Search firm (not Neinas)

[J187Money]

Seems like picking up the phone and making some calls would fall within the scope of a 400k job. Seems like you need a consultant to tell you how to wipe your these days. Just another way for highly compensated folks to avoid responsibility for their decisions. Hell, this board has already done most of the work on candidates.

One of the things that we don't know is how many other schools are calling a particular candidate. A search firm would know that there are 5 other schools calling Lembo, and what the packages might look like. They can help us structure a winning package. I don't think this has much at all to do with the "picking" of the candidate, but there is a lot of crap in the process that people that don't do this for a living screw up every time. And if something goes wrong, you'd rather not have it be because someone on Warde's staff messed something up...because then the BY would be screaming that we weren't BIG TIME because we handled it in house and screwed it up like a bunch of amateurs.

 

[Husky25]

This search firm stuff is no different than Calipari being buddies with World Wide Wes. It's just dressed up in a fancy Brooks Brothers suit.

Just curious when did search firms become such an indispensable part of the hiring process? Did UConn use one to hire Calhoun or Auriemma? Did Ohio State use one to hire Meyer?

Calhoun was hired 27 years ago. Things were different back then. This is no different than Cigna or Travelers using a headhunter to fill a roll in their underwriting department. The headhunter has a database of candidates to match with the roll. I'm positive that Mr. Manuel has a few candidates in mind and he will give that list to the search firm to vet.

You better believe that if Calhoun retired a few weeks earlier, a search firm would have been used for a new basketball coach. Timing was as such that Coach Ollie was basically forced on the Athletic Department, which is why Coach Ollie's initial contract was due to expire in April.

 

[ruskin]

You better believe that if Calhoun retired a few weeks earlier, a search firm would have been used for a new basketball coach. Timing was as such that Coach Ollie was basically forced on the Athletic Department, which is why Coach Ollie's initial contract was due to expire in April.

Believe that was the JC plan all along, follow what Dean Smith did at UNC with Guthridge. Thankfully for UConn it would appear that KO is head and shoulders above Guthridge and Matt Doherty.

 

[ruskin]

I have two people in my corner. Blue Dogs and some guy named Tom Jurich. I love google 'Tom Jurich Charlie Strong search firm"

From coachingsearch.com June 30

Athletic director Tom Jurich explained his process of hiring coaches, which is different from many places. Jurich doesn't hired a search firm. He is the search firm.

 

[Husky25]

Believe that was the JC plan all along, follow what Dean Smith did at UNC with Guthridge. Thankfully for UConn it would appear that KO is head and shoulders above Guthridge and Matt Doherty.

I've made that point many times on this board. Warde Manuel handled the "Ollie is my successor" as best as anyone would have and could have expected.

Can't take anything from Billy Guthridge though. Yes he inherited a monsterly talented team, but he went to the Final 4 twice in his 3 years before "retiring." Doherty was an unmitigated disaster, as the consolation prize to Roy Williams.

 

[huskymedic]

I have two people in my corner. Blue Dogs and some guy named Tom Jurich. I love google 'Tom Jurich Charlie Strong search firm"

From coachingsearch.com June 30

Athletic director Tom Jurich explained his process of hiring coaches, which is different from many places. Jurich doesn't hired a search firm. He is the search firm.

Do you really need someone to point out that WM does not equal TJ for AD experience?? Even Jurich points out that it's unorthodox to NOT use a search firm (and remember he hired friggin Kragthorpe without the benefit of a search firm). Do we really, really want to chance it here?

 

[ruskin]

Do you really need someone to point out that WM does not equal TJ for AD experience??

Fabulous. Now the "Warde too inexperienced to do this right on his own" card is pulled. If Warde isn't bringing the following attitude to the job every single day we have the wrong man. He's got enough smarts and experience to pull this off.

I don't use search firms or search committees. I'm a search committee. It's Jurich and Jurich. That's it. I say it that way not to be facetious, but if I have somebody to blame, I look in the mirror. It's easier to keep yourself accountable than to be pointing fingers at search committees and all that. They don't know what I want.

"What I try to get out of a coach is I want somebody that has the same exact passion for the university as I do. I don't want it to ever be a job. If they come to Louisville to take a job, they're in the wrong place. It's got to be their passion. The epitome of it is coach (Rick) Pitino. He lives and dies Louisville. He loves Louisville. That's really worn off on all the coaches."

 

[huskymedic]

Fabulous. Now the "Warde too inexperienced to do this right on his own" card is pulled. If Warde isn't bringing the following attitude to the job every single day we have the wrong man. He's got enough smarts and experience to pull this off.

Nice try w/ that deflection... Jurich is well situated in his career and standing @ Louisville to be able to make a critical coaching decision in a vacuum. He may be a top 10 AD. WM is not (yet).

You're not convincing anyone that using every available resource is a bad decision on UConn's part. I said it before and I'll say it again - the final decision and responsibility still lies w/ WM. He owns it.

