Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn

[B1GALUM]

I'm not entirely convinced of the Kansas and Missouri part of that. I think the old OSU Pres. mentioned that they may have messed up on a school (sounded like he was talking about Mizzou). It's likelier that Delany was waiting for the right time to blow up the ACC and grab what he really wanted. He may still be waiting for that. But I think Kansas and UConn are still good pieces to have. The ACC is trumpeting to everyone that they are the best bball conference ever, and Kansas and UConn are two good chips to counter that argument should it ever be needed.

Upstater. Here is the quote from Gee:
“I think the Big Ten needs to be predatory and positive rather than waiting for other people to take away from them. Very candidly, I think we made a mistake. Because thought about adding Missouri and Kansas at the time. There was not a great deal of enthusiasm about that. I think we should have done that at the time. So we would have had Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas and then moved into that other area. I think, by the way, that that can still happen.”

 

[ConnHuskBask]

We have 1M more TV households than Syracuse, approximately 3.5X to the Syracuse amount and we are in the NYC DMA. I repeat we are in the NYC DMA.

It's the total population of the state and the extent it can get basic carriage in NYC.

 

[Stinger92860]

It's the total population of the state and the extent it can get basic carriage in NYC.

I am not sure that the DMA includes all eastern portions of the state, not that it matters. The Hartford-New Haven DMA does not include Fairfield County.

 

[Fishy]

I am not sure that the DMA includes all eastern portions of the state, not that it matters. The Hartford-New Haven DMA does not include Fairfield County.

The New York City DMA, which is bizarrely conceded to Rutgers by the media, includes about a million people who reside inside of the Connecticut state borders.

It also includes Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess and Suffolk Counties that, if anything, would be more predisposed to Connecticut than RU.

 

[Stinger92860]

The DMA discussion is important for us and most folks outside of CT do not understand. There are approximately 1M households in the Hartford-New Haven DMA which is currently ranked 30th in the USA based on size. It is ahead of Kansas City, Columbus, etc. Fairfield County has approximately 325K households in the NYC DMA, giving CT at least 1.325M TV households. The 1.325M number would place us 21st in the USA. This would place us ahead of St Louis and just behind Stockton CA.

If you are the B1G and you need tv's in the east there are only 20 DMA's larger than us, many of which are already covered.

Look for yourself => http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_TVHH_DMA_Ranks_2013-2014.pdf

The cities not covered and ahead of us appear to be Philly, Orlando and Tampa. Interestingly all AAC markets at the moment.

 

[Ldandy]

Upstater. Here is the quote from Gee:
“I think the Big Ten needs to be predatory and positive rather than waiting for other people to take away from them. Very candidly, I think we made a mistake. Because thought about adding Missouri and Kansas at the time. There was not a great deal of enthusiasm about that. I think we should have done that at the time. So we would have had Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas and then moved into that other area. I think, by the way, that that can still happen.”

1)Gee is a blowhard known for constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

2)Gee's statement has a lot of I think and not we thought or the conference thought in it. All we know from his statement is that outside of his hindsight there was little enthusiasm in conference circles for adding either school.

3)I have no issue personally w/adding Mizzou, Kansas or both. They both fit the academic profile and bring value athletically. That said either one could have been had Post Big 8 Conference and again during the Big 12 upheaval of 2010-11. Mizzou was publicly campaigning for an offer IIRC. Both are currently in separate conferences not named The B1G.

I suppose if the conference ever goes to 20 or more teams they could come into play, but why ignore them forever only to consider them when it becomes a markedly more difficult proposition?

 

[upstater]

It's the total population of the state and the extent it can get basic carriage in NYC.

??? New York is a big state with multiple DMAs. Not just one. The total population of the state is relevant how? Rutgers at least has a claim to New Jersey as the big state school.

 

[upstater]

1)Gee is a blowhard known for constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

2)Gee's statement has a lot of I think and not we thought or the conference thought in it. All we know from his statement is that outside of his hindsight there was little enthusiasm in conference circles for adding either school.

3)I have no issue personally w/adding Mizzou, Kansas or both. They both fit the academic profile and bring value athletically. That said either one could have been had Post Big 8 Conference and again during the Big 12 upheaval of 2010-11. Mizzou was publicly campaigning for an offer IIRC. Both are currently in separate conferences not named The B1G.

I suppose if the conference ever goes to 20 or more teams they could come into play, but why ignore them forever only to consider them when it becomes a markedly more difficult proposition?

Good questions. Very good. I think both would have been solid adds. But did Delany hold out for Virginia and North Carolina? That would have brought the B1G to 16.

 

[Ldandy]

Pitt would never get an invite to the B1G, think of Pitt as UCONN and Penn State as BC. They hate each other. No love lost between Pitt and OSU either.

Love lost really has little to do with it. If PSU and Pitt were actually great partners, and The Lions openly campaigned for their inclusion, there is almost zero chance Pitt would get in. Their redundant TV market in no way adds to the conference pie. No legacy B1G School is going to take less money so that they can play Pitt.

