OT - Giants HC search (Update: Hiring Ben McAdoo)

[intlzncster]

That's strange. Gotta give Lovie more than two years.

That's the way of the NFL now man. It's totally ridiculous, and it definitely doesn't work, but look at a lot of the firings lately: Tomsula 1 year. Doug Marrone 1.5 years. Mike Pettine 2 years. Chip Kelly 2.5 years, but only 1 picking his own players. And so on.

Personally, I think you've got to put a lot of time into finding the right guy, in concert with the right GM, and give them 6 years. jmo though.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I would like Lovie as a coach for us, been around for a while and did pretty well with the bears

 

[tcf15]

I would like Lovie as a coach for us, been around for a while and did pretty well with the bears

Think he interviewed with the Giants back when they fired Fassell, so there is some history there.

 

[mauconnfan]

Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but this doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't all of the guys with the final say on the hire at the very least interview the candidates?

I would think and I haven't even received a phone call yet. Strange

 

[tcf15]

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/ben_mcadoo_file_what_questions_he_must_answer_from.html

What he does have working in his favor is that McAdoo is viewed as the "next Andy Reid," according to one NFL source. That's not a bad comparison. Reid was 41 when he was an unknown plucked off the Green Bay Packers staff by the Eagles in 1999. He has 171 career coaching wins and led his teams to the playoffs 11 times.

I asked more than a dozen current and former players (off the record) what they thought of McAdoo as a head coach. Not one had questions about whether he was too young for the job or could command a room.

Here's a sampling of some of the terms used to describe the head coaching candidate:

"Gets along well with guys."

"Good teacher."

"Innovative." "Has leadership qualities."

"Can control the team"

"Great guy."

"Winner."

"Puts in the work."

"Assertive."

"Knows how to relay a message."

"Knows how to control the room."

"Never flinches. Never blinks."

"Approachable."

 

[Ts5034]

At this point, I would be very shocked if McAdoo is not the coach. The Giants obviously think very highly of him and I dont think they want to take the chance of losing him to another organization.

 

[FDNY99]

That's the way of the NFL now man. It's totally ridiculous, and it definitely doesn't work, but look at a lot of the firings lately: Tomsula 1 year. Doug Marrone 1.5 years. Mike Pettine 2 years. Chip Kelly 2.5 years, but only 1 picking his own players. And so on.

Personally, I think you've got to put a lot of time into finding the right guy, in concert with the right GM, and give them 6 years. jmo though.

Morrone didn't get fired..he exercised a clause in his contract and basically quit/walked away from his job in Buffalo.

 

[intlzncster]

Morrone didn't get fired..he exercised a clause in his contract and basically quit/walked away from his job in Buffalo.

Yeah, that likes a "mutual" resignation. Guys don't just walk away from lucrative position at the top of their profession for sh_ts and giggles. Coughlin "resigned" too, although everybody knows he was being fired.

 

[intlzncster]

I would think and I haven't even received a phone call yet. Strange

Once they retained Reese, you were duckcked.

 

[intlzncster]

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/ben_mcadoo_file_what_questions_he_must_answer_from.html

What he does have working in his favor is that McAdoo is viewed as the "next Andy Reid," according to one NFL source. That's not a bad comparison. Reid was 41 when he was an unknown plucked off the Green Bay Packers staff by the Eagles in 1999. He has 171 career coaching wins and led his teams to the playoffs 11 times.

I asked more than a dozen current and former players (off the record) what they thought of McAdoo as a head coach. Not one had questions about whether he was too young for the job or could command a room.

Here's a sampling of some of the terms used to describe the head coaching candidate:

"Gets along well with guys."

"Good teacher."

"Innovative." "Has leadership qualities."

"Can control the team"

"Great guy."

"Winner."

"Puts in the work."

"Assertive."

"Knows how to relay a message."

"Knows how to control the room."

"Never flinches. Never blinks."

"Approachable."

Owners/GMs seem more interested in people skills these days, rather than actually being able to coach (or manage a roster). The number of times I've heard 'people skills' as high on the list lately is absurd. It's not that important if you are a great coach. Does a guy have to learn to get along somewhat? Sure, McDaniels and Kelly proved that, but it's still an overrated requirement on the list of things you want.

If fact, many of the best coaches aren't all that great (or are 'different') with people. BB, Jim Harbaugh, Coughlin, Parcells, ect. Some need to learn to meet somewhere closer to the middles, ie Kelly, but he's still a great coach.

 

[FDNY99]

Yeah, that likes a "mutual" resignation. Guys don't just walk away from lucrative position at the top of their profession for sh_ts and giggles. Coughlin "resigned" too, although everybody knows he was being fired.

