Ollie's Contract

[Doctor Hoop]

Re: player development and Facey
You have to remember that last year Hamilton and Miller took up a lot of his potential minutes. He might have given us this years' production last year, and been even further along this year. Yes, that wouldn't have made us better last year, but it's a factor.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Reading this thread, it's astonishing how many people set the baseline expectation of Ollie being a direct continuation of the greatest coach in the sport's history. And you lecture the "pollyannas/apologists" about having whacked expectations?

WE ARE 7-11 OVERALL and 2-4 and IN SEVENTH PLACE IN THE AAC.

Our finishes in the American under KO: 3rd, 6th, 6th, currently 7th. In this crap conference. That is pathetic. A disgrace to our programs history and JCs legacy.

Were those our expectations for JC??? Tell me how it is unrealistic to expect better than that???

Please get in touch with reality.

 

[ctchamps]

WE ARE 7-11 OVERALL and 2-4 and IN SEVENTH PLACE IN THE AAC.

Our finishes in the American under KO: 3rd, 6th, 6th, currently 7th. In this crap conference. That is pathetic. A disgrace to our programs history and JCs legacy.

Were those our expectations for JC??? Tell me how it is unrealistic to expect better than that???

Please get in touch with reality.

I guess you don't remember how scathing people were towards JC even after number two during down times.

I'm surprised no one is discussing the season Syracuse is having. It could be a coincidence but it also might be relevant that NCAA sanctions have immediate and long term consequences. If this is apologizing so be it.

Disgrace to our programs history and JC's legacy is a bit too melodramatic for my taste. Wooden didn't suffer in spite of UCLA's struggles following his departure. And KO added to the legacy with #4 which will always have far greater historical significance for JC's legacy than even the demise of this program completely. In fact a total demise would only embellish the significance of JC.

Worst case scenario is a core group of fans remain similar to the football posters. I can live with that.

 

[pnow15]

Ollie did an amazing job his first 2 seasons, no other way to describe it. But 2015 and 2016 we under performed. There is no reason that the 2015 team with Boatright, Dham, Purvis, ect should have won only 17 regular season games and get embarrassed at home in the NIT in round 1.

2016 we developed into a good team come March which is what you want, but Nov-Feb was so average it killed our seed and a chance to do damage in the tournament.

This year is a throw away for me, with these injuries and with what Purvis is doing out there I am blacking this year out.

He is nowhere near on the hot seat, but the performance on the court has to improve the next couple of years.

Boat didn't play in the NIT and he was half of the team.

 

[Sonova]

I guess you don't remember how scathing people were towards JC even after number two during down times

Apples and oranges. In Calhoun's 8 seasons after '04 we had 6 tournament appearances, 5 top 4 seeds, 3 Final 8s, 2 Final Fours, 3 League championships, and a National Championship. All in what many considered the best conference in the country during that span. Anyone who bitched and moaned during that run looked pretty foolish, at most, 12 months later. Many of us are looking at the body of work and seeing a very stark and concerning difference in a MUCH weaker league.

 

[pnow15]

He's got 7 scholarship players to use right now. 7. I wish I knew what the hell it is that people think Tom Izzo could do with this team?? Or Coach K? Or Calipari? Or you fill in the blank with whomever you want.

Are the underclassmen getting better? YES. undeniably yes.
Players like Facey and Adams getting better? By leaps and bounds.
And all of this under the very worst of conditions with no bench. He's mixing zones to mask it, and he has a 7 foot center who can't stay on the court for more than 5 minutes a game.

Honestly, what the hell do you want him to do?!?

Put out an SOS to all students. There has to be someone on campus who can shoot and dribble a ball.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

I guess you don't remember how scathing people were towards JC even after number two during down times.

I'm surprised no one is discussing the season Syracuse is having. It could be a coincidence but it also might be relevant that NCAA sanctions have immediate and long term consequences. If this is apologizing so be it.

Disgrace to our programs history and JC's legacy is a bit too melodramatic for my taste. Wooden didn't suffer in spite of UCLA's struggles following his departure. And KO added to the legacy with #4 which will always have far greater historical significance for JC's legacy than even the demise of this program completely. In fact a total demise would only embellish the significance of JC.

Worst case scenario is a core group of fans remain similar to the football posters. I can live with that.

I wasn't saying this tarnishes JC in any way. Of course it doesn't. I was responding to his repeated claims that posters are unrealistic when we expect better than the crap that we've seen this year (and often times the last few).

Some posters go overboard no doubt. The calls for KO to be fired are dumb (I don't agree with that). But at some point people need to start holding the coaches accountable for this mess.

SMU has a 2nd year coach. They don't get the same level of recruits as us. They have a 7 man rotation. And they have the same number of seniors as us. And they're 16-2.

