OT- Peyton

[Deepster]

Yeah why not, go for it.

1. First and foremost, as mentioned, he's 11-13 with 9 one and done efforts.
   
2. Of those 9 one and dones, 6 of them were home games.
3. In his 3 Super Bowl Appearances, he's averaged 30 for 44 for 287 yds, 1 TD and 1.33 INT.
4. His 3 Super Bowls are:
   
   31 for 45, 333 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT (W over Chi)
   25 for 38, 247 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT (L to NO)
   34 for 49, 280 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT (L to Sea)
   
   In those two losses, his Pick 6 to Darren Sharper against NO and his awful half against Seattle last year are flat out playoff gag jobs. FYI - The first half against Seattle, Denver's drives were Safety, Punt, Int, Int, Turnover on Downs. Coming off a year he threw for 55 TD's and 5,477 yds.
5. He has lost, at home, to Mark Sanchez, Chad Pennington and Jay Fiedler. His SB win was against Rex Grossman.
6. Since his SB win in 2006, he's 4-7 in the postseason with FIVE one and done efforts (4 of those were at home).

What am I missing? Overall his performance dips statistically. The one and dones, especially at home, go against the odds and home field advantage in the postseason. His big game performances have been flat out BAD on the biggest stage. He's lost to lesser QB led teams.

Let's flip the switch. Give me a couple postseason highlights or memorable moments he's famous for? What is his signature postseason calling card? There aren't any.

 

[superjohn]

1. First and foremost, as mentioned, he's 11-13 with 9 one and done efforts.
   
2. Of those 9 one and dones, 6 of them were home games.
3. In his 3 Super Bowl Appearances, he's averaged 30 for 44 for 287 yds, 1 TD and 1.33 INT.
4. His 3 Super Bowls are:
   
   31 for 45, 333 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT (W over Chi)
   25 for 38, 247 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT (L to NO)
   34 for 49, 280 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT (L to Sea)
   
   In those two losses, his Pick 6 to Darren Sharper against NO and his awful half against Seattle last year are flat out playoff gag jobs. FYI - The first half against Seattle, Denver's drives were Safety, Punt, Int, Int, Turnover on Downs. Coming off a year he threw for 55 TD's and 5,477 yds.
5. He has lost, at home, to Mark Sanchez, Chad Pennington and Jay Fiedler. His SB win was against Rex Grossman.
6. Since his SB win in 2006, he's 4-7 in the postseason with FIVE one and done efforts (4 of those were at home).

What am I missing? Overall his performance dips statistically. The one and dones, especially at home, go against the odds and home field advantage in the postseason. His big game performances have been flat out BAD on the biggest stage. He's lost to lesser QB led teams.

Let's flip the switch. Give me a couple postseason highlights or memorable moments he's famous for? What is his signature postseason calling card? There aren't any.

As you point out postseason play matters, just another way Jeter crushes Biggio.

 

[Robertelamin]

1. First and foremost, as mentioned, he's 11-13 with 9 one and done efforts.
   
2. Of those 9 one and dones, 6 of them were home games.
3. In his 3 Super Bowl Appearances, he's averaged 30 for 44 for 287 yds, 1 TD and 1.33 INT.
4. His 3 Super Bowls are:
   
   31 for 45, 333 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT (W over Chi)
   25 for 38, 247 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT (L to NO)
   34 for 49, 280 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT (L to Sea)
   
   In those two losses, his Pick 6 to Darren Sharper against NO and his awful half against Seattle last year are flat out playoff gag jobs. FYI - The first half against Seattle, Denver's drives were Safety, Punt, Int, Int, Turnover on Downs. Coming off a year he threw for 55 TD's and 5,477 yds.
5. He has lost, at home, to Mark Sanchez, Chad Pennington and Jay Fiedler. His SB win was against Rex Grossman.
6. Since his SB win in 2006, he's 4-7 in the postseason with FIVE one and done efforts (4 of those were at home).

