AAF

[huskymedic]

They owe UCF a million for the stadium lease they have never made a payment on.

Just saw that... UCF loses over $1 million in stadium agreement with Apollos, AAF

 

[Alum86]

Just saw that... UCF loses over $1 million in stadium agreement with Apollos, AAF

Yep, never got a bill. We’re good.
That is sad and funny at the same time. es

 

[Alum86]

If the Underground ever hit the Rent, the state best make them pay up front for the year.

 

[superjohn]

They owe UCF a million for the stadium lease they have never made a payment on.

And wow Charlie - go drown in a toilet.

Sounds like Charlie started the league by first screwing over his business partner and then had no business plan for the league. This subprime guy Tom Dundon saw Charlie as a mark rescued the league and then folded it taking a $70 mil. loss so that he could own the tech.

Still trying to figure out how Vince fits into all of this.

 

[whaler11]

Sounds like Charlie started the league by first screwing over his business partner and then had no business plan for the league. This subprime guy Tom Dundon saw Charlie as a mark rescued the league and then folded it taking a $70 mil. loss so that he could own the tech.

Still trying to figure out how Vince fits into all of this.

No big deal just a lot of people losing their jobs!

 

[Adios]

Charlie wanted to restart the XFL.

He's shown how weak he is.

 

[superjohn]

No big deal just a lot of people losing their jobs!

It's awful and all so predictable. Amazing, people keep giving him opportunities to lose their money. That tweet from him really captures what he's all about.

 

[Husky25]

It really sounds to me that they started the league with a great idea that had a ton of potential to succeed. They were just missing a key part, money to pay all the players....kind of an important part.

Then a savior comes in but asks for something he basically knows won't happen. The AAF isn't at fault on that part. That's the dick owner from Carolina who pulled that one. However, the AAF plays a role because had they actually had the money aspect planned out, they wouldn't have needed this guy to start with.

Too bad all around. Seemed like a legit league for college players to get a second chance to show their talents for NFL teams. I'd watch this over that crap the XFL will be any day

It was actually kind of doomed from the get go. I was getting into the product, personally, but it seemed very fly by night. I saw many similarities between the Alliance and the first iteration of the XFL, as detailed by the 30 for 30 episode.

1) There was not enough time between the birth announcement and the start of operations. Not so much like the XFL still outlining rules on the flight to Opening Night, but there was not enough practice time and players had no familiarity with each other. Product suffers.

2) The market was completely misread. Most fans are footballed-out by the end of the Super Bowl and those whose NFL team didn't make the playoffs check out by New Years, if not earlier.

3) The players were no names, the teams were in tertiary markets, and the product is quite obviously not the best in the world. Colleges can fill their stadiums in the middle of nowhere because they have a built in following (alumni), don't have monster player payrolls, and their brands are decades in the making. Most own their stadiums too. Not so for upstart pro leagues.

2) and 3) were the biggest issues, IMO, because it led to lack of attendance (probably drastically overestimated to begin with.), which is what most leagues use to pay their players and pay rents (also probably way too high.).

I'm not sure how the XFL will address these issues any better.

 

[Adios]

It's going to require a huge sacrifice of capital. It's also proven fans would welcome more pro football other than the NFL. The AAF actually might have had a chance but would take a while to break even. Low costs are a must, sadly. Even my AAF hoodie is low budget.

 

[Husky25]

...It's also proven fans would welcome more pro football other than the NFL...

Provided for no additional cost. Personally speaking, the AAF was fine entertainment from my couch in HD on the NFL network, TBS or NBC, but I was not going to put down any money for Bleacher Report. Judging from fannies in the stands, it looked like fans' appetite for less-than-NFL caliber product only went so far.

In the early 80's, NFL salaries where as such that allowed the USFL to compete for high level talent coming out of college. The demise of the USFL did not come about because of the product on the field. Simply, there is no way in this era that a Hershel Walker type player eschews the NFL for an upstart.

 

[whaler11]

It’s just really expensive to run football teams. If you don’t have a big enough TV contract you can’t cover your expenses.

 

[Exit 4]

It’s just really expensive to run football teams. If you don’t have a big enough TV contract you can’t cover your expenses.

Yeah and seriously, in this society how do you provide workmans comp/health insurance? Sure - the guys can sign all kinds of waivers, but wont necessarily keep you out of court and even if it does, insurers will be reluctant to wade in this space.

The NFL can get around this because it is sloshing around in big money....needless to say....and because it can pay to have good people managing this risk.

 

[superjohn]

It’s just really expensive to run football teams. If you don’t have a big enough TV contract you can’t cover your expenses.

It can't be done, I'll never understand why all these new leagues are starting while the game of football is starting to wane. Still, if you're saying you have the cash to last 5 years down the road you should probably be able to make payroll after the first week. This was a total con job.

 

[ZooCougar]

I'm just shouting at the clouds, but here goes..

Spring football is such a bad idea. Even the Arena League is more or less on life support.

Renting out giant stadiums that will never be filled is another horrendous flaw in this business model.

Here is what I would do if I had a a few hundred million to set on fire.

-Don't play Spring Football. Have a shortish preseason camp in late August. Spring Football is dumb. We have plenty of appetite for Fall Football. We have four levels of NCAA Football, a few levels of NAIA, Junior Colleges, High School and the NFL!! You're telling be there isn't a niche out there in the Fall for another level? I don't buy it.

-The cost of professional football is the biggest barrier for success. Have a very small league with a very short season. 7 Teams, 6 regular season games. 1 post season game. Keep costs down. Less weeks of games and practice, less paychecks and smaller rosters. Shorter season means that you don't need as much depth. Get one successful season on the books as a proof of principle.

