OT: 21st century CBB Mt. RUSHMORE

[Jaydumo20]

That’s my bad then. I could tell you that the Big East without us was a mid major, but instead I’ll just apologize for my mistake. Still don’t think he’s near the level of best 4 in a 22 year period, but sorry to have confused the situation

Even though I think he deserves a spot, I couldn't agree with you more. The Big East took a huge step back during the re-org. I think we need to collectively do well in the tourney this year to get that rep again

 

[superjohn]

He scored 3150 points in his career with over 1000 rebounds and his shooting numbers were incredible

Career 55% FG, 45.8% 3pt, 83.1% FT
TS% 65.2
eFG% 61.6

His numbers are incredible, so are Luke Harangody's. I don't consider either of them on the Mount Rushmore for college basketball players over the last 21 years.

 

[the Q]

He scored 3150 points in his career with over 1000 rebounds and his shooting numbers were incredible

Career 55% FG, 45.8% 3pt, 83.1% FT
TS% 65.2
eFG% 61.6

My favorite stat on him is an nba one.

In the last 4 years he has ZERO unassisted threes

 

[BlueMAB]

He scored 3150 points in his career with over 1000 rebounds and his shooting numbers were incredible

Career 55% FG, 45.8% 3pt, 83.1% FT
TS% 65.2
eFG% 61.6

I think @businesslawyer 's point is imagine what RJ Cole's numbers would be if he stayed at Howard and played only his senior season in the big east. (not that RJ Cole is as good as McDermott)

McDermott played 1 year in the Big East. He played 33 mpg and averaged 26.7 PPG. Both the highest of his career. However, his FG% and 3PT% were the lowest since his freshman season. His RPG was the lowest of his career. 3 years in the MVC certainly helped his stats.

 

[methodology]

I think @businesslawyer 's point is imagine what RJ Cole's numbers would be if he stayed at Howard and played only his senior season in the big east. (not that RJ Cole is as good as McDermott)

McDermott played 1 year in the Big East. He played 33 mpg and averaged 26.7 PPG. Both the highest of his career. However, his FG% and 3PT% were the lowest since his freshman season. His RPG was the lowest of his career. 3 years in the MVC certainly helped his stats.

The 2 leagues aren’t even comparable. The MVC was always solid for a mid major and during his years they ranked #11, #9, #8 (ahead of SEC) in the conference rankings

The MEAC where RJ Cole played was literally the worst conference in college ranking #31 out of 32 leagues his first year and dead last at #32 his second year

And his stats might have been the “worst” since freshman year but he still shot incredible it was minor decreases in ever stat you listed while he increased his shot load and his rebounds were still 7/game like every other year instead of 7.7 or whatever it was

 

[Jaydumo20]

His numbers are incredible, so are Luke Harangody's. I don't consider either of them on the Mount Rushmore for college basketball players over the last 21 years.

I don't think there is a right answer. Allow me to compare this to the recent Hurley Drama though:
Many people who disagreed with Hurley's ejection (I'm one of them) cited the fact that the majority of the voices in the CBB world (Greenberg, svp, Seth Davis, etc.) also thought the ejection was warrantless. In the Doug McDermott case, not only me and a few BY'ers but also the writers and committee, had him as a consensus 1st team all American for 3 years. They knew he was in the MVC. That didn't stop them. And when he finally went to the big east they were justified in their assessment. Harangody had great numbers too. But that shouldn't detract from D McD. At least recognize that putting McDermott on the 21st century Mt Rushmore is not a wildly baseless claim- it's simply that You yourself wouldn't include him. Which is fair

 

[methodology]

Doug McDermott literally shot better than Steph Curry in college and Steph played in an inferior conference

Steph college shooting stats:

FG% 46.7 vs 55%
3Pt% 41.2 vs 45.8%
Ft% 87.6 vs 83.1%
TS% 62 vs 65.2%
eFG% 57.8 vs 61.6%

His numbers are incredible, so are Luke Harangody's. I don't consider either of them on the Mount Rushmore for college basketball players over the last 21 years.

look and compare doug vs luke stats it’s not that close. Doug was insanely efficient and consistent. He was hidden playing is the MVC and yes it’s mid major but one of the best mid major conference. It isn’t the MEAC or sun belt or southern conference etc

I think he gets very overlooked. Jimmer isn’t even comparable looking at their stats or JJ Redick

Obviously he isn’t a generational talent like Zion or AD or any of those types but as a complete college player there’s hasn’t been many better looking at raw numbers/stats

 

[AZHuskiePop]

It's the last guy. Behind Laettner and McNamara, possibly the most hated guy in history of BY.

