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ACC 2024-25 Season

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Also, if UVA has failed with two, going on three, coaches that have zero ties to the program, it's not wise to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
 
Just saw the Pitt/GT score. YIKES!!!! Pitt is just awful.
 
Why, though? What's the sense in throwing money at a problem that will still be a problem? Mox's coaching is a problem (teams oftentimes look unprepared, undisciplined, and unmotivated). Will $776,000 a year for NIL (which will, presumably, be spread out among the entire team) change that? I don't think so. UVA may be able to overpay for third-rate talent for that price tag, but that may get the program back to the NCAA Tournament. It won't guarantee anything beyond that unless there is a change in leadership.

We just saw what happened when Miami football tried to buy its way into the College Football Playoffs after a disappointing season. Losses to Georgia Tech and Syracuse (both inferior programs to Miami) ultimately kept them out of the playoffs. Why did that happen? Coaching. Mario Cristobal is not a good coach. So even if you throw money at a problem (on-the-field production), that doesn't truly address the root cause (coaching) of said problem.

I've heard for years (from UVA alums) that UVA has so much to offer in terms of academic reputation and other resources (facilities, support from administration, etc.). I've heard UVA fans claim that their team should be a Top 25 program minimum every year. Recruits should be lining up for the opportunity to attend. But now it's, "let's give Mox time and resources"--even though that runs counter to everything that UVA fans have been claiming since Debbie was forced out 15 years ago. It sounds to me like fans have bought into what Mox is selling and desperately want things to work out for her despite what's in the tea leaves.
When I see team after team failing at a school, I think change needs to start with administration. How do you know the problem is Mox? Maybe she has only been able to get undisciplined recruits bc the money and reputation for sports just aren't there? Or school policies/traditions prevent her from running things the way they need to be?.Sometimes money does fix things. If Duke makes it to the final four in the next 4 yrs, it will very much be money that puts them over the hump. Money allows you to get the pieces you need vs just finding good parts to work with.

I learned a long time ago when I got views behind the curtain of a program that unless one has knowledge about the ins and outs of a program, it is completely foolish to think that you know what the true problems may be. It is really unbelievable what goes down that the public has no idea about. So with that in mind, I think giving coach one more year is very much the right move.

If you know multiple UVA alums, then you know the tendencies to bathe in delusions of grandeur that exist in that crowd. Many love the school to a fault. Half of the ACC has an equal to greater academic rep than UVA, so I don't see that as a huge draw for a recruit.

Why would money be spread evenly? Maybe that money will be, but that leaves chance to give other money to better players.
 
When I see team after team failing at a school, I think change needs to start with administration. How do you know the problem is Mox? Maybe she has only been able to get undisciplined recruits bc the money and reputation for sports just aren't there? Or school policies/traditions prevent her from running things the way they need to be?.Sometimes money does fix things.
Teams that lack resources can still show signs of competence. I remember watching a UVA vs. Louisville game 5-6 years ago and came away thinking that there's no way that Tina Thompson should be a head coach anywhere, let alone the head coach for a Power 4/5 flagship university. The final score wasn't terrible, but you could tell by watching the actions of the players that they weren't well coached. They made mistakes that high school players typically don't make.

I've watched UVA play numerous times during the Mox era and, with the exception of last season's FSU game, I've not been impressed. Her teams are notorious for sloppy, low basketball IQ play. They rely heavily on a big (Taylor the previous two years and Lattimore this season) and will go to great lengths to play through her--even to their detriment. They've also tried the up-tempo thing--to no avail (too sloppy and unskilled for that). Their passes sail all over the court and have one thinking they're watching water polo instead. It's painful watching them play--the product is really bad.

The ACC is a league where success is heavily predicated on guard/wing play. Having multiple competent guards is essential, not a luxury. We see that with ND this year, NC State (especially last year), Louisville in the past, Virginia Tech during the Kitley years, and Duke (especially this year). As for UVA, they have one good guard and one decent guard--that's it. But during Mox's time at UVA, they've had guards who either were decent to good before they stepped foot on Grounds or were decent to good once they departed. That's why it's hard for me to blame her shortcomings on school policies (Notre Dame and Duke are able to recruit impact guards/wings despite having academic reputations that exceed UVA's) or traditions (traditionally, UVA had good to great guard play during the Debbie Ryan years). Mox isn't getting what she needs to be successful because she doesn't know what she's doing--both on the court and off of it. I don't think money can fix that, as all you're going to get is more skilled players who are still poorly coached and will come up short (again, see Mario Cristobal of Miami football 2024).
 
