Non-Key Tweets

[dayooper]

The Big12 GOR agreement is below:



There is nothing in the agreement which states the GOR is invalidated if a certain percentage of the teams leave. In the fact the only provision for modification I saw is if all the member institutions agree to the change.

The whole agreement is only 4 pages and per the below linked article is intentionally vague. This vagueness is allegedly to insure any attempted withdrawal ends in a messy drawn out litigation and there is no "easy" way to to just buy your way out. It is basically a poison pill to make Big12 teams not worth the headache for any conference looking to add them

http://sportspolitico.com/2015/02/16/will-grant-of-rights-protect-big12-from-future-raids/

UT, OU, OSU and KU might be able to find new conference homes and would not be opposed to resending the GOR. But what about WVU, KSU, Baylor, TCU, and TT? They aren't going to agree to going into conference purgatory...their best meal ticket is the Big12.

The SEC and Big10 may have some interest in some B12 teams but they do not need them now. The SEC and Big10 are making money hand over fist and why take on the aggravation of a messy multi-conference lawsuit? The ACC seems more likely to try and draw Big12 teams now but, based on the ACC's incompetent leadership and relatively low payout, the really attractive B12 schools would be better off holding out for the SEC or Big10 in 2025.

If the Big12 does not expand they are a dead conference walking but it may be a really slow death ending sometime after 2021.

I think you are confusing the GoR with the media contract. The GoR is between the conference and the schools, the media contract is between the conference and their media partners.

The GoR is a where the conference schools bundle their rights to sell to the media partners. That's all you linked. The media contract is the actual trade of services. Two separate contracts between separate entities. The Big12 sells the rights secured in the GoR to the partners for money.

The rumor (just a rumor) was that the media contract, not the GoR, was void if the number of schools dropped to eight. Since the media partners have the right of refusal on any school added, media partners could then decide who to allow the Big12 to invite, if anybody at all. If Fox and ESPN are happy with the product, they will do nothing. If not?

 

[dwalks93]

I think you are confusing the GoR with the media contract. The GoR is between the conference and the schools, the media contract is between the conference and their media partners.

The GoR is a where the conference schools bundle their rights to sell to the media partners. That's all you linked. The media contract is the actual trade of services. Two separate contracts between separate entities. The Big12 sells the rights secured in the GoR to the partners for money.

The rumor (just a rumor) was that the media contract, not the GoR, was void if the number of schools dropped to eight. Since the media partners have the right of refusal on any school added, media partners could then decide who to allow the Big12 to invite, if anybody at all. If Fox and ESPN are happy with the product, they will do nothing. If not?

I suppose I owe an apology then.....my bad. Thanks for the correction

 

[dayooper]

I suppose I owe an apology then.....my bad. Thanks for the correction

No aplogies needed. Love the conversation. It's what makes this board my home away from home.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Matthew D Carlson ‏@mcgoblue 11h
@Bluevodreal Does the Big 10 try and do this before contract negotiations begin or leave an opening for renegotiating a new contract?

Bluevod ‏@Bluevodreal 9h
@mcgoblue yes they need the ammo for best deal possible including new high Rev Markets.

Matthew D Carlson ‏@mcgoblue 8h
@Bluevodreal thanks. I was hoping for that. Any word on a Duke or North Carolina?

Bluevod ‏@Bluevodreal 8h
@mcgoblue No Duke North Carolina was thrown around last time. I have not heard of them this time yet.


We @flugempire have always said B12 GOR/ACC GOR have teeth
But B12 will be pressured to secure future at some point with TV partners

The Bad Guy ‏@snoopdoug44 16h
@OmegaSupreme914 @posas13 @Expansion_Crush @Iamgrizzly1974 @RedDirtSport @flugempire as I said two years ago, the TV networks can blow GOR

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@snoopdoug44 @OmegaSupreme914 @posas13 @Expansion_Crush @RedDirtSport Exactly and everyone now know ESPN wants to retain the B1G Tier 1 prog

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@snoopdoug44 @OmegaSupreme914 @posas13 @Expansion_Crush @RedDirtSport @flugempire With that gaining 2 billion from ABC ESPN will spend.

