FSU and Clemson to Big XII?

[HuskyHawk]

We became prominent because of sports? Not because "HuskyHawk" attended?

So "HuskyHawks" prestigious degree was built on the backs of academic stalwarts like Chris Smith, Nadav Henefeld, Dan Cyrulic, Cliff Robinson, and Donyell Marshall and not our association with St Johns?

I guess since the Big East became prominent because of Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Patrick Ewing and Pearl Washington, HuskyHawk also owes some of his academic presitge to those guys.

Since I attended at the time of Cliff Robinson...I'll choose otherwise.

I will also choose to believe that the UConn 2000 effort lead to the improved rankings. Hoops helped. Exposure drives applications, and more applications drives selectivity. SAT scores go up.

 

[Waquoit]

I will also choose to believe that the UConn 2000 effort lead to the improved rankings. Hoops helped. Exposure drives applications, and more applications drives selectivity. SAT scores go up.

Hoops didn't "help". Hoops was the the reason UConn 2000 saw the light of day.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Here's the thing, sport.

I actually know the people I'm talking about.

I don't give a rat's a@@ who you say you know, or who you actually know. Syracuse University is not in great shape. Not academically, not financially, and not athletically. The university has seen a constant decline over the past decade. They've gone the route of the backstabbing and secured a guaranteed paycheck for awhile, by selling evrything they've got athletically, to ESPN. That's what's happened.

SU, most definitely was invited to the ACC in 2003, and Virginia Tech and the state government of Virginia blocked it. THe people that were excited then, most certainly are excited now. Doesn't include everyone, pal. And there are plenty of people that are certainly beginning to regret what's happening, well before it's even happened.

you keep on complaining though.

I, on the other hand, prefer to see the positive side of things, and focus on the things that matter, and can be controlled. THe future of the University of Connecticut is quite bright, and most importantly - our future is in our own hands.

Syracuse, and it's success, athletically, is now tied directly to it's only home and home annual partner - Boston College. All of their media rights, - ALL of it, is owned by ESPN for the next quarter century.

 

[upstater]

The Upstate market may "suck" - and the economy has for the longest time - but somehow Syracuse still draws more fans than every other team in America not named "Kentucky" at home, and not named "Duke" on the road. We are hardly BC. If you live in Upstate, you know that.

I agree with Pudge on this. Very little attention is paid to college sports in Albany, Buffalo and Rochester. I see almost none of it everywhere I go. Maybe a little more in Rochester than the other 2. I don't know what Binghamton's like, I never lived there.

I don't think this is a question of selling tickets. Even in Buffalo, you have 50 hockey games a year selling out at VERY HIGH ticket prices on average, not to mention 8 pro football games. These cities can attract fans especially in the heart of winter.

 

[RS9999X]

I don't give a rat's a@@ who you say you know, or who you actually know. Syracuse University is not in great shape. Not academically, not financially, and not athletically. The university has seen a constant decline over the past decade. They've gone the route of the backstabbing and secured a guaranteed paycheck for awhile, by selling evrything they've got athletically, to ESPN. That's what's happened.
.

The university and Syracuse area were in decline in the 70s when I lived there. Football was an embarrassment and basketball was new. Carrier Corp and others were down-sizing and moving production South. Who in their right mind would build that White Elephant? Ahhh...a Governor desperate for re-election. A governor who knew a monstrosity, an obscene gesture of government excess was needed to prove he cared about Central New York as something more than a bunch of wallets to be raped by Albany and New York City. Selling the naming rights? Brilliant! Controversial at the time but UTC/Carrier needed some good press to justify their exodus from Central New York. (The exact same ploy as the UTC/Pratt PR move that built The Rent. Here's a bone, some vacant land, to make you feel better about the jobs we're shipping overseas).

BC has a little different problem. The Carrier Dome funding process, at its heart ,is like the Romans building a colliseum for gladiator matches in the provinces while they rape the local resources and bed the pretty women. Another NY Governor will come along and need those upstate votes again and a place for press opportunities during the State Fair and gladiator matches and Tractor Pulls..

 

[Waquoit]

Who in their right mind would build that White Elephant?

Let's be honest, the buliding has been used too many times over too many years by too many people to be labeled a White Elephant.

 

[gioff23]

Pick this all up from the East Coast?

