FSU and Clemson to Big XII? | Page 5 | The Boneyard

FSU and Clemson to Big XII?

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The AAU is kicking members out because the nation's research budget has been slashed.

The AAU is not an academic organization as much as it is a lobbying group. Headquarters on K Street. With less $$ to go around, they are slashing. Cuse didn't run afoul of the org so much as the org sees less pie to go around in the future. There have literally been letters sent out signalling that more culling is in the works.

I understand that. Do some research though on what Syracuse has done with their research programs and projects. This is at least a 10 year process that's going on up there. IMO, they have basically put nearly every resource they've got into projects that are locally funded and are geared toward pumping up the local community. To me, if you're looking to grow, if the big time federal dollars aren't available, a major focuse should be on the largest private industries you can find, wherever they may be, not focusing on making sure that the local high schools are graduating their students at at least a respectable rate. Syracuse has turned the major focus of their research funding to projects that are centered on improving life in upstate new york. In an environment of restricted federal spending, that's clearly a self preservation move, not a growth move. My opinion.

As for the spending, cash situation, Cuse has a billion dollar endowment. They took a $300 million hit a few years ago, based on bad local investements, and it was a hiccup. Our entire endowment is just over $300 million. Taking a $300 million hit would bankrupt us right now.

President Herbst, priority #1 is growing the endowment, and so far she's done a great job.

As for ESPN, the paycheck is absolutely signidiant. Big east football/bball schools netted 8.6 million last year based on big east conference affiliation as dual members (Numbers released in memphis joingin press statements, meaning that memphis was told that they can expect revenue similar).

A $15 - $17 million payout is clearly double that.

But yes, I think that signing over exclusivety to a broadcasting company for all of a conferences broadcasting rights, is a terrible idea.
 

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Everybody's endowment took a percentage hit when the market took a spin in '08. Maybe some institutions had more invested in Wall Street than others, but nobody came out of it unscathed.
 

zls44

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They will make more money in the ACC on the contract than they will in the Big East. By several million. If that's accurate, then how are they struggling?
 
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If ND joins a conference, it won't be because of academics. All their other sports other than football will be scheduling the BE. So why does football suddenly make a hair's bit of difference to the academic side? It makes no sense. Is football the only sport that impacts academics?

It's not because of academics. No one's suggesting its the sole reason. But it's a factor. And it's why Notre Dame will not join the Big East full fledged. If Notre Dame has to join, its going to be the Big 10 or ACC. The SEC, Big 12, and the Big East aren't even in the discussion.
 

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Good read. That throws some water on the rumor unfortunately. But then again I'm sure he couldn't comment even if Clemson to Big12 was imminent.
 
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They will make more money in the ACC on the contract than they will in the Big East. By several million. If that's accurate, then how are they struggling?

The university in the past decade has had to divert everything they've got into helping the local community survive. As upstater correctly notes, the AAU has modified it's membership criteria significantly, and put all members under review, to reflect what's happening in the federal governemnt regarding academic research funding.

From what I"ve learned recently though, even if the AAU hadn't modified it's criteria, SU would still have fallen significantly below AAU standards in research programs that are federally funded. They've essentially given up going after federal dollars to any signfiicant degree, and instead of pursuing large private industries nationally, and globally, are mostly are going after state dollars, adn local dollars. THe diversion of money out of New York City to upstate new york does not make people happy down in our neck of the woods. I wasn't aware of any of this until just about aweek ago, as I haven't really paid much attention to Cuse other than the b-ball program since the 90s.

They done a great job up there in going after alumni donations, and the most definitely have an endowment that is in the billion dollar figure range, but for an institution that size, with that history, to be focusing on the funding and research projects that they are concentrated on now, after a half century of being an AAU institution, well I don't know how else to put it, but to me, that means clearly that Syracuse University leadership in the past decade has made a conscious decision that the local community up there is failing, and they are in survival mode, to keep it going.

They are actually doing a good job of it, and after learning all this recently, it makes perfect sense that they'd be running for the guaranteed paycheck from ESPN that the ACC provides, rather than what the Big East was doing, taking the risk of going on the open market.

