A Dovian Take on KO

[8893]

At least add some humor to the interactions, you're boring.

Nailed me.

 

[superjohn]

Nailed me.

Disturbed. I like women.

 

[Waquoit]

nomar: That is a lucid, intelligent, well-thought-out post.
Dove: Thank you.
nomar: Shut up, Dove!

 

[Sonova]

You have to give it more time. There are struggles that are easy to see (lack of a point guard and another ball handler), and struggles that are not so easy to see (interrelations with the coach). In his first 2 years, Ollie had that team playing hard. If anything, we saw a dysfunctional team from Calhoun's last year here become a very tight team under Ollie. Calhoun was not always the master motivator. He actually threw in the towel with some of these kids (Oriakhi, to mention just one).

Also remember Calhoun mentioning how some teams were night-and-day in terms of attitude compared to other years. Like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Calhoun didn't throw in the towel with kids. You know nothing about that. For a self-proclaimed poster of facts, that just an opinion. And an amazingly ill-informed one at that.

 

[pnow15]

Actually, Ollie needs to dip into the best basketball talent pool in the country.
Geno's staff. He should hire Geno's future successor now: Shea Ralph. Let her handle the recruiting of players and fundamentals. Often, times the best man for the job is a good woman.

 

[KembaStepback]

You can't blame 2 absolutely horrible losses because the players haven't played together. They should beat Wagner and Northeastern with their bench players. Those losses are the fault of the coach for not getting them prepared for a zone. If your an optimist you say they would have gelled and became the team the were meant to or your a realist and see they had no inside game and no outside shooting that two slashers (Gilbert & Larrier) would have helped.

I'm not an optimist. I feel like I'm a realist. It takes time for teams to gel. Teams full of seniors and juniors who have played together for 3 seasons have a HUGE advantage over teams who haven't played together at all. Why do you think Team USA started practicing together more? They were playing teams like Spain and Argentina who have played together for ages and USA teams that were far more talented were losing. It happens. It's absolutely a thing.

My main point is that people who blame Ollie's coaching are just far to quick to jump on him. I don't know how many times watching these games these guys get open shots that they just don't make. That's on the players, not the coach. Enoch not being able to finish around the basket is not Ollie's fault. Vital not being able to make an open jumper is not Ollie's fault. Any team losing 2 of it's top 3 players will lose. They were a young team to begin with. Everyone needs to calm down, this season is over. Let's try to be positive.

 

[nomar]

I love Eli but I don't have a crusty fathead of him on my wall like you. You can be critical of a player or coaches deficiencies while still thinking they are good overall. If you want to pile on a post where upstater was attributing things to Fishy that we're never said, have at it.

Liked for use of the term "crusty fathead."

@8893 That didn't make you chuckle?

 

[8893]

Liked for use of the term "crusty fathead."

@8893 That didn't make you chuckle?

No, it skeeved me out. Especially considering the source, who has a telling habit of instantly invoking homoerotic images when lashing out at others, frequently coupled (as in this thread) with assertions of his own heterosexual manhood.

He seems to overcompensate a lot.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Are you going to pretend you don't know what that means? He's a young good looking guy who made it in the NBA when his skill level shouldn't have allowed him to. He has relationships with everyone in the league, including LeBron and Durant who speak glowingly about him. That's all called looking the part. Fishy and I agree he looks the part but when it comes down to coaching Fishy has a lot of reservations as do I. The entire meat of Fishy's post was that Ollie has major flaws, enough flaws that he wants a bench coach brought in to handle the X's and O's or mentor Ollie on the X's and O's.

Fishy also comes out of central casting as a board moderator. As long as he/she keeps the SHARK avatar there will be no moderating equivalent across the universe of message boards in the United States and beyond.

It is the stuff legends are made of! The Shark!!!! Me loves da Shark.

 

[huskiesnyc]

AAC or not the theory that UConn can't hire a great coach is total BS. UConn is a blue blood, brand, best program by far in the northeast, that oh yeah also sorta pays one of the top 10 highest coaching salaries in the country at 3+ million per year.