From someone that actually follows the B12 and lives in B12 territory, the league itself is actually quite fine. It's quieter and more peaceful than it has been in the last 10 years. As much as people want to see the B12 explode, it's not going to. The league weathered a storm that has been brewing since 1996, took some hits, came out the other side.

Thinking that the B12 is going to fall apart is nothing but naive, wishful thinking.

Does that mean you live in Morgantown?
While you may continue to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, the B12 is on life support (er, Bevo support). The conference stays together as long as either Larry Scott says so or UT starts looking away from its "committed" partners. I am not wishing for it - heck, I wish everything would go back a few years - but I will make you a quiet little bet that the B12's future is as perilous as the Colts in Baltimore were in the mid 70s.

 

[Jericho]

Doesn't matter if the ACC is stuck in a bad deal until the middle of the next decade while the B12 will be on the open market in 3 years.

What bad the deal? The ACC is negotiating a new deal right now. While it does not match the Pac 12/Big 10 deals and is long running, it's not wildly bad either. Why is there optimism in the unknown that the Big 12 is going get a big money deal better than everyone else? You're effectively paying for Texas and OU

 

[RS9999X]

Let's be honest, the buliding has been used too many times over too many years by too many people to be labeled a White Elephant.

Today yes. Before it was built and when it was proposed? A crazy ass idea. In hindsight it's the original "build it and they will come". No one admits opposing the Dome today.

The good old days: Back when Upstate NY was seriously proposing secession and a two-state solution creatively called Upstate and Downstate with Albany given an ultimatum to finally decide between the two.

It's back in play again (and in all bad economies)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_New_York#Upstate_secession

Then there was the 1969 attempt to free NYC from the small, white minds of Upstate NY by Normal Mailer......

 

[Jericho]

I've seen it reported higher but for the sake of argument even if it's $15M now that is the same thing the ACC is going to lock themselves into until 2026 when they finalize with ESPN. The B12 has the potential to make way more money in the near term. When the B12 signs a new contract in 2015 they'll easily be in the ballpark with the P12 and B10.

Maybe so, but $20 million (in the ballpark with the Pac 12/Big 10) is not the same as $35 million (what's supposedly being "promised"). And is the roughly $5 million a year going to be enough to make Clemson move? Color me skeptical...

 

[RS9999X]

As to the original point: The funding for the Carrier Dome, past, present and future, has nothing to do with BC and Conte and anything else Boston. The funding of a new football stadium in Western Mass for UMass? That's a far better analogy for building a huge white elephant in the Springfield area. A Coliseum that says to Western Mass and Springfield: "Boston still cares-- you bankrupt crime-ridden hellhole".

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Maybe so, but $20 million (in the ballpark with the Pac 12/Big 10) is not the same as $35 million (what's supposedly being "promised"). And is the roughly $5 million a year going to be enough to make Clemson move? Color me skeptical...

That's the question. However there can be no doubt that they would make much more over the course of the next decade in the B12 than they can hope to make in the ACC. An extra $5M a year between 2016 and 2026 is an extra $50M per school. That's a whole lot of coin. I think they are in wait and see mode. If the renegotiated deal really is only an extra million or two I think the chances are high that they would explore their options.

 

[Jericho]

I have given that thought and if academics meant anything we'd actually be joining our brethren in the big10, where most of the schools are state universities with big research programs. For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost. And all the schools on probation compared to the BE well, the ACC is not as perfect a fit as we like to think.

Academics mean a ton to a university president and they sign off on an switch of conferences. Does not matter what the fans or coaches or even AD wants. The President will have to be sold on any move.

The important part of your post is the claim of "joining our brethren in the big10". It would happen in a nanosecond if it was a viable option. The problem is the Big 10 doesn't want UConn (no reason to add UConn). But they'd never consider a West Virginia (due to academics).

And as has been pointed out, Miami is a quite good school. Here's a quick breakdown with rankings using the US News and World Report link posted earlier:

ACC: Duke (10), Virginia (25), Wake Forest (25), North Carolina (29), Boston College (31), Georgia Tech (35), Miami (38), Maryland (55), Pittsburgh (58), Syracuse (62), Clemson (68), Virginia Tech (71), Florida State (101), NC State (101)

Big East: Notre Dame (19), Georgetown (22), UConn (58), Smu (62), Rutgers (68)

Note - I stopped at 101 since the ACC had no schools left

 

[upstater]

Academics mean a ton to a university president and they sign off on an switch of conferences. Does not matter what the fans or coaches or even AD wants. The President will have to be sold on any move.