I was at the game and would agree that even though there was a talent disparity, ND ran efficient set plays to beat the Hoos zone, while the Hoos didn't play much of a team oriented offense at all. Consequently, ND had 32 assists to VA's 8.
I was surprised by VA's gameplan with Lattimore. The commentators kept raving about her 6'4 frame and 6'9 wingspan. But she sat at the top of zone all night. Meanwhile they gave up so many 3's and got destroyed on the boards.
 
I learned a long time ago when I got views behind the curtain of a program that unless one has knowledge about the ins and outs of a program, it is completely foolish to think that you know what the true problems may be. It is really unbelievable what goes down that the public has no idea about. So with that in mind, I think giving coach one more year is very much the right move.
As someone who's had connections within a prominent athletic department before, I've been privy to how things operate behind the scenes. UVA's athletic department doesn't appear to be running smoothly, as the AD has botched hires in the more prominent sports (football, for example). Tony Bennett's resignation was not really on her, so I won't give her grief about it. However, she badly botched one women's basketball hire and looks to have hired another dud on the level of Joanne Boyle.

That said, I do believe that Mox will get at least another year to bring the program back to competence (NCAA tournament) and an additional year if she can show the donors (especially Alexis) that the team can compete for championships against ND and Duke (and whomever else joins that tier in the years to come). If the team isn't either in the ACC Tournament finals or has a Top 4 ACC finish by Year 5, she should be gone.

If you know multiple UVA alums, then you know the tendencies to bathe in delusions of grandeur that exist in that crowd. Many love the school to a fault. Half of the ACC has an equal to greater academic rep than UVA, so I don't see that as a huge draw for a recruit.
Yes, I'm well aware of the pretentious nature of many (but not all) UVA alums. 2019 was a painful time for me (as someone who does not root for their men's basketball team). I'm not here to denigrate UVA's academic reputation because, outside of Duke, Stanford, ND, and Cal, it either holds its own against or exceeds that of the other ACC institutions. But I am well aware that the UVA diehards see their school as Diet Harvard. And even though it's not, the academic reputation is still lofty enough to be a draw for recruits.

Why would money be spread evenly? Maybe that money will be, but that leaves chance to give other money to better players.
Because Alexis insinuated that the money would be "transformative" and he announced it in front of all the young women. Hard for that to be the case if one player gets $500K while the others get $10K. Also, he's Serena's husband--so I'd like to continue to think highly of him.
 
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I was surprised by VA's gameplan with Lattimore. The commentators kept raving about her 6'4 frame and 6'9 wingspan. But she sat at the top of zone all night. Meanwhile they gave up so many 3's and got destroyed on the boards.
Coaching (or lack thereof).
 
Teams that lack resources can still show signs of competence. I remember watching a UVA vs. Louisville game 5-6 years ago and came away thinking that there's no way that Tina Thompson should be a head coach anywhere, let alone the head coach for a Power 4/5 flagship university. The final score wasn't terrible, but you could tell by watching the actions of the players that they weren't well coached. They made mistakes that high school players typically don't make.

I've watched UVA play numerous times during the Mox era and, with the exception of last season's FSU game, I've not been impressed. Her teams are notorious for sloppy, low basketball IQ play. They rely heavily on a big (Taylor the previous two years and Lattimore this season) and will go to great lengths to play through her--even to their detriment. They've also tried the up-tempo thing--to no avail (too sloppy and unskilled for that). Their passes sail all over the court and have one thinking they're watching water polo instead. It's painful watching them play--the product is really bad.