Even at 4 wins (chaminade doesn't count) in January, I want KO here and will root for him. But his seat warms up a lot next year and it should.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Player development is a far greater problem than x's and o's. When your players don't develop, it limits what you can do from and x and o standpoint.

I mean, this team doesn't do anything well offensively. They don't screen well, their cuts are often purposeless and poorly timed, nobody - sans Adams - can finish through contact, none of our bigs can put the ball on the floor or pass worth a damn, and our senior shooting guard recoils into a seizure every time he gets the ball. Then there is the obvious problem that nobody on the team can shoot.

I have never had any question that Ollie capable of diagramming an offense that churns out consistently good shots. But, save maybe last season, he's never had the personnel to do it (and by March, that team figured it out). Even the '14 team was limited at the forward position.

I don't necessarily think KO is incapable of tailoring his offense to suit the limitations of his personnel, but I think at his core he's a basketball junkie who loves the x's and o's aspect of the job, and that might help demonstrate why he always appears so mystified on the sidelines. Honestly, I don't blame him. He shouldn't have to spoon feed these kids pearls of wisdom that they should have gotten in the sixth grade. For as much as he's struggled as a college coach, I'd be willing to bet you could give him an NBA job tomorrow and he'd hold his own with the right team.

Ultimately, he'll need to either become a better teacher or a better identifier of players who have already been taught well. His inability to do one of those has been the undoing of these last three years.

Maybe Ollie could learn to be more like Tommy Lloyd who can mine the Canadian pipeline and beyond for well schooled high BB IQ talent.

At this point I am thinking of changing the color of my doghouse.


The sad thing though is it goes beyond some of the good points made by you and the Shark.

JMHO....well kinda.

 

[pj]

This board is full of result merchants.

Two years ago everyone was saying Ollie is a great player developer and game coach but a poor recruiter because he had improved Shabazz, Boat, Deandre, Niels, etc and brought in a national championship, yet recruiting was going poorly with several years in a row of weak classes.

Now we've had two years in a row of excellent recruiting classes but poor results on the court, and people are saying Ollie is a great recruiter but a poor coach.

A sensible person would conclude:
- Ollie proved he is an excellent coach in his first two years.
- Ollie proved he is an excellent recruiter in the last two years.
- The losing this year doesn't prove he has lost his ability to coach, it proves that injuries, a short bench, and multiple years of poor recruiting leaving you with freshman talent and upperclass weakness is a recipe for a failed season.

Only once Ollie has had 4 years of solid recruiting classes in a row, and has had time to coach up his talented classes for 4 years, can we judge his coaching ability. That's still 2-3 years away.

I for one have no doubt he'll be regarded as one of the NCAA's top coaches at that time. There isn't anyone I would trade for as our head coach - very happy to have KO.

 

[superjohn]

No, it skeeved me out. Especially considering the source, who has a telling habit of instantly invoking homoerotic images when lashing out at others, frequently coupled (as in this thread) with assertions of his own heterosexual manhood.

He seems to overcompensate a lot.

Wow, this is quite the melt. You've now brought up my hate for Eli (I like him) in several non Giants threads, I try and disengage with humor which seems like a foreign concept to you and now you're attacking me personally. Not a good look.

 

[upstater]

Are you going to pretend you don't know what that means? He's a young good looking guy who made it in the NBA when his skill level shouldn't have allowed him to. He has relationships with everyone in the league, including LeBron and Durant who speak glowingly about him. That's all called looking the part. Fishy and I agree he looks the part but when it comes down to coaching Fishy has a lot of reservations as do I. The entire meat of Fishy's post was that Ollie has major flaws, enough flaws that he wants a bench coach brought in to handle the X's and O's or mentor Ollie on the X's and O's.

LOL, it's because he's handsome. ! Look, don't respond to my posts and I won't respond to yours. You are out to lunch. Your idea of conversation is to ascribe the most absurd things to the person you're talking with. Enough.

 

[upstater]

This board is full of result merchants.

Two years ago everyone was saying Ollie is a great player developer and game coach but a poor recruiter because he had improved Shabazz, Boat, Deandre, Niels, etc and brought in a national championship, yet recruiting was going poorly with several years in a row of weak classes.