The important part of your post is the claim of "joining our brethren in the big10". It would happen in a nanosecond if it was a viable option. The problem is the Big 10 doesn't want UConn (no reason to add UConn). But they'd never consider a West Virginia (due to academics).

And as has been pointed out, Miami is a quite good school. Here's a quick breakdown with rankings using the US News and World Report link posted earlier:

ACC: Duke (10), Virginia (25), Wake Forest (25), North Carolina (29), Boston College (31), Georgia Tech (35), Miami (38), Maryland (55), Pittsburgh (58), Syracuse (62), Clemson (68), Virginia Tech (71), Florida State (101), NC State (101)

Big East: Notre Dame (19), Georgetown (22), UConn (58), Smu (62), Rutgers (68)

Note - I stopped at 101 since the ACC had no schools left

Notre Dame is trying to stay in a conference with Memphis, Boise and Houston when it could join the Big 10 whenever it wanted.

That's how much academics mean to university presidents.

 

[zls44]

Syracuse University is not in great shape. Not academically, not financially, and not athletically.

This just isn't true. I don't know any better way to explain it.

 

[Carl Spackler]

This just isn't true. I don't know any better way to explain it.

Funny then, how the Chancellor up there graciously "withdrew" from the AAU 6 months ago, rather than face the embarrassment of getting kicked out.

http://chronicle.com/article/Syracuse-U-Facing-a-Forced/127363/

 

[Dann]

i don't want to start more of a arguement but i do have a question.

How close is UConn to being a AAU member? i know recently they have dumped $$ into research and more grants and what ever else. I was told last fall that the school was close to being able to apply and get in? Isn't it a small group of schools in that and they don't like making the group bigger?

 

[Jericho]

Notre Dame is trying to stay in a conference with Memphis, Boise and Houston when it could join the Big 10 whenever it wanted.

That's how much academics mean to university presidents.

No, Notre Dame is trying to remain independent in football. Sticking their other sports with Memphis, Boise St. (who they actually do not share anything with as Boise State is football only and Notre Dame is everything but football), and Houston is what they're willing to accept to achieve that goal.

If Notre Dame full on joined a conference, the above list is why it won't be the Big East (it'll be the Big 10 or the ACC)

 

[Carl Spackler]

i don't want to start more of a arguement but i do have a question.

How close is UConn to being a AAU member? i know recently they have dumped $$ into research and more grants and what ever else. I was told last fall that the school was close to being able to apply and get in? Isn't it a small group of schools in that and they don't like making the group bigger?

I'll put it this way. Getting our research profile as a University arrow pointing due north is very high on the priority list for President Herbst. We're certainly heading toward AAU membership criteria, where Syracuse, clearly is heading due south over the past 10 years, after having been a member for 45 years.

After meeting basic criteria, then, as in anything else, it's a matter of politics.

 

[mavblues]

So bottom line - does Syracuse suck or not?

 

[Carl Spackler]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3NLibg_Cn8jsTjO8g&sig2=K6r4PZTDSjv_mDjxMRqPXw

Hopefully that link works, can't figure out how to get the PDF on here, but that's the current AAU membership guidelines/principles.

I had no idea that Syracuse was out, until another poster pointed it out to me recently that since 2002 or so, what's been happening up there.

Truth is, that if you look at the endowment, and you look at donations and stuff like that, the numbers are pointing up, they've seen an increase in donorship in the past year, that has offset an approx $300 million dollar loss they took a 5 years ago.

Research funding is also on the rise, but it's all local and state funding, and it's all basically been regeared toward projects to help the local community as much as possible.

I'm sure there are people around here that will argue that all of this is agood thing for Syracuse, but to me, it's a very clear sign of a university that is entirely focused on self preservation, in a struggling community and the athletics move to the ACC and the way it's been done, makes perfect sense.

They needed a guaranteed paycheck up there in Syracuse.

I still would be shaking in my boots, if all of my broadcasting rights for all of my athletic department for the next 20+ years hinged on a home and home partnership for scheduling with Boston College, and the whims of ESPN to fill their airtime.

FYI: UConn has taken what was one of the smallest endowments in the entire country for an institution with our profile and increased it by 20% in one year in 2011, through the uconn foundation by raising approx. $50mill and got the endowment figure up to approx $315 mill. Syracuse endowment is much larger, approaching $1bill, if not more, and has been much larger historically.

