ACC options

[billybud]

Stanford and Cal are way to close in proximity and devalue each other. The NoCal market clearly is not worth 60mil a year to tv networks. The Big Ten already told us that.

Therein is the rub...ESPN wouldn't pay for them either.

 

[djct1999]

Two things affecting the "no" votes for Calford...

1...adding two west coast teams without bumping up individual school payouts

2...A response to Swarbrick...saying that the ACC needed to take care of these schools (while Notre Dame is negotiating a big contract with NBC)

and by bumping up individual payouts, you mean a dispropionate amount to 3 of the 4 saying no.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Stanford and Cal are way to close in proximity and devalue each other. The NoCal market clearly is not worth 60mil a year to tv networks. The Big Ten already told us that.

The NoCal market and Cal and Stanford alumni bases are worth more money than most of the states in the Big 10 and SEC, combined.

We can stop pretending that all of these were rational decisions when the Big 12 added ASU and Utah.

 

[WestHartHusk]

The NoCal market and Cal and Stanford alumni bases are worth more money than most of the states in the Big 10 and SEC, combined.

We can stop pretending that all of these were rational decisions when the Big 12 added ASU and Utah.

Thank you. This board misses some basic points.

Also, anyone saying Stanford and Cal are too close hasn’t spent much time in the Bay Area and doesn’t understand the size of the market.

 

[djct1999]

The NoCal market and Cal and Stanford alumni bases are worth more money than most of the states in the Big 10 and SEC, combined.

We can stop pretending that all of these were rational decisions when the Big 12 added ASU and Utah.

You know better than most, the Big 12 added both because Fox wanted to destroy the Pac 12. They succeeded. Stanford is arguably the best college in America. That means nothing to tv execs. And Cal means even less.

And that is literally whats killing UConn in all of this. By being in the Big East, Fox is getting UConn for pennies on the dollar. Until they become an actual threat to leave, things will remain static. In the end, school presidents are pawns. They will do whatever the execs tell them to do.

 

[djct1999]

Thank you. This board misses some basic points.

Also, anyone saying Stanford and Cal are too close hasn’t spent much time in the Bay Area and doesn’t understand the size of the market.

I have and I do. You seem to take things for face value and are incapable of realizing that the basic points are beneath the surface. Utah and Arizona State was a well orchestrated plan and executed perfectly by Fox. The point starts and ends there. If Stanford (and Cal) were worth anything, they would have been in the Big 10 already. They are not and will not. There is 1 reason for that. They dont bring enough value.

 

[djct1999]

Fact is, its very simple for a company like Fox or Espn to place a value on a particular school. Its black and white. Its objective and non emotional. Either a school adds value or doesnt. Rivalries and tradition aren't factors. We on this board can go back and forth debating the merits of UConn and Stanford vs the likes of BC and/ ASU and Utah, but none of that matters. This latest round of realignment happened for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Apple. Thats it. The mere threat of Apple becoming a player scared Fox to the point where it was worth it for them to destroy a 100 year old league. Without Apple's bid, none of this would have happened.

In my opinion, this will all end sooner than later. I don't think the ACC survives to 2036. I don't the Big 12 will survive either. The moment a tech company buys ESPN, this will be blown up.

 

[CL82]

Fact is, its very simple for a company like Fox or Espn to place a value on a particular school. Its black and white. Its objective and non emotional. Either a school adds value or doesnt. Rivalries and tradition aren't factors. We on this board can go back and forth debating the merits of UConn and Stanford vs the likes of BC and/ ASU and Utah, but none of that matters. This latest round of realignment happened for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Apple. Thats it. The mere threat of Apple becoming a player scared Fox to the point where it was worth it for them to destroy an 100 year old league. Without Apple's bid, none of this would have happened.

In my opinion, this will all end sooner than later. I don't think the ACC survives to 2036. I don't the Big 12 will survive either. The moment a tech company buys ESPN, this will be blown up.

Fox didn't destroy the pac 12. He just didn't see value there. ESPN didn't destroy them either, in fact, they offered them a $30 million deal. Arguably, Apple destroyed them by offering a lowball deal when they knew they were the only better in town, but even that is a reach. Now there's a fairly decent argument that the Big Ten destroyed the pack because it raided it twice and the second round was the straw that broke the camels back. We know, in fact, that had Washington and Oregon not left, the GOR was going to be signed in the conference would've stayed together, oh and we would've been added to the big 12.

No, it was the Pac 12 leadership that destroyed the Pac 12. They should have taken that $30 million deal from ESPN. Once they didn't, their fate was sealed.

