A Dovian Take on KO

[upstater]

"We all know it?" What are you a middle schooler? He played Andre Drummond and Oriaki and his father threw a temper tantrum b/c their pipe dreams of a long NBA career were coming to an end. Hardly throwing in the towel.

Sigh. Go back and read what I wrote. I said "with some players." I didn't say Calhoun gave up on life. Or on basketball. Or on the team. I said he gave up on some players. He did give up on Oriakhi. I don't blame him for doing it. There were times when Oriakhi was mouthing off at him on the bench and where you'd think in the past Calhoun would lay into him, he just turned around and let it go, which is a much worse sign--if you ask me--then if he were going back at the kid.

 

[Sonova]

KO took players who were sophs and frosh under Calhoun, players who experienced a really tough frustrating season with a couple of kids in open rebellion against Calhoun on the bench, and on social media, and he made helped these players improve. Almost all of them did. Giffey, Daniels, Napier, Boatright. These were not the same players they were under Calhoun. And, oh by the way, this recruiting class under Calhoun, which was universally derided as being horrifically awful in 2011 and 2012, ended up winning a national championship, with a run through top coaches like Donovan, Izzo, Jay Wright, Calipari, Hoiberg.

Who were the couple of kids you are referring to (I'll give you Oriaki)? You make it sound like a mutiny. It wasn't. It was a difficult balance of veterans who wanted the limelight and talented freshman and sophomores who didn't know how to lead. And coming off a championship can create a different (sometimes individual) type of motivation. But if you're suggesting that Kevin Ollie fixed some dysfunctional situation, you're just wrong. No really. You don't know what you're talking about. And just because you've filed in your scrapbook that some blowhard fan boys on the Boneyard "universally derided" a couple of classes that featured Daniels (ranked #19), Boatwright (#34), Drummond (top 3) and Shabazz, means what again? That Kevin Ollie is a terrific coach or developer of talent? Or better than Jim Calhoun because they weren't universally derided on Ollie's watch? Got it.

 

[Sonova]

Sigh. Go back and read what I wrote. I said "with some players." I didn't say Calhoun gave up on life. Or on basketball. Or on the team. I said he gave up on some players. He did give up on Oriakhi. I don't blame him for doing it. There were times when Oriakhi was mouthing off at him on the bench and where you'd think in the past Calhoun would lay into him, he just turned around and let it go, which is a much worse sign--if you ask me--then if he were going back at the kid.

I did read your post again. You mentioned some/more than one kid. Who were the other players? And it reads like Calhoun quit on them ("wasn't the master motivator") - which I completely disagree with. Oriaki's minutes diminished because he stunk his junior year. He was a shell of the player that he was during the 2011 season (especially in the post season) and yet he still averaged 21 mins/game. Oh, and he was the team captain - which ain't voted on by the players. If that's throwing in the towel, we should all be so lucky.[/QUOTE]

 

[Doctor Hoop]

It's like you don't see the danger signs. Read Fishy's posts. I am very afraid that this banging on the drum for Ollie's head will start resulting in one thing: recruiting misses from kids scared to go to a place with a coach on a hot seat. The next guy--please you name him, Northeastern's coach?--is going to have a much tougher time recruiting in the AAC.

I like Ollie, and want him to succeed, but in response ...

I think I recall another Northeastern coach who came to UConn and did okay.

 

[upstater]

I like Ollie, and want him to succeed, but in response ...

I think I recall another Northeastern coach who came to UConn and did okay.

Came to the Big East. There's a difference.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Came to the Big East. There's a difference.

As if we don't have a storied history and four national championships ...

You're right, the AAC isn't the OBE. But when Calhoun came he sold the conference because he couldn't sell the tradition. Ollie doesn't have that limitation.

 

[Mr. French]

This board is full of result merchants.

Two years ago everyone was saying Ollie is a great player developer and game coach but a poor recruiter because he had improved Shabazz, Boat, Deandre, Niels, etc and brought in a national championship, yet recruiting was going poorly with several years in a row of weak classes.

Now we've had two years in a row of excellent recruiting classes but poor results on the court, and people are saying Ollie is a great recruiter but a poor coach.