What am I missing? Overall his performance dips statistically. The one and dones, especially at home, go against the odds and home field advantage in the postseason. His big game performances have been flat out BAD on the biggest stage. He's lost to lesser QB led teams.

Let's flip the switch. Give me a couple postseason highlights or memorable moments he's famous for? What is his signature postseason calling card? There aren't any.

I'm not a Manning fan so I don't care but at least I got you to spend time researching and posting that.

 

[David 76]

Yeah, Marino and Peyton really suck.
To me, all you have to look at was how bad the Colts were when Peyton was injured (or first left). He held them together.
Was he like Montana in the playoffs? No. But he won a Super Bowl and put his team in the post season every year. He and Marino are clearly among the best and you could argue that either one of them is the best. Regardless.

 

[upstater]

Yeah, Marino and Peyton really suck.
To me, all you have to look at was how bad the Colts were when Peyton was injured (or first left). He held them together.
Was he like Montana in the playoffs? No. But he won a Super Bowl and put his team in the post season every year. He and Marino are clearly among the best and you could argue that either one of them is the best. Regardless.

They tanked that season to get Luck.

When they secured the #1, they replaced Painter with UConn's own Dan Orlovsky, and he went 2-0 with them. So a rookie Luck comes in, first year, and they win 11 games.

Guess what? 11 games is more than Peyton Manning's Colts won the year before they landed the #1 pick.

 

[UConn990411]

Yeah, Marino and Peyton really suck.
To me, all you have to look at was how bad the Colts were when Peyton was injured (or first left). He held them together.
Was he like Montana in the playoffs? No. But he won a Super Bowl and put his team in the post season every year. He and Marino are clearly among the best and you could argue that either one of them is the best. Regardless.

There's no argument that either Manning or Marino were the best ever. None.

 

[David 76]

Add Favre to the sucks list, Elway almost sucked, Or are you a better QB if you don't make the playoffs regularly? Then your percentages will look better for people who look at stats.
Poor Marino always thought he had to win 1 Super Bowl to convince the haters. Guess he would have needed 2.
I'm not counting Peyton out. He needs to heal and he is still better than most. A top 5 or 10 QB all time.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Every time I hear Tony Dungy talk about anything, I'm amazed that Peyton was able to win as much as he did with that clown as a head coach.

This is a highly under-discussed aspect of the Brady vs. Manning debate.

Put Manning with Belicheck and those Patriot teams and how many SBs do they win? 5? 6?

Saddle Brady with the sad-sack coaches that Peyton has had to deal with (Jim Mora, Tony Dungy -- nice guy, but not a sharp coach, Jim Caldwell), and does he even win 1?

 

[Mots010]

1. 
   
2. He has lost, at home, to Mark Sanchez, Chad Pennington and Jay Fiedler. His SB win was against Rex Grossman.

Let's flip the switch. Give me a couple postseason highlights or memorable moments he's famous for? What is his signature postseason calling card? There aren't any.

That's kind of weak. The QB isn't playing the other QB. To play that game, Tom Brady has lost to Mark Sanchez, Jake Plummer and twice to Joe Flacco (once before Flacco sold his soul to the devil in 2012). Brady missed the playoffs to the Jets and Pennington in 2002. Eli Manning? There's a chance he's played the last playoff game of his career already.

Calling card? You kind of glossed over that 2006 playoff. After he threw that pick 6 to Asante Sameul, he was pretty good in that comeback from from the 21-3 deficit against the clutchiest of the clutch, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. I guess they didn't 'create enough luck' for themselves.

I dont disagree he isn't a great playoff QB, but lets not go crazy here.

 

[champs99and04]

This is a highly under-discussed aspect of the Brady vs. Manning debate.

Put Manning with Belicheck and those Patriot teams and how many SBs do they win? 5? 6?

Saddle Brady with the sad-sack coaches that Peyton has had to deal with (Jim Mora, Tony Dungy -- nice guy, but not a sharp coach, Jim Caldwell), and does he even win 1?