 

[BlueDogs]

that's cute... using your other login in id to create support.

BlueDog = Ruskin...

Nope. Different guy. Fascinating that you would jump to that.

My sole point is the corporate world and academic world are now dominated by consultants. Its a very powerful psychological phenomena where managers avoid responsibility through reliance on consultants. They want the pay but don't like being held accountable for their decisions. Consultants are necessary for complex technical areas where specific expertise which is not readily available is needed. I cannot bring myself to the conclusion that hiring a coach where your best guess at the end of the day is a best guess with no guaranteed outcome, requires a consultant.

 

[ZooCougar]

Fabulous. Now the "Warde too inexperienced to do this right on his own" card is pulled. If Warde isn't bringing the following attitude to the job every single day we have the wrong man. He's got enough smarts and experience to pull this off.

That's not what he is saying. I think the term "Search" is a misnomer in this case. Really what is happening is that this firm is assisting the school in developing best pool of qualified candidates that want the job. They can communicate on our behalf and have connections that can open doors that Warde may not be able to do on his own or may not want to altogether.

This all about doing due diligence as well. This is responsible, ask Pitt about how important that is.

Your reaction is obtuse and over the top on this. It's almost like you are arguing it for the sake of it.

Some of you guys think this is all about just making a big list and calling everyone. It's just not that simple. Fortune 500 businesses use search firms and head hunters to assist in filling executive vacancies, because it's more cost effective to go that route versus doing all of the legwork and selling themselves. When you do that you run the risk of being myopic and you miss out on opportunities.

Our athletic programs are in a perpetual state of recruiting, but if you don't think that the football and basketball coaches aren't consulting external recruiting and evaluation services then you are nuts.

Warde isn't in a perpetual state of hiring, and spending 50k is a cost effective means of gathering candidates and facts.

 

[Husky25]

Nope. Different guy. Fascinating that you would jump to that.

My sole point is the corporate world and academic world are now dominated by consultants. Its a very powerful psychological phenomena where managers avoid responsibility through reliance on consultants. They want the pay but don't like being held accountable for their decisions. Consultants are necessary for complex technical areas where specific expertise which is not readily available is needed. I cannot bring myself to the conclusion that hiring a coach where your best guess at the end of the day is a best guess with no guaranteed outcome, requires a consultant.

How many times and in how many ways does it have to be explained that the search firm is not making the decision? The search firm is responsible for the vetting of multiple candidates for the Athletic Director and his/her staff to interview. They are a tool in the process.

I would say that hiring a football coach in an ultra competitive environment with millions of dollars at stake is the very reason to hire a consulting firm. They have the very specific expertise that is not readily available to the average athletic department charged with running day-to-day administration.

 

[ruskin]

That's not what he is saying. I think the term "Search" is a misnomer in this case. Really what is happening is that this firm is assisting the school in developing best pool of qualified candidates that want the job. They can communicate on our behalf and have connections that can open doors that Warde may not be able to do on his own or may not want to altogether.

This all about doing due diligence as well. This is responsible, ask Pitt about how important that is.

Your reaction is obtuse and over the top on this. It's almost like you are arguing it for the sake of it.

Hold on. First, I agree you have to spend to vet the guy. I totally agree that "search" is a misnomer and said so in an earlier post -- I used the words "vetting firm". I'd bet Jurich had Strong vetted. And even vetting firms aren't 100 percent infallible.

But I find an example of the most successful AD of our time who did it the way I would like to see Warde do it -- identify a candidate on his own without spending money -- and people are still coming at me both barrels. Who's being 'obtuse' there?

You know, Joe Maddon used to be considered "unorthodox" for his defensive shifts against Ortiz and others and now everyone does it. Maybe other ADs can follow Jurich in the same way.

We have a very recent example of a search firm FAIL and yet people think it's the only way a coach can be hired.

BTW would love to see the work product that the 2011 search firm gave UConn and what, if anything, they said about P. Always been curious how P was "recruited", if it was in or outside the search firm process. Gonna guess not, than Hathaway and McHugh went around them on that one.

 

[ZooCougar]

It's not the only way. But it seems to be a standard tool that ADs use these days.

Citing Hathaway's use of one doesn't help your argument. He was a bad AD who made a bad hire. I doubt heavily that Neinas was shoving Pasqualoni down our throats.

It's a cost effective means of building a pool of qualified candidates. They don't tell Warde who to hire. If anything Warde put a wish list together and they are finding candidates of similar profiles that he may not have considered.

 

[ruskin]

I doubt heavily that Neinas was shoving Pasqualoni down our throats..

Sort of my point on that one. In that case it appears money was spent because "everybody does it" and we got zero in return. Like I said, curious if P's name was even in the "binder" given to Hathaway.

 

[ZooCougar]

Sort of my point on that one. In that case it appears money was spent because "everybody does it" and we got zero in return. Like I said, curious if P's name was even in the "binder" given to Hathaway.