This board has become insufferable lately. Posters repeatedly make fair critiques of KO and the state of the program only to get attacked and called fair weather fans etc. Its pathetic. And EVERY SINGLE TIME he (Stairmaster, and a small number of posters) berate said posters and say they have unrealistic expectations and are basically being idiots to expect better than this.

I just went over the fact that we've finished 6th, 6th, and are now 7th in the AAC. Are you ok with that? Do you think that is a fair level of expectation for KO and staff? How are we ever going to return to prominence if we are so accepting of failure?

You don't have call it a disgrace. Pick a different word. It doesn't change anything. I can not understand how longtime posters (not saying you specifically) can be so accepting of these repeated lazy, sloppy, disinterested, and downright horrendous performances. The SMU game isn't an outlier. It was under JC. That type of performance has been common the last 4 years, including 2014. It's sad.

 

[Tuna]

Why was Hamilton "supposed to be in the starting lineup?" There is no "supposed to be" at this level for your best player. Any coach who is building a team without considering that their best player may go pro (ready or not), is naive and in over his head. I'm not saying that DHam should have gone or that his decision in the spring was anticipated before last season started, but welcome to high major college hoops. It's not a valid excuse for not adjusting or not building a contingency.

If it was anticipated that Hamilton was going to be around for another season, how easy do you think it would have been to recruit another elite small forward type for this year? And I say "another" because, ya know, he already did that with Terry Larrier.

 

[Sonova]

Boat didn't play in the NIT and he was half of the team.

If it was anticipated that Hamilton was going to be around for another season, how easy do you think it would have been to recruit another elite small forward type for this year? And I say "another" because, ya know, he already did that with Terry Larrier.

I wasn't suggesting that we load up on small forwards. But even if Gilbert doesn't get hurt, we would have been very thin at the point. . A back up true point guard would sure be welcomed on this team as Adams is a combo at this level and Purvis can't operate at the point at all. Nor can Vital. Having a fifth guard would have been smart under any circumstances and realistically, Vital would have been that guy (who wouldn't have seen much time).

 

[UConnDan97]

Michigan State 12–7 vs. Uconn 7-11. Both have struggled, but to compare Michigan State woes as equivalent to ours isn't your best argument. We all want the same thing which is sustained success for our program, but let's make sure were being honest with ourselves.

You're right. It's not the best argument, because as I understand it, Michigan State is back to full health now. And they still lost to Northeastern at home with a Hall of Fame coach...

 

[Paesano]

Look, some of you guys are fiercely loyal to KO and, partially, that is due to your respect for JC. I get it and it is admirable. But, seriously, the university and this program is bigger than one man. It is even bigger than the man who built the program. Calhoun was clearly a great coach but that doesn't mean he is great a picking a successor. It is similar to why great players don't always make great coaches. In fact, they rarely do.

As someone mentioned, we finished 6th in this conference the last two years and now we are looking at 7th. People can't use the "crappy" conference as an excuse for our inability to land the same players Duke and Kentucky can land (or Kansas and UNC for that matter...or even Arizona) but then say it is OK to finish 6th or 7th in that crappy conference...over and over again. And since when did 20 wins become the measuring stick? Context doesn't matter? I am sorry but 20 wins, given how many games we play against weak teams in and out of conference, is simply not good enough. When the dust settles, what matters is how well did we do in our conference and in the regular season and where are we ranked when all the games are done? The first part matters because it determines whether or not we make the tournament and what our seed will be. The second part matters because it is the final impression that our team left in the minds of the sports world and recruits.

2014/2015:
Finished 6th in the AAC. Missed the NCAAs. Finished 80th in the Sagarins with a final record of 20-15. That was behind other 20 win powerhouses like Georgia State, George Washington, Green Bay and Harvard.
2015/2016:
Finished 6th in the AAC. Round of 32 in the NCAAs. Finished 25th in the Sagarins with a final record of 25-11. Again, not a "bad" season but marginal enough that we didn't finished ranked by the AP or USA Today.
2016/2017:
Currently 7th in the AAC. Unlikely to make the NCAAs. Currently 93rd in the Sagarins with a record of 6-11 behind...oh, never mind.

We all know Calhoun had seasons worse than 2015/2016. But how bad did it get and for how long?