I know why we hated Laettner and McNamara , but why did we hate him?
There were other guys both in the Big East and AAC that were thorns also
Shane Battier or pretty much anyone with a Duke Uniform.

 

[AdamaNation]

kemba - for obvious reasons.
davis - POY and final 4 mvp. best defensive player of the decade.
hansborough - POY and final 4 mvp. 2x 1st team AA, 1x 2nd team AA, 1x 3rd team AA.
battier - POY, 3 finals appearances, 2 rings.

Did Noah win 2 rings at Florida?

 

[bendm]

Did Noah win 2 rings at Florida?

yeah but i think my runner up was jalen brunson with 2 rings and a POY.

 

[superjohn]

yeah but i think my runner up was jalen brunson with 2 rings and a POY.

He gets forgotten about too much. Most of my runner ups would be small guards- Kemba, Brunson, Jay Williams, Bazz.

 

[the Q]

Did Noah win 2 rings at Florida?

Yup. That would’ve been a great choice as well.

 

[Jaydumo20]

yeah but i think my runner up was jalen brunson with 2 rings and a POY.

Damn. Brunson is a good one. Slipped my mind. For some reason he didn't stick out when I was thinking of this. I don't think he jumped off the screen like some of these other guys.
Compared to the last 2 uconn final wins
The '16 and '18nova wins just didn't feel as dynamic. They are kind of just "there". I also don't remember ever thinking that he was the best player in the country at any point even though he was the year he won POY. Even guys like buddy heild and steph jumped off the screen more than Brunson.

 

[BlueMAB]

The 2 leagues aren’t even comparable. The MVC was always solid for a mid major and during his years they ranked #11, #9, #8 (ahead of SEC) in the conference rankings

The MEAC where RJ Cole played was literally the worst conference in college ranking #31 out of 32 leagues his first year and dead last at #32 his second year

And his stats might have been the “worst” since freshman year but he still shot incredible it was minor decreases in ever stat you listed while he increased his shot load and his rebounds were still 7/game like every other year instead of 7.7 or whatever it was

Fortunately I wasn't comparing leagues or players.

Unfortunately, you missed the point, and I won't waste your time explaining how.

 

[tzznandrew]

Doug McDermott literally shot better than Steph Curry in college and Steph played in an inferior conference

Steph college shooting stats:

FG% 46.7 vs 55%
3Pt% 41.2 vs 45.8%
Ft% 87.6 vs 83.1%
TS% 62 vs 65.2%
eFG% 57.8 vs 61.6%

look and compare doug vs luke stats it’s not that close. Doug was insanely efficient and consistent. He was hidden playing is the MVC and yes it’s mid major but one of the best mid major conference. It isn’t the MEAC or sun belt or southern conference etc

I think he gets very overlooked. Jimmer isn’t even comparable looking at their stats or JJ Redick

Obviously he isn’t a generational talent like Zion or AD or any of those types but as a complete college player there’s hasn’t been many better looking at raw numbers/stats

Which player took a team to the Elite 8 and nearly beat the national champions? Which player never made it out of the second round despite playing as a 3 seed one of his three appearances?

LeBron was showing up at Curry games. You can tell the history of the 21st century without Doug McDermott.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Which player took a team to the Elite 8 and nearly beat the national champions? Which player never made it out of the second round despite playing as a 3 seed one of his three appearances?

LeBron was showing up at Curry games. You can tell the history of the 21st century without Doug McDermott.

You can also tell the history of 21st CBB without Davidson "almost" beating the eventual Champs in the elite 8, and LeBron coming to watch them play.

 

[storrsroars]

I know why we hated Laettner and McNamara , but why did we hate him?

Besides being a solid outside shooter, ball handler, and general PITA, Reddick was the absolute master of the "Duke Flop".

 

[tzznandrew]

You can also tell the history of 21st CBB without Davidson "almost" beating the eventual Champs in the elite 8, and LeBron coming to watch them play.

Curry and Davidson were covered like crazy for over a year. He was a national sensation. His Davidson team played great games in the 2008 tournament by making upset after upset. You have documentaries still made about the crazy things that happened like when Loyola (MD) held him scoreless by double teaming him every second of the game.