 

[B1GALUM]

1)Gee is a blowhard known for constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

2)Gee's statement has a lot of I think and not we thought or the conference thought in it. All we know from his statement is that outside of his hindsight there was little enthusiasm in conference circles for adding either school.

3)I have no issue personally w/adding Mizzou, Kansas or both. They both fit the academic profile and bring value athletically. That said either one could have been had Post Big 8 Conference and again during the Big 12 upheaval of 2010-11. Mizzou was publicly campaigning for an offer IIRC. Both are currently in separate conferences not named The B1G.

I suppose if the conference ever goes to 20 or more teams they could come into play, but why ignore them forever only to consider them when it becomes a markedly more difficult proposition?

1) Agree but his lack of a filter did provide at least some insight into behind the scenes discussions.

2) Agree that Mizzou and Kansas were more of interest to him personally rather than the B1G leadership as a whole otherwise both would have been invited.

3) The future of B1G expansion lies to the East. The only B1G expansion to the West would have to involve Texas. Do you agree with this perspective?

 

[B1GEast]

If the 10 grabs Uconn, they get the rest of New England as well as well as a chunk of metro NYC, that's a lot of eye balls. Our only strategy right now is to just keep winning.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

??? New York is a big state with multiple DMAs. Not just one. The total population of the state is relevant how? Rutgers at least has a claim to New Jersey as the big state school.

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

 

[JayRU09]

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

That's the goal to get BTN onto basic cable, but Syracuse isn't in the NYC metro which is the only market in NY the B1G cares about. Syracuse won't bring you that and someone else said it before.....if people were afraid of UCONN post Calhoun, they're even more terrified of Syracuse post-Boeheim. Once he's gone that's it for Cuse. No recruiting base, snowiest city in America, small private school, an island in its own conference already.

The ACC's moves have all been for quick gains, and Pittsburgh for some reason. But Cuse and the Ville were short term moves. ACC/ESPN will keep pointing to the Duke vs. Cuse rating during the regular season, but let's see how it is five years from now. Let's see how it is in the post Boeheim era. Don't have much hope for them.

 

[upstater]

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

There is no such agreement. If this were true, BTN would be on in Easstern PA., where it earns pennies on the dollar.

Also, Syracuse doesn't carry the NYC DMA in the same way UConn does. Syracuse may have just as much interest in NYC as UConn does, but because the NYC DMA extends into Conn., it doesn't have the same oomph. Remember when SNY bumped a Syracuse men's BE game for the UConn women? A lot of that has to do with the fact that sliver of Conn. being inside NY, and the intensity for UConn in that sliver is greater than the intensity for Syracuse or UConn inside the 5 boroughs.

 

[Gfunk]

Missouri is the only other #16 candidate available. The SEC does not have a GOR.

I do think the Big 10 would add just 1 if it wanted to (it sat at 11 for years), but if it wanted 2, it would grab Missouri and UConn. St. Louis is an attractive market.

I wish the SEC would start talking about a GOR just to shake the tree a little and see whether the Big 10 would make a move. The SEC would replace Missouri with Cincinnati and not bat an eyelash. I think the northern SEC schools would even like to be in Ohio, because they are confident they can kick the Big 10's butt in their own backyard when it comes to recruiting.

All that matters is the dollars though, and I don't see how UConn or Missouri generate an extra $45MM for the Big 10.

Not really.

The SEC has already gotten plenty of Ohio talent in basketball and football over the years, esp the former. Ohio basketball players regularly head off to Lville, Ky, other BIG schools. But in football, top shelf Ohio kids love the Bucks, that won't change. Interestingly, OSU has been developing a national footprint in basketball under Matta, football, they've been able to recruit nationally for decades & long ago developed a southern strategy, esp during segregation.

But, it would be great to see the SEC grab Cincy - actually fascinating. I thought Mizzou to the SEC was quite interesting and actually guessed they'd inevitably succeed in football - they offer an interesting change to the Southeast kids - these kids can get a taste of different regional culture, but play a familiar SEC schedule.

On the other hand, Ky has plenty of Midwestern states on its border: In, Oh, Ill, Mo - who's to say they can't go BIG? Ky basketball has long depended on Chicago Land talent, esp in the modern era.

Kentuckiana & the Ohio River Valley (ORV), & I'm kindly limiting this list to IU, Cincy, OSU, Lville, Ky, & Xavier, my opinion, has been the most successful basketball region for a long time, but the lack of a more singular conference has diminished its value when compared to say Tobacco Road and even all of Va. The ORV has superior numbers to any other region in terms of m. college basketball: NCAA titles, Final Fours, NCAA wins, etc. The above schools, which is not all of the great basketball programs in the ORV, has 19 NCAA titles, and around 50 Final Fours. But again, that list draws from 5 different conferences: BIG, AAC, ACC, SEC and Big East. Find another region, similar radius, it won't compare.