I am searching for the old Sagarin data but here are the final AP poll results in Calhoun's tenure:
1987 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
1988 Unranked (Missed NCAAs, won NIT)
1989 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
1990 3rd (Elite 8)
1991 Unranked (Sweet 16)
1992 Unranked (Round of 32)
1993 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
1994 4th (Sweet 16)
1995 8th (Elite 8)
1996 3rd (Sweet 16)
1997 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
1998 6th (Elite 8)
1999 3rd (National Champions)
2000 20th (Round of 32)
2001 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
2002 10th (Elite 8)
2003 23rd (Sweet 16)
2004 7th (National Champions)
2005 13th (Round of 32)
2006 2nd (Elite 8)
2007 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
2008 16th (One and done)
2009 5th (Final Four)
2010 Unranked (Missed NCAAs)
2011 9th (National Champions)
2012 Unranked (One and done)

Obviously we need to keep this in perspective. Calhoun came in with head coaching experience so he was probably further up the learning curve when he came to UConn. On the other hand, Calhoun built a great program from dust whereas Ollie was handed a...Ferrari. Hard to say which is harder. Start with nothing but start with experience or take over a great program with little experience. But one can see a few things from the Calhoun era. Even though he got off to a slow start, he never went 4 years straight without finishing ranked somewhere in the AP poll. And, after his third season, he never missed the NCAAs twice in a row.

Ollie is now in his 5th year. He has also never missed the NCAAs twice in a row. And he coached us to a national championship. Those are both great and have earned him some credibility and patience. But it looks like we will finish this year unranked for the third year in a row and we will miss the NCAAs. It looks like we will also finish in the middle of a crappy conference for the third year in a row. And he did win the championship with Calhoun's players. And the trend is in the wrong direction. Is that enough to justify being placed on the hot seat for next year? Some say yes. Some say no. But consider that, if we finish unranked again next year and we fail to make the NCAAs again next year, he will do two things that Calhoun never did, once the program was established. Finish unranked four straight years and miss the NCAAs in back-to-back years. Is justified to make a change, if that were to happen? Some say yes. some say no. For me, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a Top 25 finish and a trip to the NCAAs next year. No one is saying he needs to make it to the final four. But the sanctions will be firmly in the rear view mirror next year and everyone has been excited about the last three recruiting classes (including this year's) so it seems reasonable to expect the team to show significant life next year. So, for me, I am in favor of the hot seat for next year. Why? Because, to me, that means the administration is looking into options should next year be another bad to mediocre season. That seems prudent. It doesn't mean they HAVE to change the coach at the end of next year but that they are prepared to do something should it be a total disaster. If next year turns out to be mediocre, but similar to 2015/2016, maybe he gets yet another year to show a positive trend for two years running. I see two reasonable opinions on this but a lot of people being unreasonable in their respect for the opposite opinion.

 

[Athlete94]

Um...7 wins in three seasons. Unless of course you are talking about this season, which had yet to hold a tournament game. Cool story, bro...

I'm sure he means one win since the title run

 

[Athlete94]

Ollie has also gotten some bad luck with two of his better players in Daniels and Hamilton leaving early for the draft when they weren't ready. I don't remember that happening to Calhoun very often.

Come on, it's not like those guys were ray Allen or Rip Hamilton leaving, that's a weak response. Another season like the past, Benedict has to rethink KO..

 

[UConnStats]

Come on, it's not like those guys were ray Allen or Rip Hamilton leaving, that's a weak response. Another season like the past, Benedict has to rethink KO..

Hamilton as an upperclassman would probably be pretty damn good. Compare him to most of our sophomores. Few had a bigger role that early in their careers.

 

[Athlete94]

Hamilton as an upperclassman would probably be pretty damn good. Compare him to most of our sophomores. Few had a bigger role that early in their careers.

Doubt it, if that were the case he'd be playing in the NBA now instead of the D-League... decent talent, yes, but if he catches on in the NBA it will be a while... Not my favorite UCONN player, too much of a one on one guy... but good chat

 

[BlueDogs]

He's got 7 scholarship players to use right now. 7. I wish I knew what the hell it is that people think Tom Izzo could do with this team?? Or Coach K? Or Calipari? Or you fill in the blank with whomever you want.

Are the underclassmen getting better? YES. undeniably yes.
Players like Facey and Adams getting better? By leaps and bounds.
And all of this under the very worst of conditions with no bench. He's mixing zones to mask it, and he has a 7 foot center who can't stay on the court for more than 5 minutes a game.

Honestly, what the hell do you want him to do?!?

The no depth, only 7 players mantra only goes so far. There are teams playing 5 and 6 deep that can play and do play at a high level. We supposedly have talented, high level players and while not all starters should be able to compete. Poor execution, no intensity, lapses in concentration ... all point towards a poorly coached squad. We see glimpses of what they can do, it's just not repeatable or sustainable. I have little doubt under JC this squad would be over 500(still struggling but winning more than losing) because he demanded that level of execution and commitment to high level play. I hope KO gets his act together. I really do. We can't afford another program crashing and burning.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm sure he means one win since the title run

Then I'm sure he should have said 2 years instead of exaggerating to try to further his agenda...