That's not why the money is spent and nobody is saying it. What people are saying is that it's more complex than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.

Strong was Lousiville's first choice and by all accounts that was mutual. Good for them. Our situation is more competitive.

You're just being contrarian now.

 

[ruskin]

That's not why the money is spent and nobody is saying it. What people are saying is that it's more complex than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.

Strong was Lousiville's first choice and by all accounts that was mutual. Good for them. Our situation is more competitive.

You're just being contrarian now.

On UConn use of search firm in 2011: are we agreed UConn derived no benefit from spending the money to hire one in that case -- almost entirely through Hathaway's incompetence (and McHugh's meddling)?

On Strong hiring scenario at Louisville: He was hired almost four years ago (Dec. 9, 2009). Let's compare U of Ls position of strength then compared to UConn's now. Everything considered (bad conference, good facilities, decent TV market, ability to pay), do you think UConn is so weak now it can't hire its first-choice guy as Louisville did?

 

[ZooCougar]

On UConn use of search firm in 2011: are we agreed UConn derived no benefit from spending the money to hire one in that case -- almost entirely through Hathaway's incompetence (and McHugh's meddling)?

On Strong hiring scenario at Louisville: He was hired almost four years ago (Dec. 9, 2009). Let's compare U of Ls position of strength then compared to UConn's now. Everything considered (bad conference, good facilities, decent TV market, ability to pay), do you think UConn is so weak now it can't hire its first-choice guy as Louisville did?

On your last point, that seems self evident doesn't it? But really you're just a quibbling contrarian at this point.

 

[ruskin]

On your last point, that seems self evident doesn't it? But really you're just a quibbling contrarian at this point.

I'll assume you agree UConn derived no value from paying 50K or whatever it was for the last search since you skipped over that one. Money wasted.

I'm also going to assume you believe UConn is in a much weaker position in December 2013 than Louisville was in Dec. 2009. I don't think it's as "self-evident" as you proclaim. I say slightly weakerh. If Warde finds his version of Charlie Strong or has him in mind already there's no reason why he needs a search firm to help him. Spending an extra 50-100K in that scenario is wasteful. Whatever the fee is for a thorough vetting, that's cool with me.

 

[ZooCougar]

It doesn't matter if it was wasted or not... It actually bears no relevance to this situation simply because we have a different AD.

And I don't see how you have indicated anything that proves that it will be a waste of money this time. The AD is the executive and he has decided that it is necessary.

 

[uconnbill]

Then rest easy, he's not paying them to come up with the names. There is soooo much more going on than just sourcing the names here.

Agreed this is about background checks and looking at how these would be coaches work under difficult situations. They don't want to make the same mistake they did three years ago, this time around.

 

[junglehusky]

Are we really arguing about dropping $50k (or being generous, even $100k) in terms of a multimillion dollar operation? When the right hire could maybe (maaaaaybe) help UConn get into a P5 conference and many millions more in TV revenue???

 

[CTMike]

Ruskin would say that the sun isn't coming up tomorrow because a) the sun isn't up right now, and b) he once woke up when it was still dark.

Not even worth trying to convince him that UConn is going about it the right way (they 100% are). He will believe whatever he wants, no matter how illogical.

 

[TRest]

I'll assume you agree UConn derived no value from paying 50K or whatever it was for the last search since you skipped over that one. Money wasted.

I'm also going to assume you believe UConn is in a much weaker position in December 2013 than Louisville was in Dec. 2009. I don't think it's as "self-evident" as you proclaim. I say slightly weakerh. If Warde finds his version of Charlie Strong or has him in mind already there's no reason why he needs a search firm to help him. Spending an extra 50-100K in that scenario is wasteful. Whatever the fee is for a thorough vetting, that's cool with me.

UL was a BCS job in 2009.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Nope. Different guy. Fascinating that you would jump to that.

My sole point is the corporate world and academic world are now dominated by consultants. Its a very powerful psychological phenomena where managers avoid responsibility through reliance on consultants. They want the pay but don't like being held accountable for their decisions. Consultants are necessary for complex or technical areas where specific expertise which is not readily available is needed. I cannot bring myself to the conclusion that hiring a coach where your best guess at the end of the day is a best guess with no guaranteed outcome, requires a consultant.

worked with many consultants. none were paid to make decisions. they were paid to provide valuable information on highly technical or detailed topics where their experience was critical.
they were paid for unbiased and dispassionate input into the decision making process. if i went to my leadership blaming some consultants for a bad decision they would replace me and the consultants.
the notion that todays managers use consultants to prevent accountability is not anything ive experienced in corporate america.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Ruskin would say that the sun isn't coming up tomorrow because a) the sun isn't up right now, and b) he once woke up when it was still dark.

Not even worth trying to convince him that UConn is going about it the right way (they 100% are). He will believe whatever he wants, no matter how illogical.

he and blue dog...