and Marquette - you're concerned about the big east being a so called "mid-major"....check where DePaul and Marquette football programs are. It's that kind of leadership in the past among the conference, that led the big east to where it is now.

The current leadership is different, we just don't have a lot of pieces to work with anymore. But Lousiville, Cincinatti, adn South Florida have all seen very high national rankings since 2005, and Cincinatti was a BCS snub for a national title game.

That's what the backbone of Catholic schools, and their basketball conference, has been able to do with "mid-major" football programs that were formerly long term independant 1-A programs.

Take UConn - a football program with a 113 year history, of noodling around and an overall record up to the 1980's when a Joe Paterno product stared recruiting and coaching, had a significant losing record. (We've been a regular overall winner since the 1980s).....but were 1-AA, and then in 1-A football, well, we can be a lot better than we are, and we're working on it, but have two conference titles already.

So - I don't buy that mid-major crap argument that any program comign into the big east, can't or won't be successful nationally. it's all about recruiting for the level of competition you want to be at, building the facilities and infrasructure you want to be at, and then going out and smashing some people on the field.

It all hinges on being competitive on the field. It's a show me sport.
 
A wise man once said : "Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me."

Just to be clear, the NNBE is the poop in the box, and Carl is offering the guarantee.
 
Carl, I know you mean well. I know you love UConn through and through. But at some point you need to realize that, when it comes to negotiate the next Big East contract, when it comes to contemplate our place in the universe, NOBODY is considering court decisions from the 80's, analysis done in the 50's, or the 113 year history of UConn. It has ZERO bearing. When it comes time to negotiate, it's going to based on numbers - money, and eyeballs.
 
Can someone PLEASE tell me how to place Carl Spackler on ignore before my eyeballs rip themselves out of my head? :mad:

TIA

Come on! Just imagine a thread that only he and RutgersAl can post on. The possibilities are hilarious.
 
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