-Play in pro sports starved places in small stadiums; smaller than MLS Stadiums even. The kinds of places that might pay you to play there or even share costs. Think Des Moines, Omaha, Springfield, even Dillon Stadium in Hartford. Maybe not those exact places, but places like that where there might be some pent up demand and can generate a following. The problem here is that my TV markets would be crap, but it's not like it would make money on TV for a few years anyways so at least put your teams where the communities might actually get behind your product.

-I really don't think the NFL needs a D League when they have college football. But there is an outside chance that they might embrace the idea if you can provide a fringe players a place to stay game fit through mid season or so and maybe they can sign them later on.

I still think another pro league is a fool's errand. But you are going to fail if you are on the hook for exorbitant rent in giant stadiums that will never be filled and if you are playing in the spring. ONLY if you have something like the USFL would that MIGHT work, but the NFL wasn't the monster it was now and I don't even think an enterprise like the USFL would last three seasons in this day and age.

 

[ZooCougar]

It’s just really expensive to run football teams. If you don’t have a big enough TV contract you can’t cover your expenses.

I think the biggest flaw has been the expenses. I still don’t get why these leagues are spending money renting big stadiums. Doesn’t it cost 100k just open the Rent or something outrageous like that?

 

[Adios]

People have been trying to develop centralized leagues now for startups, rather than start out with franchises since MLS. That puts more cost burden on the few investors.

The NFL started out in small stadiums. Smaller stadiums would be very wise to use as a start. But it's hard to find one these days that'll suit pro football. Arlington might have the first "minor league football" stadium in the works right now. Something the size of the Rent can work, too, though it mighy be a little too large.

It IS a fool's errand. There's been much more failure in attempting to set up pro circuits than success. But the ones that have been successful, have become ATMs for owners after MANY years (decades) of VERY hard work.

 

[ZooCougar]

People have been trying to develop centralized leagues now for startups, rather than start out with franchises since MLS. That puts more cost burden on the few investors.

The NFL started out in small stadiums. Smaller stadiums would be very wise to use as a start. But it's hard to find one these days that'll suit pro football. Arlington might have the first "minor league football" stadium in the works right now. Something the size of the Rent can work, too, though it mighy be a little too large.

It IS a fool's errand. There's been much more failure in attempting to set up pro circuits than success. But the ones that have been successful, have become ATMs for owners after MANY years (decades) of VERY hard work.

Think smaller. Think 5-25k. They could use high school or lower division stadiums.

The D2 stadium where the Chiefs hold preseason would be perfect for minor league football for example.

Single Entity is pretty standard for startups. It prevents competition and contains cost.

MLS should have tossed Single Entity to the side by now though.

 

[whaler11]

The only way it’s ever going to happen is a huge media outlet willing to lose 9 figures for years. Individuals aren’t going to burn that kind of cash when they look down and see 3k in the building.

Investors will reward Amazon for losing money because it is eliminating competition and there is a path to profitability. There is no path to eliminating competitors in professional football so there is no reason for anyone to continue to lose money once it’s obvious there is no path to break even.

 

[ZooCougar]

The only way it’s ever going to happen is a huge media outlet willing to lose 9 figures for years. Individuals aren’t going to burn that kind of cash when they look down and see 3k in the building.

Investors will reward Amazon for losing money because it is eliminating competition and there is a path to profitability. There is no path to eliminating competitors in professional football so there is no reason for anyone to continue to lose money once it’s obvious there is no path to break even.

Amazon just reinvests money it makes on fulfillment in more capacity in order to reach the desired future state, which is 1 hour delivery. I live this every day.

Phil Anschutz set something like a half a Billion on Fire bankrolling MLS because he was passionate about establishing a pro league in the US.

Nobody is going to get passionate about wasting a billion on minor league pro football.

For that reason I think the only way to do it is to get scrappy but in the end it’s kind of a lost cause.

 

[Adios]

The WLAF had franchisees. The Orlando Thunder were owned by some Indian dude.

If the powers that be decide they want more football leagues, then it shall be. Twitter survived. And very clever in serving it's purpose. RIP chat rooms.

 

[Husky25]

The WLAF had franchisees. The Orlando Thunder were owned by some Indian dude.

If the powers that be decide they want more football leagues, then it shall be. Twitter survived. And very clever in serving it's purpose. RIP chat rooms.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Hahahahahahaha this reads like a tweet from some loser 20 year old

 

[huskymedic]

Did Tom Dundon buy into AAF just for gambling app?

Their app did some cool stuff - but.... one would venture it cost them less than $70 mill to develop.

Yeah - I have no clue on development valuation - be worth watching what he does with it all said and done (MGM seemed smitten with it).

No wonder MGM was smitten with the gaming app... they now own it - not Dundon.

Sources: Tom Dundon Doesn’t Own AAF’s Gambling-Forward Tech Arm

>>When MGM invested money into the AAF’s tech business last June, it included a provision that would give MGM the rights to own the tech if the AAF went out of business.

Sources confirmed the deal after The Action Network discovered evidence of a financing lien filed with the Delaware Secretary of State.

The lien, filed in October, gave MGM rights to the technology’s intellectual property, including trademarks, copyrights, patents, software and firmware.<<

 

[Waquoit]

Now Vince has the blueprint to play competent football.

How do you figure? The only reason anyone knows the XFL is He Hate Me.

 

[Adios]

How do you figure? The only reason anyone knows the XFL is He Hate Me.

One of the Ebersols was saying the XFL's quality of play sucked and they'll get it right this time. Would have helped to have Manziel finish the season. No idea why Hackenberg was on any roster. He was exposed the moment he set foot on the field at Penn State.