I don't necessarily agree that Manning would win five or six titles with Belicheck but you're certainly right that this is a frequently neglected facet of the argument.

 

[UConn990411]

This is a highly under-discussed aspect of the Brady vs. Manning debate.

Put Manning with Belicheck and those Patriot teams and how many SBs do they win? 5? 6?

Saddle Brady with the sad-sack coaches that Peyton has had to deal with (Jim Mora, Tony Dungy -- nice guy, but not a sharp coach, Jim Caldwell), and does he even win 1?

Lol.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

They tanked that season to get Luck.

When they secured the #1, they replaced Painter with UConn's own Dan Orlovsky, and he went 2-0 with them. So a rookie Luck comes in, first year, and they win 11 games.

Guess what? 11 games is more than Peyton Manning's Colts won the year before they landed the #1 pick.

Absurd post. It's the nfl. Teams can't tank like you can in the NBA. They "tanked" because peyton got hurt and therefore they sucked. I don't remember them having a fire sale like the Knicks currently are.

The colts won 12 or 13 games every single year for a decade including two potential perfect seasons had it not been for resting guys. Peyton gets hurt and they start 0-14. Coincidence? I think not. And ironically, those two wins you point out were against teams that were resting guys to move up (jags I think and maybe houston) in the last two weeks of the year when "tanking" actually does exist (not for 16 Games).

I would in no way argue that peyton is clutch. But people are crazy for trying to bash him for stinking against an all time great d and yesterday when he's 40 and washed up and playing with a bad leg when he had zero arm strength to begin with and relied almost entirely on his legs. He couldn't even throw a football three years ago and he comes back and wuddya know right away his team wins 13 Games and he's as good as ever. Next year he has the best season ever for a qb in his second year.

He basically never had a good defense. In fact most of them on the colts were downright awful. Let's not forget brady still hasn't won without a top notch d. And the year he went down the pats won 11 games with Matt friggin cassel. Brady is great but belichick is a genius (ask the Ravens) and in my opinion the best coach ever without a doubt. Brady gets too much credit and manning gets way too much heat

Peyton ushered in the new pass heavy open offense uptempo nfl. Barely anyone ever threw 4000 yards before him and now half the guys in the league do including ryan tannehill for God sakes. Manning changed the nfl similar to how jordan changed the NBA where big men no longer exist and everyone wants to play like he did. Finding a qb is basically he sole purpose of every organization and without one you have no chance.

in summary peyton is great. Best ever? Certainty not in the playoffs. But definitely a top 5 qb and anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts

 

[UConn990411]

He basically never had a good defense. In fact most of them on the colts were downright awful. Let's not forget brady still hasn't won without a top notch d. And the year he went down the pats won 11 games with Matt friggin cassel. Brady is great but belichick is a genius (ask the Ravens) and in my opinion the best coach ever without a doubt. Brady gets too much credit and manning gets way too much heat

And out of all the phony Peyton defenses, this one is the phoniest.

He played with plenty of bad defenses, but he also played with several good ones. Here's how the Colts defenses ranked from 1999-2010, and how they fared in the postseason:

1999 - 17th (lost Div)
2000 - 15th (lost WC)
2001 - 31st (missed playoffs)
2002 - 7th (lost WC)
2003 - 20th (lost Conf)
2004 - 19th (lost Div)
2005 - 2nd (lost Div)
2006 - 23rd (won SB)
2007 - 1st (lost Div)
2008 - 7th (lost WC)
2009 - 8th (lost SB)
2010 - 23rd (lost WC)

I'm by no means a Peyton hater - he's without a doubt one of the three or four best QBs to ever play the game, and I'm going to miss watching the guy when he finally hangs 'em up.

I just think it's bizarre how he gets such a big pass from fans and the media alike for how small he's come up in the postseason on a regular basis. No, I don't think he was the only reason - or even the biggest reason - the Colts consistently underachieved, but he was part of the problem.