He thought he was going to get the Jet job...over played his hand...Bills didn't know he was gonna opt out. It was pretty well reported on last season...

 

[Jerry1714]

Yeah, that likes a "mutual" resignation. Guys don't just walk away from lucrative position at the top of their profession for sh_ts and giggles. Coughlin "resigned" too, although everybody knows he was being fired.

I would not say that, he had a clause that if ownership changed he could walk away, and he did, he did it because he wanted and thought he would get the Jets job. Bad miscalculation, but he will be a HC next season somewhere.

 

[intlzncster]

I would not say that, he had a clause that if ownership changed he could walk away, and he did, he did it because he wanted and thought he would get the Jets job. Bad miscalculation, but he will be a HC next season somewhere.

He thought he was going to get the Jet job...over played his hand...Bills didn't know he was gonna opt out. It was pretty well reported on last season...

I'll take that as you say, but I've no idea how much spin that is. One thing I do know, is that spin in the NFL is so much more prevalent than any other professional sport. It's practically politics.

That said, how do you guys know the new Bills ownership truly wanted Marrone? I hate to post this guy as a source, as he's a complete rube, but there's this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...arrone-not-well-liked-bills-article-1.2064861

 

[FDNY99]

I'll take that as you say, but I've no idea how much spin that is. One thing I do know, is that spin in the NFL is so much more prevalent than any other professional sport. It's practically politics.

That said, how do you guys know the new Bills ownership truly wanted Marrone? I hate to post this guy as a source, as he's a complete rube, but there's this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...arrone-not-well-liked-bills-article-1.2064861

I really don't know why he is on the NYG list...as a NYG fan if Mara tries to sell Marrone as the new HC..I will be an ex-NYG fan. Same with McDaniels....if they decided to interview and hire him..they should have kept TC.

 

[intlzncster]

they should have kept TC.

That I agree with. I know many Giants fans wanted to move on, but I'd have kept TC and fired Reese and see how that worked out for the next 3-4 years or so.

 

[KembaStepback]

The more I think about it, between reese and coughlin, there should have been two options IMO.

1. Keep Both
2. Fire Both

By firing coughlin... If Reese screws the pooch on the roster for next yr..he could be fired. Then they'll bring in a new GM, who will want a new HC. If the fired Reese and kept TC, the GM would want a new coach. So I think it should have been both or neither.

 

[intlzncster]

By firing coughlin... If Reese screws the pooch on the roster for next yr..he could be fired. Then they'll bring in a new GM, who will want a new HC. If the fired Reese and kept TC, the GM would want a new coach. So I think it should have been both or neither.

Can't necessarily argue with that. There's nothing wrong with it. But you could keep Coughlin if, when hiring a new GM, you get a guy who actually does want him as coach. Coughlin's proven himself, and that's important, as most other guys they could get have not. Then it might be, fire the coach in a few years, but continue with Reese (read mediocrity).

I think the Giants could do well taking a look at Matt Patricia. He's the real deal. A guy who truly had to work his way up from the bottom. I read a great article on him in December, but Mike Reiss linked it again recently. Some might have interest:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2015/12/how_matt_patricia_engineers_patriots_defense

He's got 'smartest guy in the room', humbleness and people skills. He's coached both sides of the ball at many different positions. I really think he's going to be an impact coach in the future.

 

[Jerry1714]

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/the_research_jerry_reese_wanted_it_and_the_giants.html

Draft "hits" from 2007-13 in Rounds 3-7:

(Note: It usually takes three seasons to be able to accurately assess a draft so 2014-15 was not calculated.)

1. Packers – 14
2. Dolphins – 13
T-3. Panthers – 12
T. 28 Giants – 6

Only the Redskins had fewer "hits" than the Giants since Reese took over as general manager.

No fan with a brain can defend Reese's GM abilities or his behavior at the season ending presser. Good for Raanan showing facts to this fool Reese who delusionaly thinks he has done an adequate job. I fear no matter who we hire will be coaching with one hand tied behind his back due to the players Reese will give him

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Perhaps. I don't know the exact details. Just what I've read over the years. I do know that McDaniels pushed hard for him, and Tebow wouldn't have been drafted if McDaniels didn't want him in the first place.

I'm sure they kept Tebow because what else were they going to do with him? No one else seemed to want him much. They spent a 1st rounder on him. Didn't really have any other option. And then he even won a playoff game.

As an aside: here's McDaniel's on learning from his Denver experience:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/c...-mcdaniels-admits-mistakes-when-broncos-coach

I'm sure McDaniels did want Tebow, but given what his stature was within the organization and the fact the team kept and started Tebow after says to me that there were other people in the FO that were on that Tebow train.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm sure McDaniels did want Tebow, but given what his stature was within the organization and the fact the team kept and started Tebow after says to me that there were other people in the FO that were on that Tebow train.