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@snoopdoug44 @OmegaSupreme914 @posas13 @Expansion_Crush @RedDirtSport @flugempire IlBottom line is exposure. ESPN dual distribute games

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@snoopdoug44 @OmegaSupreme914 @posas13 @Expansion_Crush @RedDirtSport @flugempire FOX does not dual distribute. ESPN has more cords than Fox

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@snoopdoug44 @OmegaSupreme914 @posas13 @Expansion_Crush @RedDirtSport ESPN cords outnumber FOX x2 those viewers important for B1G recruiting

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@NebGradDubDub @theDudeofWV @80sTiger ABC contact said OSU vs MICH game is on ABC book 20 yrsin future. No other CFB game is close in value.

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@NebGradDubDub @theDudeofWV @80sTiger If ESPN -FoX share B1G tv rights expect expansion to blow up fast. GOR's will be broken ABC exec says

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 3h
@Iamgrizzly1974 No. That's not accurate. No ABC/ESPN exec is telling you or anyone else that.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 31m
@Iamgrizzly1974 What ABC exec told you GoR will be voided? Because ESPN handles sports programming for ABC.

CA Curtis ‏@Iamgrizzly1974 9h
@NebGradDubDub @theDudeofWV @80sTiger ACC ACCN is already DOA. Movement can happen now.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 3h
@Iamgrizzly1974 Networks are NOT the rights holders. The conferences own the rights.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 32m
@Iamgrizzly1974 Besides the networks are NOT the beneficiaries of the GoR. The conf holds the rights.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 40m
@Iamgrizzly1974 Chris, with all due respect networks like ESPN are playing hardball with contracts.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 39m
@Iamgrizzly1974 While Michigan-OSU is valuable the conf doesn't justify the staggering numbers being thrown out.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 55m
@Iamgrizzly1974 The B1G just doesn't have enough attractive inventory to start a bidding war especially with ESPN being cash poor.

Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 54m
@Iamgrizzly1974 Without a bidding war the B1G is finding a bear market that says Rutgers & Maryland hurt the quality of content available.


ME: This is why I call them the peanut gallery.

 

[dayooper]

So did Nebraska if you recall and now Nebraska athletics are irrelevant.

From a different thread

We don't know what will happen, but to make a blanket statement like that really doesn't make sense to me. College sports is all about coaching. Since joining the Big10, Nebraska has had a mediocre coach in Pelini and a wtf coach in Mike Riley. Since Tom Osborne retired, there has been a series of lousy coaches in Lincoln. In fact, they really weren't doing all that well while playing in the Big12. There were 15 Big12 championship games while Nebraska was part of the Big12. They played in only five, winning two of them. Three of those were in the first four years. Two of them while Osborne was coach. The worst part of it is they played in a division with ISU, Colorado, Kansas, KSU, Missouri. Nebraska's slide was started well before they went to the Big10. If they get a bluechip coach they will be back.

Nebraska was sliding after Osborne left. He took a lot of questionable kids, both academically and behaviorally (Lawerence Phillips) and won with those kids that no one would touch.

 

[dayooper]

Sorry, should be six Big12 CCG that Nebraska was in, sorry.

 

[pj]

Those ideas seemed plausible until the Dude of WV voiced them.

 

[dwalks93]

I can't believe I am writing this but the Dude of WV just made a good point.

Dayooper correctly pointed out the real purpose of the B12 GOR is to maximize the media contract. So theoretically if the media contract was voided due to departures then the GOR's purpose would cease to exist. But that is not what the B12 GOR states. It is left vague and those open for interpretation. It is not tied to the media contract in any way.

Programs like WVU will try and use the GOR to force other B12 programs to remain in the conference. As the Dude stated the conference owns the GOR not the media partner. Will it work? Probably not...if the media money is in conference realignment then the money wins. But it will be ugly and there is no doubt programs like WVU will recognize their very future is in holding the Big12 together till the B12 GOR expires in 2025. So far no conference has succeeded in keeping a team once it has announced its intention to leave but it will be a messy court battle over the GOR if a B12 teams tries to bolt.