 

[djct1999]

Fox didn't destroy the pac 12. He just didn't see value there. ESPN didn't destroy them either, in fact, they offered them a $30 million deal. Arguably, Apple destroyed them by offering a lowball deal when they knew they were the only better in town, but even that is a reach. Now there's a fairly decent argument that the Big Ten destroyed the pack because it raided it twice and the second round was the straw that broke the camels back. We know, in fact, that had Washington and Oregon not left, the GOR was going to be signed in the conference would've stayed together, oh and we would've been added to the big 12.

No, it was the Pac 12 leadership that destroyed the Pac 12. They should have taken that $30 million deal from ESPN. Once they didn't, their fate was sealed.

Yes. But in the end, if Apple didnt get involved, the Pac 12 would have held together. Sure, the greed and miscalculation of the Presidents is a cause, but Apple was the catalyst for this round of realignment.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You know better than most, the Big 12 added both because Fox wanted to destroy the Pac 12. They succeeded. Stanford is arguably the best college in America. That means nothing to tv execs. And Cal means even less.

And that is literally whats killing UConn in all of this. By being in the Big East, Fox is getting UConn for pennies on the dollar. Until they become an actual threat to leave, things will remain static. In the end, school presidents are pawns. They will do whatever the execs tell them to do.

It will matter to TV execs at bonus time, when they get stomped because somewhere in their food chain is a Stanford or Cal grad. And unless they are total idiots, they know that the likely outcome for Fox and ESPN is to get bought by a technology company. There are quite a few Cal and Stanford grads at those places.

I also think the P2 wants no part of a legal war with Cal (and Newsom) and Stanford, because neither school is the kind to go quietly and they can really fudge people’s stuff up.

The easiest answer is for ESPN and/or Fox to pay a league to add those two just so they don’t have to deal.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Fox did something however that could get them in a bit of hot water.

After having told the B-12 that they would pay up for P-5 additions that would bring that conference to 14 members but not beyond that, they agreed to pay up to get that conference to 16 members if those schools came from the PAC. They then went to the B1G who at that point was happy with their newest expansion bring them to 16 members and offered to pay them to expand to 18 members. This move freed up the final two pieces (perhaps even three pieces) to move to the B-12 as at least two of the three were still firmly leaning towards remaining with the PAC until the PAC no longer was a viable option.

 

[JeepCSC]

Yes. But in the end, if Apple didnt get involved, the Pac 12 would have held together. Sure, the greed and miscalculation of the Presidents is a cause, but Apple was the catalyst for this round of realignment.

If Apple didn’t get involved, the PAC would have blown up because no one else was offering them anything to show their games. Refusing ESPN was what did them in.

 

[CL82]

Yes. But in the end, if Apple didnt get involved, the Pac 12 would have held together. Sure, the greed and miscalculation of the Presidents is a cause, but Apple was the catalyst for this round of realignment.

You can make that argument. I think it was mostly naïveté on Apple's part. The thought process was well, we're the only bidder so the value is whatever we say it is. They didn't recognize the fact that their offer had to be at a certain dollar amount to allow the league to continue to be viable. In all honesty they were probably $5M to $9M per school short.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yes. But in the end, if Apple didnt get involved, the Pac 12 would have held together. Sure, the greed and miscalculation of the Presidents is a cause, but Apple was the catalyst for this round of realignment.

Apple was making a business decision which the PAC could have accepted or rejected. The PAC wasn't happy with the linear offers (likely the result of of hubris by not agreeing early on) and was too risk averse to accept the Apple deal, which on its surface appeared appeared deficient in comparison to what the B-12 had but could be spun (shoutout to Waylon) as a very lucrative option. The major issues with the latter is that it would have required an unreasonable increase in subscriber base (reports were that the base would have had to greatly exceed NFL numbers for the deal to become competitive with B-12 & ACC) to be what the PAC felt they needed.

 

[djct1999]

It will matter to TV execs at bonus time, when they get stomped because somewhere in their food chain is a Stanford or Cal grad. And unless they are total idiots, they know that the likely outcome for Fox and ESPN is to get bought by a technology company. There are quite a few Cal and Stanford grads at those places.

I also think the P2 wants no part of a legal war with Cal (and Newsom) and Stanford, because neither school is the kind to go quietly and they can really fudge people’s stuff up.

The easiest answer is for ESPN and/or Fox to pay a league to add those two just so they don’t have to deal.

Lol. Their bonuses will be fine. Besides, Fox’s legal issues aren’t going to go away if Stanford joins the Acc.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Fox did something however that could get them in a bit of hot water.

