ACC endgame?

[Stinger92860]

If I was John Swofford, I would be in Bristol right now begging, pleading, screaming, throwing chairs, running up and down the halls naked, whatever, until ESPN came up with more money for the ACC.

The ball is in Bristol's court right now. If they want the ACC, they are going to have to pay for it. Either John Swofford will be remember as an idiot whose personal ego sunk a great conference, or he will be remembered as a genius who got ESPN to renegotiate a long-term contract they just signed.

Can the ACC explore the creation on an ACC TV Network with ESPN, ala LHN?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Can the ACC explore the creation on an ACC TV Network with ESPN, ala LHN?

Yes. Basically just hand the ACC it's Tier 3 rights. ESPN doesn't need them, and they are a huge source of friction with every league. Let the ACC follow the Big 12 model. All for one and one for all on Tier 1 and Tier 2, but every man for themselves on Tier 3. It rewards the most valuable programs while allowing everyone to get a good taste of the main deal.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes. Basically just hand the ACC it's Tier 3 rights. ESPN doesn't need them, and they are a huge source of friction with every league. Let the ACC follow the Big 12 model. All for one and one for all on Tier 1 and Tier 2, but every man for themselves on Tier 3. It rewards the most valuable programs while allowing everyone to get a good taste of the main deal.

I think they are working on some kind of major announcement. ESPN isn't stupid. The ACC is too logical a fit for the schools in it to be torn apart by small dollars (like those from the Big XII). I still believe that Delaney knows what Notre Dame asked for when they turned down the B1G, and so he knows what the ACC game them (Bevo-like status is my guess). ND knows the writing is on the wall, and will go all in when the NBC contract is done. So ESPN and the ACC announce some kind of ACC Network, or change in tier 3 rights. Nerves are calmed and nobody else leaves. UConn is probably added, but I don't think the ACC likes any of the other schools out there, UL, USF, UCF, and is worried about a 16th when ND joins. That's why the B1G strike is so strategic, it removes a current school, plus one of the two the ACC had waiting. They are now one short.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think they are working on some kind of major announcement. ESPN isn't stupid. The ACC is too logical a fit for the schools in it to be torn apart by small dollars (like those from the Big XII). I still believe that Delaney knows what Notre Dame asked for when they turned down the B1G, and so he knows what the ACC game them (Bevo-like status is my guess). ND knows the writing is on the wall, and will go all in when the NBC contract is done. So ESPN and the ACC announce some kind of ACC Network, or change in tier 3 rights. Nerves are calmed and nobody else leaves. UConn is probably added, but I don't think the ACC likes any of the other schools out there, UL, USF, UCF, and is worried about a 16th when ND joins. That's why the B1G strike is so strategic, it removes a current school, plus one of the two the ACC had waiting. They are now one short.

We are mostly in agreement. I think the college sports execs at ESPN and Swofford probably haven't slept since Friday, banging out a new deal to hold the league together. I don't think ND ever joins a league all in. I suspect the ACC would stop at 14, but there is a small chance they would expand to Louisville and Cincinnati.

If ESPN and Swofford can't find at least $5MM per school per year, then the ACC is finished, and all hell breaks loose.

 

[HuskyHawk]

We are mostly in agreement. I think the college sports execs at ESPN and Swofford probably haven't slept since Friday, banging out a new deal to hold the league together. I don't think ND ever joins a league all in. I suspect the ACC would stop at 14, but there is a small chance they would expand to Louisville and Cincinnati.

If ESPN and Swofford can't find at least $5MM per school per year, then the ACC is finished, and all hell breaks loose.

I'll disagree on ND...as I think the fear of ND joining for football is what caused Delaney to move at this time. He had those discussions with ND, so he knows what they want. Otherwise his timing is quite curious. I think this was a defensive move for the B1G.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Basically these public comments by ND, VT and others are the ACC threatening ESPN. Either ESPN has to cough up some more cash, or the ACC is dissolving.

 

[RMoore1999]

First of all, I think there is about a 50% chance Swofford pulls a rabbit out of a hat and holds this together by getting ESPN to agree to more money.

If the ACC does blow up completely, I think it goes like this:

UNC, Uva to B1G
FSU, Clemson, GTech to Big 12 with Louisville
VTech, NC State to SEC

I think Louisville gets the nod over Miami. Louisville does have strong football and basketball, and more importantly, has fans. Miami's attendance is abysmal, despite the fact that the team is pretty good this year.