Whether or not you agree that the community up there in upstate is in bad shape, I don't care.

But I don't understand why people that have anythign to do with syracuse can be excited about a yearly $15million paycheck, for a university with a billion dollar endowment, in a small market community (struggling or not).....and understand what comes along with it.

What comes along with that 14 team scheduling in the ACC, is that the only annual home and home partner for all sports (football and basketball most important) is Boston College. That's fact, it came out a week ago. THat means that Duke, UNC, etc.... all those programs that you think you are going to get, are only coming Syracuse every other year. You're also playing post season b-ball in Greensboro instead of MSG. Syracuse, through the ACC, has now given up All Tiers of broadcasting to the ACC for all sports. THat means Syracuse doesn't get any say in when they will be playing football games. Thursday night football, get used to it. Wait never mind that, Wednesday night football get used to it, because the NFL just announced a full slate of thursday night games coming, and espn isgoing to be stupid enough to go head ot head with the NFL, with ACC football. And all of that, for the next quarter century. for accepting approx $8mill a more a year in a guaranteed paycheck, instead of going on the open market with the Big East.

You may not believe me, but I don't care about that either. THere are people that have supported Syracuse for a very long time, that are not happy at all with this move, especially after the scheduling partnership with BC came out.

THey already had an agreement in place to start scheduling BC again as a non-conf opponent..
 

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This is simple.

Football makes the money. Syracuse wants money. Playing North Carolina, Florida State, BC, Pitt, Maryland etc. will make a lot more money than playing, oh, ANYBODY in the reconstituted Big East. Anybody. Every one of those programs will bring more fans (even BC, maybe 15-10 against BSU fans) and generate a LOT more buzz and excitement in the community, which is what drives fundraising.

Carl, you are the only one here who thinks this conference is anything but a complete mess/failure/pathetic joke. Maybe it's time to stop with the 29 paragraph missives.

When you are stark-raving mad that everyone is against you, the best thing to do is to look in the mirror. That's where you'll find the person who is wrong on this.
 
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This is simple.

Football makes the money. Syracuse wants money. Playing North Carolina, Florida State, BC, Pitt, Maryland etc. will make a lot more money than playing, oh, ANYBODY in the reconstituted Big East. Anybody. Every one of those programs will bring more fans (even BC, maybe 15-10 against BSU fans) and generate a LOT more buzz and excitement in the community, which is what drives fundraising.

Carl, you are the only one here who thinks this conference is anything but a complete mess/failure/pathetic joke. Maybe it's time to stop with the 29 paragraph missives.

When you are stark-raving mad that everyone is against you, the best thing to do is to look in the mirror. That's where you'll find the person who is wrong on this.

It's going to come down to recruiting. As it always does. There's a history, model, to follow here in BC. And I've yet to hear anyone justify how getting tied to BC as the only home and home annual for sports scheduling is going to be a good thing. Every single argument you present, is the exact same thing that BC presented in 2003-2004. Syracuse as a better presence in it's own market than BC, for sure, but it's still a tiny market, in the national scale. Athletically, it's going to come down to recruiting and competition level.

When Miami came north in 1991, they were a program that was regularly competiting for national titles. When VTech came east, in 1991 in football only, and were begging to join the Big East in all sports, they were a nationally prominent program, and continued to compete for national titles.

When Miami and VTech went south, they wanted Syracuse - the ACC wanted Syracuse, Syracuse was still a nationally prominent football program even though Pasqualoni was having a couple down years, having a bunch of newborns and trying to keep a family together, will make a coach go through some rough spots.

Miami, well Miami since 2002. BC has been ranked as high as #2 since going south, but what has that done for them? V.Tech, continues to compete.

Syracuse going south in 2012, is much more like BC going south in 2004 than Miami and V.Tech coming north and east in 1991. And on top that, getting tied to Boston College?

I'd be tting a brick if I were a syracuse athletic fan that understood anything about intercollegiate athletics.