After having told the B-12 that they would pay up for P-5 additions that would bring that conference to 14 members but not beyond that, they agreed to pay up to get that conference to 16 members if those schools came from the PAC. They then went to the B1G who at that point was happy with their newest expansion bring them to 16 members and offered to pay them to expand to 18 members. This move freed up the final two pieces (perhaps even three pieces) to move to the B-12 as at least two of the three were still firmly leaning towards remaining with the PAC until the PAC no longer was a viable option.

Fox thinks it is 2012 and leagues have to put up with this.

 

[CL82]

If Apple didn’t get involved, the PAC would have blown up because no one else was offering them anything to show their games. Refusing ESPN was what did them in.

I'm inclined to agree and at 30, million per school, it was not a bad offer. I if they did what the big 12 did, take the money and then tighten up the term, we'd all be looking at the ACC as the next domino to fall.

 

[djct1999]

Fox thinks it is 2012 and leagues have to put up with this.

And the acc thinks it’s 2012 thinking carriage fees are sustainable.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

According to Clemson insider, both Clemson and FSU are gone the minute they both get an invite to leave GOR or not.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Lol. Their bonuses will be fine. Besides, Fox’s legal issues aren’t going to go away if Stanford joins the Acc.

You seem like you know the tech industry pretty well, so you know how vindictive these tech people can be. The story line in Silicon Valley is about Richard Hendricks and Gavin Belson trying to destroy each other for 6 seasons, and it is funny because it is true. How do you think a bunch of nerds who were virgins into their 20’s are going to handle buying a sports network run by a bunch of ex-jocks?

Buying Stanford and Cal now would result in two fewer plaintiffs, getting rid of the two most dangerous plaintiffs. Fox and ESPN would have to be run by total idiots not to just fund it and be done with those two.

 

[billybud]

and by bumping up individual payouts, you mean a dispropionate amount to 3 of the 4 saying no.

I meant what I said...makes no sense if ESPN wasn't willing to pay enough to bring them in to the conference...just like Fox didn't for the B1G...if there was viewing interest, there would have been a decent Pac 12 contract.

 

[baggerbob]

So would it be a stretch to say that NC (both) may enjoy their position as puppet masters of the ACC? Why would they want to play second fiddle in the B1G like everyone assumes? Yes, there is money, but how many P4 schools are in financial crisis? I think they may have motives to keep the ACC intact.

North Carolina won't be in charge of anything when the GOR runs out.
This will be remembered by everyone else.
The ACC controlled by North Carolina is officially dead.
Every school will leave when the GOR is up.

 

[JeepCSC]

North Carolina won't be in charge of anything when the GOR runs out.
This will be remembered by everyone else.
The ACC controlled by North Carolina is officially dead.
Every school will leave when the GOR is up.

NC stopped being in charge when the ACC decided to raid the BE in 2003 over Duke and UNC’s objections. It was confirmed when Louisville got substituted for UConn. Everything now was done at the behest of FSU and others.

 

[Nostical]

Interesting to me is why Apple didn’t up the ante when they realized there were mutinies brewing, and pirates lurking in the lagoon. . Had they sweetened the guaranteed portion of the bid they may have held the conference together. Sometimes the aggrieved party has to win some level of concession to feel that they’ve “won”. An additional $2M per school may have sealed the deal. Apple could then have become an active player going forward in the mix. Heads can be hard on both sides of a deal. Apple was simply dabbling in the genre of college sports, unsure of just how serious it wants to be. What it was saying to the PAC is “sign this deal and you’ll get more when (if) the subscriptions grow—but we’re not willing to take that risk.” If you really want the house you’ll raise your offer or waive the inspection. If you don’t and lose it, you were shopping not buying.

 

[upstater]

Fox didn't destroy the pac 12. He just didn't see value there. ESPN didn't destroy them either, in fact, they offered them a $30 million deal. Arguably, Apple destroyed them by offering a lowball deal when they knew they were the only better in town, but even that is a reach. Now there's a fairly decent argument that the Big Ten destroyed the pack because it raided it twice and the second round was the straw that broke the camels back. We know, in fact, that had Washington and Oregon not left, the GOR was going to be signed in the conference would've stayed together, oh and we would've been added to the big 12.

No, it was the Pac 12 leadership that destroyed the Pac 12. They should have taken that $30 million deal from ESPN. Once they didn't, their fate was sealed.

The schools that left were never going to take $30m when they could get $70m. And I’m talking about Oregon and Washington. This was carefully orchestrated by them.