OT: 21st century CBB Mt. RUSHMORE

[the Q]

What are we going for here? Stats, championships, fame, combo of all?

The list has to include
Reddick
Hansborough
Kemba

Last spot is crowded by give me Noah's b2b championships even if Al Horford was the NBA guy on that team.

Melo is a one and done so he only belongs if you are looking for impact players. That list looks like this

Melo
Curry
Kemba
McDermott

Has to?

TH wasn’t the best player in the nation at any point

He got a nice career achievement award over Beasley

 

[superjohn]

That is exactly why it doesn't stand out to me. I remember this tournament as one that was almost a forgone conclusion. I remember no one even touching them. The Michigan championship game was one of the least memorable as well (though most are). The depth of talent didn't help jalen Brunson stand out to me. When you have 5 nba players, it's kind of hard to pick out the alpha male. The Mount Rushmore is not a team monument.
In my opinion jalen brunson didn't carry that team on his shoulders like kemba or Carmelo did. We all have our reasons and biases. This is mine.

Okay, blowouts do nothing for you. '16 didn't stand out to you? That was one of the best finishes in the history of college basketball.

 

[Jaydumo20]

What are we going for here? Stats, championships, fame, combo of all?

The list has to include
Reddick
Hansborough
Kemba

Last spot is crowded by give me Noah's b2b championships even if Al Horford was the NBA guy on that team.

Melo is a one and done so he only belongs if you are looking for impact players. That list looks like this

Melo
Curry
Kemba
McDermott

My main thing was individual greatness. But it's all up to you. I just want to see what people say. Your analysis is a welcome one.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Okay, blowouts do nothing for you. '16 didn't stand out to you? That was one of the best finishes in the history of college basketball.

In your earlier post, when someone said Brunson was a runner up for his rushmore you said "yeah, he gets forgotten about too much". You realize it. So it's not just me. Also, in the vast majority of responses Brunson wasn't mentioned either, (he wasn't in your top 4). McDermott got way more love across the board. so it's not just me. I didn't choose Brunson, neither did most people, including you. I think he'd look weird on Rushmore next to Kemba, Curry, Davis, Hansborough and some of the other popular picks. People would be like "who's that??" Like they do with Teddy Roosevelt on the real Rushmore.

 

[the Q]

Besides being a solid outside shooter, ball handler, and general PITA, Reddick was the absolute master of the "Duke Flop".

And the Gillespie push off, and the most annoying head bob on the planet

And would be on the mt Rushmore of punchable faces for century in Cbb

 

[tzznandrew]

I remember being pissed we were underseeded at 7, but then intrigued by having Nova as our 2. I thought they were a textbook paper tiger that year and loved our chances to get by them.

And the possibility of playing at MSG was also pretty alluring. All in all a perfect storm.

 

[uconnblueinky]

Christian Laettner
Tyler Hansbrough
Kemba Walker
Anthony Davis
Ohh , 21st century... Joakim Noah for Laettner

 

[Jaydumo20]

Christian Laettner
Tyler Hansbrough
Kemba Walker
Anthony Davis
Ohh , 21st century... Joakim Noah for Laettner

Noah tempted me. So did Adam Morrison. But he didn't have the natty's. God, I'm so gun shy now because I'm afraid @superjohn is going to destroy me. "Adam Morrison? Are you in a mental hospital. Etc etc. "

 

[Jaydumo20]

Has to?

TH wasn’t the best player in the nation at any point

He got a nice career achievement award over Beasley

In 2008 he was. You can't override the facts. That's like saying "Trump is my President" . People who know college basketball way better than you named him the best player in the league. I don't want to hear that you know more than them. I won't even entertain that because it's egotistical nonsense. Too many people living "their own truth".

 

[the Q]

In 2008 he was. You can't override the facts. That's like saying "Trump is my President" . People who know college basketball way better than you named him the best player in the league. I don't want to hear that you know more than them. I won't even entertain that because it's egotistical nonsense. Too many people living "their own truth".

Yea, writers never get anything wrong

I’m going to assume you aren’t a baseball fan.

 

[the Q]

In 2008 he was. You can't override the facts. That's like saying "Trump is my President" . People who know college basketball way better than you named him the best player in the league. I don't want to hear that you know more than them. I won't even entertain that because it's egotistical nonsense. Too many people living "their own truth".