It's going to come down to the ability to recruit - FOR ALL SPORTS - or Syracuse is going the route of BC. It's clear as day.

I'd be very, very concerned about the Athletic Director at Syracuse, and how they go about staffing their athletic department, specifically the football program, and the basketball program. SU basketball isn't going to have Boeheim forever.
 
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Carl, you are the only one here who thinks this conference is anything but a complete mess/failure/pathetic joke. Maybe it's time to stop with the 29 paragraph missives.

I'm also one the only ones here, that really understands the intercollegiate sports landscape. Conferences come and go pal, they come and go. Competition does not. Only the level of competition changes. If the big east fractured, you can clearly call it a failure. Until any conference folds up shopt, you don't call it a pathetic joke. By saying as much, you have no clue how much money, and how many lives are affected by the things being discussed around here. And trust me, the failure of the big east conference, is somethign that I would have embraced since 1997, up until the things I've seen from leadership coming out of providence, just this year.

There is absolutely ZERO reason to think that the level of competition in the Big East is going to change,in any sport. Contrary to the ESPN media empire, the level of competition in the Big East, in all sports, is equal to, if not better, than any level of competition anywhere in the country.

But go ahead, continue with the everyone else is better off, and woe is me crap.
 
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There is absolutely ZERO reason to think that the level of competition in the Big East is going to change,in any sport. Contrary to the ESPN media empire, the level of competition in the Big East, in all sports, is equal to, if not better, than any level of competition anywhere in the country.

But go ahead, continue with the everyone else is better off, and woe is me crap.


Do you really read what you write? The one good thing that can be said about this reshuffling is that the quality of Big East football on the field has not changed by this.

But if you don't think the level of basketball has gone down with the loss of Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, you really are insane. And if you don't see that we've lost prestige with the football changes, even if the prestige isn't backed up by play on the field, you have no business trumpeting to the world how much better you understand things than anyone else. And this is coming from someone who is perfectly willing to make lemonade out of lemons while we wait. But not to drink unsweetened lemon juice and pretend it's lemonade..
 
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Carl, you are the only one here who thinks this conference is anything but a complete mess/failure/pathetic joke. Maybe it's time to stop with the 29 paragraph missives.

When you are stark-raving mad that everyone is against you, the best thing to do is to look in the mirror. That's where you'll find the person who is wrong on this.

This conference is our home and it is far from a joke. Only a stark raving mad lunatic would continuously crap all over their house the way you have been. You really need to find another team to root for.
 
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This conference is our home and it is far from a joke. Only a stark raving mad lunatic would continuously crap all over their house the way you have been. You really need to find another team to root for.

I agree with this too by the way. We have, in terms of quality, a BCS football conference and we have, in terms of quality, a power basketball conference. Geography, academic reputations and athletic prestige have taken a big hit. It all is what it all is. But we're not dead and buried as a program, and constant crapping on it can in fact make it worse by discouraging fans from going, watching and donating.
 

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This conference is our home and it is far from a joke.

It has teams in Connecticut, San Diego and Boise. One is a highly respected institution of higher learning, one is a commuter school and the other is worse than Tunxis.

AND it still has Rutgers. The entire nation is laughing.
 
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It has teams in Connecticut, San Diego and Boise. One is a highly respected institution of higher learning, one is a commuter school and the other is worse than Tunxis.

AND it still has Rutgers. The entire nation is laughing.

The nation is not spewing their personal misery into the Boneyard, you are. Please stop or going away.
 
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It has teams in Connecticut, San Diego and Boise. One is a highly respected institution of higher learning, one is a commuter school and the other is worse than Tunxis.

AND it still has Rutgers. The entire nation is laughing.
What is the alternative? We are where we are. I look forward to seeing Boise State play football at The Rent. Memphis not so much. This is the best we've got, I don't think anyone feels its ideal, but for as bad as our league is supposed to be, you see teams leaving their conferences to come here.
 

zls44

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What is the alternative? We are where we are. I look forward to seeing Boise State play football at The Rent. Memphis not so much. This is the best we've got, I don't think anyone feels its ideal, but for as bad as our league is supposed to be, you see teams leaving their conferences to come here.