 

[Stinger92860]

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

Please explain how Cuse gives the same bump? We have TV sets in the NYC DMA, they do not. We are 3.5 times the size of the Cuse DMA. They have 0 household in NYC DMA. We clearly give more in NYC, no question.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't really want to argue the merits of Cincinnati. That was kind of a throwaway comment I made, but Cincinnati has a big enrollment with a very well respected grad school, a lot of alumni, and a respectable endowment. More importantly to the SEC though, they have shown they can get it done on the court and the field. The SEC is unlike the other majors in that winning really, really matters, moreso than markets.

The Pac 12 doesn't care that Colorado's football program was euthanized years ago, or that Utah has grossly disappointed in football. The Big 10 was obviously not going for an athletic splash when it invited Rutgers and Maryland. On the other hand, the SEC would never add a program that it didn't think was nationally competitive.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Cinny is actually Louisville Natural rival and a possible WV partner ,
They get in the ACC or Big 12 before us.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

What part of the B1G seeking state flagship U.'s isn't sinking in?

 

[huskyrob1]

I generally agree, but Mizzou is a very conflicted place. St. Louis is absolutely Big Ten country, borders Illinois and has tons of Chicago connections. In fact Mizzou itself gets tons of kids from Chicago. KC is Big XII (Big 8 before that) central, and while the Big 10 has some appeal, not as much. Springfield and the Ozarks are probably a good fit for the SEC. So I'm not sure how quickly they would leave, if at all. If Mizzou and Kansas were going to the B1G, it would be pretty fast. Mizzou and UConn? Missouri can fit anywhere. It borders two B1G states, two SEC states and three Big XII states (with Iowa counting).

People don't often think of it this way, but St. Louis is about the same distance from each of Chicago, Indianapolis, Memphis and Nashville. Springfield is closer to Fayetteville, Arkansas than to KC or St. Louis. U Arkansas is quite popular in southern MO (my 2nd cousin from Carthage MO decided to go there).

St Louis is not B1G country, at least the sports anchors at the local TV stations don't think so. When they cover college football it's all about SEC and the Big 12. Yes, they border Illinois but they could care less about Illinois football, their reporting is all about the Razorbacks, the Missouri Tigers, the Sooners, and even the Longhorns.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yeah agreed on St Lou, husky rob, one doesn't need to go too far south of st louis to get into backwoods redneck country...... I remember one of my several trips south on rte 44 south through Rolla and Springfield, that stretch was the only geography where I couldn't tune in a single rock station.... it was all country music.... and not a good big 10 fit.....

On another thought...... it is surprising how many big 10 schools i saw tonight on USNWR academic list were ranked well below UConn...... schools I had thought were really good...... U Iowa, and U Nebraska come to mind..... but there were others there as well.... of course UMD and the College of New Jersey. We would be a good addition

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Please explain how Cuse gives the same bump? We have TV sets in the NYC DMA, they do not. We are 3.5 times the size of the Cuse DMA. They have 0 household in NYC DMA. We clearly give more in NYC, no question.

What part of the B1G seeking state flagship U.'s isn't sinking in?

Lol, there's no need to get so butt hurt by claiming Syracuse would be just as suitable of a member as UConn.

The only part that needs to sink in is the B1G is interested in who can make them the most money. Hell if a community college got BTN at their desired rate in NYC, they'd take them.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Lol, there's no need to get so butt hurt by claiming Syracuse would be just as suitable of a member as UConn.

The only part that needs to sink in is the B1G is interested in who can make them the most money. Hell if a community college got BTN at their desired rate in NYC, they'd take them.

Keep your mind off my butt thank you very much.

 

[HuskyHawk]

St Louis is not B1G country, at least the sports anchors at the local TV stations don't think so. When they cover college football it's all about SEC and the Big 12. Yes, they border Illinois but they could care less about Illinois football, their reporting is all about the Razorbacks, the Missouri Tigers, the Sooners, and even the Longhorns.

Sure, now it is because Mizzou is in the SEC. A few years ago the SEC was a distant thought. There are a lot of Illini alumni in St. Louis. Prior to the move it was all Big XII and secondarily B1G, with maybe a little SEC.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yeah agreed on St Lou, husky rob, one doesn't need to go too far south of st louis to get into backwoods redneck country. I remember one of my several trips south on rte 44 south through Rolla and Springfield, that stretch was the only geography where I couldn't tune in a single rock station.... it was all country music.... and not a good big 10 fit.....

On another thought. it is surprising how many big 10 schools i saw tonight on USNWR academic list were ranked well below UConn. schools I had thought were really good. U Iowa, and U Nebraska come to mind..... but there were others there as well.... of course UMD and the College of New Jersey. We would be a good addition

Absolutely...that's why it is split. My law school roommate was from Boliver outside Springfield. He was rich, but a self described redneck hillbilly from the Ozarks.