A sensible person would conclude:
- Ollie proved he is an excellent coach in his first two years.
- Ollie proved he is an excellent recruiter in the last two years.
- The losing this year doesn't prove he has lost his ability to coach, it proves that injuries, a short bench, and multiple years of poor recruiting leaving you with freshman talent and upperclass weakness is a recipe for a failed season.

Only once Ollie has had 4 years of solid recruiting classes in a row, and has had time to coach up his talented classes for 4 years, can we judge his coaching ability. That's still 2-3 years away.

I for one have no doubt he'll be regarded as one of the NCAA's top coaches at that time. There isn't anyone I would trade for as our head coach - very happy to have KO.

Someone who can concisely and intelligently put together a solid, rational point of view.

Well done.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

No, his coaching record at UCONN and inability to win close games and beat low D1 programs is why we think KO is inept. It has nothing to do with KO except that I haven't experienced a year like this since JC's first season here. We may lose 20 games.

Connecticut is (-165 on the Under)...Over/Under @ +20 losses (20 or more) for the regular season per a "DM'ed" Vegas generated Season Loss Totals Line.

 

[upstater]

As if we don't have a storied history and four national championships ...

You're right, the AAC isn't the OBE. But when Calhoun came he sold the conference because he couldn't sell the tradition. Ollie doesn't have that limitation.

I don't think he has it either. It's why I don't want him to be fired. But we are talking about the next guy, not Ollie. The next guy will have more difficulty recruiting here than Ollie, unless they somehow make a major splash, which is hard to see how that would happen. I think someone can make the case though that schools like Pitt may be easier to recruit to now than a school like UConn.

 

[Kitaman]

Ollie's like a teenager who finally owns the car he always wanted (i.e. his players). Lets see how he maintains/services/upgrades the car and how well it runs when he reaches adulthood in 4-5 years.

Then we will know what kind of driver we have not just by the performance but the destination he takes it.

Until then our ride with him will be adventurous, fun and at times unsettling. But this fan will find a way to enjoy it, even with my 'backseat driving' on the Board and Chatroom.

 

[Dove]

As if we don't have a storied history and four national championships ...

You're right, the AAC isn't the OBE. But when Calhoun came he sold the conference because he couldn't sell the tradition. Ollie doesn't have that limitation.

Ollie can sell his youth, NBA career, UCONN history and family. UCONN still has the NBA pipeline to promote, as well.

Its not all bad.

I also think that football program would help sell, too, if it gets back to being good. It sure is embarrassing seeing hoops players and recruits at a Maine game looking way beyond bored.

 

[Waquoit]

I think the bottom line is that Ollie is still our guy but he has room for improvement.

 

[upstater]

Who were the couple of kids you are referring to (I'll give you Oriaki)? You make it sound like a mutiny. It wasn't. It was a difficult balance of veterans who wanted the limelight and talented freshman and sophomores who didn't know how to lead. And coming off a championship can create a different (sometimes individual) type of motivation. But if you're suggesting that Kevin Ollie fixed some dysfunctional situation, you're just wrong. No really. You don't know what you're talking about. And just because you've filed in your scrapbook that some blowhard fan boys on the Boneyard "universally derided" a couple of classes that featured Daniels (ranked #19), Boatwright (#34), Drummond (top 3) and Shabazz, means what again? That Kevin Ollie is a terrific coach or developer of talent? Or better than Jim Calhoun because they weren't universally derided on Ollie's watch? Got it.

You can't put together 3 classes and call them one class, freescooter. It is 1 class, the Shabazz, Giffey, Lamb, Olander, Bradley, Wolf class. And no it wasn't a few blowhard fanboys. This board existed back then. You can go look.

Daniels wasn't in this class.

And just because you hate Kevin Ollie, and always hated him even when he was winning a national chapionship, doesn't mean he didn't develop Daniels, Giffey, Napier and Boatright, he did.

By the way, Boatright is spelled without a W, and I'm sure all those blowhard UConn fans know that, because they are real.

 

[Sonova]

You can't put together 3 classes and call them one class, freescooter. It is 1 class, the Shabazz, Giffey, Lamb, Olander, Bradley, Wolf class. And no it wasn't a few blowhard fanboys. This board existed back then. You can go look.

Daniels wasn't in this class.