You may not think that makes him one of the most important four players of the 21st century, but his team was a combination of hype and substance that was far more relevant to the national scene than McDermott.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Curry and Davidson were covered like crazy for over a year. He was a national sensation. His Davidson team played great games in the 2008 tournament by making upset after upset. You have documentaries still made about the crazy things that happened like when Loyola (MD) held him scoreless by double teaming him every second of the game.

You may not think that makes him one of the most important four players of the 21st century, but his team was a combination of hype and substance that was far more relevant to the national scene than McDermott.

I don't disagree with you that Steph is really important and has done enough to be on Mt. Rushmore. I get that some people wouldn't put Doug mcD on theirs. There are only 4 spots. But it seems like you and others are saying he has no place and it it's ridiculous to even consider him. His numbers and accolades are enough to support his inclusion. The only argument has been that he played seasons in a mid major but that applies to Steph as well. Doug McD won his POY while in the big east. It is not a zero sum game - Steph or Doug. They were both great. I'd be foolish to deny Stephs greatness and you would be foolish to deny Doug's- the committees disagree with you. CONSENSUS 3x 1st team all American

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't disagree with you that Steph is really important and has done enough to be on Mt. Rushmore. I get that some people wouldn't put Doug mcD on theirs. There are only 4 spots. But it seems like you and others are saying he has no place and it it's ridiculous to even consider him. His numbers and accolades are enough to support his inclusion. The only argument has been that he played seasons in a mid major but that applies to Steph as well. Doug McD won his POY while in the big east. It is not a zero sum game - Steph or Doug. They were both great. I'd be foolish to deny Stephs greatness and you would be foolish to deny Doug's- the committees disagree with you. CONSENSUS 3x 1st team all American

Mount Rushmore, though, is about more than that. McDermott was a regular season player.

He was a great player in college, so it's not like there is a wrong answer, but to me there needs to be story, regular season, and post-season success when you only get four spots, and there are a bunch of players I'd put on the list before a dude who never made a Sweet 16.

 

[UConNick]

Even though I think he deserves a spot, I couldn't agree with you more. The Big East took a huge step back during the re-org. I think we need to collectively do well in the tourney this year to get that rep again

I remember being pissed we were underseeded at 7, but then intrigued by having Nova as our 2. I thought they were a textbook paper tiger that year and loved our chances to get by them.

 

[superjohn]

Damn. Brunson is a good one. Slipped my mind. For some reason he didn't stick out when I was thinking of this. I don't think he jumped off the screen like some of these other guys.
Compared to the last 2 uconn final wins
The '16 and '18nova wins just didn't feel as dynamic. They are kind of just "there". I also don't remember ever thinking that he was the best player in the country at any point even though he was the year he won POY. Even guys like buddy heild and steph jumped off the screen more than Brunson.

What? The 2018 Nova team is easily one of the best teams of the 2000's. They steamrolled everyone in the tournament and had at least 5 NBA players.

 

[Jaydumo20]

What? The 2018 Nova team is easily one of the best teams of the 2000's. They steamrolled everyone in the tournament and had at least 5 NBA players.

That is exactly why it doesn't stand out to me. I remember this tournament as one that was almost a forgone conclusion. I remember no one even touching them. The Michigan championship game was one of the least memorable as well (though most are). The depth of talent didn't help jalen Brunson stand out to me. When you have 5 nba players, it's kind of hard to pick out the alpha male. The Mount Rushmore is not a team monument.
In my opinion jalen brunson didn't carry that team on his shoulders like kemba or Carmelo did. We all have our reasons and biases. This is mine.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Mount Rushmore, though, is about more than that. McDermott was a regular season player.

He was a great player in college, so it's not like there is a wrong answer, but to me there needs to be story, regular season, and post-season success when you only get four spots, and there are a bunch of players I'd put on the list before a dude who never made a Sweet 16.

Well said. I agree with that, the story matters. I did hesitate to put Doug on the list because of it. There are so many options. I was deciding between Jimmer, Doug and Steph. I thought the list needed that guy who just knocked everything down, from anywhere on the court. Jimmer came in 3rd, but when I looked at Doug's stats and awards it was hard to keep him off. If I were to create a Rushmore in my own backyard 3 of the 4 would be bazz, kemba, and Emeka. I appreciate your even handedness in response.

 

[SubbaBub]

What are we going for here? Stats, championships, fame, combo of all?

The list has to include
Reddick
Hansborough
Kemba

Last spot is crowded by give me Noah's b2b championships even if Al Horford was the NBA guy on that team.

Melo is a one and done so he only belongs if you are looking for impact players. That list looks like this

Melo
Curry
Kemba
McDermott