Just go to 9 teams. Why do we need so many other crappy teams? The Big East Football Championship Game? Are you kidding?
 
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What is the alternative? We are where we are. I look forward to seeing Boise State play football at The Rent. Memphis not so much. This is the best we've got, I don't think anyone feels its ideal, but for as bad as our league is supposed to be, you see teams leaving their conferences to come here.

It seems like people are just arguing semantics. The Big East is still clearly a step up from the lower tier Division 1 football concerences like Con-USA/Mountain West. It's also a step down from the Top conferences SEC/Big 10.

The move to add Boise State helps the conference tread water in football to a certain extent. Of course the Big East was not highly thought of to begin with. Then it lost its two best programs in Miami and VT. Now it loses it's next best in West Virginia. The entire conference is made up of schools that the BCS ignored less than 10 years ago outside of Rutgers and UConn (who wasn't even playing Division 1 football). That seems like the conference is backtracking from already being considered a medicore conference.

Now maybe the new additions rise up to the level of BCS play rather than bring down the overall play to Conference USA levels. But it's all speculative and all kind of a crappy outcome no matter what.

That said, it could be worse. A conference squarely in the middle of football and still on the high end in basketball is not bad. It's just not ideal and not where UConn would like to be.
 

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This is simple.

Football makes the money. Syracuse wants money. Playing North Carolina, Florida State, BC, Pitt, Maryland etc. will make a lot more money than playing, oh, ANYBODY in the reconstituted Big East. Anybody. Every one of those programs will bring more fans (even BC, maybe 15-10 against BSU fans) and generate a LOT more buzz and excitement in the community, which is what drives fundraising.

Carl, you are the only one here who thinks this conference is anything but a complete mess/failure/pathetic joke. Maybe it's time to stop with the 29 paragraph missives.

When you are stark-raving mad that everyone is against you, the best thing to do is to look in the mirror. That's where you'll find the person who is wrong on this.
Gotta tell you zls, you should go have a scotch or something. You're taking this much too persaonlly.
 
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I've got two really great ideas:

1) Let's keep the comments within a thread relatively close to what the subject of the thread is. My first thought was wow, 7 pages of information/conversation about the potential of FSU and Clemson skirting the ACC for the Big XII. then I realize what a lot of these posts are. Constant bitching about our current/future conference and our fellow universities. Followed by the understandable defense of the hand we're dealt. Which leads to #2.

2) Open up a thread titled "I hate our conference and here's why" and let all the hate flow into there so the majority of us can be spared the doom and gloom that shows up in so many of these threads.
 

Dann

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Gotta tell you zls, you should go have a scotch or something. You're taking this much too persaonlly.

it is personal for alot of people. alot of people here went to uconn or have invested $$ into the school and the athletic programs. people spend hours a week watching uconn games or traveling to events.

if you were a diehard yankee fan and the red sox packed up and left for the nl east and the jays/o's left for the al central, would you be happy that Bud called up the bridgeport bluefish and the long island ducks to join the division.
 
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Do you really read what you write? The one good thing that can be said about this reshuffling is that the quality of Big East football on the field has not changed by this.

But if you don't think the level of basketball has gone down with the loss of Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, you really are insane. And if you don't see that we've lost prestige with the football changes, even if the prestige isn't backed up by play on the field, you have no business trumpeting to the world how much better you understand things than anyone else. And this is coming from someone who is perfectly willing to make lemonade out of lemons while we wait. But not to drink unsweetened lemon juice and pretend it's lemonade..

Nope, not when I get going really fast. Not til later.

Of course basketball has taken a step down with the three programs going. We've gone from undisputed heads and shoulders above the rest of the country in basketball, to a legitimate argument as to whether or not we've got the best basketball conference in the country. How the hell do you think the membership of this conference that hasn't cared about football until this year has finally opened their eyes.

As for football, I don't have the energy right now to look, but Holgorsen's post Orange Bowl comments about the Big East, and the level of competition. I don't think he was saying that to fluff the conference that WVU is hell bent on leaving.

