ACC endgame?

[BlueMAB]

Aren't you assuming all the other schools would pay?

Isn't waylon?

 

[RMoore1999]

I'm trying to understand the logic behind calling a novelty conference of academic elites (a new Ivy league) "formidable" from a marketing perspective under the assumption players in other conferences will be paid. What he described is the current Ivy league vs. everyone else. What network holds the rights to their games again?

Who said the premise was "logical"?

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

In other times, I would take a great deal of pleasure from it. But there is no point in rejoicing at damage being done to a house that you want to live in.

Unless you got turned down for bad credit, in which case, duck yeah, that stupid house was for jerks anyway.

 

[BlueMAB]

Who said the premise was "logical"?

Mistake #2 on my part.
Mistake #1 was taking him seriously in the first place.

 

[The Viking]

Jericho,
The worry I have is that they would take a very good academic school with basketball skills and a brand name like Georgetown as a way to balance out appeasing the football schools by taking lowlife Lousville.

That gives them the even number of football teams (14) and elevates them to 16 BB teams when you factor in ND and GTown.

IF notre dame ever decided to go full, they could then add UConn to make it 17BB/16FB, but I just don't see ND going to the ACC full. Which means the only way we get added is likely if an odd number of teams leave the ACC via raid.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why would it be formidable? If we are moving toward pay for play, this "academics focused league" would be nothing but another ivy league conference. if players are getting paid, and they refuse to participate, then this league would blow, just like the ivy league who refuses to give out scholarships like everyone else does. how marketable is that league?

There is a line that those schools are not going to cross. Northwestern or Vanderbilt doesn't take the same "student" athletes that a Mississippi State takes. They compete based on their academic prestige, but they focus on a different type of recruit.

the reason I bring this up is that it is not a given that Duke wants to be in the same league as UConn and Pitt if the rest of the ACC is in tatters. And if a few of the top academic schools, such as Duke, Wake, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, said they were forming a league, there would be pressure on other schools of similar caliber to join. I strongly suspect ND would give the same "5 game" deal they gave the ACC. Those schools can still play big time athletics, but without the cesspool that is the SEC or most of the Big 10. I think Northwestern would join a league like that. I think they are only still in the Big 10 because of the money, and if they could find another home that was reasonable, they would leave in a heartbeat. Vanderbilt is less clear.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Mistake #2 on my part.
Mistake #1 was taking him seriously in the first place.

For you to be right, you would have to assume that Duke would be willing to be in a league with Temple, UCF, Memphis and USF. They could stomach one of them. 4 is out of the question.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

the reason I bring this up is that it is not a given that Duke wants to be in the same league as UConn and Pitt if the rest of the ACC is in tatters. And if a few of the top academic schools, such as Duke, Wake, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, said they were forming a league, there would be pressure on other schools of similar caliber to join.

Lmao. Nelson, I don't even believe you believe half the you write.

 

[UCFBfan]

IF notre dame ever decided to go full, they could then add UConn to make it 17BB/16FB, but I just don't see ND going to the ACC full. Which means the only way we get added is likely if an odd number of teams leave the ACC via raid.

I think UConn's problem is that they aren't a wanted commodity by anyone else right now. This is the biggest reason the ACC isn't acting any quicker. They can do their "due diligence" because they have time. Louisville is a possible target for the Big 12 and there doesn't seem to be any rush by the ACC to jump on that either.

This makes me believe that UConn is the desired move and some schools just need coaxing right now. That's why they can wait until the Dec 1st meeting that is supposedly happening. I feel if they really wanted Louisville they would have already acted to prevent the Big 12 from jumping in.

At least this line of thought helps me sleep a little at night....
This

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Lmao. Nelson, I don't even believe you believe half the you write.

You think Duke, Wake, BCU, Pitt, and Syracuse will add UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, Temple, Memphis and UCF?

Do you think that scenario is realistic?

 

[BlueMAB]

There is a line that those schools are not going to cross. Northwestern or Vanderbilt doesn't take the same "student" athletes that a Mississippi State takes. They compete based on their academic prestige, but they focus on a different type of recruit.

the reason I bring this up is that it is not a given that Duke wants to be in the same league as UConn and Pitt if the rest of the ACC is in tatters. And if a few of the top academic schools, such as Duke, Wake, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, said they were forming a league, there would be pressure on other schools of similar caliber to join. I strongly suspect ND would give the same "5 game" deal they gave the ACC. Those schools can still play big time athletics, but without the cesspool that is the SEC or most of the Big 10. I think Northwestern would join a league like that. I think they are only still in the Big 10 because of the money, and if they could find another home that was reasonable, they would leave in a heartbeat. Vanderbilt is less clear.

So with the understanding that football drives the bus, and the assumption that the major players will be paying players in an open market, you are convinced that a league made up of Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown is "formidable" from a marketing standpoint?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

You initially the following, which will never happen in a million years and I laughed.

And if a few of the top academic schools, such as Duke, Wake, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, said they were forming a league, there would be pressure on other schools of similar caliber to join.

Then responded by adding Pitt and Syracuse to your original 'league' and also conveniently removed Rice, Tulane, Navy and Army.

You think Duke, Wake, BCU, Pitt, and Syracuse will add UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, Temple, Memphis and UCF?

Do you think that scenario is realistic?

And yes, I think Duke, Wake, BC, Pitt and Cuse would have to add at least UConn, Louisville and Cincinnati so there would be 8 teams in the conference. No, I don't think they would add Temple, Memphis, USF or UCF.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So with the understanding that football drives the bus, and the assumption that the major players will be paying players in an open market, you are convinced that a league made up of Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown is "formidable" from a marketing standpoint?