And just because you hate Kevin Ollie, and always hated him even when he was winning a national chapionship, doesn't mean he didn't develop Daniels, Giffey, Napier and Boatright, he did.

By the way, Boatright is spelled without a W, and I'm sure all those blowhard UConn fans know that, because they are real.

Sigh. I know they were in multiple classes. Go back and read your post again, you mentioned Daniels. And then confusingly wrote about "this class" and two years of universal derision. But fine, my point still stands. I couldn't care less what you and your Boneyard scrapbook says (or said) back in 2011 & 2012. Any class that featured Napier and Lamb was more than excellent starting in 2011 and 2012 so, I'm not going to attribute their individual success (or the 14 championship) to KO's development talent once JC left. You clearly think that Ollie is the right guy. I clearly don't. I'm a long way from hating Kevin Ollie - you have no idea - and I wish I felt differently and I hope that I'm wrong. But I find it asinine for you (who has an arrogantly-toned comment about EVERY new poster or anyone who dares to criticize Kevin Ollie) to dismiss people's legitimate fact-based (as well as subjective) concerns about the program based on what the Boneyard said 4+ years ago. So keep citing the Boneyard circa 2012. I don't care. It doesn't make you less wrong.

 

[uconnfan68]

Half his team is hurt. His best big man is a freshman. His team doesn't know a good shot from a bad shot. They think nothing about throwing it up there if Plan A doesn't work.

The last two are on him. Brimah and Facey have been clogging up the rotation for two years. If he doesn't turn it around next year, we should be looking to make changes.

Facey has earned his keep so far, and Amida is doing better things too. If we could shoot, we'd be dangerous.

 

[upstater]

Sigh. I know they were in multiple classes. Go back and read your post again, you mentioned Daniels. And then confusingly wrote about "this class" and two years of universal derision. But fine, my point still stands. I couldn't care less what you and your Boneyard scrapbook says (or said) back in 2011 & 2012. Any class that featured Napier and Lamb was more than excellent starting in 2011 and 2012 so, I'm not going to attribute their individual success (or the 14 championship) to KO's development talent once JC left. You clearly think that Ollie is the right guy. I clearly don't. I'm a long way from hating Kevin Ollie - you have no idea - and I wish I felt differently and I hope that I'm wrong. But I find it asinine for you (who has an arrogantly-toned comment about EVERY new poster or anyone who dares to criticize Kevin Ollie) to dismiss people's legitimate fact-based (as well as subjective) concerns about the program based on what the Boneyard said 4+ years ago. So keep citing the Boneyard circa 2012. I don't care. It doesn't make you less wrong.

It wasn't that hard to begin with, but I see now you're confused.

The Bazz class was the one people hated.

Daniels is a kid that developed under Ollie, freescooter.

These are two simple separate statements that should be very hard for a person with a brain to confuse.

 

[Sonova]

It wasn't that hard to begin with, but I see now you're confused.

The Bazz class was the one people hated.

Daniels is a kid that developed under Ollie, freescooter.

These are two simple separate statements that should be very hard for a person with a brain to confuse.

Hah. Thanks for proving my point. You are indeed a misinformed but self righteous jackass. You really know very very little about what goes on with UConn basketball.

 

[upstater]

Hah. Thanks for proving my point. You are indeed a misinformed but self righteous jackass.

Nov 15 eh? Freescooter? That's the day you decided to come back.

 

[Sonova]

Nov 15 eh? Freescooter? That's the day you decided to come back.

I assume this would be amusing if I were "freescooter?" If that's some sort of burn, I feel like a bully for engaging you in the first place.

 

[Stainmaster]

Hah. Thanks for proving my point. You are indeed a misinformed but self righteous jackass. You really know very very little about what goes on with UConn basketball.

You give JC credit for DeAndre's development even though the one year JC was one of his coaches, he averaged 3 and 2 in 12 MPG?

And to think you call people misinformed...

 

[Sonova]

You give JC credit for DeAndre's development even though the one year JC was one of his coaches, he averaged 3 and 2 in 12 MPG?

And to think you call people misinformed...

Nooooo. I gave him credit for recruiting him. But please point out where I ever gave him credit for developing DeAndre Daniels. I simply stated that suggesting that JC didn't (at least in part) develop the Bazz, Lamb, etc is flat out wrong. Good try though. And yes, upstater is still completely misinformed.