 

[pj]

Complying with the GoR is not a big deal as long as the team gets paid for its content. They just give the media rights to their home games to their old conference. They get a check for their home games from the old conference and a check for their road games from the new conference.

If the old conference claims it keeps the GoR but doesn't have to compensate the departing team for its content, then there is the basis for a lawsuit.

 

[Seaa Blue]

And as long as the media company doesn't decrease the money to the conference, voilà. Media company might be happy, new conference is happy, school is happy... Lawyers are giddy.

 

[HuskyHawk]

the thing that doesn't make sense is that he assumes all of the schools get their home state to carry the BIG 12 netowork. I highly doubt this happens. On the other hand, he assums UConn wouldn't get any part of eastern New York or the New England states other than Connecticut. To me UConn brings a minimum of 10 million people while the other schools besides BYU will struggle to bring 5 million.

Yes. Many silly assumptions. Where does the 11M for Cinci come from? He's giving them the whole state, but they certainly do not have that kind of pull and are second fiddle in their own home market. They would actually get some play in the Cinci suburbs in Northern Kentucky, but would be pretty much nothing in northern Ohio.

Neither Florida school does much to move the needle in Florida, so those numbers are grossly inflated.

 

[pj]

UCF could get $0.10 throughout Florida and $0.25 in metro Orlando. UConn could get $2.40 throughout Connecticut, and $0.20 in New York City and Boston.

 

[HuskyHawk]

From a different thread

We don't know what will happen, but to make a blanket statement like that really doesn't make sense to me. College sports is all about coaching. Since joining the Big10, Nebraska has had a mediocre coach in Pelini and a wtf coach in Mike Riley. Since Tom Osborne retired, there has been a series of lousy coaches in Lincoln. In fact, they really weren't doing all that well while playing in the Big12. There were 15 Big12 championship games while Nebraska was part of the Big12. They played in only five, winning two of them. Three of those were in the first four years. Two of them while Osborne was coach. The worst part of it is they played in a division with ISU, Colorado, Kansas, KSU, Missouri. Nebraska's slide was started well before they went to the Big10. If they get a bluechip coach they will be back.

Nebraska was sliding after Osborne left. He took a lot of questionable kids, both academically and behaviorally (Lawerence Phillips) and won with those kids that no one would touch.

I am a long time Nebraska fan (that's what happens when you are from Kansas and grow up in CT I guess). I think you are spot on. I think calling them irrelevant is wrong. They still sell out completely and travel better than anyone. What that means to me is that if they can get a coach that can get them over the hump, they will be very good again, very quickly. Their base of support remains tremendous and is an advantage.

 

[Dooley]

Nebraska isn't irrelevant...they're just chin deep in a really bad cycle (for them). They have the best fans in the country and would take over the Rent if they ever came here. That alone keeps them relevant. There will always be a huge passionate fanbase that demands success. They'll figure it out. I'm nowhere near as worried about Nebraska football as others.

 

[billybud]

The problem with Nebraska is recruiting.

They lost Texas...not a 2016 recruit from Texas. And have not a real recruiting area.

And only three 4 star guys and a bunch of 3 stars. Unlike Michigan (13 four stars), Ohio State (16 four star or better), Michigan State (13 four stars).

Nebraska can compete in the weaker division...but the eastern big boys are pulling away.

 

[MattMang23]

The problem with Nebraska is recruiting.

They lost Texas...not a 2016 recruit from Texas. And have not a real recruiting area.

As someone else said, re: Oklahoma. Nebraska previously played in the Big Eight without any Texas teams. They still recruited Texas in the past.

Perhaps their non-recruiting of Texas could have something to do with their coaching change and the hiring of a guy who's career has been predominantly spent on the West Coast?

Recruiting is about relationships. Look at where Mike Riley has coached and look where his recruits are from.

This is how we ended up with a who's who of All-League Connecticut players before we smartened up and cut off our PP.

 

[JSM1970]

They are hugely irrelevant to be honest right now. Maybe they turn it on again in the future, but it won't be until Meyer and Harbaugh leave the B1G. At least PSU has fertile recruiting grounds in PA, Jersey, etc.