I think UConn gets strong consideration against UNC for the last B1G slot. UNC has the better hoops program and draws a little better than UConn. UNC is also mired in a major scandal, and will be splitting a market with at least one other conference. UNC will pull it out in the end, but the comparison will be closer than most will think. Which won't do UConn any good.

I think there is a meaningful chance that the remaining ACC schools, and several other schools east of the Rockies, say "no mas", and form a new conference. I think the top flight academic schools want no part of paying players, and that is where this is going. I think Duke and Wake may rebuild the ACC with like minded institutions that will be focused on academics first. The key to this would be Vandy and Northwestern. If they joined, and think both would, this academics focused league would be pretty formidable from a marketing perspective. I think a lot of these schools are disgusted by the direction of college football. They don't want to drop to DII, but they don't want to be semi-pro either.

If that happened, the Big East would probably be about the same as planned, less Rutgers and Louisville and plus Pitt and maybe Syracuse.

I know this theme has been floated around here recently, but realignment (and the panic sometimes associated with it for fans of schools without a seat at the table yet) truly does lend itself to delusional posts.

"The key to this would be Vandy and Northwestern. If they joined, and think both would, this academics focused league would be pretty formidable from a marketing perspective. I think a lot of these schools are disgusted by the direction of college football. They don't want to drop to DII, but they don't want to be semi-pro either."

REALLY?!?!?!?

 

[RMoore1999]

Basically these public comments by ND, VT and others are the ACC threatening ESPN. Either ESPN has to cough up some more cash, or the ACC is dissolving.

But this on the other hand makes perfect sense. Not sure it will work, but its a plausible strategy.

 

[Adios]

But this on the other hand makes perfect sense. Not sure it will work, but its a plausible strategy.

It'll work if ESPN is wise enough to pay what the ACC schools should be paid. I seriously would rather be in the ACC than the B1G for geographical rivalries. Look at how unhappy some UMD fans are.

 

[Dann]

It'll work if ESPN is wise enough to pay what the ACC schools should be paid. I seriously would rather be in the ACC than the B1G for geographical rivalries. Look at how unhappy some UMD fans are.

when the b10 is done u could have psu/ruty/tosu/md/uva/ind/nd in a east division with u. thats the best goegraphy i have ever heard of in a conf map wise. acc locations are excuses for old ppl who have hard ons for miami and bc still.

 

[Adios]

when the b10 is done u could have psu/ruty/tosu/md/uva/ind/nd in a east division with u. thats the best goegraphy i have ever heard of in a conf map wise. acc locations are excuses for old ppl who have hard ons for miami and bc still.

Keep dreaming. Of old men with hard ons.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I know this theme has been floated around here recently, but realignment (and the panic sometimes associated with it for fans of schools without a seat at the table yet) truly does lend itself to delusional posts.

"The key to this would be Vandy and Northwestern. If they joined, and think both would, this academics focused league would be pretty formidable from a marketing perspective. I think a lot of these schools are disgusted by the direction of college football. They don't want to drop to DII, but they don't want to be semi-pro either."

REALLY?!?!?!?

The alumni at Vandy and Northwestern view their conference mates similar to how UConn views Southern Connecticut. Complete disdain. How would you feel about being in a conference with Southern? They like their sports, but if they were given the choice of being in a league with like top tier academic institutions or Mississippi State and Minnesota, they would choose top tier academics. There has never been the opening for something like that before, but I think Vandy and Northwestern would take a long look, especially if a network stepped up with reasonable money.

Finally, hell will freeze over before Northwestern or Vanderbilt will openly pay players, and that is the direction college athletics is going.

 

[BlueMAB]

I think the top flight academic schools want no part of paying players, and that is where this is going. I think Duke and Wake may rebuild the ACC with like minded institutions that will be focused on academics first. The key to this would be Vandy and Northwestern. If they joined, and think both would, this academics focused league would be pretty formidable from a marketing perspective. I think a lot of these schools are disgusted by the direction of college football. They don't want to drop to DII, but they don't want to be semi-pro either.

Why would it be formidable? If we are moving toward pay for play, this "academics focused league" would be nothing but another ivy league conference. if players are getting paid, and they refuse to participate, then this league would blow, just like the ivy league who refuses to give out scholarships like everyone else does. how marketable is that league?

I have the answer. In fact, I have all the answers, and I will keep posting them because one of them is bound to be right.

Nevermind, I see what you were doing with your "academic focused league". Well played.