Now we've had two years in a row of excellent recruiting classes but poor results on the court, and people are saying Ollie is a great recruiter but a poor coach.

A sensible person would conclude:
- Ollie proved he is an excellent coach in his first two years.
- Ollie proved he is an excellent recruiter in the last two years.
- The losing this year doesn't prove he has lost his ability to coach, it proves that injuries, a short bench, and multiple years of poor recruiting leaving you with freshman talent and upperclass weakness is a recipe for a failed season.

Only once Ollie has had 4 years of solid recruiting classes in a row, and has had time to coach up his talented classes for 4 years, can we judge his coaching ability. That's still 2-3 years away.

I for one have no doubt he'll be regarded as one of the NCAA's top coaches at that time. There isn't anyone I would trade for as our head coach - very happy to have KO.

And if you go back to the 2014 season, you'll see the same exact posters writing the most absurd things. They didn't learn the last time. I could post the utterly ridiculous crap they wrote back then, but they're not even ashamed of it.

 

[upstater]

Calhoun didn't throw in the towel with kids. You know nothing about that. For a self-proclaimed poster of facts, that just an opinion. And an amazingly ill-informed one at that.

He definitely threw in the towel on Oriakhi. We all saw it. 2012 was not pretty. We all know it.

 

[superjohn]

LOL, it's because he's handsome. ! Look, don't respond to my posts and I won't respond to yours. You are out to lunch. Your idea of conversation is to ascribe the most absurd things to the person you're talking with. Enough.

You calling me "out to lunch" is something I'll where as a badge of honor. McHale is better than Bird and Paterno is a saint! Later gator.

 

[8893]

Wow, this is quite the melt. You've now brought up my hate for Eli (I like him) in several non Giants threads, I try and disengage with humor which seems like a foreign concept to you and now you're attacking me personally. Not a good look.

Melt? Personal attacks? I made passing mention of your Eli issues in this thread as an analogy to prove a point, and you have come through splendidly on that score.

Please show me the "several non Giants threads" in which I have done so.

Sheesh, snowflake, go back to the gym and work out your issues--whatever they are.

There is a lot of humor here, but not where you're looking.

It's been nice trolling you, but it's drinking time for me, stupendous juan.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It's been nice trolling you, but it's drinking time for me, stupendous juan.

I'm jealous. duck____ time zones.

 

[superjohn]

Melt? Personal attacks? I made passing mention of your Eli issues in this thread as an analogy to prove a point, and you have come through splendidly on that score.

Please show me the "several non Giants threads" in which I have done so.

Sheesh, snowflake, go back to the gym and work out your issues--whatever they are.

There is a lot of humor here, but not where you're looking.

It's been nice trolling you, but it's drinking time for me, stupendous juan.

Bwahaha, the melt continues! Better than anything I've seen on the cesspool. Drinking started early for someone today.

 

[8893]

Guess I should have linked definitions of "melt," "trolling" and "drinking" too.

I gather you have "homoerotic" covered.

Oh, and "hyperbole."

 

[jibsey]

Actually, Ollie needs to dip into the best basketball talent pool in the country.
Geno's staff. He should hire Geno's future successor now: Shea Ralph. Let her handle the recruiting of players and fundamentals. Often, times the best man for the job is a good woman.

Do you know her? Because when she played for Geno she was as hard a competitor as they ever had. Would have gone through a brick wall if he asked, unfortunately her knees paid a price. Is recruiting what she does?

 

[superjohn]

I'm jealous. duck____ time zones.

At least it's not 8 degrees where you are. Good weather to work your issues out at the gym!

 

[superjohn]

Guess I should have linked definitions of "melt," "trolling" and "drinking" too.

I gather you have "homoerotic" covered.

Oh, and "hyperbole."

You're struggling, it's okay.

 

[Sonova]

This board is full of result merchants.

Two years ago everyone was saying Ollie is a great player developer and game coach but a poor recruiter because he had improved Shabazz, Boat, Deandre, Niels, etc and brought in a national championship, yet recruiting was going poorly with several years in a row of weak classes.