It all starts with leadership from the top, we've got a president now, who doesn't think small time, we need an AD that doesn't think small time, because we've most certainly got 2 basketball coaches, and now a football coach in the three money makers that haven't thought small time, at any point in their careers, and certainly don't now.

The growth potential of UConn, is a reservoir just waiting to be tapped. In all aspects.

 

[upstater]

No, Notre Dame is trying to remain independent in football. Sticking their other sports with Memphis, Boise St. (who they actually do not share anything with as Boise State is football only and Notre Dame is everything but football), and Houston is what they're willing to accept to achieve that goal.

If Notre Dame full on joined a conference, the above list is why it won't be the Big East (it'll be the Big 10 or the ACC)

If ND joins a conference, it won't be because of academics. All their other sports other than football will be scheduling the BE. So why does football suddenly make a hair's bit of difference to the academic side? It makes no sense. Is football the only sport that impacts academics?

 

[upstater]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCwQFjAB&url=http://www.aau.edu/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10972&ei=JCg0T7uCEITw0gHooZi8Ag&usg=AFQjCNFuPOGwP7R4_3NLibg_Cn8jsTjO8g&sig2=K6r4PZTDSjv_mDjxMRqPXw

Hopefully that link works, can't figure out how to get the PDF on here, but that's the current AAU membership guidelines/principles.

I had no idea that Syracuse was out, until another poster pointed it out to me recently that since 2002 or so, what's been happening up there.

Truth is, that if you look at the endowment, and you look at donations and stuff like that, the numbers are pointing up, they've seen an increase in donorship in the past year, that has offset an approx $300 million dollar loss they took a 5 years ago.

Research funding is also on the rise, but it's all local and state funding, and it's all basically been regeared toward projects to help the local community as much as possible.

I'm sure there are people around here that will argue that all of this is agood thing for Syracuse, but to me, it's a very clear sign of a university that is entirely focused on self preservation, in a struggling community and the athletics move to the ACC and the way it's been done, makes perfect sense.

They needed a guaranteed paycheck up there in Syracuse.

I still would be shaking in my boots, if all of my broadcasting rights for all of my athletic department for the next 20+ years hinged on a home and home partnership for scheduling with Boston College, and the whims of ESPN to fill their airtime.

FYI: UConn has taken what was one of the smallest endowments in the entire country for an institution with our profile and increased it by 20% in one year in 2011, through the uconn foundation by raising approx. $50mill and got the endowment figure up to approx $315 mill. Syracuse endowment is much larger, approaching $1bill, if not more, and has been much larger historically.

It all starts with leadership from the top, we've got a president now, who doesn't think small time, we need an AD that doesn't think small time, because we've most certainly got 2 basketball coaches, and now a football coach in the three money makers that haven't thought small time, at any point in their careers, and certainly don't now.

The growth potential of UConn, is a reservoir just waiting to be tapped. In all aspects.

The AAU is kicking members out because the nation's research budget has been slashed.

The AAU is not an academic organization as much as it is a lobbying group. Headquarters on K Street. With less $$ to go around, they are slashing. Cuse didn't run afoul of the org so much as the org sees less pie to go around in the future. There have literally been letters sent out signalling that more culling is in the works.

 

[zls44]

Funny then, how the Chancellor up there graciously "withdrew" from the AAU 6 months ago, rather than face the embarrassment of getting kicked out.

http://chronicle.com/article/Syracuse-U-Facing-a-Forced/127363/

They aren't hurting for money. Ok? Not in any way, shape or form. They are incredibly succesful with fundraising and will be FAR FAR moreso than UConn going forward.

You talk about the ESPN contract like it's a bad thing. You think a guaranteed $15-17 million a year for the next 15 years is a bad thing? Know what's worse? Guaranteed $5-10 million a year the next 15 years.

 

[upstater]

i don't want to start more of a arguement but i do have a question.

How close is UConn to being a AAU member? i know recently they have dumped $$ into research and more grants and what ever else. I was told last fall that the school was close to being able to apply and get in? Isn't it a small group of schools in that and they don't like making the group bigger?

Not very close. The AAU is cutting, not adding. Very little UConn can do at this point. It's not a matter of surpassing the bottom quarter of the AAU. It's a matter of vaulting into the third quarter.