Women's basketball? Baseball? On down the line. Upon further review, yes I stand by waht I originially wrote. Prestige? Big East football has never had it from the media, and the leadership (and by that I mean, the commissioner, acting on behalf of the conference membership) allowed it. The moment when we could have snared the media and run with it, in 2002, after the runs of VTech and Miami to the national title games, and the secondary runs of Syracuse and WVU behind them, got crapped on in front of the biggest media market and presence in teh world, for St. John's basketball.

Only way that ever changes, the prestige thing in the media, is for the leadership to promote it like hell, and for the teams to go out and win the big games. It's a two sided affair. We have yet to both together. WE've won the games, and had no leadership out there in front. I believe we've got the leadership now, and it's on the football programs to go out and win, and I'm excited as hell.

Win the games. Just win baby.
 
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This board is getting really hard to read. And folks anger with the realignment situation is spewing over in to personal attacks on each other.

We did not replace the Red Sox w/the Bluefish. We did not have the Red Sox in the BE. And the Bluefish were not invited here. We are bringing in 2 teams who had a legitimate claim to play in a BCS bowl last year. When we replace Louisville w/Temple, trust me, I'll moan. But for now we have the best of a bad situation - you can focus on the best or the bad. But it'd be nice, regardless of the side of the argument you select, to focus on the message and not the messenger.

At some point, the ACC will come calling. It may take awhile. Deal with it. Then we can talk about how much better Duke is than Memphis at football.

And if anyone here knew the inner workings of the NCAA, the Big East, UConn, intercollegiate sports, or coaching a BCS team, I would hope they are not be typing here. They should be focused on the job at hand.
 
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I'd be tting a brick if I were a syracuse athletic fan that understood anything about intercollegiate athletics.
I'd be very, very concerned about the Athletic Director at Syracuse, and how they go about staffing their athletic department, specifically the football program, and the basketball program. SU basketball isn't going to have Boeheim forever.
Don't you think you can insert Uconn and Calhoun in this statement? Everything you wrote about Cuse can be said about Uconn. Cuse is moving to a southern conference. Uconn is now part of a midwestern/southern/western conference. As of right now, Uconn and Syracuse are very much at the same point in terms of on the field/court performance. Both will need to replace legends as BB coach in the next 5-7 years with Uconn looking like they will need to make that replacement first. Both FB programs are not exactly killing it right now in both on the field results and recruiting. You could argue that Cuse has a slight advantage with an existing AD in place, no recent turnover at the top of the university and moving into a more stable conference environment that will be always near the top of the BB world (currently the most important and successful sport for both Cuse and Uconn). Uconn now becomes the second longest football member in the conference at less than 10 years and is the northern outpost in the BB part of the conference that has as much a southern flavor to it as the ACC.

It is great to be supportive and proud of Uconn but to predict failure of Cuse or Pitt because of this move and unbelievable success for Uconn as part of this national monster conference does not seem based in reality. I think more than a few Uconn fans are also tting a brick if they understand anything about intercollegiate athletics. You can see it on this board.
 

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it is personal for alot of people. alot of people here went to uconn or have invested $$ into the school and the athletic programs. people spend hours a week watching uconn games or traveling to events.

if you were a diehard yankee fan and the red sox packed up and left for the nl east and the jays/o's left for the al central, would you be happy that Bud called up the bridgeport bluefish and the long island ducks to join the division.
Dan, I think my UConn pedigree is as good as anyone else's: graduated in '78, married a '77, born to a '50, most of my family has been to the school at one time or another. I'm not happy about the whole realignment and the destruction of the BE that was both caused by the shortsightedness of Providence and the greed of organizations like ESPN, yada yada yada. At the end of the day we can only play who we can play and all this other stuff won't matter a wit. Now Zls44 is getting personal and while everyone is entitiled to their opinion - I'm just suggesting if it pisses you off to read someone's posts, we have this wonderful ability to "ignore" them. I have several people I "ignore"!
 
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