 

[RMoore1999]

The alumni at Vandy and Northwestern view their conference mates similar to how UConn views Southern Connecticut. Complete disdain. How would you feel about being in a conference with Southern? They like their sports, but if they were given the choice of being in a league with like top tier academic institutions or Mississippi State and Minnesota, they would choose top tier academics. There has never been the opening for something like that before, but I think Vandy and Northwestern would take a long look, especially if a network stepped up with reasonable money.

Finally, hell will freeze over before Northwestern or Vanderbilt will openly pay players, and that is the direction college athletics is going.

Can't say competing with Southern would excite me much, but if sleeping with them helped me receive $30M plus annually, I'd wrap it up and take the plunge...I suspect Vandy does the same.

 

[BlueMAB]

Can't say competing with Southern would excite me much, but if sleeping with them helped me receive $30M plus annually, I'd wrap it up and take the plunge...I suspect Vandy does the same.

I'm trying to understand the logic behind calling a novelty conference of academic elites (a new Ivy league) "formidable" from a marketing perspective under the assumption players in other conferences will be paid. What he described is the current Ivy league vs. everyone else. What network holds the rights to their games again?

 

[UCFBfan]

I know we want to be a part of the ACC and aren't out of the woods from leaving the BE but does anyone else take a small bit of pleasure reading how the ACC is squirming about their future? For too long it's been us doing this because of the ACC. After reading this thread I couldn't help but enjoy it a little.

Now, can you please let us in ACC??

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[businesslawyer]

I know we want to be a part of the ACC and aren't out of the woods from leaving the BE but does anyone else take a small bit of pleasure reading how the ACC is squirming about their future? For too long it's been us doing this because of the ACC. After reading this thread I couldn't help but enjoy it a little.

Now, can you please let us in ACC??

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

In other times, I would take a great deal of pleasure from it. But there is no point in rejoicing at damage being done to a house that you want to live in.

 

[upstater]

Why would it be formidable? If we are moving toward pay for play, this "academics focused league" would be nothing but another ivy league conference. if players are getting paid, and they refuse to participate, then this league would blow, just like the ivy league who refuses to give out scholarships like everyone else does. how marketable is that league?
Nevermind, I see what you were doing with your "academic focused league". Well played.

Aren't you assuming all the other schools would pay?

 

[Jericho]

Once Maryland left, people wanted to act like it was the first domino to break-up the entire ACC. And that's what a lot of these rumors/stories have been about, these Doomday scenarios where the ACC breaks apart to the SEC/Big 10/Big 12. But I still tend to believe these are more wishes and hopes than reality. For the same reasons people like to stare at a car crash, there's a fascination with destruction. But I don't believe we're at that stage. Not yet.

What's clear is that the SEC and Big 10 are running ahead of everyone right now. The Big 10 is really ahead of everyone since they have their network up and running and printing money. The SEC remains a bit behind time wise, but not in passion or on the field performance. It seems their big pay day is coming. Any school that has either of these conferences come calling has to really work hard to say no. That's a big reason why Maryland left. The Big 10 is in great shape, is making money, is well protected, is full of great universities, and even fits georgraphically. The SEC has most of that, with the exception of the academic prestige (there's a few good schools, but overall it's not the same).

The good news for the ACC is that the Big 10 and SEC are sitting at 14 and both seem to be eyeing the same prize - Virginia and North Carolina. And this is the strength of the ACC. For various reasons, including political and historical, none of the schools in this region really seem too interested in moving. Yet. So that buys time. Sure the Big 12 remains out there, but they don't offer the same benefits. The cash advantage is much reduced. The geography stinks. The academics aren't the same. It's a minor gain to move there. The only school that seems remotely interesed is FSU. If they left, they might be able to find a partner. But if they stay, nothing else happens. And we've already seen some strong opposition to FSU moving (for example, from their president).

The best bet for the ACC is to hold everyone together. The logical add to round out the numbers if UConn. I wonder if there wouold be some consideration to adding a non-football member for strategic purposes. The most likely option seems to be Georgetown. It would help recapture some of the lost DC market and fits academically and athletically. You can then take a 16 team ACC to ESPN to form a potential network. Yes, ESPN already owns the ACC's rights. But it can be win-win for all parties to form a network and use this huge reserve of sports programming.