The ACC is a league where success is heavily predicated on guard/wing play. Having multiple competent guards is essential, not a luxury. We see that with ND this year, NC State (especially last year), Louisville in the past, Virginia Tech during the Kitley years, and Duke (especially this year). As for UVA, they have one good guard and one decent guard--that's it. But during Mox's time at UVA, they've had guards who either were decent to good before they stepped foot on Grounds or were decent to good once they departed. That's why it's hard for me to blame her shortcomings on school policies (Notre Dame and Duke are able to recruit impact guards/wings despite having academic reputations that exceed UVA's) or traditions (traditionally, UVA had good to great guard play during the Debbie Ryan years). Mox isn't getting what she needs to be successful because she doesn't know what she's doing--both on the court and off of it. I don't think money can fix that, as all you're going to get is more skilled players who are still poorly coached and will come up short (again, see Mario Cristobal of Miami football 2024).
I'm not talking about academic policies. UVA will take almost anyone academically. I can tell by the current roster and it was like that when I went there.
Every school handles fundraising differently; coaches are given rules to follow, programs hoard their donors, etc. Different schools give coaches longer or shorter leashes on a variety of topics from dorm situations to internship perks, etc. As recent as two years ago Virginia's transfer rules were more strict than Duke's. They might still be, but I haven't talked to anyone about it lately. We can agree to disagree. ND has plenty of NIL now and a history of success. Mox is not Lawson and UVA is not Duke by reputation. I think it is unreasonable to expect her to be like either of those teams at this point.
 
If Duke makes it to the final four in the next 4 yrs, it will very much be money that puts them over the hump.
I agree with that 100%, as I'm not someone who believes that Coach Kara is the sun, the moon, and the stars (she's got her faults, which can rear their ugly heads at the most inopportune times). That said, she's shown herself to be a pretty good coach without those immense financial gifts (something that Mox hasn't done). She's not Marissa Young good, but she's good. She wasn't my first (or second, or third) choice, but she's done reasonably well so far--all things considered (navigating COVID, having to consider Duke's academic reputation during recruiting battles, washing away the stench of the previous coach, etc.). If the NIL money that Duke is set to receive over the next year takes the program back to true national prominence, then it doesn't matter to me that Kara isn't Dawn, Kim, or Geno.
 
I'm not talking about academic policies. UVA will take almost anyone academically. I can tell by the current roster and it was like that when I went there.
Every school handles fundraising differently; coaches are given rules to follow, programs hoard their donors, etc. Different schools give coaches longer or shorter leashes on a variety of topics from dorm situations to internship perks, etc. As recent as two years ago Virginia's transfer rules were more strict than Duke's. They might still be, but I haven't talked to anyone about it lately. We can agree to disagree. ND has plenty of NIL now and a history of success. Mox is not Lawson and UVA is not Duke by reputation. I think it is unreasonable to expect her to be like either of those teams at this point.
I agree with the bolded part, but it's not unreasonable to expect the team to look competent now. They hardly ever do, which is a major concern for a coach in her third season of ACC basketball. Neither she nor her assistants knew the ACC landscape two seasons ago, so them getting blasted during conference play didn't surprise anyone. But for them to be 0-2 at this point with a double-digit home loss to an average BC team and a 41-point loss to ND (not even their worst loss of the season) is concerning. It suggests that there's no progression. They should be in the, "we're not going to beat the teams at the top, but we'll make things difficult for them" phase. Instead, they aren't even beating the teams they should beat while getting annihilated by those teams at the top.

If the plan works and Alexis' gift makes a difference in recruiting, then competition with Duke and ND for conference titles will be expected by Mox's fifth year. That's not unreasonable IF Mox's coaching is up to ACC standard (I don't think it is).
 
I was surprised by VA's gameplan with Lattimore. The commentators kept raving about her 6'4 frame and 6'9 wingspan. But she sat at the top of zone all night. Meanwhile they gave up so many 3's and got destroyed on the boards.
Lattimore hasn't been a back to the basket/in the paint player going back to her highschool days. It's not her thing.
 
Coaching (or lack thereof).
Lattimore was a player who I thought looks like she could develop into a star. But the ball movement was so poor that she didn't get enough inside looks where she could score.
 
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State had a battle with Clemson last night in Raleigh. Zam Jones is still out with an injured hand and Mallory Collier didn’t start and played only 9 minutes dealing with sickness.