 

[Mots010]

I just think it's bizarre how he gets such a big pass from fans and the media alike for how small he's come up in the postseason on a regular basis..

He's probably the most criticized qb in the history of the game for his post season performances.

 

[upstater]

Absurd post. It's the nfl. Teams can't tank like you can in the NBA. They "tanked" because peyton got hurt and therefore they sucked. I don't remember them having a fire sale like the Knicks currently are.

The colts won 12 or 13 games every single year for a decade including two potential perfect seasons had it not been for resting guys. Peyton gets hurt and they start 0-14. Coincidence? I think not. And ironically, those two wins you point out were against teams that were resting guys to move up (jags I think and maybe houston) in the last two weeks of the year when "tanking" actually does exist (not for 16 Games).

I would in no way argue that peyton is clutch. But people are crazy for trying to bash him for stinking against an all time great d and yesterday when he's 40 and washed up and playing with a bad leg when he had zero arm strength to begin with and relied almost entirely on his legs. He couldn't even throw a football three years ago and he comes back and wuddya know right away his team wins 13 Games and he's as good as ever. Next year he has the best season ever for a qb in his second year.

He basically never had a good defense. In fact most of them on the colts were downright awful. Let's not forget brady still hasn't won without a top notch d. And the year he went down the pats won 11 games with Matt friggin cassel. Brady is great but belichick is a genius (ask the Ravens) and in my opinion the best coach ever without a doubt. Brady gets too much credit and manning gets way too much heat

Peyton ushered in the new pass heavy open offense uptempo nfl. Barely anyone ever threw 4000 yards before him and now half the guys in the league do including ryan tannehill for God sakes. Manning changed the nfl similar to how jordan changed the NBA where big men no longer exist and everyone wants to play like he did. Finding a qb is basically he sole purpose of every organization and without one you have no chance.

in summary peyton is great. Best ever? Certainty not in the playoffs. But definitely a top 5 qb and anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts

In the NFL, you can TANK easier than the NBA. There is no lottery.

Curtis Painter never did anything before and after. He was awful.

They tanked for Andrew Luck. We all know this. You guys who keep talking about the huge drop in wins never answer this when I ask: a rookie QB came into your 0-14 team and he lead them to MORE wins than Peyton had the year before the 0-14.

That means nothing to you?

As for uptempo, that all changed in 2004, and it wasn't because of Peyton. It was because of the point of emphasis rules change. After that rules change, the very next year, Peyton's TDs went from 26 to 49. And many QBs after that experienced success.

 

[upstater]

Let's not forget brady still hasn't won without a top notch d. And the year he went down the pats won 11 games with Matt friggin cassel. Brady is great but belichick is a genius (ask the Ravens) and in my opinion the best coach ever without a doubt. Brady gets too much credit and manning gets way too much heat

It's the reverse. Brady gets little credit and Peyton gets way too much.

You must have missed the 2003 Super Bowl when the vaunted Patriots defense gave up 29 points in less than 31 minutes. Brady had to throw for one of the highest yardage totals in Super Bowl history, mid 300s, to win that game. But you guys will only credit the D, which got shredded, even though the QB was awesome that day. In fact, you'll even credit the kicker over Brady (I've heard that one a million times) even though the guy missed 2 chip shot field goals.

As for Matt Cassell, the Patriots went from 18 wins the year before to 11. They dropped 7 years. And it was a schedule so weak, that 11-5 wasn't good enough to get them in the playoffs. If they'd managed to win another game against a playoff team, they would have been in, but they just couldn't knock anyone off. As for Cassel, by the way, he went on to post career passing yardage and QB rating highs, AND to make the Pro Bowl, for Kansas City--AFTER he left the Patriots. Yes, Cassel had better numbers at KC than with NE. That's a fact.

 

[John]

I don't know enough about the NFL to talk about greatest or choke-job artist, ect, all I know is the guy is fun to watch.