 

[Chief00]

You give JC credit for DeAndre's development even though the one year JC was one of his coaches, he averaged 3 and 2 in 12 MPG?

And to think you call people misinformed...

Jim Calhoun tears you down before he builds you up. Calhoun was actually the guy to tell Daniels before his best game (Florida semi finals game) that no one was talking about him. By all accounts that tweak led to his best game.
Stairmaster your vendetta against Jim Calhoun is very strange.

 

[upstater]

Nooooo. I gave him credit for recruiting him. But please point out where I ever gave him credit for developing DeAndre Daniels. I simply stated that suggesting that JC didn't (at least in part) develop the Bazz, Lamb, etc is flat out wrong. Good try though. And yes, upstater is still completely misinformed.

Lamb wasn't even an Ollie player. He left before Calhoun took over.

All these players improved greatly under Ollie: Daniel, Napier, Giffey, Boatright.

This is undeniable.

 

[Sonova]

Lamb wasn't even an Ollie player. He left before Calhoun took over.

All these players improved greatly under Ollie: Daniel, Napier, Giffey, Boatright.

This is undeniable.

You mean he left before Ollie took over. A real fan would know that.

All of those players got older and more experienced under Ollie. That is undeniable. Improved greatly? Because of Ollie? Not remotely close to being a fact.

 

[intlzncster]

Fishy also comes out of central casting as a board moderator. As long as he/she keeps the SHARK avatar there will be no moderating equivalent across the universe of message boards in the United States and beyond.

It is the stuff legends are made of! The Shark!!!! Me loves da Shark.

If Fishy's a 'she', (s)he's the ugliest one I've ever met.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm jealous. duck____ time zones.

Come on man, what's stopping you? After all, we've all seen you at your absolute best.

 

[upstater]

All of those players got older and more experienced under Ollie. That is undeniable. Improved greatly? Because of Ollie? Not remotely close to being a fact.

Greatly, as in night and day. Senior Boatright was 10x the player he was as a freshman. Senior Bazz was 20x. Giffey was 2 or 3x. Daniels was 10x the player. Night and day differences in these kids. Ollie develops players, as these four proved.

 

[Sonova]

Greatly, as in night and day. Senior Boatright was 10x the player he was as a freshman. Senior Bazz was 20x. Giffey was 2 or 3x. Daniels was 10x the player. Night and day differences in these kids. Ollie develops players, as these four proved.

Jesus you are exhausting in your quest to be right about every one of your opinions. If either Boatright or Daniels developed as much as you claim, they'd both be in the NBA right now. And let me save you your next post - yes, I know Boat is undersized. You seem to confuse kids getting older and more experienced with actual player development. I could just as easily point out Purvis, Brimah, Facey, Hamilton, etc.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Jesus you are exhausting in your quest to be right about every one of your opinions. If either Boatright or Daniels developed as much as you claim, they'd both be in the NBA right now. And let me save you your next post - yes, I know Boat is undersized.

In the three days or so you've been here you've demonstrated an off-putting tendency to assert your opinions as objective fact while insulting others that you accuse of doing the same thing.

 

[gtcam]

Sigh. I know they were in multiple classes. Go back and read your post again, you mentioned Daniels. And then confusingly wrote about "this class" and two years of universal derision. But fine, my point still stands. I couldn't care less what you and your Boneyard scrapbook says (or said) back in 2011 & 2012. Any class that featured Napier and Lamb was more than excellent starting in 2011 and 2012 so, I'm not going to attribute their individual success (or the 14 championship) to KO's development talent once JC left. You clearly think that Ollie is the right guy. I clearly don't. I'm a long way from hating Kevin Ollie - you have no idea - and I wish I felt differently and I hope that I'm wrong. But I find it asinine for you (who has an arrogantly-toned comment about EVERY new poster or anyone who dares to criticize Kevin Ollie) to dismiss people's legitimate fact-based (as well as subjective) concerns about the program based on what the Boneyard said 4+ years ago. So keep citing the Boneyard circa 2012. I don't care. It doesn't make you less wrong.

So it is your opinion that when JC was still coaching and had KO on his staff, KO never had a hand in developing these guys?
If you think that you are so wrong