The tigers were scorching hot from 3. They hit 15 -31 for the game and were 9-17 at the half. In the first half State struggled defending ball screens, choosing to leave the screener and stop penetration which led to multiple drive and kick 3s and Clemson wasn’t missing.

Azaiah James tweaked an ankle in the 3rd and left the game for maybe 8-10 minutes but returned.

Madison Hayes had her best game of the year going 19 and 9 for State. Zoe Brooks, James and Saniya Rivers all were in double figures as well.

I was impressed with Clemson and their new coach. They were disciplined on offense and ran some good stuff I thought. I’m interested to see how he does in the coming years, they had good energy and looked well organized.

State needs Zam back quickly - they miss her offensive spark off the bench and become very thin quick!
 
I agree with that 100%, as I'm not someone who believes that Coach Kara is the sun, the moon, and the stars (she's got her faults, which can rear their ugly heads at the most inopportune times). That said, she's shown herself to be a pretty good coach without those immense financial gifts (something that Mox hasn't done). She's not Marissa Young good, but she's good. She wasn't my first (or second, or third) choice, but she's done reasonably well so far--all things considered (navigating COVID, having to consider Duke's academic reputation during recruiting battles, washing away the stench of the previous coach, etc.). If the NIL money that Duke is set to receive over the next year takes the program back to true national prominence, then it doesn't matter to me that Kara isn't Dawn, Kim, or Geno.
Just to be clear, I am not knocking Lawson at all. She is what has gotten them to where they are now, but it is nearly impossible to get a championship without a play maker and playmakers require robust NIL.
 
Just to be clear, I am not knocking Lawson at all. She is what has gotten them to where they are now, but it is nearly impossible to get a championship without a play maker and playmakers require robust NIL.
Oh I know you weren't--and neither was I. And yes, it's going to be hard for Duke to win conference titles and compete for national titles without a true All-ACC caliber talent at PG. Fortunately, I think that Kara will have a few options to seek out/work with next year.
 
Just got home from BC vs Duke. Honestly left with about 6 minutes to go in the 4th. Toby Fournier actually had just gotten injured, she hit an and one but got hit and landed hard and awkwardly. The BC player was ejected. I was at the other side of the court so I couldn't see if it was malicious. The good news is Fournier was down for a bit but got up and walked to the back lightly assisted by trainers. I think she is fine but I'm far from a doctor.

Anyways my thoughts on the game overall as I really went to see how good Duke was.

I was impressed with their wings. Richardson and Jackson both played well. I don't even think their numbers were crazy they just played in control and took the right shots.

Mair had a small but enthusiastic contingent of fans in the stands. She was as aggressive as i've seen her all year. I think she was trying to put on a show. She played decently.

My concerns were that they really struggled with BCs full court press. Even if they didn't turn the ball over they took rush shots. Outside of Mair their guards didn't play well.

Jordyn woods who I really like, didn't play her best game. She actually got chewed out by Coach Lawson as she committed 2 or 3 straight fouls in the second half. Lawson also got frustrated with how they were handling the press but they don't have that many ball handlers.

I also went to the game to see Fournier. I'm no scout except here on the Boneyard, but everything I see on tv, I saw today. Idk why I'm surprised by this. But she was really good and really raw at the same time. And raw has a negative connotation, I more so mean unorthodox. Like she had a couple baskets where it just looked like she threw the ball in,not like a clean shot. She also was battling down low with a super senior at times which was fun to watch. Sometimes she wasn't in the right position on defense. She is also looking to score 80 percent of the time she touches the ball which I don't think is a bad thing. I also think she's closer to 6'2 than she is to 6'4.

BC... just not quite there from a talent perspective. I think kids are still on holiday so a relatively light crowd. I just remember 2 years ago going to a game and seeing Cameron Swartz playing like Diana Taurasi and Taylor Soule playing like Ajsha Jones and thought id luck out and see a diamond in the rough. Definitely wasn't the case.
 
I can't imagine what kind of team would give up 105 points to Florida State. Oh wait--yes I can! A horrible one.
 
I can't imagine what kind of team would give up 105 points to Florida State. Oh wait--yes I can! A horrible one.
Well so far there are six teams that have given up more than 100 to FSU so the number is growing. Of course having women's basketballs leading scorer facilitates high scores. I wonder what would happen if it was your team?

