Maryland to Big10 Getting Some Legs

[UConnDan97]

How can they wall off anything when an ACC member is leaving for the Big10? I don't understand why it would prevent Rutgers from leaving. Clearly, Maryland is unimpressed.

That's true, but I wonder how significant the Maryland "no" vote for the 50 million exit fee will be in a court of law (Biz?). You can be sure that Rutgers would have happily voted "yes", as would UConn. And if what I'm hearing about the state of monetary affairs is at Rutgers, a 50 million dollar buyout would crush them in the short term, even with 24 million / year from the Big10 (with a pro-rated "new team" structure). I could be wrong about that, because I just don't know enough about the buyout legality...

 

[nomar]

They have to pay it.

 

[ASweet3781]

Why is it B12 or bust for them? That's not rhetorical. I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff. I don't understand why they, like us, wouldn't take the first thing that was offered? I mean, I guess if they get an ACC invite they can use that as leverage, but worst case scenario is for the music to stop without you in a chair. From UConn's perspective, it's not ACC or bust -- even if the B10 is just a pipe dream. Is there no interest in Louisville on the part of the ACC?

The ACC claims they value academics and Louisville is a Tier 3 academic hell hole.

 

[nomar]

The ACC claims they value academics and Louisville is a Tier 3 academic hell hole.

And Florida State and NC State are Ivy League caliber?

Is that really it? Good, if so.

 

[UConnDan97]

They have to pay it.

Is that a legal opinion? Or just an opinion?

 

[ASweet3781]

And Florida State and NC State are Ivy League caliber?

Is that really it? Good, if so.

Compared to Louisville, yes they are.

 

[UConn990411]

And Florida State and NC State are Ivy League caliber?

Is that really it? Good, if so.

The difference is that Florida State and NC State have been in the conference forever.

I think we tend to overrate how much the ACC cares about academics, but it is factor nonetheless. When you match the schools up side by side, UConn is a better fit for the ACC right now than Louisville (at least that's what everyone with "inside knowledge" is saying).

 

[junglehusky]

Why is it B12 or bust for them? That's not rhetorical. I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff. I don't understand why they, like us, wouldn't take the first thing that was offered? I mean, I guess if they get an ACC invite they can use that as leverage, but worst case scenario is for the music to stop without you in a chair. From UConn's perspective, it's not ACC or bust -- even if the B10 is just a pipe dream. Is there no interest in Louisville on the part of the ACC?

Remember in 2011 when Texas A&M, Mizzou, Colorado and Utah were involved with the first relignment moves, Pittsburgh was rumored to be targeted by the Big12 to replace Mizzou (along with TCU). My understanding is that set Cuse and WVU into panic mode, and WVU was trying to get into the ACC before they got a Big12 invite. The scuttlebutt was that WVU wasn't going to get an ACC invite because of their academics not being up to snuff, even though they are a state U. Louisville has been improving academically but probably not significantly ahead of where WVU is, so that's why the BXII is rumored to be UL's most likely landing spot. Plus, I think they were talking to the BXII last year too but the BXII was waiting on ND, BYU, or maybe someone else.

 

[nomar]

Is that a legal opinion? Or just an opinion?

I'm a lawyer. And while I haven't read the agreement, I'm pretty sure that the top-notch lawyers used by the ACC to paper the conference charter and the exit fee provision did their job. When you have sophisticated arms-length entities, one of them can't just back out of contractual obligations. If they didn't like it, they could have walked away then and paid whatever the exit fee was at that point.

 

[nomar]

Remember in 2011 when Texas A&M, Mizzou, Colorado and Utah were involved with the first relignment moves, Pittsburgh was rumored to be targeted by the Big12 to replace Mizzou (along with TCU). My understanding is that set Cuse and WVU into panic mode, and WVU was trying to get into the ACC before they got a Big12 invite. The scuttlebutt was that WVU wasn't going to get an ACC invite because of their academics not being up to snuff, even though they are a state U. Louisville has been improving academically but probably not significantly ahead of where WVU is, so that's why the BXII is rumored to be UL's most likely landing spot. Plus, I think they were talking to the BXII last year too but the BXII was waiting on ND, BYU, or maybe someone else.

Thanks to everybody for their insight. Didn't realize Louisville was such a crap school.

 

[junglehusky]

The difference is that Florida State and NC State have been in the conference forever.

I think we tend to overrate how much the ACC cares about academics, but it is factor nonetheless. When you match the schools up side by side, UConn is a better fit for the ACC right now than Louisville (at least that's what everyone with "inside knowledge" is saying).

FSU is much better academically that a lot of football fans might think. The academics of the football program is notorious because of scandals but the reputation of their research programs and overall academics is really nothing to laugh at. NC State is probably right there with UNC/Duke too. And your point about UConn being the best fit is a good one.

 

[upstater]

The ACC claims they value academics and Louisville is a Tier 3 academic hell hole.

Tier 3 is something USNW made up. No one in the real world knows what it means. Louisville is on par with Clemson, both schools have low research, low support for faculty, big teaching loads. little invested in terms of students (i.e. low costs per student). Fla. State and NC State are actually ahead of Clemson in this regard, but Clemson is at the bottom of the ACC, no matter what nonsense USNWR invents about tiers.

