FSU and Clemson to Big XII?

[HartbeatHusky]

I'm stealing directly from Frank the Tank (a very good blog by the way), when he says...

"Let’s put it another way: once you get past Texas and Oklahoma, is there any other current Big 12 school that is more valuable than Virginia Tech,Virginia, Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina, Miami, Maryland, Georgia Tech or N.C. State? Heck, is there any other non-UT/OU Big 12 school that would be picked by the Big Ten or SEC (who have more poaching power than anyone) over any ACC school besides maybe Wake Forest?"

More of his thoughts here...
http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2...his-to-the-big-east-and-b1g-playoff-proposal/

Doesn't matter if the ACC is stuck in a bad deal until the middle of the next decade while the B12 will be on the open market in 3 years.

 

[Fishy]

Funny, you'll blast somebody for accepting what they read somebody write on a message board as truth, but then you go and make a statement like this, all actual evidence to the contrary.

Here's the thing, sport.

I actually know the people I'm talking about.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

This report

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/02/06/Colleges/ACC-TV.aspx

has the Big 12 at around $15 and the Pac 12/Big 10 both at around $21 million

I've seen it reported higher but for the sake of argument even if it's $15M now that is the same thing the ACC is going to lock themselves into until 2026 when they finalize with ESPN. The B12 has the potential to make way more money in the near term. When the B12 signs a new contract in 2015 they'll easily be in the ballpark with the P12 and B10.

 

[businesslawyer]

Here's the thing, sport.

I actually know the people I'm talking about.

And in a nutshell, that is what is so unbelievable about people's use of the internet. Every sentence people read is given the same credibility, whether it's a lunatic talking about genetic science, a Syracuse administrator talking about what Syracuse wants, or a business lawyer talking about business law. For reasons I don't get, some want to believe that all words online have the same credibility/chance of being correct.

 

[junglehusky]

Carl, the NNBE could get a contract worth double the ACC's, but UConn would still jump ship if they got an offer. You may like a stable Big East but the thing is it would be a stable relationship WITH FRIKKIN MEMPHIS AND SAN DIEGO STATE AND SMU AND HOUSTON. You could make a personal guarantee to Herbst and the bigwigs that UConn would be a perrenial .500 team and make minor bowls for the rest of eternity and they'd take it because it would beat being stuck forever with FRIKKIN MEMPHIS ETC.

UConn may never get an offer, but if it does, the academic reputation of the ACC will trump whatever football cachet Boise etc. can bring. Even if Marinatto gets his dream NBC contract, it will STILL get trumped by academics. Memphis just sealed the deal.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think everybody needs to drop this knee jerk reaction of wanting to go to the ACC. What really makes you think the ACC is better than the Big East moving forward? Seriously? It's not. The only reason the ACC would be an attractive home for UConn athletics is if the Big East conference stops doing business. There's a very powerful force out there in intercollegiate athletics, that doesn't want the Big East to go away. N.D.

Notre Dame is not going to the ACC. The only way Notre Dame ever joins a conference,any conference, in football, happens for one of two reasons. The creation of a national playoff system for a national champion that is based entirely on conference champions (and it would be so freaking easy to put it in place, if not for all the money that flows through the current BCS system). and #2, if the Big East conference fails to provide a home foe all of the other sports that Notre Dame needs to field, to maintain division 1-A status as a football program.

If the Big East conference stops playing football as a 1-A conference, and the 1-A teams all go elsewhere, Notre Dame would be forced to find another home for their sports, or go back to the headaches that drove Penn State and Miami to the Big East conference so many years ago. PSU didn't get in, Miami did. Notre Dame, 4 years after Miami, manged to join the Big East, but keep football separate with an individual broadcasting contract with NBC and bulding an individual relationship with the BCS.

Notre Dame, clearly, being in position they are with the Big East, is not going to let the Big East conference fail.

Seriously?

The University of Virginia. Possibly the top public school in America, steeped in tradition...or Boise State, one of the worst. Duke or Houston, a commuter school a step above a commuter college. North Carolina, another great institution, or San Diego State. Georgia Tech, another great school, or perhaps Memphis? Wake Forest another top University, or maybe a commuter school in Tampa called USF. It goes on and on. The ACC is full of some of the best, most prestigious universities in America. I don't give a crap about whether a bunch of guys who couldn't even get into those schools can beat them at football, you want to associate with quality institutions, not the dregs of American colleges.

 

[zls44]

Id like to throw in that, like Fishy, I too know folks high up on the Syracuse food chain. Theyre thrilled, donations are way up, and it's because of the move, NOT the number one ranked team.

Carl is so deep in denial, it's sad. He seems like a genuinely nice chap. Hes just wrong on this. Completely.

 

[junglehusky]

Hawk, I couldn't agree more. I was OK with Cincinatti, Louisville and USF as you could make a case those institutions were in the process of beefing up their academics, perhaps a few years behind UConn's trajectory but with a bit lower ceiling for the forseeable future. SMU, good reputation, smaller religious school with a different mission, sort of like a Texas version of Villanova. The case is weaker for Houston. They have to compete more directly with other good state schools for resources and students. Boise, Memphis, are just not peer institutions with UConn. They're good at one sport each, but they don't have much else to offer.