Football doesn't drive the bus. If it did, Maryland would never have been added to the Big 10.

 

[BlueMAB]

For you to be right, you would have to assume that Duke would be willing to be in a league with Temple, UCF, Memphis and USF. They could stomach one of them. 4 is out of the question.

Please tell me what I would be "right" about. All I did was question how the league you suggested would be "formidable".

I don't think they would stomach them. I also don't think the alternative that you suggested would be considered "formidable" from a marketing standpoint. Unless the competition is CUSA, Sun Belt, MWC, and the Big East. That's definitely a better conference than the Ivy League, so they have that going for them.

 

[BlueMAB]

Football doesn't drive the bus. If it did, Maryland would never have been added to the Big 10.

Ok, with the understanding that markets drive the bus (and large college football markets are more valuable), you think a conference made up of Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown is formidable from a marketing standpoint?



All of those programs would be second or third rate viewing options compared to other schools in their footprint except for BCU which is in a pro town.

 

[IthacaMatt]

But this on the other hand makes perfect sense. Not sure it will work, but its a plausible strategy.

It worked for the Big 12 just a year or so ago.

 

[BlueMAB]

Football doesn't drive the bus. If it did, Maryland would never have been added to the Big 10.

Of course is this were 100% true, then Georgetown and Navy would have been considered before Maryland right?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Of course is this were 100% true, then Georgetown and Navy would have been considered before Maryland right?

I don't know what you are even arguing. I generally don't with you.

Either you think Duke will be happy in a league with UCF, Temple, USF and Memphis, or you don't. I don't. You do. It's that simple.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Doesn't matter anyway, because I will up it to 75% that Swofford gets ESPN to "show him the money".

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't know what you are even arguing. I generally don't with you.

Either you think Duke will be happy in a league with UCF, Temple, USF and Memphis, or you don't. I don't. You do. It's that simple.

One day you'll talk to a professional and understand that you need help.

You said your imaginary academic elite league would be "formidable from a marketing standpoint".

I laughed at the suggestion because we already have an academic elite league that nobody cares about. I simply asked you to explain why it would be formidable.

You then said that by questioning your definition of "formidable", I must think Duke will be happy in a league with UCF, Temple, USF and Memphis.

You're ducking crazy, it's that simple.

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't know what you are even arguing. I generally don't with you.

Either you think Duke will be happy in a league with UCF, Temple, USF and Memphis, or you don't. I don't. You do. It's that simple.

Why is Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, "formidable" from a marketing standpoint?

It's a simple question.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why is Duke, Wake Forest, BC, Villanova, Rice, Tulane, Navy, Army and Georgetown, "formidable" from a marketing standpoint?

It's a simple question.

Against my better judgment....

Because those are national universities that are in big cities for the most part and every parent in the world would love their kid to go to. Those are national universities. Only an idiot would debate that fact.

So then about the league. IF, and it is a big IF, the ACC collapses, a few top academic programs will need to decide which direction they want to go. Affiliate with whatever is left east of the Mississippi, including city colleges that have open admission, or develop a brand. Duke and the rest may have to make a choice, and I think the could go in a direction of similar caliber institutions. I think that would not be a terrible idea, and I think an NBC or even ESPN would pay decently for that league.

 

[BlueMAB]

Against my better judgment....

Because those are national universities that are in big cities for the most part and every parent in the world would love their kid to go to. Those are national universities. Only an idiot would debate that fact.

So then about the league. IF, and it is a big IF, the ACC collapses, a few top academic programs will need to decide which direction they want to go. Affiliate with whatever is left east of the Mississippi, including city colleges that have open admission, or develop a brand. Duke and the rest may have to make a choice, and I think the could go in a direction of similar caliber institutions. I think that would not be a terrible idea, and I think an NBC or even ESPN would pay decently for that league.

Everyone would love for their kid to go to Yale, Brown, Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Penn or Princeton. They are national universities in or near cities for the most part.

Only an idiot would debate that fact. Why isn't ESPN or NBC interested in their product?

You state the obvious, and then conclude that you think NBC or ESPN would pay decently for them. But you still haven't said why. Academics have nothing to do content and markets. You're using their location as a positive while ignoring the fact that most of that league would be 2nd (at best) and typically third rate programming compared to the alternatives.

Why?
1) Most of them are already largely considered second rate. Only 3 of the 10 are BCS programs. They aren't in the most valuable conferences now.

2) You said this would happen because schools would start to legally pay for play. Scholarships help to try and level the playing field. If schools are allowed to bid on players in an open market, and these schools refuse to do that, then the athletes they put on the field will be to the BCS conferences what the Ivy League is to the FCS conferences.

You're creating a scenario where they refuse to compete for top athletes and then argue they're going to get "formidable" money? Did that work for the Ivy League?

 

[upstater]

Isn't waylon?

I didn't think so. I think some assume several really good football schools don't rely on what the SEC is selling. I'm not sure about Ohio State, but I think in most of the Big10, people just like coming to games on Saturdays.

 

[upstater]

You think Duke, Wake, BCU, Pitt, and Syracuse will add UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, Temple, Memphis and UCF?

Do you think that scenario is realistic?

I actually do.

Not all of those you list, not the last three.

But if you play out the game of 64, you end up with Duke, Wake, BCU, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, USF, Cincy, maybe Georgia Tech (if B12 takes ACC 3 + BYU). That's 9 or 10 teams. Navy? Villanova?