 

[UConnDan97]

The no depth, only 7 players mantra only goes so far. There are teams playing 5 and 6 deep that can play and do play at a high level. We supposedly have talented, high level players and while not all starters should be able to compete. Poor execution, no intensity, lapses in concentration ... all point towards a poorly coached squad. We see glimpses of what they can do, it's just not repeatable or sustainable. I have little doubt under JC this squad would be over 500(still struggling but winning more than losing) because he demanded that level of execution and commitment to high level play. I hope KO gets his act together. I really do. We can't afford another program crashing and burning.

Okay, I'm fine with this. Feel free to provide the name of the aforementioned high level schools, along with their box scores showing that they only used 5 to 6 players, and then I'll be done with the argument, even if we aren't able to use our best 6. Sound good?

 

[mauconnfan]

The no depth, only 7 players mantra only goes so far. There are teams playing 5 and 6 deep that can play and do play at a high level. We supposedly have talented, high level players and while not all starters should be able to compete. Poor execution, no intensity, lapses in concentration ... all point towards a poorly coached squad. We see glimpses of what they can do, it's just not repeatable or sustainable. I have little doubt under JC this squad would be over 500(still struggling but winning more than losing) because he demanded that level of execution and commitment to high level play. I hope KO gets his act together. I really do. We can't afford another program crashing and burning.

Ridiculous to compare the 6-7 man teams you are thinking of vs this team which is playing 2-3 guys who would have gotten less than 10 minutes of burn with a full healthy roster.

Exectution - isn't good but if you know basketball you need players who can execute to make that happen. They don't enough f them
Intensity - not sure what you're watching they play hard don't mix that up with no being that talented or good.
Lapses in concentration - again is it that or is just they're not that good?

When the team is healthy KO will have "his act together" just be sure to show up and applaud when they are good next year ok?

 

[BlueDogs]

Okay, I'm fine with this. Feel free to provide the name of the aforementioned high level schools, along with their box scores showing that they only used 5 to 6 players, and then I'll be done with the argument, even if we aren't able to use our best 6. Sound good?

I'm not discounting what you are saying. What I'm saying is you can find schools that can run deep in March with one or two key players and plenty of holes and majorly thin benches with talent that drops off significantly after no. 6. I don't expect miracles, but I am having trouble understanding how badly they perform with kids that are probably innately more talented and athletic than say kids at Northeastern.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm not discounting what you are saying. What I'm saying is you can find schools that can run deep in March with one or two key players and plenty of holes and majorly thin benches with talent that drops off significantly after no. 6. I don't expect miracles, but I am having trouble understanding how badly they perform with kids that are probably innately more talented and athletic than say kids at Northeastern.

Like I said, I'm fine with your point of high-level teams that use 5 to 6 players only. Just provide them for me. Unless of course you were exaggerating a little. That seems to be going around nowadays...

 

[UConnDan97]

Doubt it, if that were the case he'd be playing in the NBA now instead of the D-League... decent talent, yes, but if he catches on in the NBA it will be a while... Not my favorite UCONN player, too much of a one on one guy... but good chat

You realize that DHam is averaging 15/8/5 against higher level competition, right? He would undoubtedly be averaging a double-double for us and would create a mismatch that other teammates like Adams could exploit.

My goodness. Now, we aren't sure if last year's best player could help us this year? This board...

 

[jrazz12]

You realize that DHam is averaging 15/8/5 against higher level competition, right? He would undoubtedly be averaging a double-double for us and would create a mismatch that other teammates like Adams could exploit.

My goodness. Now, we aren't sure if last year's best player could help us this year? This board...

You're doing yeoman's work here my man. I've given up, the dumb portion of the board is running rampant to the point where it would be a full time job combatting the Chicken Littles here. Logic and context are a lost concept.

 

[BlueDogs]

Ridiculous to compare the 6-7 man teams you are thinking of vs this team which is playing 2-3 guys who would have gotten less than 10 minutes of burn with a full healthy roster.

Exectution - isn't good but if you know basketball you need players who can execute to make that happen. They don't enough f them
Intensity - not sure what you're watching they play hard don't mix that up with no being that talented or good.
Lapses in concentration - again is it that or is just they're not that good?

When the team is healthy KO will have "his act together" just be sure to show up and applaud when they are good next year ok?

I'm only interested in seeing our guys do well. No axe to grind. I'm more curious as to why KO can't get them playing better. You see glimpses of really high level play but then it just falls apart. Immaturity of players is a factor, but that should wane as you get enough reps and get deeper into the season. I have hope every time they hit the floor that it will click.

 

[BlueDogs]

Like I said, I'm fine with your point of high-level teams that use 5 to 6 players only. Just provide them for me. Unless of course you were exaggerating a little. That seems to be going around nowadays...

Let me be clear - teams that can play at a high level against top competition with incomplete squads..... I could throw Butler, Dayton, Crieghton, an Ivy League Champion, Davidson, VCU,etc.. out there at different times to make the point. I'll do some checking...