Although ACC football is not the best, most of the stuff that falls to the networks would be other sports. Like basketball. And the ACC's advantage in basketball should pay large dividends here. Are these fans not going to want access to an ACC network? Not to mention a strong baseball league and what could have been an awesome lacrosse conference (Maryland's leaving prevents a ful roster of teams). I'd have to imagine there's some discussion between the ACC and ESPN about trying to form some network that could market to every state from Maine to Florida. If you add Georgetown, there's schools in some of the biggest cities up and down the East Coast (Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, Miami, Atlanta, Raleigh/Durham). If that can't make money, not sure what else the ACC can do.

 

[ddminct]

Whatever happened to Observer?

 

[BlueMAB]

Aren't you assuming all the other schools would pay?

Isn't waylon?

 

[RMoore1999]

I'm trying to understand the logic behind calling a novelty conference of academic elites (a new Ivy league) "formidable" from a marketing perspective under the assumption players in other conferences will be paid. What he described is the current Ivy league vs. everyone else. What network holds the rights to their games again?

Who said the premise was "logical"?

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

In other times, I would take a great deal of pleasure from it. But there is no point in rejoicing at damage being done to a house that you want to live in.

Unless you got turned down for bad credit, in which case, duck yeah, that stupid house was for jerks anyway.

 

[BlueMAB]

Who said the premise was "logical"?

Mistake #2 on my part.
Mistake #1 was taking him seriously in the first place.

 

[The Viking]

Jericho,
The worry I have is that they would take a very good academic school with basketball skills and a brand name like Georgetown as a way to balance out appeasing the football schools by taking lowlife Lousville.

That gives them the even number of football teams (14) and elevates them to 16 BB teams when you factor in ND and GTown.

IF notre dame ever decided to go full, they could then add UConn to make it 17BB/16FB, but I just don't see ND going to the ACC full. Which means the only way we get added is likely if an odd number of teams leave the ACC via raid.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why would it be formidable? If we are moving toward pay for play, this "academics focused league" would be nothing but another ivy league conference. if players are getting paid, and they refuse to participate, then this league would blow, just like the ivy league who refuses to give out scholarships like everyone else does. how marketable is that league?

There is a line that those schools are not going to cross. Northwestern or Vanderbilt doesn't take the same "student" athletes that a Mississippi State takes. They compete based on their academic prestige, but they focus on a different type of recruit.

the reason I bring this up is that it is not a given that Duke wants to be in the same league as UConn and Pitt if the rest of the ACC is in tatters. And if a few of the top academic schools, such as Duke, Wake, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, said they were forming a league, there would be pressure on other schools of similar caliber to join. I strongly suspect ND would give the same "5 game" deal they gave the ACC. Those schools can still play big time athletics, but without the cesspool that is the SEC or most of the Big 10. I think Northwestern would join a league like that. I think they are only still in the Big 10 because of the money, and if they could find another home that was reasonable, they would leave in a heartbeat. Vanderbilt is less clear.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Mistake #2 on my part.
Mistake #1 was taking him seriously in the first place.

For you to be right, you would have to assume that Duke would be willing to be in a league with Temple, UCF, Memphis and USF. They could stomach one of them. 4 is out of the question.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

the reason I bring this up is that it is not a given that Duke wants to be in the same league as UConn and Pitt if the rest of the ACC is in tatters. And if a few of the top academic schools, such as Duke, Wake, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, said they were forming a league, there would be pressure on other schools of similar caliber to join.

Lmao. Nelson, I don't even believe you believe half the you write.

 

[UCFBfan]

IF notre dame ever decided to go full, they could then add UConn to make it 17BB/16FB, but I just don't see ND going to the ACC full. Which means the only way we get added is likely if an odd number of teams leave the ACC via raid.

I think UConn's problem is that they aren't a wanted commodity by anyone else right now. This is the biggest reason the ACC isn't acting any quicker. They can do their "due diligence" because they have time. Louisville is a possible target for the Big 12 and there doesn't seem to be any rush by the ACC to jump on that either.

This makes me believe that UConn is the desired move and some schools just need coaxing right now. That's why they can wait until the Dec 1st meeting that is supposedly happening. I feel if they really wanted Louisville they would have already acted to prevent the Big 12 from jumping in.

At least this line of thought helps me sleep a little at night....
This

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[nelsonmuntz]

Lmao. Nelson, I don't even believe you believe half the you write.

You think Duke, Wake, BCU, Pitt, and Syracuse will add UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, Temple, Memphis and UCF?

Do you think that scenario is realistic?