 

[Adios]

We just became academically prominent recently. Our exposure through sports was a factor that helped catapult our academic status. The campus looks nothing like what it did 20 years ago. The purpose of the Big East seems to have been developing schools and athletic departments, riding the backs of some powerful Catholic schools. We need a tournament involving ND, SMU and BYU. That would be interesting, too.

It's unreal how much UConn has developed over the last 25 years. We were a friggin' agricultural school!

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

The only relevant fact here is that if the BCS removes all auto bids and the BCS bowls go to open season bidding, the Big East is effectively a useless piece of junk. Virtually no Big East team will ever get selected to a BCS bowl in this scenario, and thus if the ACC move opens, it is an absolute must that we take it. That football conference wouldn't be the best, but it'd be FAR more stable, travel would be much easier, it would have a stranglehold on the major northeast media markets and the eastern seaboard, and will have enough name recognition that teams would get some BCS invites. Staying with UCF, San Diego State, and SMU is not a ticket to long term success.

 

[metsfan2323]

I personally don't understand the need to trash our new members, I'm glad these schools wanted to join the Big East. The only alternative under UCONN's control, and I emphasize the word control, was to join Conference USA or the MAC. I'm really glad we have a home going forward that isn't named the MAC or CUSA.

In spite of all the gloom and doom being distributed on this board I still think the Big East football product will improve over what it has been the last 8 years with 8 very mediocre teams.

 

[zls44]

The only alternative under UCONN's control, and I emphasize the word control, was to join Conference USA or the MAC. I'm really glad we have a home going forward that isn't named the MAC or CUSA.

We did, and we do.

 

[metsfan2323]

We just became academically prominent recently. Our exposure through sports was a factor that helped catapult our academic status. The campus looks nothing like what it did 20 years ago. The purpose of the Big East seems to have been developing schools and athletic departments, riding the backs of some powerful Catholic schools. We need a tournament involving ND, SMU and BYU. That would be interesting, too.

It's unreal how much UConn has developed over the last 25 years. We were a friggin' agricultural school!

We became prominent because of sports? Not because "HuskyHawk" attended?

So "HuskyHawks" prestigious degree was built on the backs of academic stalwarts like Chris Smith, Nadav Henefeld, Dan Cyrulic, Cliff Robinson, and Donyell Marshall and not our association with St Johns?

I guess since the Big East became prominent because of Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Patrick Ewing and Pearl Washington, HuskyHawk also owes some of his academic presitge to those guys.

 

[Adios]

We became prominent because of sports? Not because "HuskyHawk" attended?

So "HuskyHawks" prestigious degree was built on the backs of academic stalwarts like Chris Smith, Nadav Henefeld, Dan Cyrulic, Cliff Robinson, and Donyell Marshall and not our association with St Johns?

I guess since the Big East became prominent because of Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Patrick Ewing and Pearl Washington, HuskyHawk also owes some of his academic presitge to those guys.

He's the boss. Where you been?

 

[Pudge]

Id like to throw in that, like Fishy, I too know folks high up on the Syracuse food chain. Theyre thrilled, donations are way up, and it's because of the move, NOT the number one ranked team.

Carl is so deep in denial, it's sad. He seems like a genuinely nice chap. Hes just wrong on this. Completely.

Big FFFFing Deal. This is the Same Behavior that we saw from the Big BC clan back in 2003. It has gotten them more money; but, they are in a cultural wasteland. They will never get a Stadium once that old mausoleum becomes functionally & physically obsolescent. Swirling down the toilet ... and they have been begging to get away from us for a full 8 years. Congrats. I'm not surprised that they are celebrating & raising more money.

But I live in upstate NY. Their market sucks. BC sucks in the greater Boston market. UConn has potential & we have not had a leader since Lew left that really has driven this ship. The AD hire is most important. Why? Cause I believe this College Sports landscape has not come to any level of stabilization. Fact is ... College Football is really about the SEC with some regional interest in Texas, B1G and Pac 10whatever. The ACC? Not keeping up. Will we get $5m or $14m in the next contract? You & I both know that Fishy gets his information from SU biased media experts. Trade journals full of SU Newhouse people. I believe this new BE sucks ... but I think we need to do something in life than bitch for the next 5 years.

 

[zls44]

Members of the Syracuse BOT, media journals, whats the difference- oh, wait, it's actually huge.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Not a chance in hell that any team leave even the depleted ACC for the Big whatever-you-want-to-call-it. None. Zero.

You are probably right, but it is not impossible. This all comes down to money. How much do you think networks will offer an ACC without FSU and Clemson when their current deal expires?

 

[Drumguy]

Drumguy, think academics. Boise, Houston - good football, Memphis - good bball, but all are below the academic standard of Pitt / Cuse and below what would be our peer institutions academically in the ACC. It may not factor into what the fans of the athletic department wants, but it factors into what Herbst and the trustees are thinking.