Here’s your facts

Love
Beasley
Curry

All has win shares over 10 (love was 11.3)

TH was at 8.7

Love was in the top 5 for both O and D win shares.

Beasley in the top 6 for each

 

[tzznandrew]

In 2008 he was. You can't override the facts. That's like saying "Trump is my President" . People who know college basketball way better than you named him the best player in the league. I don't want to hear that you know more than them. I won't even entertain that because it's egotistical nonsense. Too many people living "their own truth".

Tyler Hansboro was a major story for every year he was in college, and they went to an E8, a FF, won a title...while they got upset early his freshman (2006) year to a little school called George Mason.

Whether or not he was the "best player" in any given year, he was undoubtedly good and important every year he played. Same goes for JJ Redick, no matter how much we disliked each. Reddick just didn't win a title.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Yea, writers never get anything wrong

I’m going to assume you aren’t a baseball fan.

I'm a huge baseball fan. I don't miss a game. But it was a consensus POY for TH. Look at the non writers in this thread, a good many said TH too. There's too much evidence here to think that he is a fluke. Come on. You can't deny numbers. POY and 3 x consensus 1st team AA, natty. Not to mention that he absolutely abused people at the college level. Go back and watch tape. He was completely dominant. Visibly. In the ACC. If that's not real then nothing is real. I can just as easily say Karl Malone was never good. But they'd just be words.

 

[the Q]

I'm a huge baseball fan. I don't miss a game. But it was a consensus POY for TH. Look at the non writers in this thread, a good many said TH too. There's too much evidence here to think that he is a fluke. Come on. You can't deny numbers. POY and 3 x consensus 1st team AA, natty. Not to mention that he absolutely abused people at the college level. Go back and watch tape. He was completely dominant. Visibly. In the ACC. If that's not real then nothing is real. I can just as easily say Karl Malone was never good. But they'd just be words.

He wasn’t a bad player.

But he wasn’t as good as the other 2 players I mentioned that year

He was also 24 years old at the time.

It shouldn’t matter for single season awards, but I think it provides some context when you do things like this.

He was a grown man playing against 18 and 19 year old kids.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Tyler Hansboro was a major story for every year he was in college, and they went to an E8, a FF, won a title...while they got upset early his freshman (2006) year to a little school called George Mason.

Whether or not he was the "best player" in any given year, he was undoubtedly good and important every year he played. Same goes for JJ Redick, no matter how much we disliked each. Reddick just didn't win a title.

Well Said.

 

[Jaydumo20]

He wasn’t a bad player.

But he wasn’t as good as the other 2 players I mentioned that year

He was also 24 years old at the time.

It shouldn’t matter for single season awards, but I think it provides some context when you do things like this.

He was a grown man playing against 18 and 19 year old kids.

Beasley had a phenomenal year the year TH won POY. Better numbers at least. But you can't use the age argument if the player you are defending was 19 years old. Obviously 19 year olds aren't at a prohibitive disadvantage. Was TH hands down, without a question heads above everyone that year? No, i wouldnt go that far. But I challenge you to find me an MVP in any sport where, 9/10 times, there is not an argument to be made that someone else had a better year. Either way, strength of evidence tilts heavily towards the player who won POY in reality- not in theory.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Besides being a solid outside shooter, ball handler, and general PITA, Reddick was the absolute master of the "Duke Flop".

I thought his was talking about Tyler Hansborough. I was’t aware I suppose to hate him. Reddick for sure .
I’m not sure whose second on the Duke hate least certainly Battier, and Reddick are contenders for that honor. There is only one number one.

 

[YearoftheHusky]

All Doug McDermott did during his four years at Creighton was rewrite college basketball’s record books while drawing comparisons to Larry Bird. He left Creighton as college basketball’s No. 5 all-time leading scorer and as the sport’s first three-time All-American since Patrick Ewing.

 

[SubbaBub]

All Doug McDermott did during his four years at Creighton was rewrite college basketball’s record books while drawing comparisons to Larry Bird. He left Creighton as college basketball’s No. 5 all-time leading scorer and as the sport’s first three-time All-American since Patrick Ewing.

I have no problem with people including McD, but would you also include Larry Bird on any Mount Rushmore for CBB other than his '79 rivalry with Magic? Of course, it brought CBB into the mainstream but that's a TV accomplishment but as a NCAA solo effort?.