Personally I'd give a team that just had their head coach and staff and several key players bought away by Kentucky a little slack to get their program back up and running but I guess you demand immediate greatness. (I'm not a Virginia Tech supporter but I've followed them enough to recognize unjust criticism of a program trying to rebuild.)
 
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Clemson knocked off Cal - I’m not shocked after watching them in Raleigh. Good win for the Tigers, maybe they can build off of that and get some momentum going.

Stanford losing to SMU? Oof.

FSU has never had issues scoring it, they average over 95 points per game and Latson averages 28 herself! Their question is can they stop anyone else from scoring?
 
FSU has never had issues scoring it, they average over 95 points per game and Latson averages 28 herself! Their question is can they stop anyone else from scoring?
They can't, which is why teams (especially those that are undermanned--for whatever reason) should not be playing to their strengths (hence my original post on the matter). Slow them down and make them work the ball around. Shorten the game. You don't have to have All-ACC talent at all positions to accomplish this (FSU certainly doesn't have that)--it's Coaching 101. Trying to play fast/run with them plays right into their hands.
 
NC State looked like a Top 25 team today against Boston College. 6 Wolfpack Women scored in double figures, led by Saniya Rivers 23 points and 11 assists.

Road trip to California coming up this next week: we'll play Cal on Thursday and Stanford in storied Maples Pavilion on Sunday.
 
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NC State looked like a Top 25 team today against Boston College. 6 Wolfpack Women scored in double figures, led by Saniya Rivers 23 points and 11 assists.

Road trip to California coming up this next week: we'll play Cal on Thursday and Stanford in storied Maples Pavilion on Sunday.
The Pack looked great today. Saniya Rivers was dominant, she came out the gate and set the tone with scoring, pushing tempo, making some elite passes, defense and rebounding. She was everywhere.

BC looked pathetic. No real plan on offense, just jacking up shots - and a lot of 3s despite not hitting many. I was waiting for Waggoner to go off on her former team today, but that never materialized. BC looks like a bottom third of the league squad pretty easily.

January’s schedule lines up well for State - a challenging west coast week ahead but then Pitt and UVa at home, @syracuse, VT at home and @wake. February though is a challenge! Duke, @FSU, @UNC, @GT and ND at home all that month.
 
Clemson gets another nice win knocking of Stanford. Notre Dame handled the Heels with relative ease as expected. Cal went on the road and beat SMU. FSU continues to score at a high level with a win over the Cuse. Yall mentioned VTs win over Miami, Duke spanks Pitt and Louisville needed OT to know off those pesky Deacs in Winston Salem.

The tiers of the conference are beginning to take shape with ND front and center as the best team. Duke and GT maybe in that second grouping alone although State and Cal aren’t too far off pace there IMO. After that it’s more muddled. FSU, Clemson, Louisville are out to good starts in league play while UNC is 1-2, but I’d say UNC has the pieces to be better than a couple of those squads.

I think there was some hope for Miami, Stanford and UVa earlier - but they all are in danger of really dropping out of the mix if they can’t get it going soon.

Pitt Wake BC Cuse battling it out for relegation.
 
I can't see Miami making the NCAA Tournament unless (1) they beat at least three of the following: ND, Duke, GT, Cal, or NC State or (2) they win the ACC Tournament. Their NET rating is not looking too good right now. They blew their opportunity to pick up Tier 1-type wins against UNC and Vanderbilt at home. I'm having a hard time figuring out who they'd beat (at Tier 1 quality) on the road. If they can't recover for the NCAAs, then maybe they'll accept a WBIT bid this time.

Stanford and UVA are in danger of not making the postseason altogether.
 
NC State looked like a Top 25 team today against Boston College. 6 Wolfpack Women scored in double figures, led by Saniya Rivers 23 points and 11 assists.

Road trip to California coming up this next week: we'll play Cal on Thursday and Stanford in storied Maples Pavilion on Sunday.
How hard is it to look top 25 against BC? Let me know when State beats a real contender.
 
Interesting game between the Tar Heels and the Duck Blue Devils this week. Wonder if Duke will play well or fold again.
 
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