That said, I think UConn is much more viable than Louisville.

 

[junglehusky]

Thanks to everybody for their insight. Didn't realize Louisville was such a crap school.

I mean, they're not crap, they're probably a bit better than USF and Cinci and way ahead of say, Boise, but they are behind where UConn and Rutgers are. UL, USF and Cinci are building infrastructure and want to be where UConn is, and UConn wants to be where UNC and UVA are (academically as well as conference wise), these things take time and $$$.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm a lawyer. And while I haven't read the agreement, I'm pretty sure that the top-notch lawyers used by the ACC to paper the conference charter and the exit fee provision did their job. When you have sophisticated arms-length entities, one of them can't just back out of contractual obligations. If they didn't like it, they could have walked away then and paid whatever the exit fee was at that point.

Okay, that's fair. So they can't pull any WVU or SyraPitt shenanigans to pay less, since they voted "no"? Couldn't the fact that the ACC held a higher buyout vote "effective immediately" be considered diress? Are they in effect bound by the contract immediately without a "meeting of the minds"? (I know very little about contract law....it's the equivalent of a 'Contracts for Dummies' book)...

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm a lawyer. And while I haven't read the agreement, I'm pretty sure that the top-notch lawyers used by the ACC to paper the conference charter and the exit fee provision did their job. When you have sophisticated arms-length entities, one of them can't just back out of contractual obligations. If they didn't like it, they could have walked away then and paid whatever the exit fee was at that point.

By the way, whatever you decide, I'll believe. The reason being that you are Jesus Shuttlesworth, and the girls seem to like you...

 

[uconnfan68]

You better believe it is. They have failed us in every possible way....so far. Their job is to get UConn athletics into a stable prospering conference. Right now they have an F.

Then pay up a few $100 Million. We have to buy our way in now.

 

[nomar]

Okay, that's fair. So they can't pull any WVU or SyraPitt shenanigans to pay less, since they voted "no"? Couldn't the fact that the ACC held a higher buyout vote "effective immediately" be considered diress? Are they in effect bound by the contract immediately without a "meeting of the minds"? (I know very little about contract law....it's the equivalent of a 'Contracts for Dummies' book)...

Well, the Big East exit provisions are different. The problem for those schools wasn't the cost, it was the waiting period. But I think the Big East had a mechanism where you could pay more to get out more quickly. So there was wiggle room.

But yeah, Maryland will definitely try. Those are decent arguments Maryland could make to try to get the ACC to give them a discount, sure.

I'd have to read what the conference charter says but presumably Maryland agreed to be bound by any 75% vote to raise the exit fee. There's the meeting of the minds. Of course reasonableness is read into contracts, so there's an argument that $50M is just too high. But I don't think you'd ever see a judge invalidate the whole increase. It's a little harder to claim duress when you're a gigantic academic institution instead of some poor schmuck. And considering the fact that Maryland is exiting the ACC in order to make a whole lot more money, they're in a tough position to cry poverty.

You seem to know quite a bit about contract law for a non-lawyer.

 

[Chuck]

I'm thinking that MD being the departing school may be better for Uconn than FSU and/or Clemson being the team(s). I was a bit nervous when FSU and Clemson were rumored to be leaving the ACC (which they still may). My fear was that because 2 "football" schools were leaving the ACC, they would try to find a football school or 2 to replace them. With MD leaving, they have clearly been a "basketball" school. Maybe it's easier for UConn's basketball strength to get us in.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

FSU is much better academically that a lot of football fans might think. The academics of the football program is notorious because of scandals but the reputation of their research programs and overall academics is really nothing to laugh at. NC State is probably right there with UNC/Duke too. And your point about UConn being the best fit is a good one.

You're not really trying to equate NC State's academics with Duke and UNC, are you?

 

[uconNYC]

What if MD declines? Their regents are supposedly divided and will have a meeting on Monday. Does the B1G then go for RU and UConn? Or does the ACC make a countermove for RU?

 

[junglehusky]

That might be the case Chuck, but I'd also be concerned that if it were FSU / clemson leaving, that would be two less "football votes" and could make adding a "basetball school" more likely, whereas if MD leaves it means one less "basketball vote". I recall Coach K having very positive quotes about adding Pitt/Cuse and some FSU bigwig having a very negative reaction. It benefits UConn if the bball/fball balance of ACC membership tilts towards bball.

Having said that, it still sounds like UConn is probably at or near the top of expansion candidates, though that might be based primarily on last year's rumors. Hope that doesn't change.

 

[Silk City]

I simply can't buy these rumors. Compton might be more of a Big 10 town than Piscataway, NJ

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

What if MD declines? Their regents are supposedly divided and will have a meeting on Monday. Does the B1G then go for RU and UConn? Or does the ACC make a countermove for RU?

While there is ACC sentiment there, I don't see them rejecting it.

 

[junglehusky]

You're not really trying to equate NC State's academics with Duke and UNC, are you?

I... don't know? I'll admit my perceptions might be tilted by research reputation, rather than undergrad admissions, etc in this case.

 

[uconNYC]

I simply can't buy these rumors. Compton might be more of a Big 10 town than Piscataway, NJ

Believe it. The Washington Post article pretty much confirms it 100%.