I had to double check on Kemba for a similar reason. Does his one epic season make him worthy. I say yes because it was that epic. The absolute best of the one year runs. Better than Curry, Nelson, Jimmer and any of the others who carried there teams. IMO, you either need to be a dominant player for multiple seasons or accomplish something so great it demands inclusion. Carmelo is close but I can't get myself to abide putting a one and done player in the top 4, even if they were a No 1. lottery pick who won a championship (AD is out). Battier is close too, but he was the face more than the top player. Horford is close, but Noah was the face and just as good over the two title seasons. (This doesn't have to make complete sense.) Shabazz is also close but I feel it'd be too homerish to include 2 UConn players and Kemba is above Bazz in NCAA history despite 14 being every bit a feat that 11 was and Bazz 2>1. The Kemba legend is still the #1 MBB story since 2000.

I can't think of too many other candidates. Guys who had great numbers but the causal fan can't remember don't belong, either.

 

[alphasigko]

Too many to name.... There were so many great players over the years...

My List of 5:

Kareem
Walton
Pistol Pete
Steve Alford
Isiah Thomas

Surely the last 2 can be replaced by many names but they do deserve a mention.

 

[superjohn]

All Doug McDermott did during his four years at Creighton was rewrite college basketball’s record books while drawing comparisons to Larry Bird. He left Creighton as college basketball’s No. 5 all-time leading scorer and as the sport’s first three-time All-American since Patrick Ewing.

Four years and never made a sweet 16, it's incredibly offensive that anyone compared McDermott to Larry Bird.

 

[YearoftheHusky]

Four years and never made a sweet 16, it's incredibly offensive that anyone compared McDermott to Larry Bird.

This is an individual accolade, not a team one. Kemba is my all time favorite, but he had more surrounding him the Dougie ever did.

 

[superjohn]

This is an individual accolade, not a team one. Kemba is my all time favorite, but he had more surrounding him the Dougie ever did.

Larry Bird singlehandedly took Indiana State to the title game, Curry singlehandedly knocked off the Zags, Georgetown, and Wisconsin before taking Kansas to the brink. McDermott was a great college scorer who rebounded well but couldn't pass and played zero defense. It's insane anyone compared him to Larry Bird.

 

[methodology]

Larry Bird singlehandedly took Indiana State to the title game, Curry singlehandedly knocked off the Zags, Georgetown, and Wisconsin before taking Kansas to the brink. McDermott was a great college scorer who rebounded well but couldn't pass and played zero defense. It's insane anyone compared him to Larry Bird.

Doug had a Defensive Win Share of 5.2 over 4 seasons

Whaley has a Defensive Win Share of 4.8 currently in his 5th season

Doug played defense he just isn’t an all conference defensive player. His lowest DWS was 1.0 and highest 1.7. He was never a defensive liability

 

[Jaydumo20]

I have no problem with people including McD, but would you also include Larry Bird on any Mount Rushmore for CBB other than his '79 rivalry with Magic? Of course, it brought CBB into the mainstream but that's a TV accomplishment but as a NCAA solo effort?.

I had to double check on Kemba for a similar reason. Does his one epic season make him worthy. I say yes because it was that epic. The absolute best of the one year runs. Better than Curry, Nelson, Jimmer and any of the others who carried there teams. IMO, you either need to be a dominant player for multiple seasons or accomplish something so great it demands inclusion. Carmelo is close but I can't get myself to abide putting a one and done player in the top 4, even if they were a No 1. lottery pick who won a championship (AD is out). Battier is close too, but he was the face more than the top player. Horford is close, but Noah was the face and just as good over the two title seasons. (This doesn't have to make complete sense.) Shabazz is also close but I feel it'd be too homerish to include 2 UConn players and Kemba is above Bazz in NCAA history despite 14 being every bit a feat that 11 was and Bazz 2>1. The Kemba legend is still the #1 MBB story since 2000.

I can't think of too many other candidates. Guys who had great numbers but the causal fan can't remember don't belong, either.

This was my rationale almost verbatim. Although we may have different people in our 4, ( I included Melo because I can't remember personally watching a an under classman carry a team like that) I also left Bazz off for your reasoning. Even though kembas and bazz's seasons were similar, kembas was just a little more epic. By a slim margin