 

[Deepster]

Calling card? You kind of glossed over that 2006 playoff. After he threw that pick 6 to Asante Sameul, he was pretty good in that comeback from from the 21-3 deficit against the clutchiest of the clutch, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. I guess they didn't 'create enough luck' for themselves.

In 14 seasons and including 24 postseason games, that's his defining moment? I barely remember anything about it. Safe to say, it's no Montana to Clark moment.

 

[upstater]

In 14 seasons and including 24 postseason games, that's his defining moment? I barely remember anything about it. Safe to say, it's no Montana to Clark moment.

He played great that game. For many Patriots fans, that game actually hurts more than the Super Bowl losses. The SB losses were deserved, but every once in a while, a game comes along and it gives you a sick feeling for what occurred in all facets. That game was it for a lot of Patriots fans.

 

[Scoe]

Absurd post. It's the nfl. Teams can't tank like you can in the NBA. They "tanked" because peyton got hurt and therefore they sucked. I don't remember them having a fire sale like the Knicks currently are.

The colts won 12 or 13 games every single year for a decade including two potential perfect seasons had it not been for resting guys. Peyton gets hurt and they start 0-14. Coincidence? I think not. And ironically, those two wins you point out were against teams that were resting guys to move up (jags I think and maybe houston) in the last two weeks of the year when "tanking" actually does exist (not for 16 Games).

I would in no way argue that peyton is clutch. But people are crazy for trying to bash him for stinking against an all time great d and yesterday when he's 40 and washed up and playing with a bad leg when he had zero arm strength to begin with and relied almost entirely on his legs. He couldn't even throw a football three years ago and he comes back and wuddya know right away his team wins 13 Games and he's as good as ever. Next year he has the best season ever for a qb in his second year.

He basically never had a good defense. In fact most of them on the colts were downright awful. Let's not forget brady still hasn't won without a top notch d. And the year he went down the pats won 11 games with Matt friggin cassel. Brady is great but belichick is a genius (ask the Ravens) and in my opinion the best coach ever without a doubt. Brady gets too much credit and manning gets way too much heat


Peyton ushered in the new pass heavy open offense uptempo nfl. Barely anyone ever threw 4000 yards before him and now half the guys in the league do including ryan tannehill for God sakes. Manning changed the nfl similar to how jordan changed the NBA where big men no longer exist and everyone wants to play like he did. Finding a qb is basically he sole purpose of every organization and without one you have no chance.

in summary peyton is great. Best ever? Certainty not in the playoffs. But definitely a top 5 qb and anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts

Peytons legacy will be even bigger after he retires, he changed the passing across the NFL, as well as college (except for Uconn of course go figure) and high school, even in the Madden Video games. It appears Dan O knows Peyton pretty well maybe if Dan O is our HC one day he can hire Peyton as qb coach lol.

 

[Mazhude]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/11/denver-broncos-indianapolis-colts-peyton-manning-2014-nfl-playoffs

Not even 24 hours after a one-and-done playoff appearance, the Broncos and coach John Fox have parted ways. Given that Elway seems to want to shake things up, this does not bode well for Gase as the next coach, and so maybe for Peyton Manning as well. Payton likes continuity and does he really want to learn and have a team work through a new system at this point in his career?

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's the reverse. Brady gets little credit and Peyton gets way too much.

You must have missed the 2003 Super Bowl when the vaunted Patriots defense gave up 29 points in less than 31 minutes. Brady had to throw for one of the highest yardage totals in Super Bowl history, mid 300s, to win that game. But you guys will only credit the D, which got shredded, even though the QB was awesome that day. In fact, you'll even credit the kicker over Brady (I've heard that one a million times) even though the guy missed 2 chip shot field goals.

As for Matt Cassell, the Patriots went from 18 wins the year before to 11. They dropped 7 years. And it was a schedule so weak, that 11-5 wasn't good enough to get them in the playoffs. If they'd managed to win another game against a playoff team, they would have been in, but they just couldn't knock anyone off. As for Cassel, by the way, he went on to post career passing yardage and QB rating highs, AND to make the Pro Bowl, for Kansas City--AFTER he left the Patriots. Yes, Cassel had better numbers at KC than with NE. That's a fact.