I have given that thought and if academics meant anything we'd actually be joining our brethren in the big10, where most of the schools are state universities with big research programs. For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost. And all the schools on probation compared to the BE well, the ACC is not as perfect a fit as we like to think.

 

[MattMang23]

For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost.

Haha, Miami? I think you need to do your homework.

 

[Fishy]

Big FFFFing Deal. This is the Same Behavior that we saw from the Big BC clan back in 2003. It has gotten them more money; but, they are in a cultural wasteland.

I don't know any Syracuse media types, so spare me.

We just invited Memphis, UCF, San Diego State, Houston and Boise.

We aspire to cultural wasteland and this conference will be a serious drag on the athletic program. Blow smoke up your own ass if you'd like, but this is a bad, bad spot for us.

We're a gold coin that was just flicked into a pile of mid-major s***.

I don't think Boston College has the chops to succeed in the ACC just as they didn't have them to win in the Big East as it was. Syracuse and Pitt might or they might not - one thing is for certain, the sledding will be easier for them than it will be for us.

 

[junglehusky]

I have given that thought and if academics meant anything we'd actually be joining our brethren in the big10, where most of the schools are state universities with big research programs. For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost. And all the schools on probation compared to the BE well, the ACC is not as perfect a fit as we like to think.

If there's a snowball's chance in hell that we could get into the Big 10 I'd be delighted and would hope that Herbst would pursue it with zeal. But their intentions are harder to read than a bad translation of Dostoyevsky, so I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure back in the fall phone lines were being worked hard to Indy, both from Storrs and from Piscataway. I guess travel would be slightly better going to the carolinas versus, say, Wisconsin/Minnesota (central time zone), but the other factor is we probably have more UConn alumni and prospective students in the Atlantic coast than from the upper midwest. Either conference has plenty of what UConn would consider peer institutions.

And as much as people like to disparage Miami and FSU academically they are light years ahead of Boise/Memphis (or for that matter, PC, SHU). FSU actually is a high tier research university, surprisingly enough. Miami's research is bigger than what you might expect from a private university. The UNC / Miami football programs on probation are primarily a sports issue, I'm sure Shalalalala is worried about it affecting undergrad admissions but research mission, not so much.

 

[MattMang23]

People, you need to stop with the "Miami is a bad school" thing. They're the 38th ranked school in the country according to US News & World Report.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-miami-1536

 

[HartbeatHusky]

You are probably right, but it is not impossible. This all comes down to money. How much do you think networks will offer an ACC without FSU and Clemson when their current deal expires?

Their current deal will never expire. That is the real ESPN plan. They will be going to 2026 as is once Pitt and Cuse join. If they invite us and Rutgers I'm guessing they won't hit the open market again until 2030.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Big FFFFing Deal. This is the Same Behavior that we saw from the Big BC clan back in 2003. It has gotten them more money; but, they are in a cultural wasteland. They will never get a Stadium once that old mausoleum becomes functionally & physically obsolescent. Swirling down the toilet ... and they have been begging to get away from us for a full 8 years. Congrats. I'm not surprised that they are celebrating & raising more money.

But I live in upstate NY. Their market sucks. BC sucks in the greater Boston market. UConn has potential & we have not had a leader since Lew left that really has driven this ship. The AD hire is most important. Why? Cause I believe this College Sports landscape has not come to any level of stabilization. Fact is ... College Football is really about the SEC with some regional interest in Texas, B1G and Pac 10whatever. The ACC? Not keeping up. Will we get $5m or $14m in the next contract? You & I both know that Fishy gets his information from SU biased media experts. Trade journals full of SU Newhouse people. I believe this new BE sucks ... but I think we need to do something in life than bitch for the next 5 years.

The Upstate market may "suck" - and the economy has for the longest time - but somehow Syracuse still draws more fans than every other team in America not named "Kentucky" at home, and not named "Duke" on the road. We are hardly BC. If you live in Upstate, you know that.

 

[Fishy]

The Upstate market may "suck" - and the economy has for the longest time - but somehow Syracuse still draws more fans than every other team in America not named "Kentucky" at home, and not named "Duke" on the road. We are hardly BC. If you live in Upstate, you know that.

Not to get in the middle of that pissing contest, (I prefer the "we own you, nyah, nyah" contests - more fun!), but I don't think the market hurts Syracuse as much as does BC. Boston College is in a great market that literally does not give a duck* that they exist - better to be in a worse market that is actually inclined to your product. (Next person to tell me how great the Orlando market is gets punched in the throat - every TV there is tuned to UF games.)

Let's all be honest here - we're all near the tail end of the expansion games and we were all standing along the same wall a couple of months back while the other conferences beer goggled at us. There are no SEC or Big Ten level programs here.

SU, Pitt and WV got out first - great for them. I hope we follow at some point because this monkey pile of s*** schools is giving me hives.