Perhaps; I'm not arguing there isn't. But it is notoriously (read impossible) difficult for a team to eat a first round draft pick after only one season.

 

[Mots010]

I'm sure McDaniels did want Tebow, but given what his stature was within the organization and the fact the team kept and started Tebow after says to me that there were other people in the FO that were on that Tebow train.

McDaniels' failures in Denver are well documented, and if I'm an NFL owner, I'd be a little wary of the Belichick coaching tree. I mean, he traded up to get Tebow in the first round. However, with hindsight, there's two things he did that absolutely changed the next decade+ of Broncos football.

1) Chasing Jay Cutler out of town. At the time it was crazy, but the Broncos aren't winning 5 straight AFCW titles if he stays.
2) Befriending Elway and helping to mend the relation between him and the Broncos front office. I wont give him all the credit here, but there's articles out there in the 2010 time frame documenting this.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Perhaps; I'm not arguing there isn't. But it is notoriously (read impossible) difficult for a team to eat a first round draft pick after only one season.

Not saying they should have outright cut or traded him after 1 season, but I don't think he ever would have seen the field if Josh were his only fan in the org.

McDaniels' failures in Denver are well documented, and if I'm an NFL owner, I'd be a little wary of the Belichick coaching tree. I mean, he traded up to get Tebow in the first round. However, with hindsight, there's two things he did that absolutely changed the next decade+ of Broncos football.

1) Chasing Jay Cutler out of town. At the time it was crazy, but the Broncos aren't winning 5 straight AFCW titles if he stays.
2) Befriending Elway and helping to mend the relation between him and the Broncos front office. I wont give him all the credit here, but there's articles out there in the 2010 time frame documenting this.

I can't even begrudge McDaniels too much for not getting along with Cu(n)tler and a young Brandon Marshall. And does McDaniels get as much credit for the DT88 pick as he gets blamed for Tebow?

 

[FDNY99]

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/the_research_jerry_reese_wanted_it_and_the_giants.html

Draft "hits" from 2007-13 in Rounds 3-7:

(Note: It usually takes three seasons to be able to accurately assess a draft so 2014-15 was not calculated.)

1. Packers – 14
2. Dolphins – 13
T-3. Panthers – 12
T. 28 Giants – 6

Only the Redskins had fewer "hits" than the Giants since Reese took over as general manager.

No fan with a brain can defend Reese's GM abilities or his behavior at the season ending presser. Good for Raanan showing facts to this fool Reese who delusionaly thinks he has done an adequate job. I fear no matter who we hire will be coaching with one hand tied behind his back due to the players Reese will give him

Jerry we know 1 NYG fan on this board who tried over in the football forum...

 

[intlzncster]

McDaniels' failures in Denver are well documented, and if I'm an NFL owner, I'd be a little wary of the Belichick coaching tree. I mean, he traded up to get Tebow in the first round. However, with hindsight, there's two things he did that absolutely changed the next decade+ of Broncos football.

1) Chasing Jay Cutler out of town. At the time it was crazy, but the Broncos aren't winning 5 straight AFCW titles if he stays.
2) Befriending Elway and helping to mend the relation between him and the Broncos front office. I wont give him all the credit here, but there's articles out there in the 2010 time frame documenting this.

Every coach isn't going to succeed, that's just the way it is, but much of that failure/success is due to not having a quarterback. If you don't have a quarterback, you aren't going to succeed in the NFL.

Right now, Bill Obrien is looking very good down in Houston. And he's playing with a good backup QB at the helm. So, I don't think it's a particular indictment on the totality of the BB coaching tree. Some guys are just great coordinators, and just aren't cut out to be HCs. That's life. For instance, Romeo Crennel just doesn't have the personality to be an HC. That wasn't going to work. And Charlie Weiss is nuts.

I would like to see the success of Patricia and McDaniels at his next gig, before I make a grand assessment. I think Patricia has a chance to be a fantastic HC, he just needs the right opportunity. Don't go somewhere without a least an above average QB.

 

[intlzncster]

Not saying they should have outright cut or traded him after 1 season, but I don't think he ever would have seen the field if Josh were his only fan in the org.



I can't even begrudge McDaniels too much for not getting along with Cu(n)tler and a young Brandon Marshall. And does McDaniels get as much credit for the DT88 pick as he gets blamed for Tebow?

A bunch of things McDaniels/Elway did set the Broncos up for success in the following years. All it took was getting a quality QB. It always comes down to QB.