All QBs get too much credit. That's the reality. Brady too. He's been great, certainly among the best ever, same as Peyton, Marino, Montana. An under appreciated key to these players is whether the team builds an offense to suit their skills. Both Brady and Manning would have been worse playing for each other's teams, because both offenses were designed for the QBs. Russell Wilson can win in Seattle because he doesn't need to do much. His skills open up the running game, and avoid putting that defense in a position to defend a short field.

If Belichick deserves credit for anything, it is identifying players for his systems. Too many teams, especially those with frequent management turnover, are terrible at it.

 

[upstater]

All QBs get too much credit. That's the reality. Brady too. He's been great, certainly among the best ever, same as Peyton, Marino, Montana. An under appreciated key to these players is whether the team builds an offense to suit their skills. Both Brady and Manning would have been worse playing for each other's teams, because both offenses were designed for the QBs. Russell Wilson can win in Seattle because he doesn't need to do much. His skills open up the running game, and avoid putting that defense in a position to defend a short field.

If Belichick deserves credit for anything, it is identifying players for his systems. Too many teams, especially those with frequent management turnover, are terrible at it.

As they say, it's a QBs game.

You can have all world guys, like in Buffalo with that defense. But with Orton behind center, you go nowehre.

Belichick has figured out that with a good QB, you can basically pick up WRs and OL off the street (because the QB will make the WRs better, and the OL just needs to hold a block for 2 seconds), while putting your resources into the defense.

Defenses must play team football.

On offense, it's all about the QB. I firmly believe this.

I've seen too many David Pattens, David Givenses, Deion Branches, Reche Caldwells, Donte Stallworths, Jabar Gaffneys, and now Brandon LaFells have huge success in New England, while they were average at best elsewhere. Heck, Caldwell was a street free agent.

Then you look at the interior OL. You have people like Peter King lauding them for giving Brady time, and others have said the New England OL is spectacular, but the guys playing against Baltimore this week are street free agents, undrafteds, castoffs. Heck, Josh Kline might be the worst guard in all of football. But when your QB is getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds, and placing it in precise pot for maximum YAC, then you can get away with just about anyone playing interior OL.

 

[noeynox]

As they say, it's a QBs game.

You can have all world guys, like in Buffalo with that defense. But with Orton behind center, you go nowehre.

Belichick has figured out that with a good QB, you can basically pick up WRs and OL off the street (because the QB will make the WRs better, and the OL just needs to hold a block for 2 seconds), while putting your resources into the defense.

Defenses must play team football.

On offense, it's all about the QB. I firmly believe this.

I've seen too many David Pattens, David Givenses, Deion Branches, Reche Caldwells, Donte Stallworths, Jabar Gaffneys, and now Brandon LaFells have huge success in New England, while they were average at best elsewhere. Heck, Caldwell was a street free agent.

Then you look at the interior OL. You have people like Peter King lauding them for giving Brady time, and others have said the New England OL is spectacular, but the guys playing against Baltimore this week are street free agents, undrafteds, castoffs. Heck, Josh Kline might be the worst guard in all of football. But when your QB is getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds, and placing it in precise pot for maximum YAC, then you can get away with just about anyone playing interior OL.

We have a winner. David Givens and Dion Branch did nothing when they left the Pats. I think because of Belichek, people are reluctant to give Brady credit, but in Cleveland, and one season with Bledsoe as the starter, BB was less than a HOF. The one constant has been Brady. He walked off the field late in the game in both SB losses to the Giants just having given his team the lead and his defenses couldn't finish it. It's why I give Eli so much credit. He had to engineer game winning drives late in the fourth quarter two times in the MOST pressured filled game of all and did so against Brady and the Pats.

 

[champs99and04]

This idea that Brady doesn't need good receivers and o-lineman to be successful is pretty strange. Every quarterback does.