Nebraska isn't irrelevant...they're just chin deep in a really bad cycle (for them). They have the best fans in the country and would take over the Rent if they ever came here. That alone keeps them relevant. There will always be a huge passionate fanbase that demands success. They'll figure it out. I'm nowhere near as worried about Nebraska football as others.

 

[Husky25]

It's not from where recruits come, it's who they are. There were 11 Cornhuskers from Texas on the 2015 team. there were 6 on 1994 National Championship team. The Recruiting ground for Nebraska was and is now, Nebraska.

 

[whaler11]

The problem with Nebraska is recruiting.

They lost Texas...not a 2016 recruit from Texas. And have not a real recruiting area.

And only three 4 star guys and a bunch of 3 stars. Unlike Michigan (13 four stars), Ohio State (16 four star or better), Michigan State (13 four stars).

Nebraska can compete in the weaker division...but the eastern big boys are pulling away.

They also suffer from Nebraska high school football dying a quick death.

Farming got more efficient and the families got smaller. A lot of schools have dropped the sport, gone to co-ops or are playing less than 11v11 with tiny rosters.

Their other problem is expectations. It will continue to cycle if 9 wins seasons aren't enough in the future because that is their ceiling without an amazing hire.

 

[billybud]

Nebraska has been hanging around...making the final AP Top 25 several times in the last ten seasons...but not breaking into the top (rankings of 19, 20, 24)...then zippo for final rankings last six years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The problem with Nebraska is recruiting.

They lost Texas...not a 2016 recruit from Texas. And have not a real recruiting area.

And only three 4 star guys and a bunch of 3 stars. Unlike Michigan (13 four stars), Ohio State (16 four star or better), Michigan State (13 four stars).

Nebraska can compete in the weaker division...but the eastern big boys are pulling away.

Momentum builds momentum. Does anyone here feel like Michigan State has been a historically powerful program? They haven't. They landed a great coach, and are riding the momentum. Go back pre-Saban, and Alabama wasn't doing much of anything. They had a tough stretch. Kentucky basketball has had tough stretches too. Ohio State football too, and not long ago. Michigan is just now coming out of a rough stretch. Indiana basketball still hasn't recovered from the Knight era.

Nebraska has amazing fan support. So all they need is the right coach, a strong season or two to build momentum and they'd be back in the thick of it.

 

[billybud]

Nebraska was a national recruiter...especially hit California. They have been unable to attract elite athletes like they did in the 90's.

 

[billybud]

Coaching changes can help recruiting...Franklin at Penn State, Jimbo at FSU, Saban at Alabama, Harbaugh at Michigan...Fedora at UNC, etc

And sometimes not...Nebraska, Golden at Miami, Texas, etc,

 

[coachcap]

Yes. Many silly assumptions. Where does the 11M for Cinci come from? He's giving them the whole state, but they certainly do not have that kind of pull and are second fiddle in their own home market. They would actually get some play in the Cinci suburbs in Northern Kentucky, but would be pretty much nothing in northern Ohio.

Neither Florida school does much to move the needle in Florida, so those numbers are grossly inflated.

the thing that doesn't make sense is that he assumes all of the schools get their home state to carry the BIG 12 netowork. I highly doubt this happens. On the other hand, he assums UConn wouldn't get any part of eastern New York or the New England states other than Connecticut. To me UConn brings a minimum of 10 million people while the other schools besides BYU will struggle to bring 5 million.

To add to your train of thought: Big-12 is carried on Fox platforms & Fox owns a significant part of the YES Network. Currently, Cablevision is playing it's hardball renegotiation game with YES & taken it off of their systems. If UCONN were added to the XII & YES was broadcasting Tier 3 XII games how long would it take the Dolans to cave? I know that they are negotiation nut jobs, but UCONN's history with SNY shows that they can be a media "game changer" as SNY got 100% penetration on cable systems in CT. within a month of Signing up the Huskies.

 

[Kolumbo]

We'll know so much more in just a day or two. Such as, who wins Iowa.