Now we've had two years in a row of excellent recruiting classes but poor results on the court, and people are saying Ollie is a great recruiter but a poor coach.

A sensible person would conclude:
- Ollie proved he is an excellent coach in his first two years.
- Ollie proved he is an excellent recruiter in the last two years.
- The losing this year doesn't prove he has lost his ability to coach, it proves that injuries, a short bench, and multiple years of poor recruiting leaving you with freshman talent and upperclass weakness is a recipe for a failed season.

Only once Ollie has had 4 years of solid recruiting classes in a row, and has had time to coach up his talented classes for 4 years, can we judge his coaching ability. That's still 2-3 years away.

I for one have no doubt he'll be regarded as one of the NCAA's top coaches at that time. There isn't anyone I would trade for as our head coach - very happy to have KO.

To begin with, it's the highest level of college sports...it's kind of a results-driven thing. Quality and culture and representing dear old UConn matter certainly, but not above winning. They matter as a part of, and in addition to winning. That's what Jim Calhoun built over 30 years ago and what all of us want to continue, no?

Since you spoke for the entire board above, I'll excuse myself and speak just for me and my thoughts 2 years ago. I though KO did an amazing job taking the reins from JC. He took his players and his system and produced a terrific 1st year and a good 2nd year (regular season) with obviously, an incredible NCAA run. The questions that I recall asking and hearing (perhaps not solely on this forum) were, "how would KO do with HIS players and HIS program?" Those are the questions being answered now and over the coming year(s). And count me as someone who is really, really concerned by what I'm seeing and have been seeing over the last 2.5 years and what I see next year and beyond.

 

[UCweCONN]

No, his coaching record at UCONN and inability to win close games and beat low D1 programs is why we think KO is inept. It has nothing to do with KO except that I haven't experienced a year like this since JC's first season here. We may lose 20 games.

 

[Waquoit]

He should hire Geno's future successor now: Shea Ralph.

What makes you think she would accept a demotion?

 

[upstater]

You calling me "out to lunch" is something I'll where as a badge of honor. McHale is better than Bird and Paterno is a saint! Later gator.

See you did it again. McHale being better for a stretch of the 1985 season is now McHale was better for all time. Ridiculous. As for Penn State, what part of "It should get the death penalty" don't you understand. Something in you makes you converse with people as though it is a battle to derange everything the other person says. I don't know if it's a poor attention span or what; maybe reading more slowly would help--but obviously I'm not the only one that has this problem with your posts.

 

[upstater]

To begin with, it's the highest level of college sports...it's kind of a results-driven thing. Quality and culture and representing dear old UConn matter certainly, but not above winning. They matter as a part of, and in addition to winning. That's what Jim Calhoun built over 30 years ago and what all of us want to continue, no?

Since you spoke for the entire board above, I'll excuse myself and speak just for me and my thoughts 2 years ago. I though KO did an amazing job taking the reins from JC. He took his players and his system and produced a terrific 1st year and a good 2nd year (regular season) with obviously, an incredible NCAA run. The questions that I recall asking and hearing (perhaps not solely on this forum) were, "how would KO do with HIS players and HIS program?" Those are the questions being answered now and over the coming year(s). And count me as someone who is really, really concerned by what I'm seeing and have been seeing over the last 2.5 years and what I see next year and beyond.

KO took players who were sophs and frosh under Calhoun, players who experienced a really tough frustrating season with a couple of kids in open rebellion against Calhoun on the bench, and on social media, and he made helped these players improve. Almost all of them did. Giffey, Daniels, Napier, Boatright. These were not the same players they were under Calhoun. And, oh by the way, this recruiting class under Calhoun, which was universally derided as being horrifically awful in 2011 and 2012, ended up winning a national championship, with a run through top coaches like Donovan, Izzo, Jay Wright, Calipari, Hoiberg.

 

[Sonova]

He definitely threw in the towel on Oriakhi. We all saw it. 2012 was not pretty. We all know it.

"We all know it?" What are you a middle schooler? He played Andre Drummond and Oriaki and his father threw a temper tantrum b/c their pipe dreams of a long NBA career were coming to an end. Hardly throwing in the towel.